TCMA Footwork

[YouKnowWho]

I like to start a TCMA footwork discussion. I have always believed that if you can move like ghost, nobody will be able to fight you. In combat, even you haven't decided how to attack your opponent, you should just keep moving. When you move and move, you will find a chance to attack. To keep moving non-stop is very important in TCMA training.

One of my favor foootwork is in the San Lou Pao Chuan form. You may notice that the footwork that used in this form almost cover the entire basket ball court. There are some good footwork there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yXnPM3TnJM

I also like the XingYi 12 animals footwork.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfAi3OdD4oQ&feature=related

Could you share some of your favor footwork here?

[Punch.HeadButt]

I like Xing Yi's footwork as well. I see a lot of potential in Ba Gua's footwork, but I'm just not good enough to really utilize it yet. :o Beyond hooking/sweeping my opponent's lead leg, anyway, but that's pretty universal.

[Dragonzbane76]

I have always believed that if you can move like ghost, nobody will be able to fight you.

Light on the feet? Is that what you are saying. didn't watch the vids sorry, at home and have a crappy connection.

[-N-]

I like the footwork, but not how it looks in the form.

Here it is in usage. Running attack, jumping, flying knee. And control the opponent's footwork by stepping in close and tight behind their lead leg.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-5.gif

Here you see the running attack, and also the idea that the step and the kick are the same. And when green shirt retreats, you see single leg stance as a leg check against the kick.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-4.gif

[Shaolin]

My favorite footwork is all of them. Every art form can be classified into 7 general footwork patterns. H,I,X,Z,Y,O and C

General Examples:

H = Karate

I = Tae Kwon Do

X = Judo

Z = Kalis/Eskrima

Y = Capoeria

O = Ba qua

C = Boxing

But this is just one concept, after this is understood then there's the geometry of the stances.

[hskwarrior]

Its sort of similar to Hung Sing Choy lee Fut's "Snake Stepping" footwork.

[-N-]

Here's the running footwork with 2 handed grab and kick.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-6.gif

[-N-]

We like the front/back/front motion too. Praying Mantis calls it swallow/spit(back).

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-7.gif

Similar to this idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8_kPRkf5eY&feature=related

[-N-]

In combat, even you haven't decided how to attack your opponent, you should just keep moving. When you move and move, you will find a chance to attack. To keep moving non-stop is very important in TCMA training.

Though we caution the student about moving without reason or knowing why they are moving.

They can be still, they can stalk, they can explode, or they can escape.

[-N-]

Its sort of similar to Hung Sing Choy lee Fut's "Snake Stepping" footwork.

Any clips?

[hskwarrior]

yeah on my youtube site.....but its a little different, more aligned with keeping your feet on the floor....skimming it instead of lifting up off the ground in steps

[Fa Xing]

I've always been a fan of Ba Gua footwork, especially via Park Bok Nam. JKD footwork is simple but structurally sound.

[YouKnowWho]

Light on the feet? Is that what you are saying. didn't watch the vids sorry, at home and have a crappy connection.
Not sure "light" is the right word.

the XingYi master 薛颠(Xue Dian) once gave a demonstration. He stood on oneside of the bench. Suddently he was on the other side of that bench. Nobody could even tell how did he move under that bench so fast. Some people in the audience had intention to challenge him (Xue had announced that he would accept all public challenge). They all changed their mind after that demo. How can you fight someone who can move as fast as ghost?

[Fa Xing]

Not sure "light" is the right word.

the XingYi master 薛颠(Xue Dian) once gave a demonstration. He stood on oneside of the bench. Suddently he was on the other side of that bench. Nobody could even tell how did he move under that bench so fast. Some people in the audience had intention to challenge him (Xue had announced that he would accpet all public challenge). They all changed their mind after that demo. How can you fight someone who can move as fast as ghost?

It kind of reminds me of the description of how Dragon (Longxing) footwork was supposed to be: as if you were disappearing and re-appearing.

[YouKnowWho]

Though we caution the student about moving without reason or knowing why they are moving.

They can be still, they can stalk, they can explode, or they can escape.
This is the XingYi principle.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2721/keepmoving1if.jpg

When your body is moving, your brain will be sharp. Old saying said, "It' better to move than to stop." It's like the snake moves on the ground. When you fight, you shouldn't think. Your footwork cannot stop. Even you don't know what to do, you still keep moving. During your moving, you will find a chance to attack.

[Gru Bianca]

I like the footwork, but not how it looks in the form.

Here it is in usage. Running attack, jumping, flying knee. And control the opponent's footwork by stepping in close and tight behind their lead leg.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-5.gif

Here you see the running attack, and also the idea that the step and the kick are the same. And when green shirt retreats, you see single leg stance as a leg check against the kick.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-4.gif

Fantastic Kids... I like the way they move, so confident and well coordinated.

[nubianmantis]

Here's the running footwork with 2 handed grab and kick.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-6.gif

Greetings Family, Feast your Eye's on a Great Master Mantis Man; Brendan Lai. One of the Few out of Hong-Kong. Be Well. NM. PS. THx N.

[nubianmantis]

We like the front/back/front motion too. Praying Mantis calls it swallow/spit(back).

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-7.gif

Similar to this idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8_kPRkf5eY&feature=related

Sometime ago,Master Brendan Lai sayed that Once your Horse's are mastered and Hands are played well; you as a mantis man must be on the move at all times to end the fight. Be Well. NM. Thx N.

[-N-]

Fantastic Kids... I like the way they move, so confident and well coordinated.

I was lucky to be able to brainwash them early.

Cracks me up to watch them. Reminds me of puppies playfighting.

[-N-]

Here's some typical Mantis footwork.

http://gifsoup.com/download.php?id=3196615&d=animatedgifs6&n=kf12&s=a

You can see two full retreats, right and left side. The third step is a left side shiftback which allows a break in timing and sets you up for a reversal into counterattack on the half beat.

Mantis does that timing a lot. You'll see the concept of decreasing distance and timing on the retreat leading into an explosive reversal a lot in 2 person weapon forms.

On the attacking side in this clip, you see the low kick used as a forward advance. Followed by a "din bo" step. This is a type of momentum breaking footwork which gives you a half beat advantage on the forward attack. He follows with a second "din bo" to launch into the two handed grab knee attack. His right hand is in the wrong position though.

[Yum Cha]

Fantastic Kids... I like the way they move, so confident and well coordinated.

Yea, kudos.

[Yum Cha]

Here's some typical Mantis footwork.

http://gifsoup.com/download.php?id=3196615&d=animatedgifs6&n=kf12&s=a

You can see two full retreats, right and left side. The third step is a left side shiftback which allows a break in timing and sets you up for a reversal into counterattack on the half beat.

Mantis does that timing a lot. You'll see the concept of decreasing distance and timing on the retreat leading into an explosive reversal a lot in 2 person weapon forms.

On the attacking side in this clip, you see the low kick used as a forward advance. Followed by a "din bo" step. This is a type of momentum breaking footwork which gives you a half beat advantage on the forward attack. He follows with a second "din bo" to launch into the two handed grab knee attack. His right hand is in the wrong position though.

very familiar footwork.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kJ8unUIlgM

[YouKnowWho]

Now we have seen many different styles, let's get into the detail of the footwork here.

One footwork from the San Lou Pao Chuan is the "running punch". You start with

- step in back leg block punch.
- move your back leg to touch your front leg.
- step in your front leg.
- step in back leg and punch again.

Please notice that after the 1st punch, you step in 3 steps to land your 2nd punch (step, punch, step, step, step, punch). That "running punch' can cover a lot of distance. It's used to hit your opponent when he retreats.

Could others take out your favor footwork from your form and describe a bit more detail here?

All MA styles discussion are welcomed here.

[jdhowland]

Here's one from Hap Ga that I like:

Retreat to single leg to foil attack and immediately kick with raised leg.

Before opponent can retreat partly retract the kicking leg then stamp downward onto foot or shin.

As opponent tries to retreat skip forward on the foot that has just completed the stomp and attack with hand on the same side.

Immediately step forward with the other foot continuing the attack.



The skipping footwork gains you six to ten inches of reach and is quick enough to allow you to interrupt your opponents retreat.

[YouKnowWho]

Most XingYi guys like to walk 5 miles in the morning daily. They would walk with arms behind the back. This way they can move their spine. They also walk with "Chuan Yi". If we remove Yi from XingYi Chuan, we will have Xing Chuan. The word "Xing" in Chinese is "walk". IMO, the whole XingYi syetem builds on top of fast footwork. The "Tui Gong - legs ability" came from both ZZ and walking.

If you have fast footwok, no matter how fast that your opponent may retreat, you will still be able to hit him.

Here is a good XingYi footwork clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukJ2jkYfFFA

The longfist GM Han Chin-Tang won the 6th place in the 1st Chinese National tournament. After he lose his fight, he told his friend that his opponent could move so fast like a ghost that he couldn't even see him coming toward him.

The interest question is, "Should we all treat "fast foot work" as the highest priority in our training?"

[EarthDragon]

as our total system is named after footwaork I fel 8 step is supior in this instance. I woud like to share our footwork with you any question just ask.
The long steps
Ba bu
Cuan bu
Diei bu
Ru huan bu
Nou bu
Tuan bu
Ta bu
Xing bu
Tuo bu

The short
Huang bu
San jioa bu
Feng xing bu
Mei bu
Hua bu
Lin cun bu
Qi bu
Bagua bu
Jia bu

[YouKnowWho]

Since I have to walk with my dog daily, Instead of just walking like an average person does, I like to use my 3 steps footwork and 5 steps footwork.

[-N-]

as our total system is named after footwaork I fel 8 step is supior in this instance. I woud like to share our footwork with you any question just ask.

Well, how about some explanation on one of those footwork methods from the 8 Step perspective?

LIke what's considered correct/incorrect... effective/ineffective... typical mistakes... ideal execution... etc.

[Fighting Eagle]

In Ying Jow, we practice "Walking" which is a set of movements that teaches one to move around the opponent while learning how to move the body as one. The very basic of the technique is footwork, then comes the handwork, then comes the rooting, then comes the applications as "2 man walking" is practiced together utilizing techniques within the system paired with correct timing.

Another technique that has worked wonders for me is what my Sifu (RIP Joel Rodriguez) dubbed "Ying Jow Running" This is a sweep training drill that is literally ran across the floor back and forth paired with clawing, rooting while switching feet attacking both legs, first the front then the back. I truly feel with this alone, one has a tremendous advantage over the average punch kick kind-of fighter. I haven't run across many kickboxers that have much root, much less know what it is.

TCMA Footwork would be a real improvement today in combat sports. Stealing the opponents root, creating/closing distance and circling are something that I feel must be trained vigorously in TCMA, otherwise you're missing half the point. Before Ying Jow I was just a basic kick/punch, stick and move kinda guy, it only took me about 100 falls on my ass to realize I needed to add this stuff into my training... the difference, night and day.

Here's a good display of TCMA footwork applications (Ying Jow Pai):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Jh6Ygh2n8

[YouKnowWho]

Let's see what kind of footword that we need. For linear footwork, we need:

1. front leg 1/2 step - start from 3-7 stance, move your front leg into 4-6 stance. The purpose is to hide your intention and adjust your front foot at the right spot.
2. back leg 1/2 step - start from bow-arrow stance, move your back leg into 3-7 stance. The purpose is to regain your better rooting.
3. back leg 1 step - start from 4-6 stance, move your back leg behind your front leg, and end with side empty stance. The purpose is to land your rooting foot at the right spot.
4. front leg 1 step - start from side empty stance (back leg touch front leg), move front leg out into 4-6 stance. The purpose is to use your front leg to attack.
5. back leg 2 steps - start from 4-6 stance, move your back leg to pass your front lag and end with bow-arrow stance. the purpose is to gain maximum distance.

There are other footworks such as long distance jump forward, and long distance jump backward. If we can link those footword into a pattern so we can train left and right daily, it won't take long to have good footwork.

We will need a different set for circular footwork.

[EarthDragon]

-N-
so hard to explain compex foot work with words instead of showing. But if you have somethign specific I could give examples. if you know chinses they are various steeping patterns when attacking. they give you ditansce without movemtns shuffling without weight shift, close the opponent adn gain distance form your opponent, with ease

[-N-]

No problem. Just thought it would be more interesting for people if we had some examples at that level of detail. Like when we're teaching our students.

I'll post one on seven star step when I get a chance. Something different from the usual hook/kick stance discussion. Getting some pics together.

[-N-]

-N-
so hard to explain compex foot work with words instead of showing. But if you have somethign specific I could give examples.

Ok, how about "What corrections do you find that students need when using ru huan bu in sparring?"

[EarthDragon]

Ru Huan Bu — Encircling Step:

If the enemy sees me use three-climbing hands he will defend himself and try to get away, I now use encircling step and two hands push into mountain pose to throw him.

great question, for this the biggest part when learning is to advance forward enough to not allow your opponet to retreat back far enough so that you can still get the push then throw. I find you must cover some ground in the first couple steps of you will not have enough close power to push if you are just a little bit to far away, you must take thier center to complete the throw, hope this expalins your question

[-N-]

One of the things we point out to the students is that footwork should have recoil. We don't want them to kill their momentum with static postures.

Sometimes you see people do seven star step.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/th_d3822a89.jpg

They just stand there like they learned individual positions in a set. They don't have explosiveness when initiating the footwork. They don't have sinking force to close the motion and generate power. They don't tap into recoil and rebound to make combination footwork. They don't use springy force when connecting with the opponent.

In the first pic, you can see the step into circle entering stance is preceded by a transitional seven star step which has the same timing as kick in the second one.

The step snaps out and sinks to grab the ground so that the rest of the footwork can snap forward and down.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-7.gif

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-6.gif

You can see the same snap sink motion in this pic. Notice how the left foot appears and disappears at the bottom of the pic.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-9.gif

There is a relaxed explosive entry, followed by a momentary sink where the entire structure solidfies for a split second. There is a springy stick and press to pop the guy into the throw. And the pop rebounds forward into bow and arrow stance which also only appears as a split second transitional footwork.

In having the students train footwork for closing the gap, we make them launch off the back leg while kicking out the forward foot into a very long seven star step. We have the student sink their center of gravity while their front heel lands so they can use the ground connection to accelerate the back leg forward. We make them recoil the sinking force into followup footwork so that they don't kill their momentum and stand there unable to move.

[nubianmantis]

One of the things we point out to the students is that footwork should have recoil. We don't want them to kill their momentum with static postures.

Sometimes you see people do seven star step.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/th_d3822a89.jpg

They just stand there like they learned individual positions in a set. They don't have explosiveness when initiating the footwork. They don't have sinking force to close the motion and generate power. They don't tap into recoil and rebound to make combination footwork. They don't use springy force when connecting with the opponent.

In the first pic, you can see the step into circle entering stance is preceded by a transitional seven star step which has the same timing as kick in the second one.

The step snaps out and sinks to grab the ground so that the rest of the footwork can snap forward and down.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-7.gif

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-6.gif

You can see the same snap sink motion in this pic. Notice how the left foot appears and disappears at the bottom of the pic.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/download-9.gif

There is a relaxed explosive entry, followed by a momentary sink where the entire structure solidfies for a split second. There is a springy stick and press to pop the guy into the throw. And the pop rebounds forward into bow and arrow stance which also only appears as a split second transitional footwork.

In having the students train footwork for closing the gap, we make them launch off the back leg while kicking out the forward foot into a very long seven star step. We have the student sink their center of gravity while their front heel lands so they can use the ground connection to accelerate the back leg forward. We make them recoil the sinking force into followup footwork so that they don't kill their momentum and stand there unable to move.

It's great to know that Grandmaster Wong Hon Fon was a handsOn Teacher,and Sifu Brendan Lai became a Great Mantis Technician. Wonderful Stuff. Thx. N. NM.

[EarthDragon]

-N-,
this technique/throw you call (Go) correct?

[-N-]

It's great to know that Grandmaster Wong Hon Fon was a handsOn Teacher,and Sifu Brendan Lai became a Great Mantis Technician. Wonderful Stuff. Thx. N. NM.

You're welcome.


-N-,
this technique/throw you call (Go) correct?

It's the one in the last pic. The waist chop, or yiu jom.

One thing about waist chop is many times people don't go deep enough. They just connect with the ankle or lower leg. They also don't use energy in the connection. They just put the leg there as an obstacle.

[EarthDragon]

interesting we have this in 8 step except its from the shuai jiao (go)
tieing the arms as you sweep not chopping the waist,

[-N-]

interesting we have this in 8 step except its from the shuai jiao (go)
tieing the arms as you sweep not chopping the waist,

For us, we don't actually sweep with the leg motion.

We slip in, brushing lightly as possible. Then we use a short springy force against his locked up structure to break him loose and throw.

Some people just go in and manhandle the person and yank him off balance to trip, but that's not our ideal approach.

[EarthDragon]

gottcha suble differences, but same end result, and yes i agree a good throw requires minimal effort.