View Full Version : A big dilemma

06-01-2001, 09:29 AM
Okay, here's the situation:
My friend and san da guru/coach/mentor has 3 weeks to get ready before going back to Taiwan for another 3 weeks, and then finally a competition in Beijing July 21.
I'm about the only work out partner he's got, cuz I'm the only one who shows up regularly to work out.
We've been doing a lot of free weight training to up his strength and maybe increase some lean body mass.
Unfortunately, now he has to lose 30 pounds for the competition.
The plan so far is no more beer, more intense aerobic work outs, a sweat suit, some diet supplements (MD6 or Xenadrine), and some intense dieting (I told him to stick to salad and water, with the occasional protein shake & protein bar to maintain some of the muscle mass).
He's really reluctant to try anything new, as he was a professional competitor in the past and knows what he wants to do given the time constraints.

I was wondering if you guys had any more advice. I'm not looking for regurgitation of the earlier post of the other guy who was trying to trim down for a competition- although I know that might be asking a lot.
I'm thinking about getting the guy to try a couple plyometrics exercises (like explosive pushups and frog jumps). I'd like him to do some sled running with a huge tire tied to him- like Roy Jones Jr does- but we don't have a tire and he's reluctant to try.
I just want to know if you guys have any other training (ie working out and san da training) or diet recommendations for him to use that'll show results in 3 weeks so that he's not cramming so bad in Taiwan the final 3 weeks before the comp.

I'd really appreciate any help you could offer, thanx

06-01-2001, 09:29 PM
If your friend was lean going in, 30 lbs. in three weeks is a lot. Definitely give up the beer and his diet must change. Starvation will get you where you want to go, but he won't be winning any fights in that condition. Sauna suits are dangerous and banned for HS athletes in America now (severely dehydrated is no condition to fight and train in). Xenadrine contains Mu-Huang extract, which is banned by the IOC, so find out what (if any) policy exists in this tournaments for drug testing. That crap is bad for you anyhow. Train hard, eat strategically, and don't overdo anything because you have no time to recover if you screw up.

No signficant carb intake after lunch (but as much as you crave prior), no hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated oils, no high fructose corn syrup, minimize sat fat and processed sugars, no calories after 7pm, no training after 10pm, get your sleep, and closely monitor and adjust to any pain (the hallmark of coming injuries) DRINK WATER

"Luminous beings are we."

06-01-2001, 11:20 PM
Listen, tell your friend that if he doesn't want to lose a SIGNIFICANT amount of muscle, during extreme dieting he better be consuming at least 1.5g of protein per POUND of bodyweight.

When your body goes into starvation mode, muscle is used for fuel before fat, so you better have ample protein so the muscle doesn't get burned.

Have him to go the store and buy tons of tuna and salmon in cans. one can is 25g, with almost NO fat and carbs. protein shakes, also, but be careful what you mix them with (it may add carbs or whatever).

I'm not saying eat only protein, eat whatever you want and whatever other diet advice you take into consideration, just make sure that for the next 3 weeks he gets 1.5g protein /lb of bodyweight, per day, to ensure he retains as much muscle as possible.


06-02-2001, 08:07 PM
Yeah, cut off the beer intake. Drink Ensure and water. Save the last few pounds and the day before weigh-in cut back on your water to reduce the weight. Then after weigh-in, chug away. Water weight is the easiest to manipulate. Dont forget your fat burning only begins after your blood sugar is spent (15-20 into the cardio workout).

06-03-2001, 02:39 PM
Sleep with a broad heavy thing on the belly--this will stimulate his abdominals to keep it from pressing in. Gravity will constantly pull it, and abdominal workout for as many hours as he sleeps. Three to five lbs. would work. twenty (up to) might be nice for him since he's trained. No more than twenty. He has to be able to breathe with this on...This method should also increase his metabolism

It has been indicated that the less one eats, the more the body holds on to fats; thinking that the body can't get nutrients right now the body prepares for starvation. Eating less might help him maintain to gain weight.

At any one meal, don't eat more than the size of your stomach. At least twenty minutes between meals.

Practice any kick thirtysix times with each leg (twenty four, or twelve times with each leg is acceptable) do this throiughout the day. (He's competing, so (needle and thread), perhaps he should do twelve of everey kick he has throughout the day-these are not in compettition for fighting quality kicks; these are perfet-ish by the book standard definition kick the 1, 2, 3 and leg back along the same path when returning the foot.)

These should do.

Very some such,perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

06-05-2001, 07:58 AM
Sorry it's taken me so long to respond, I've been busy this week.
I agree with just about everything I've read, it all makes sense and I've attempted to convince him of each of the issues (well, except maybe the ensure- I suggested a body building MRP like Myoplex).
It's a little tough to change this guy's mind....actually impossible. I try to introduce little things to his workout to change it gradually. It's hard though. He insists on overtraining and then we're both pretty much laid up for a couple days while he recouperates. I'm doing what I can and appreciate your advice. I'll let you know how it goes.
This week he's got what seems like bursitis in his knee- he says that his knee feels like it's grinding something inside the joint. We haven't worked out since Sunday. Instead of resting it, he went running today- wind sprints- which kind of confuses me. I think I'm just going to have to sit backseat on this one and just go along for the ride. Thanks again

06-07-2001, 05:39 PM
I hope you realize that what you are asking him to do is harmful to him. Correct me if I'm wrong but you said lose 30lbs in 3 weeks. Unless he is way out of shape right now and completely blubber bound then this is not very healthy. Losing between 1-2lbs per week is considered healthy. Losing 10lbs a week is dangerous if you are already in somewhat decent shape. If I remember correctly you need to drop 3500 calories to lose one pound of fat. So if your goal is to lose 10lbs in one week then it would be 10*3500= not good. What I would suggest is better planning for the next competition and skipping out on this one. Like someone else said above, even if he manages to drop anything close to what you ask he will most likely be sick, and in no condition to fight. Your health is more important than any tournament.

06-07-2001, 07:34 PM
First, let me mention that I had nothing to do to get him into this situation.
I told him a long time ago to eat more healthy, stop going out to eat, and eat more protein.
He fought at the low weight for something like 10 years. I'm not in any position to really speculate why he put on so much weight, why he should lose it, or why it's bad for him. He's gonna do it one way or another- and he can either do it the bad way or the worse way- which is why I asked for help.

BTW- Sorry for the confusing math, but he's got 6 total weeks to get in shape (5 now).

I think that averages out to 5 pounds a week, which is not that bad. He's totally changed his diet and we work out a lot longer now.
His endurance has already doubled. That sounds weird, but he did 5 or 6, 3 minute rounds on the heavy bag the yesterday when he could barely manage 3 a couple weeks back. He only works part time and really can work out every day.

I'm guessing he's been in shape all his life, and the last 6~7 months or so he's just been totally out of it. But his "totally out of shape" is probably better than most people's "in shape".

As much as I complain about his methods; he's shown some crazy-fast results in the past month or so. I only wish my body were somewhere near as responsive.

Losing that much weight may be bad for one's health, especially in a short time; but right now that's not really an option. The whole idea of him competing is about him going up against his old rival in his old weight class.

Thanks for the advice and the cautions. I wanna let you know that I'm not just brushing them off, instead using them as a counterbalance, to make sure he doesn't do anything crazy (well, crazier).
The advice keeps me grounded so I know what to look out for and be weary of.

Anywayz, I'm learning a lot about san da, especially the boxing & kicking; while gaining a lot more contact/sparring experience.

I'll let you guys know how he does in a month & a half. Thanks again.

06-22-2001, 01:30 AM
my 2 cents- I would recommend against eating canned tuna and salmon- canned foods have much less 'life force' than fresh. I'd recommend he eat fresh fish instead.


06-23-2001, 05:16 AM
I'm thinking he must have said 13 pounds, not 30; cuz he said he's only lost between 2 and 5 kilos and doesn't seem that worried about it. I just know that he's within 9 kilos of fighting weight. If he gets within 3 kilos before flying home- I'm sure he can sweat out 3 kilos in the 4 days before the competition.

He hasn't lost too much power- except on days where he REALLY didn't eat enough.
His endurance is improving scarey fast.
He quit doing the sweat suit stuff, after a local guy ripped it sparring.
Oh yah, and today when I saw him he was in a fight with someone from the airline- they never notified him that his credit card wasn't accepted for the ticket (hope it's no biggie).

Anxious to see how he does.

06-28-2001, 07:20 PM
My friend takes off July 2nd. I leave on Saturday. It's kind of depressing knowing I may or may not get to see him again before I move.
We did everything we could; unfortunately, he hasn't really dropped significantly below 69kg; and he needs to be at 60.

The hardest part to swallow, and I know this is selfish, is that I still had a lot to learn from him and my basics aren't even complete either.

Hey, anybody here wanna take an 8 week challenge when I get back into town? I have the work out and I'll post it, we can report in each week with how things go.


07-17-2001, 01:23 AM
My buddy ended up losing the weight but opted to only compete in the July 17 "King of San Da" tournament in Beijing. He had a 5th round TKO because his opponent was unable to continue. I haven't talked to him directly to get any details, only heard the news through his gf. She said he had a hard time talking and breathing- sounding like his ribs and chin had taken some stiff blows.

Thanks again guys for the advice. Whether or not the training we did is what made the difference, we'll never know, I just know he's not the one who gave up.