Teaching Detention Center/Prison Guards

[hunt1]

I have been asked to teach officers working in the titled field.

I have never done this kind of work so I don't know what training will be of most immediate use.

Right now as part of basic training I intend to teach far more practical joint manipulations starting with the fingers and moving up the arm along with sweeps/throws/non shoot take downs than I normally teach to beginning students.

I would welcome suggestions from those that have experience as to what you think should be modified, taught and trained first.

[WC1277]

I don't personally have experience in that field but I have a Kung fu brother with experience in the psych ward which is similar. Locks are definently the main focus but the foundation would be heavy emphasis on moving with structure. Chum Kiu type applications. Having to be able to move someone significantly larger than you requires the body more than straight muscle....

[k gledhill]

I have been asked to teach officers working in the titled field.

I have never done this kind of work so I don't know what training will be of most immediate use.

Right now as part of basic training I intend to teach far more practical joint manipulations starting with the fingers and moving up the arm along with sweeps/throws/non shoot take downs than I normally teach to beginning students.

I would welcome suggestions from those that have experience as to what you think should be modified, taught and trained first.

How long are you teaching them? IE a few days course, months ...ongoing permanent.

[Vajramusti]

I have been asked to teach officers working in the titled field.

I have never done this kind of work so I don't know what training will be of most immediate use.

Right now as part of basic training I intend to teach far more practical joint manipulations starting with the fingers and moving up the arm along with sweeps/throws/non shoot take downs than I normally teach to beginning students.

I would welcome suggestions from those that have experience as to what you think should be modified, taught and trained first.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you sure you want to do this?


Ip Man taught HK police at one time. Different legal envitonmnet in HK at that time.

In my New mexico days I was asked to teach some border patrol people-I gave a couple pf lessons and then quit...I was concerned that the art would be misused without greater supervision of usage protocols than seemed to be available at the time.

[Yoshiyahu]

I don't personally have experience in that field but I have a Kung fu brother with experience in the psych ward which is similar. Locks are definently the main focus but the foundation would be heavy emphasis on moving with structure. Chum Kiu type applications. Having to be able to move someone significantly larger than you requires the body more than straight muscle....

very true...but how long will it take them to grasp that connection?

[trubblman]

I have been asked to teach officers working in the titled field.

I have never done this kind of work so I don't know what training will be of most immediate use.

Right now as part of basic training I intend to teach far more practical joint manipulations starting with the fingers and moving up the arm along with sweeps/throws/non shoot take downs than I normally teach to beginning students.

I would welcome suggestions from those that have experience as to what you think should be modified, taught and trained first.

The question that should be addressed first of all is, is Wing Chun really the solution to the problem. In my opinion no. I base my conclusion on having been a correctional officer in what was considered at the time one of the worst prisons in the state. Wing Chun is not a 90 day wonder martial art. It takes time and patience. I do believe that it is said that Yip Man would spend an inordinate amount of time just teaching SLT. I dont think correctional officers would want to spend months doing SLT. It doesnt lend one to fighting effectively out the box. In addition, most techniques in Wing Chun would be pretty high on the use of force continuum. When I was a CO the key thing was to try to get physical control of violent inmates as quickly as possible - not just beat him/her into submission. So an effective martial art or skill would be high on defense and grappling holds and submissions.

[k gledhill]

The first thing I would teach is distance and angling to lines of force, ie moving relative to a leading line of force charging at them, coming at them with no attempts to do 'technique #4 for move #23 b' :D.
It does'nt require anything but natural reactions like football tackle evasion or not being 'tagged' as a child. So as a quicky it makes them MOVE !
Attempting to teach them 'blocks' makes them static and wide open to being taken down by two or more inmates. Lets face it a guy working as a prison guard , one on one is not so bad, but for weapons.
A common tactic in prisons is double teaming a guy , one takes the legs and just grabs them so the upper body is attacked by the second guy. So moving and avoiding a take-down or wrestling is top on the list as a defense on your own, using one guy to impede the other to you by movement or forcibly grabbing to keep distances and evade being overwhelmed until your 'mob' arrives.
If your going into a cell for extraction it will be 'mob handed' anyway so it less about VT than subduing a guy with numbers, same tactic back at them ;) only done in a cell with no out or mobility.
Moving under pressure is done by adopting stepping in seung ma and moving back toi ma, balanced first, then adding back and angling off side back and angle away to the leading extending arm, so it is intuitive to move away from the 'following' strong arm with a knife, etc...if you can at least make the next action more predictable simply by positioning yourself so the guy HAS to turn to just be able to reach you with the other arm, you can prepare to grab it , duck, raw reactions that dont require months , years of reflex reactions.
You can adapt the seung ma toi ma drills with VT arm angles to be one guy 'grabs' the guards wrists and charges while the guard tries to keep the rear foot moving first or he will lose balance, rear foot goes first if pushed or you wont recover...simple and effective idea fr simply not going down and falling into a 'grab and stab' scenario.
You can assume that the hand NOT grabbing you has a type of knife , you KNOW the hand grabbing you doesnt .

Anyway just some ideas, worked for me over the years of being grabbed as a first thing and charged...I use VT but I had more time.

[hunt1]

Thanks for the replies. Keep the suggestions coming.

[desertwingchun2]

PM me as I have siheng who are in law enforcement. One of my siheng is the smallest member on the SRT for Maricopa County prisons. The other is currently a detective who was known for being the only officer not to get hit in his days patrolling Mill Ave (the college portion of Tempe AZ).

Both accomplishments are attributed to my siheng WC skills.

[mjw]

I worked in a jail for about 4 years until I moved on to the bootcamp program. Anyways legally yes can't just beat the snot out of inmates but can always defend yourself.

I would teach a little chain punching, seizing the elbow to control them and then take downs because at the end of the day the goal is to protect yourself and get these guys handcuffed and go home the same way way you went to work at the beginning of the day.

Perhaps some "shank" defense but stress running around tables or structures and if need be then some tan da type of stuff, po pi chun and run while grabbing your key to that door if you are fast enough. If not you have to fight until back up comes unless you dropped your radio or your back up didn't already call. (we weren't allowed to go on the deck without back up in the "bubble")

Be orientated on personal space and not letting inmates get too close and if you feel threatened blast them depending upon their use of force guidelines but rather take a suspension than a beating any day......

[k gledhill]

..Yeah litigation is there with the beating from VT, but better to be judged, than carried etc...

[Lee Chiang Po]

I did some hand to hand teaching in the service of my country. The most effective combat techniques seem to be jiujitsu. You only need teach a few defense and a few assault techniques to be able to take care of yourself in a tight situation. WC block and pary techniques are great in defending yourself, and if you then get in close you can apply your jiujitsu. I am not talking about BJJ either. I am talking about JJJ. I did a simple 8 week course and my guys were wreaking havok downtown on weekends.
Determine the most common attacks that the officer experiences and give him several methods of defending that as well as several other kinds of attack, Then teach him a few really good and dependable techniques for taking control completely. That way you don't have to beat anyone down unless he has a weapon, and you can dominate the situation. Use techniques that do not require you be stronger than he is. And whatever you do, don't do any of that BJJ because the last thing you want to see is an officer go to the floor with an inmate. His life might be forfit in that case.
You needn't try to teach a full course in anything. Just enough to be able to defend themselves and take control of another person.

[Egg fu young]

I've been through 2 Law Enforcement Academies and both taught exclusively Aikido. That being said, I've unfortunately witnessed fellow officers receive a beating on more than one occasion trying to apply a wrist lock as they were being punched in the face. I should state that I never had to defend myself in the line of duty but then again I'm not a **** so treating all people with respect went a long way. I would suggest (from what I've experienced) open hand striking first and most importantly (so many times Police go straight for pain compliance as they get beat on), then weapon retention and pain compliance techniques when the grappling starts and it will. We had a saying that "they taught you just enough to get you killed" and it was true because if all you knew was what was taught during the academy you were screwed. I was never taught a strike while I was in Law Enforcement because of their fear of lawsuits but I’d always felt that how could anyone sue when you open hand struck a violent suspect into compliance because you didn't want to hurt them.

PS. I've been out of LE for years now...I will punch you.:D

[k gledhill]

Open hand striking is very effective, I have used them too. Its the equivalent of hitting someone with a thick phone book, its stuns severely but leaves no marks. It can easily fracture facial bones and cause nerve damage.
As for litigation , it looks like your just pushing a guy in the face. And you can use the time tested statement..." He attacked me and I threw my hands out to defend myself and he fell over...." :D I was told to phrase my statements like this by a police officer at a station after an event.

[Tom Kagan]

I would welcome suggestions from those that have experience as to what you think should be modified, taught and trained first.

Hunt1,

Contact your SiSuk, Pete Pajil. Pete is a retired corrections officer. His school's phone number is (215) 238-9066. In these types of situations, here really is no substitute for direct experience.

Tell Pete I pointed you in his direction so you can listen to him laugh and mutter something about 'that ****ing guy.' :)

[k gledhill]

I've been through 2 Law Enforcement Academies and both taught exclusively Aikido. That being said, I've unfortunately witnessed fellow officers receive a beating on more than one occasion trying to apply a wrist lock as they were being punched in the face. I should state that I never had to defend myself in the line of duty but then again I'm not a **** so treating all people with respect went a long way. I would suggest (from what I've experienced) open hand striking first and most importantly (so many times Police go straight for pain compliance as they get beat on), then weapon retention and pain compliance techniques when the grappling starts and it will. We had a saying that "they taught you just enough to get you killed" and it was true because if all you knew was what was taught during the academy you were screwed. I was never taught a strike while I was in Law Enforcement because of their fear of lawsuits but I’d always felt that how could anyone sue when you open hand struck a violent suspect into compliance because you didn't want to hurt them.

PS. I've been out of LE for years now...I will punch you.:D

Second the "respect" , for not escalating situations by keeping potential violence in check. I have prevented inumerable fights by staying polite.

[mjw]

Open hand striking is very effective, I have used them too. Its the equivalent of hitting someone with a thick phone book, its stuns severely but leaves no marks. It can easily fracture facial bones and cause nerve damage.
As for litigation , it looks like your just pushing a guy in the face. And you can use the time tested statement..." He attacked me and I threw my hands out to defend myself and he fell over...." :D I was told to phrase my statements like this by a police officer at a station after an event.

Yes or chops open hand strikes are lower on the use of force for my department anyways so palm or chop which is probably just as if not more effective than a closed fist....