For School Owners

[TenTigers]

FOR MARTIAL ARTS SCHOOL OWNERS:
What is the average demographic for Martial Arts instruction?
Mostly for parents who sign their kids up.
Family, income,etc?
My experience is middle/upper middle, blue/white collar (what is that, light blue?)
What are your experiences?
(this is leading somewhere, I want to test an idea I'm toying with)

[MasterKiller]

98% broke mutherf@ckers who beg for free lessons while talking about their new Xbox 360 game they just bought.
2% kids.

[TenTigers]

you're killing my theory....
:(

[Shaolindynasty]

98% broke mutherf@ckers who beg for free lessons while talking about their new Xbox 360 game they just bought.


This is a correct figure

[ginosifu]

I usually have 100 students:

50% Adults
50% Kids

25-30% of kids ages 3-8

20-25% of kids ages 9-12

5-10% Teens ages 13-19

30-40%% Adults ages 20-40

5-10% Adults ages 41 and Up

40-45% are Africa American

35-40% are Caucasian American

20% are Asian (Chinese American) or Asian Indian American (From India)

Average family Income is: $25K - 30K

Average Young Single Adult Male is: 40K - 45K

Mostly we are a Blue Collar town.

Most average Familys get into financial trouble quick around here.

ginosifu

[ShaolinDan]

I think this question is hugely dependent on where you are teaching and what you are teaching. Different demographic at my kung fu school in college town and our sister kung fu school in depressed city. Also very different demographic at my kung fu school and the mma school in same town.

[omarthefish]

I usually have 100 students:

50% Adults
50% Kids

25-30% of kids ages 3-8

20-25% of kids ages 9-12

5-10% Teens ages 13-19

80-90% Adults ages 20-40

5-10% Adults ages 41 and Up

Taking just the low end figures...

25%+20%+5%+80&=130% :confused:

High end:

30%+25%+10%+90%=155%

So the combination of adults and children makes up anywhere from 130%-155% of your total student body. ;)


Most average Familys get into financial trouble quick around here
With math skills like that...no wonder. :D

[ginosifu]

Taking just the low end figures...

25%+20%+5%+80&=130% :confused:

High end:

30%+25%+10%+90%=155%

So the combination of adults and children makes up anywhere from 130%-155% of your total student body. ;)

With math skills like that...no wonder. :D

opp .... typing error

25-30% of kids ages 3-8

20-25% of kids ages 9-12

5-10% Teens ages 13-19

30-40% Adults ages 20-40 these are the correct numbers

5-10% Adults ages 41 and Up

ginosifu

[TenTigers]

Here's what I was getting at:
Here's the plan:
The average age of today's Harley rider is 49yrs old--up from 42 five years ago.
The average household income is $87,000. If you can afford a $20,000 toy, then you certainly can afford Martial Arts!
Forget the Chamber of Commerce, Forget Rotary Club.
I'm joining my local H.O.G. chapter! :-)

[David Jamieson]

You're not a H.O.G chapter member already?

Rotarians? really. That's burger flipping charity. Why do that? there's way more effective ways to do community service...

C.O.C? You need them for your business. :-)

[ginosifu]

Here's what I was getting at:
Here's the plan:
The average age of today's Harley rider is 49yrs old--up from 42 five years ago.
The average household income is $87,000. If you can afford a $20,000 toy, then you certainly can afford Martial Arts!
Forget the Chamber of Commerce, Forget Rotary Club.
I'm joining my local H.O.G. chapter! :-)

Geesh, you guys are rich over there in NY. Average income over here is barely $30-35K

ginosifu

[David Jamieson]

Geesh, you guys are rich over there in NY. Average income over here is barely $30-35K

ginosifu

well, you Ohioans don't have to pay 4000 a month for a closet size apartment overlooking the brick wall next door.... :)

[TenTigers]

Geesh, you guys are rich over there in NY. Average income over here is barely $30-35K

ginosifu
not US guys, THOSE guys.
I teach Kung-Fu, remember?:(

[Shaolin]

What's the point of this thread? I'm seriously asking, no disrespect. What's the questions you really want answered? Are you looking for marketing ideas, revenue stream ideas or ad ideas? What prices to charge? How to get your students to pay?

[taai gihk yahn]

What's the point of this thread? I'm seriously asking, no disrespect. What's the questions you really want answered? Are you looking for marketing ideas, revenue stream ideas or ad ideas? What prices to charge? How to get your students to pay?

i think that he wants to be able to write off his cycle hobbying as a business expense; smart man...

[mooyingmantis]

well, you Ohioans don't have to pay 4000 a month for a closet size apartment overlooking the brick wall next door.... :)

And we are very thankful of that!

[TenTigers]

What's the point of this thread? I'm seriously asking, no disrespect.
There'a a HD dealership across from my school, and I always see the H.O.G. meet there and go on outings. I noticed that these are really the same demographic as most of the parents and students-40's 50's middle class, most are blue collar-but successful, meaning they have a house, two cars, maybe a boat or RV, and other toys. Disposable income. But they also are down to earth enough to see the value in Martial Arts and what it can do for their kids.
I've had my Harley since the mid 80's, but never really wanted to join H.O.G.
But after doing the research, it may actually be a great way to meet families who would be interested in Martial Arts.
It's worth a shot, and it may actually be fun, too. wtf

[Yao Sing]

My school was next to a cheerleading/gymnastics school. I was hoping to get the brothers of the girls in the cheerleading class but they apparently all went to the local TKD already.

The parents had to wait outside while the class was in session so I tried recruiting them. They said they were too old for KF and that martial arts was for kids (seems to be the prevailing opinion, probably due to all the afterschool Karate daycare). So I tried to get them into Tai Chi but they had excuses like "I hurt my wrist so I can't do Tai Chi" etc.

Serious students seem hard to come by and paying students even harder to find.

[omarthefish]

opp .... typing error

[snip]

30-40% Adults ages 20-40 these are the correct numbers


ginosifu

No worries.

Carry on.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

There'a a HD dealership across from my school, and I always see the H.O.G. meet there and go on outings. I noticed that these are really the same demographic as most of the parents and students-40's 50's middle class, most are blue collar-but successful, meaning they have a house, two cars, maybe a boat or RV, and other toys. Disposable income. But they also are down to earth enough to see the value in Martial Arts and what it can do for their kids.
I've had my Harley since the mid 80's, but never really wanted to join H.O.G.
But after doing the research, it may actually be a great way to meet families who would be interested in Martial Arts.
It's worth a shot, and it may actually be fun, too. wtf

You Might Be a Yuppie Biker If:

1. If your trailor has more miles than your bike.

2. If you have doubled the weight of your bike with bolt on chrome.

3. If you have never kick started a bike before.

4. If you buy bikes as investments.

5. If your a HOG member and think your an outlaw.

6. If you think a wrench is a *****y woman.

7. If the last time you were at the Harley dealership you came home with golf balls and a toilet seat.

8. If you stop 30 miles from Sturgis to unload your bike and ride in.

9. If you don't ride in the rain.

10. If your tattoos wash off.

:D

[Shaolin]

There'a a HD dealership across from my school, and I always see the H.O.G. meet there and go on outings. I noticed that these are really the same demographic as most of the parents and students-40's 50's middle class, most are blue collar-but successful, meaning they have a house, two cars, maybe a boat or RV, and other toys. Disposable income. But they also are down to earth enough to see the value in Martial Arts and what it can do for their kids.
I've had my Harley since the mid 80's, but never really wanted to join H.O.G.
But after doing the research, it may actually be a great way to meet families who would be interested in Martial Arts.
It's worth a shot, and it may actually be fun, too. wtf

Not a bad theory. I do believe you are on the right track as far as which demographic to market to. In my 13 years of running schools and tracking the patterns of my students (I have invested a lot of time and money into research) I've noticed the demographic that seems to be the most loyal clientele with the income to be able to finance their hobby in the martial arts are the parents of children ages 5-8 and adults ages 35-45.

MMA gyms really seems to market to males ages 15-25. They can have them. The problem with this particular demographic is their lives change too frequently. They get/change/lose/quit jobs, they get/change/lose girlfriends, they move, graduate high school, go to college/military, get lazy, fluctuate moods, change their goals regularly, etc. It's a horrible market to sell to. The only benefit is they can, for a new school owner, help to fill a school fast. But after the school is able to cover the overhead they need to find a more reliable clientele or the school will struggle.

[TenTigers]

MMA gyms really seems to market to males ages 15-25. They can have them. The problem with this particular demographic is their lives change too frequently. They get/change/lose/quit jobs, they get/change/lose girlfriends, they move, graduate high school, go to college/military, get lazy, fluctuate moods, change their goals regularly, etc. It's a horrible market to sell to. The only benefit is they can, for a new school owner, help to fill a school fast. But after the school is able to cover the overhead they need to find a more reliable clientele or the school will struggle.

spoiled youngsters with feeling of entitlement, oh, I mean, rights. (yeah, right)
Sell them year contracts with no option to quit. Teach them responsibility, keeping their word,honoring their commitments, finishing what they start, things they should have learned by age 10.
Well, that's how I feel...not really how I do business.
Might be why I'm still struggling!:eek:

[Shaolin]

My school was next to a cheerleading/gymnastics school. I was hoping to get the brothers of the girls in the cheerleading class but they apparently all went to the local TKD already.

The parents had to wait outside while the class was in session so I tried recruiting them. They said they were too old for KF and that martial arts was for kids (seems to be the prevailing opinion, probably due to all the afterschool Karate daycare). So I tried to get them into Tai Chi but they had excuses like "I hurt my wrist so I can't do Tai Chi" etc.

Serious students seem hard to come by and paying students even harder to find.

I had the same issue years ago at my very first school. One mistake I came to realize over the years that most all school owners do is they sell the martial arts. Their particular brand of martial arts. We have a tendency to look at our schools with black belt eyes and from the inside out. Remember, you're a business man/woman who does the martial arts not a martial artist who does business. What we should be doing is looking at our school as our students see us. Most of your students are going to be first timers to the martial arts and know very little about them.

This may sting a bit but you need to hear it brothers because I truly want your schools to be successful.

NOBODY CARES WHAT STYLE YOU TEACH, YOUR LINAGE OR WHO YOUR INSTRUCTOR IS!

In case you didn't hear that:
NOBODY CARES WHAT STYLE YOU TEACH, YOUR LINAGE OR WHO YOUR INSTRUCTOR IS!

Stop selling "your" martial art and start selling the benefits of the martial arts.
- Easy to learn, and fun
- Excellent self-defense skills
- Non-violent conflict resolution
- Improved performance in sports and school
- Instills virtues
- Confidence
- Self-Discipline/Impulse Control
- Commitment
- Respect
- Fitness/Athletic Improvement
- Bully Prevention
- Control learning disabilities such as ADD/ADHD

When someone new to the martial arts comes to your school they want to know what's in it for them. How does telling them that you're the 5th generation successor to the 5 palm golden monkey slaps his meat system convince them that they should invest in your school?

Here's how the conversation should look:

Prospect: "Hi, I'm interested in what you have to offer myself/my child. What do you teach?"
Instructor: "We teach a multitude of things here. What would you like to get from the martial arts? What are your goals?"

Now you have a hot point. Tell them all the benefits they'll receive from training at your school but 85% of everything you tell them should revert back to their main goal (their hot point).

Next, assume the sale.

Instructor: "What I'd like to do is schedule you a free, no obligation trial lesson so you can experience what we have to offer first hand. I have a class either Wednesday or Thursday which works best for you?"

If the prospect tells you something like, "I have to check my schedule." or "I have to talk it over with my spouse." There's a good chance they're not coming back. Don't fret, move on to the next prospect. This is also how you weed out those who are truly interested in making a lifestyle change.

P.S. If your system's tradition and instructors linage are important to you that's great. Offer lessons out of your house, this way you can keep to your traditions, charge what you want and not struggle with a business.

[Shaolin]

spoiled youngsters with feeling of entitlement, oh, I mean, rights. (yeah, right)
Sell them year contracts with no option to quit. Teach them responsibility, keeping their word,honoring their commitments, finishing what they start, things they should have learned by age 10.
Well, that's how I feel...not really how I do business.
Might be why I'm still struggling!:eek:

Sounds like you're an respectable teacher. Don't ever lose that. I'm not saying don't train 15-25 year olds. I personally have a large number of this demographic at my school and I love every single one of them. I do my best to try to instill honorable adult values in them because they're confused and need help. What I'm saying is the marketing and advertising I send out is geared towards children ages 5-8 and adults over the age over 30.

[ginosifu]

I had the same issue years ago at my very first school. One mistake I came to realize over the years that most all school owners do is they sell the martial arts. Their particular brand of martial arts. We have a tendency to look at our schools with black belt eyes and from the inside out. Remember, you're a business man/woman who does the martial arts not a martial artist who does business. What we should be doing is looking at our school as our students see us. Most of your students are going to be first timers to the martial arts and know very little about them.

This may sting a bit but you need to hear it brothers because I truly want your schools to be successful.

NOBODY CARES WHAT STYLE YOU TEACH, YOUR LINAGE OR WHO YOUR INSTRUCTOR IS!

In case you didn't hear that:
NOBODY CARES WHAT STYLE YOU TEACH, YOUR LINAGE OR WHO YOUR INSTRUCTOR IS!

Stop selling "your" martial art and start selling the benefits of the martial arts.
- Easy to learn, and fun
- Excellent self-defense skills
- Non-violent conflict resolution
- Improved performance in sports and school
- Instills virtues
- Confidence
- Self-Discipline/Impulse Control
- Commitment
- Respect
- Fitness/Athletic Improvement
- Bully Prevention
- Control learning disabilities such as ADD/ADHD

When someone new to the martial arts comes to your school they want to know what's in it for them. How does telling them that you're the 5th generation successor to the 5 palm golden monkey slaps his meat system convince them that they should invest in your school?

Here's how the conversation should look:

Prospect: "Hi, I'm interested in what you have to offer myself/my child. What do you teach?"
Instructor: "We teach a multitude of things here. What would you like to get from the martial arts? What are your goals?"

Now you have a hot point. Tell them all the benefits they'll receive from training at your school but 85% of everything you tell them should revert back to their main goal (their hot point).

Next, assume the sale.

Instructor: "What I'd like to do is schedule you a free, no obligation trial lesson so you can experience what we have to offer first hand. I have a class either Wednesday or Thursday which works best for you?"

If the prospect tells you something like, "I have to check my schedule." or "I have to talk it over with my spouse." There's a good chance they're not coming back. Don't fret, move on to the next prospect. This is also how you weed out those who are truly interested in making a lifestyle change.

P.S. If your system's tradition and instructors linage are important to you that's great. Offer lessons out of your house, this way you can keep to your traditions, charge what you want and not struggle with a business.

We are still struggling a bit but the above is my approach as well. My Sigung is Wing Lam Sifu. Not a single student that comes thru my doors or calls me up on the phone has ever heard of Wing Lam or really gives a crap who Wing Lam is.

All they want Discipline / Focus / Bully Defense for their kids or Cardio and some self defense for themselves.

Follow the above steps and you should some improvement in your stats.

ginosifu

ps: Every guy who has contacted me and stated that he wanted to learn "HUNG GAR" and was going to be my best student......Ever, never made it past the first trial lesson. They never sign !

[TenTigers]

ps: Every guy who has contacted me and stated that he wanted to learn "HUNG GAR" and was going to be my best student......Ever, never made it past the first trial lesson. They never sign !
yeah...me too. (sigh)
Before I signed up at my Hung-Ga Sifu's school, I researched other systems, and decided on Hung-Ga. I had already trained in other arts for over ten years. I picked up some of Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen from a friend who did Fu Jow P'ai earlier, so I kinda knew what I was looking for and what to expect. I stayed for about 15 yrs.
Where are these types of students? Well, besides you and me...

[Syn7]

well, you Ohioans don't have to pay 4000 a month for a closet size apartment overlooking the brick wall next door.... :)

sounds like vancouver. its getting rough up in here. now they have these new micro apartments. smallest suites in canada they say. but they still run from like 800 to 1500 and these are called low income housing. brutal. i really feel for the people who cant get that together. 226 square feet, fukc me!!!

[aktionmancer]

well said, well said






Stop selling "your" martial art and start selling the benefits of the martial arts.
- Easy to learn, and fun
- Excellent self-defense skills
- Non-violent conflict resolution
- Improved performance in sports and school
- Instills virtues
- Confidence
- Self-Discipline/Impulse Control
- Commitment
- Respect
- Fitness/Athletic Improvement
- Bully Prevention
- Control learning disabilities such as ADD/ADHD