Wc vs mma

[RonBlair]

This is what happens when you train "traditionally" in wc. If you spend too much time in chi Sao, chi gerk, forms, wooden dummy, technique practice. Spend møw one sparring and conditioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io_qLYs8Ocw&feature=player_embedded#

[k gledhill]

Who would teach a guy to stand and fight like that ? anyone know the lineage ?

[nasmedicine]

Who would teach a guy to stand and fight like that ? anyone know the lineage ?

This is the guy responsible for getting his beaten.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvpThaHVubM&feature=relmfu

Description of video as follows, " Brooklyn Monk, Antonio Graceffo, travels to Kota Damansara, Selangor, Malaysia to train with Sifu Kenneth, and expert in Wing Chun and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Combat Wing Chun or Street Fight Wing Chun is a practical Wing Chun based fighting system, which Sifu Kenneth has developed into a viable art to be used in MMA competitions. Not just talking the talk, but also walking the walk, Sifu has sent his fighters to MMA tournaments around Malaysia. "

[k gledhill]

:confused: .....confusing me too.

[Phil Redmond]

This is what happens when you train "traditionally" in wc. If you spend too much time in chi Sao, chi gerk, forms, wooden dummy, technique practice. Spend møw one sparring and conditioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io_qLYs8Ocw&feature=player_embedded#
That clip was posted here on another thread. All Wing Chun people don't fight like that and it's obvious why. With regards to sparring, fighting, conditioning, and competing go to my youtube channels and you'll see all of the above.

[Vajramusti]

:confused: .....confusing me too.
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Sure is not any wing chun that I can relate. to. He did not know wing chun and was in no way
ready to enter a ring. Terrible structure and hands to boot.This kind of stuff adds to the ignorance about wing chun.

joy chaudhuri

[RonBlair]

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Sure is not any wing chun that I can relate. to. He did not know wing chun and was in no way
ready to enter a ring. Terrible structure and hands to boot.This kind of stuff adds to the ignorance about wing chun.

joy chaudhuri

It's quotes like this that are pointless. Unless you can point to a video of wc being effective in the octagon your point is just rhetoric.

[Vajramusti]

It's quotes like this that are pointless. Unless you can point to a video of wc being effective in the octagon your point is just rhetoric.---------
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Not rhetoric. That guy is not really a wc guy in my books. Octagon or no octagon. Or ring, mat, street etc. The context is what that guy was doing- not the venue.

[Phil Redmond]

It's quotes like this that are pointless. Unless you can point to a video of wc being effective in the octagon your point is just rhetoric.
Wing Chun is a standup art. When you say octagon I'll presume you mean one specific MMA organization. All MMA fights are not in an "octagon". Anyway, there are online examples of Wing Chun being used effectively with regards to standup fighting. It's always great to meet other WC people. I'd like to introduce myself. I'm Phillip Redmond and I do WC in NYC. I've studied with a couple if WC Sifus and I presently study under Sifu William Cheung. What's your name and with whom do you study?

[wingchunIan]

This is what happens when you train "traditionally" in wc. If you spend too much time in chi Sao, chi gerk, forms, wooden dummy, technique practice. Spend møw one sparring and conditioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io_qLYs8Ocw&feature=player_embedded#

It was obvious from the get go, when the unfortunate star stood there with his hands in what he clearly thought was a good pose and his legs in what I presume he thought was YGKYM for the whole time that the ring officials were getting ready, that he'd never had a fight before. Full credit to him for getting in there and trying but shame on those who told him he was ready and who alledgedly trained him. The clip isn't representative of the end results of traditional wing chun training, only poor / insufficient (I have no idea how long the kid had been training) wing chun training.

[trubblman]

This is what happens when you train "traditionally" in wc. If you spend too much time in chi Sao, chi gerk, forms, wooden dummy, technique practice. Spend møw one sparring and conditioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io_qLYs8Ocw&feature=player_embedded#

Your conclusion is BS. MMA is just the style de jour. Just like full contact karate, kickboxing, ninjitsu etc before it. Every yahoo goes to the MMA gym with a green yellow and blue flag, takes lessons and thinks that #1 MMA is the be all to end all of fighting and #2 that he is next incarnation of Chuck Liddel or Anderson Silva. All you showed some guy who thinks he know VT who might have lost. You cannot base the efficacy of a style on one practitioner. And you cannot base the efficacy of a style because you dont see any one of that style in the fighting forum of your choosing.

[sanjuro_ronin]

To make ANY system effective VS a certain style ( say Muay Thai) or in a certain environment ( say a cage), it MUST be trained VS said system or IN said environment and under those conditions almost ANY style can be effective ( if trained correctly).

[LoneTiger108]

This is what happens when you train "traditionally" in wc. If you spend too much time in chi Sao, chi gerk, forms, wooden dummy, technique practice. Spend møw one sparring and conditioning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io_qLYs8Ocw&feature=player_embedded#

What a crock of sh!t!! :mad:

THIS is what happens when you are not prepared to 'wrestle' and has nothing to do with training in Wing Chun 'Traditionally' IHMHO. From what I saw, the guy would have entered the fight 'cold' believeing that his attempt at kim yeung ma would be good enuff lol!

Let me ask you this, just because the lad put's out an 'asking hand' like a Wing Chun student does that automatically tell you that he has even trained all the things you mentioned?? No.

Another pointless MMA Vs Wing Chun thread :confused:

[YouKnowWho]

THIS is what happens when you are not prepared to 'wrestle' and has nothing to do with training in Wing Chun 'Traditionally' IHMHO.
If your striking ability can reach to this level, you probably don't need any "wrestling" experience. After all, this is what WC suppose to be good at. Either bring your striking ability to this level, or cross train some form of wrestling. Which approach is better? It's very hard to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1dh_x2rqKc&feature=player_embedded

[LoneTiger108]

If your striking ability can reach to this level, you probably don't need any "wrestling" experience. After all, this is what WC suppose to be good at. Either bring your striking ability to this level, or cross train some form of wrestling. Which approach is better? It's very hard to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1dh_x2rqKc&feature=player_embedded

I see your point and agree.

But if you think Wing Chun is a only a 'striking' art I would ask that you think again ;)

And FWIW if Silva had been man-handled in the same way as in the clip given, he wouldn't have been able to strike like he did in your clip. (IMHO)

[Vajramusti]

If your striking ability can reach to this level, you probably don't need any "wrestling" experience. After all, this is what WC suppose to be good at. Either bring your striking ability to this level, or cross train some form of wrestling. Which approach is better? It's very hard to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1dh_x2rqKc&feature=player_embedded
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Apples and oranges. The Belford clip does not illuminate wing chun. The scourge of Youtube dependence....

Again, I have constently argued WC needs to shrink- not expand- too many people who don't know what they are doing.

[k gledhill]

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Apples and oranges. The Belford clip does not illuminate wing chun. The scourge of Youtube dependence....

Again, I have constently argued WC needs to shrink- not expand- too many people who don't know what they are doing.

Never a truer word has been uttered...

[Frost]

I see your point and agree.

But if you think Wing Chun is a only a 'striking' art I would ask that you think again ;)

And FWIW if Silva had been man-handled in the same way as in the clip given, he wouldn't have been able to strike like he did in your clip. (IMHO)

FWIW belfort did the handling in that clip no silva

[Frost]

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Apples and oranges. The Belford clip does not illuminate wing chun. The scourge of Youtube dependence....

Again, I have constently argued WC needs to shrink- not expand- too many people who don't know what they are doing.

and wayy too many people all ready and eager to say they dont know what they are doing, but refusing to put up clips to show them the way ..........

[YouKnowWho]

The Belford clip does not illuminate wing chun.
Does it matter? If Belford has some skill that we want, we should try to get it no matter where that skill may come from.

I love "head hunting". Belford's skill impressed me big time.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There are many reasons why I left WC but the most important was that it was NOT a good fit for me.
I think that IF I had stayed in WC I wou8ld not have become the fighter and MA I became.
I think that some people do not realize that and MAY give WC a "bad name" at times, through no fault of their own but just because, well...they don't have the WC that they THINK they do.
I think that certain systems are not for everybody and WC is one of them.

[anerlich]

But if you think Wing Chun is a only a 'striking' art I would ask that you think again

I did and still came to the same conclusion. BTW, your hinting at superior knowledge or deeper understanding without backing it up with substantive details is getting tedious.


Does it matter? If Belford has some skill that we want, we should try to get it no matter where that skill may come from.

The point is that Vitor's skills didn't come from Wing Chun, and those who want them might need to go further afield.

[Vajramusti]

There are many reasons why I left WC but the most important was that it was NOT a good fit for me.
I think that IF I had stayed in WC I wou8ld not have become the fighter and MA I became.
I think that some people do not realize that and MAY give WC a "bad name" at times, through no fault of their own but just because, well...they don't have the WC that they THINK they do.
I think that certain systems are not for everybody and WC is one of them.
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I have been to Toronto several times and have seen the most common wc there.

Joy

[GlennR]

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I have been to Toronto several times and have seen the most common wc there.

Joy

Most common?

[Phil Redmond]

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I have been to Toronto several times and have seen the most common wc there.

Joy
Wow Joy, that doesn't sound like you....:( Toronto is a big city and that are many WC schools.

[dirtyrat]

There are many reasons why I left WC but the most important was that it was NOT a good fit for me.
I think that IF I had stayed in WC I wou8ld not have become the fighter and MA I became.
I think that some people do not realize that and MAY give WC a "bad name" at times, through no fault of their own but just because, well...they don't have the WC that they THINK they do.
I think that certain systems are not for everybody and WC is one of them.

same here. the "man" needs to be developed, the system is a tool to that end.

[wingchunIan]

If your striking ability can reach to this level, you probably don't need any "wrestling" experience. After all, this is what WC suppose to be good at. Either bring your striking ability to this level, or cross train some form of wrestling. Which approach is better? It's very hard to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1dh_x2rqKc&feature=player_embedded

Interesting clip especially for those who have such a downer on chain punching. Not seen this clip before but will definitely add it to my playlist.

[wingchunIan]

I love this forum. Loads of people bagging on the Belfort clip as not Wing Chun are the same ones who claim Wing Chun is a principle based art. Belfort has never studied Wing Chun to the best of my knowledge but he (whether knowingly or otherwise) demonstrates some great examples of wing chun principles in this clip. 1) he uses straight punches that travel short distances 2) he goes straight to the jic seen of Silva and stays on it not giving him time to recover 3) when they hit the fence and his strikes are stopped he changes angle and continues to strike 4) he continuously punched and recycled his hands.
I've seen a lot of so called Wing Chun that demonstrated less of the principles than Belfort which is ironic given that as stated above i don't believe that he has ever studied the art to any level:rolleyes:

[GlennR]

I love this forum. Loads of people bagging on the Belfort clip as not Wing Chun are the same ones who claim Wing Chun is a principle based art. Belfort has never studied Wing Chun to the best of my knowledge but he (whether knowingly or otherwise) demonstrates some great examples of wing chun principles in this clip. 1) he uses straight punches that travel short distances 2) he goes straight to the jic seen of Silva and stays on it not giving him time to recover 3) when they hit the fence and his strikes are stopped he changes angle and continues to strike 4) he continuously punched and recycled his hands.
I've seen a lot of so called Wing Chun that demonstrated less of the principles than Belfort which is ironic given that as stated above i don't believe that he has ever studied the art to any level:rolleyes:

WC doesnt have a monopoly on straight punches

[Phil Redmond]

WC doesnt have a monopoly on straight punches
For sure. That could've been Bak Mei, Lung Ying, Shingyi, etc.

[anerlich]

Loads of people bagging on the Belfort clip as not Wing Chun are the same ones who claim Wing Chun is a principle based art. Belfort has never studied Wing Chun to the best of my knowledge but he (whether knowingly or otherwise) demonstrates some great examples of wing chun principles in this clip. 1) he uses straight punches that travel short distances 2) he goes straight to the jic seen of Silva and stays on it not giving him time to recover 3) when they hit the fence and his strikes are stopped he changes angle and continues to strike 4) he continuously punched and recycled his hands.

Those are good principles, but as Vitor demonstrated, are not exclusive to Wing Chun.

What deserves to be bagged here is people who use that clip to show "wing chun principles" ... because they apparently can't find any clips of Wing Chun practitioners who can do the same thing.

[Vajramusti]

Wow Joy, that doesn't sound like you....:( Toronto is a big city and that are many WC schools.
------------------------------------------------------
I usually know what I am talking about. I did not want to mention names or lineages.

But given your comment...
Dunn Wah(Sunny tang) left his UK school to come to open wing chun schools in Canada in 1971- he opened a chain of schools and developed instructors. He was associated wth Moy Yat. Since then other schools WSL, TWC, YKS (Rene is in Montreal) and Vietnamese mixed wc came in.Yes WC has spread but Synny tang's chain provided a head start in the 70s.

Sanjuro-Paul learned some wc from one of Sunny Tang's student. kung fu fighter on this list
was a certified instructor with Sunny Tang.Of course there have been changes and growth since the 70s.Check the Sunny Tang connections.
I know the Toronto area is huge- a beautiful well kept city with good transportation.

joy

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1149351]------------------------------------------------------
Hi Phil and Glenn


I usually know what I am talking about. I did not want to mention names or lineages.

But given your comment...
Dunn Wah(Sunny tang) left his UK school to come to open wing chun schools in Canada in 1971- he opened a chain of schools and developed instructors. He was associated wth Moy Yat. Since then other schools WSL, TWC, YKS (Rene is in Montreal) and Vietnamese mixed wc came in.Yes WC has spread but Sunny tang's chain provided a head start in the 70s.

Sanjuro-Paul learned some wc from one of Sunny Tang's student. kung fu fighter on this list
was a certified instructor with Sunny Tang.Of course there have been changes and growth since the 70s.Check the Sunny Tang connections. One of Ip man's studenys taught there and is probably now retired. I went up there to visit my sigung Ho Kam Ming 30-40 miles outside of Toronto when he was there.I have a cousin there.
I know the Toronto area is huge- a beautiful well kept city with good transportation.

joy

[GlennR]

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1149351]------------------------------------------------------
Hi Phil and Glenn


I usually know what I am talking about. I did not want to mention names or lineages.

But given your comment...
Dunn Wah(Sunny tang) left his UK school to come to open wing chun schools in Canada in 1971- he opened a chain of schools and developed instructors. He was associated wth Moy Yat. Since then other schools WSL, TWC, YKS (Rene is in Montreal) and Vietnamese mixed wc came in.Yes WC has spread but Sunny tang's chain provided a head start in the 70s.

Sanjuro-Paul learned some wc from one of Sunny Tang's student. kung fu fighter on this list
was a certified instructor with Sunny Tang.Of course there have been changes and growth since the 70s.Check the Sunny Tang connections. One of Ip man's studenys taught there and is probably now retired. I went up there to visit my sigung Ho Kam Ming 30-40 miles outside of Toronto when he was there.I have a cousin there.
I know the Toronto area is huge- a beautiful well kept city with good transportation.

joy

Got ya, thanks Joy

[Wayfaring]

If your striking ability can reach to this level, you probably don't need any "wrestling" experience. After all, this is what WC suppose to be good at. Either bring your striking ability to this level, or cross train some form of wrestling. Which approach is better? It's very hard to say.


And yet Vitor Belfort has a black belt in BJJ. What exactly are we trying to learn from this clip?

[wingchunIan]

LOL. So if a principle or technique isn't unique to Wing Chun, or if the person demonstrating successful fighting never formally studied Wing Chun, it isn't Wing Chun or worthy of dialogue on this thread or doesn't support or undermine Wing Chun points of view:) Better stop talking then guys because everything in Wing Chun can be found elsewhere in other arts in bits and pieces.
Everytime I watch MMA (or MT, Karate, TKD, boxing etc for that matter) I look for things that reflect Wing Chun, for openings that might have been capitalised on using Wing Chun and for shots / mistakes that could have been avoided using Wing Chun (as well as those that wouldn't ie potential gaps). It's possible to take from all kinds of sources to give things that can then be trained in the next session.
Each to their own, I personally find this clip as useful as any posted on here.

[Frost]

LOL. So if a principle or technique isn't unique to Wing Chun, or if the person demonstrating successful fighting never formally studied Wing Chun, it isn't Wing Chun or worthy of dialogue on this thread or doesn't support or undermine Wing Chun points of view:) Better stop talking then guys because everything in Wing Chun can be found elsewhere in other arts in bits and pieces.
Everytime I watch MMA (or MT, Karate, TKD, boxing etc for that matter) I look for things that reflect Wing Chun, for openings that might have been capitalised on using Wing Chun and for shots / mistakes that could have been avoided using Wing Chun (as well as those that wouldn't ie potential gaps). It's possible to take from all kinds of sources to give things that can then be trained in the next session.
Each to their own, I personally find this clip as useful as any posted on here.

Nope the point is, and it has been made many times, if you have to post clips of other arts to show how wing chun should look in combat, and the only clips of wing chun guys fighting by and large are decried here and called bad and terrible, then maybe there is something wrong with wing chun and the way you are training it

Or put another way if the only successful application of wing chun principles in MMA comes from a frigging boxer who has never trained wing chun in his life….maybe you should train like him and not all those other wing chun guys that everyone seems to think s*ck?

[GlennR]

LOL. So if a principle or technique isn't unique to Wing Chun, or if the person demonstrating successful fighting never formally studied Wing Chun, it isn't Wing Chun or worthy of dialogue on this thread or doesn't support or undermine Wing Chun points of view:) Better stop talking then guys because everything in Wing Chun can be found elsewhere in other arts in bits and pieces.
Everytime I watch MMA (or MT, Karate, TKD, boxing etc for that matter) I look for things that reflect Wing Chun, for openings that might have been capitalised on using Wing Chun and for shots / mistakes that could have been avoided using Wing Chun (as well as those that wouldn't ie potential gaps). It's possible to take from all kinds of sources to give things that can then be trained in the next session.
Each to their own, I personally find this clip as useful as any posted on here.

Ill be honest, i think you are wrong in more than a few ways.

Wchunners go on about it being a "principle driven art" but heres the catch..... just like a boxer, MT guy, karate guy etc we learn techniques.
The punch, tan, pac, fook, bong etc are all taught in a structured form and then re-inforced through training such as chi-sao and sparring.
So yes, there is a principal(s) but they are implemented via technique.

So ,when i see Vitor throwing a handful of punches in a row at Silva, im looking for the technique , not the principal, that is implimented.
Tech wise, i saw nothing WC in that clip, no YKJM structure, no typical WC punch.
It was straight and he few a few in a row.

The principles you talk about arent just found in WC, boxing for eg uses many of them... its the techniques that define the arts.

So, (as an example) if you see sloppy technique in a boxer, he doesnt need WC... he just needs to improve his boxing

[sanjuro_ronin]

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I have been to Toronto several times and have seen the most common wc there.

Joy

And?
I trained under Sunny Tang AND Nelson Chan AND also experienced first hand some of the other schools in the GTA area ( Toronto and Mississagua).
Never had a chance to train with Kennedy though ( Phils student/rep) and I regret that,but I also had a chance to train JKD and a couple of different teachers.
JKD was a better fit for me than WC, for what's worth.

My comment was simply that I think certain systems are better suited for certain people be it body type or temperment but perhaps more importantly, prior MA experience.

[LoneTiger108]

BTW, your hinting at superior knowledge or deeper understanding without backing it up with substantive details is getting tedious.

No hinting at that at all. Just stating simple facts.

Wing Chun is not just a striking art. End of. If you think it is, then that's your business. I was only asking that everyone think on a wider spectrum that's all.

And please read your own ego-infested comments before you sling mud my friend. :rolleyes:

BTW What extra details do you want me to present here that I haven't already over the years? Footage of me brawling at a bar or something??

I learnt from a Chinese Literature base, and caoch that way too to very few people, so as far as 'deeper knowledge' is concerned you can take from that what you like. I personally don't feel it has too much of an impact in the early stages of learning, but when you want to teach or coach? It has only ever helped me. :)

[wingchunIan]

Ill be honest, i think you are wrong in more than a few ways.

Wchunners go on about it being a "principle driven art" but heres the catch..... just like a boxer, MT guy, karate guy etc we learn techniques.
The punch, tan, pac, fook, bong etc are all taught in a structured form and then re-inforced through training such as chi-sao and sparring.
So yes, there is a principal(s) but they are implemented via technique.

So ,when i see Vitor throwing a handful of punches in a row at Silva, im looking for the technique , not the principal, that is implimented.
Tech wise, i saw nothing WC in that clip, no YKJM structure, no typical WC punch.
It was straight and he few a few in a row.

The principles you talk about arent just found in WC, boxing for eg uses many of them... its the techniques that define the arts.

So, (as an example) if you see sloppy technique in a boxer, he doesnt need WC... he just needs to improve his boxing

YJKYM?? in a fight are you serious? as for no wing chun punches, they were straight, the elbows were down, the fist vertical and they went to the jic seen of his opponent, his body weight was behind them but not over committed and he continually recycled the hands. No they weren't wing chun punches because Belfort has never trained Wing Chun and of course because he didn't do the obligatory SNT form first or wear silly slippers or a pretty sash.
With regard to the techniques being the thing that defines the art, as I stated above there are no techniques that are unique to wing chun everything can be found somewhere else in a TCMA, Japanese MA or even JKD. What makes an art individual is its philosophy and principles, the techniques are there because they fit into the thinking. Looking for perfect classroom techniques in a fight is like looking for the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. Anyway I think you're wrong, you think I'm wrong, its all a matter of opinion so we can agree to disagree.

[wingchunIan]

Nope the point is, and it has been made many times, if you have to post clips of other arts to show how wing chun should look in combat, and the only clips of wing chun guys fighting by and large are decried here and called bad and terrible, then maybe there is something wrong with wing chun and the way you are training it

Or put another way if the only successful application of wing chun principles in MMA comes from a frigging boxer who has never trained wing chun in his life….maybe you should train like him and not all those other wing chun guys that everyone seems to think s*ck?

First off, I didn't post the clip. Secondly I didn't say this is how Wing Chun should look or that it was even a good or fair example of Wing Chun. My original point was that for those from the Wing Chun community on here who seem to think chain punches have no place in fighting this is contrary evidence. My second post, the one you quoted, was aimed at those Wing Chun practitioners on this forum who are so fond of describing Wing Chun as a principle based art when it suits but then deride anything that doesn't come from their lineage or from a person in a kung fu suit even though it adheres to many of the principles. I find it highly amusing that folks change their perspectives depending upon the argument they're having so again still LOL. And no I won't be changing my training methods based on a single clip of a fighter, nor on the videos of any other fighters. I do however find footage of all types of fights educational .

[Vajramusti]

And?
I trained under Sunny Tang AND Nelson Chan AND also experienced first hand some of the other schools in the GTA area ( Toronto and Mississagua).
Never had a chance to train with Kennedy though ( Phils student/rep) and I regret that,but I also had a chance to train JKD and a couple of different teachers.
JKD was a better fit for me than WC, for what's worth.

My comment was simply that I think certain systems are better suited for certain people be it body type or temperment but perhaps more importantly, prior MA experience.
-------------------------------------------------------

Understandable-each journey has unique elements. Re And?? Just clarifying what kind of wing chun (Sunny Tang etc)
you were reacting to when you left wing chun.There are great variances in wing chun though folks sometimes repeatedly assert that it is a concept based art.Maybe some are some are not.

joy

[JPinAZ]

RE the clip in the first post, that was so sad. Here's what his sifu had to say about this on another one of their vids:

"Chan Man Kong didnt win BUT he had only one month of training and had NEVER done any martial arts before. he fought like hell and i was very proud of him. not many people have their first MMA fight after only one month of training. "

I feel sorry for that kid being thrown in there after only a month of training. I guess 'fighting like hell' means he went in there, didn't alnd a blow and got choked out in seconds..

Good luck for anyone that trains under that guy :eek:

[RonBlair]

RE the clip in the first post, that was so sad. Here's what his sifu had to say about this on another one of their vids:

"Chan Man Kong didnt win BUT he had only one month of training and had NEVER done any martial arts before. he fought like hell and i was very proud of him. not many people have their first MMA fight after only one month of training. "

I feel sorry for that kid being thrown in there after only a month of training. I guess 'fighting like hell' means he went in there, didn't alnd a blow and got choked out in seconds..

Good luck for anyone that trains under that guy :eek:

They're victims of the "let's be positive" movement. Fat kids aren't fat they're special. Mentally retarded is now special abled.

Half the time people just suk at what they do. Tell them they suked so they can improve.

[anerlich]

Better stop talking then guys

Good advice. I suggest you take it.

[anerlich]

And please read your own ego-infested comments before you sling mud my friend.

I did. Ego-infested? Really?

Put your yellow rain coat on, because the mud's going to keep coming.

[sanjuro_ronin]

-------------------------------------------------------

Understandable-each journey has unique elements. Re And?? Just clarifying what kind of wing chun (Sunny Tang etc)
you were reacting to when you left wing chun.There are great variances in wing chun though folks sometimes repeatedly assert that it is a concept based art.Maybe some are some are not.

joy

Yes, I agree.
Having read up on the different styles and seen more examples, I think that I MAY have found a better fit in Kulo WC for example.

[GlennR]

]
YJKYM?? in a fight are you serious? as for no wing chun punches, they were straight, the elbows were down, the fist vertical and they went to the jic seen of his opponent, his body weight was behind them but not over committed and he continually recycled the hands.

Im not looking for YJKYM per Se, but im looking for the WC typical structure that that stance leads to. I dont see it.

Look, he's hit Silva ,who's retreated rapidly, and to catch up with him he's had to square up his stance. He's then basically thrown left and right crosses to keep hitting him. The punches have started elbows in but at extension the elbows flare out and i think youll see the fists heading towards horizontal. You can also see his hip roll a touch on the side he connects with.

He's adapted his BOXING to suit..... well done to him


No they weren't wing chun punches because Belfort has never trained Wing Chun and of course because he didn't do the obligatory SNT form first or wear silly slippers or a pretty sash.

That a broadside at the WC world i general?


With regard to the techniques being the thing that defines the art, as I stated above there are no techniques that are unique to wing chun everything can be found somewhere else in a TCMA, Japanese MA or even JKD.

Wrong. Then why do the forms, san sik, chi-sao, spar etc? You are doing the techniques from WC which comply with the principles the style is adhering to.
Gee, i think ive been possessed be Terence! ;)


What makes an art individual is its philosophy and principles, the techniques are there because they fit into the thinking. Looking for perfect classroom techniques in a fight is like looking for the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. Anyway I think you're wrong, you think I'm wrong, its all a matter of opinion so we can agree to disagree.

Yep, i disagree with that as well. I see perfect technique all the time from other styles...... maybe WChunners of the world need to practice these more than principles and philosophies ;)

[Addiwei]

If your goal is to hit the other fighter with the hardest punch to knock him out, then your punch will look like a boxers punch. That typically is the goal in boxing or MMA therefore you see the same type oF punches in the ring.

If you want to measure the hardest impact of a punch or strike as being the best then NFL Linebackers are the best fighters in the world!

In kung fu, the goal may not be to land the strongest punch, but may be to lead a straight line in to grab, palm, choke, chop, pull, push, etc. If you don't have any training or knowledge in these other tools, how can you consider yourself a good fighter? You only know how to use the mechanism and flow of the entire body to throw sledgehammer punches. Nothing wrong with that. But what happens in 15 years when you want to distinguish pure physical and athletic ability with skill or kungfu? You might start to think "how can i fight smarter? Not harder?"