Satanic Boxing

[Ray Pina]

Can anyone tell me why this is on my punching bag? And why I didn't notice it till now?

[hskwarrior]

Can anyone tell me why this is on my punching bag? And why I didn't notice it till now?

Because you are Satan's Spawn......LOL.

[Faruq]

Alguien te puso una brujeria, brother. lol No, I don't see what you're asking about. It looks like a regular old Everlast to me, bro.

[goju]

Because the satanic illuminati own ever last too:eek:

[hskwarrior]

Because the satanic illuminati own ever last too

its really symbolic. it really means the illuminati will last forever.

[-N-]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/GOPlogo.jpg

[Jimbo]

Alguien te puso una brujeria, brother. lol No, I don't see what you're asking about. It looks like a regular old Everlast to me, bro.

He's referring to the stars, with the points downward.

[Drake]

I wanna start a cult, and pick some commonly used shape or symbol as our totem. Like.. a stop sign or something... so any time someone makes something that shares the same geometric shape, I can be like "See, that company shares our ideology!"

LONG LIVE TRIANGLES!!!! WOOOO!!

[Faruq]

He's referring to the stars, with the points downward.

Oh, I was unaware of their import. Unfortunately, it appears I'm the only one here on the forums who hasn't studied satanism. lol, just kidding. I didn't even notice the starts pointing down, or know that meant anything.

[Yao Sing]

Looks like a pentagram, a satanic symbol, but technically not.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Pentagram

It is curious why they are upside down, not random but consistantly so most likely on purpose.

[YouKnowWho]

I just bought my wife a MINI Countryman Cooper. When we decided to select the stripe on the car body, she found out that the stripe had a devil pitchfork in it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevipedia/5009806026/

http://www.clker.com/clipart-devil-pitchfork.html

[Faruq]

Wow, this stuff is pervasive! I'm gonna have to really bone up on my AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Alice Cooper and Blue Oyster Cult!

[-N-]

Tell her it's a tiger fork :)

[goju]

The pentacle pointing down did not originally signify "evil" You even saw both the upright and downward pointing star used by Christians so symbolize the five senses and the five wounds of christ

thus concludes the lesson:D

[TenTigers]

don't go by wikipedia. (the pentagram of Solomon Far predates christianity, btw)The inverted pentagram, Baphomet, goat's head, etc and any negative connotations ascribed to it came about in the inquisitions and later, especially in the early 1800's. Anton LeVey took the image to use for his church of satan, but that was in the,70's. It's not a demonic symbol at all.
Neither is the pentagram, which can symbolize man, with his feet upon the earth, head pointing towards God, embracing life.
Neither is the swastika.
Funny how the crucifix, a symbol of extreme physical torture and execution however....
oh nevermind..

[goju]

Heck even the upside down cross was a christian symbol originally

Its funny how people freak out over these things

[Hardwork108]

The best to sort this out is to find out wether the symbols in question have meaning as Freemason symbols. If they do, then BINGO.

There are Freemason logos in company symbols and other "government" organizations. It is the Mason way of saying that we are in control of these institutions. These characters (at least the higher level ones) do like to communicate in symbols.;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Heck even the upside down cross was a christian symbol originally

Its funny how people freak out over these things

Don't forget the fish symbol.

People like symbols, we are a visual animal.
http://images2.layoutsparks.com/1/115675/dark-sexy-pentagram-image-31000.jpg

[Lucas]

this is "satanic" inverse pentagram, as used by satanists, but it only means what you want it to mean. If i wanted it to mean I have a goat that likes stars, i could do that. but seeing as how htis is the symbols that satanists choose to use, i figure it applies just as much as any other symbol any other cult/religion wants to use.

http://www.masters-table.org/pagan/pentasatan.jpg
http://www.goth-witch.webspace.virginmedia.com/baphomet1.jpg

[Lucas]

and here is the lead singer from deicide, hes 100% satanic but i think hes pretty cool guy. he not scare anyting.

he brand an upside down cross into his fore head on stage!! crazy, but dedicated lol

http://sp2.fotolog.com/photo/18/45/74/megazombie/1236571736663_f.jpg

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhcdp1znDJ1qftsplo1_400.jpg

[Lucas]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/sni/lowres/snin252l.jpg

[Lucas]

what about jesus boxing??

http://thomas2026.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/jesus_kicks_ass.jpg

[Lucas]

LOL

http://www.lovethetruth.com/jis_images/satanist_clinton.jpg

[Lucas]

Really slow boring day at work....

just incase you guys were looking to convert haha

http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

[TenTigers]

LOL

http://www.lovethetruth.com/jis_images/satanist_clinton.jpg
that is "I love you " in sign.

[goju]

http://cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/3u/ue/eo/funny.jpg

[Lucas]

ya i know, but its funny anyway. also, this is wrong.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_50kvyPfr50k/TT-107nyEMI/AAAAAAAABwE/IIVZdBFKQxk/s1600/president-george-w-bush-hook-em-horns-hand-gesture.jpg

its like this;

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f3SZ5Tu916o/S8kpYFPxbBI/AAAAAAAAQeY/8Ngm94siHIw/s400/pat_robertson_devil_sign.jpg

the thing is, the thumb meets the ends of the fingers to form a 'goat head face' other wise its a 'rock on' or a 'i love you'

[Lucas]

http://cdn.pimpmyspace.org/media/pms/c/3u/ue/eo/funny.jpg


rofl!!!!!!

[TenTigers]

Really slow boring day at work....

just incase you guys were looking to convert haha

http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

"Magus" Anton Zsandor LeVey, was born Howard Levey, a jewish kid who grew up in LA, traveled with a carnival-and if you know carnies, you see how he grew up to be a con man who parlayed the spoiled, self-centered ideologies of the 70's "me generation" into a fortune.
There is actually, well at least until LeVey, no such thing as Satanism, a Satanic Church, etc.
The closest thing was the hellfire club, which was developed by aristocrats rebelling against the authority of the church. THEY invented the black mass, and THEY were the first to recite the lord's prayer backwards-really designed to shock the general church going public, rather than a serious worship of Satan.

[TenTigers]

ya i know, but its funny anyway. also, this is wrong.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_50kvyPfr50k/TT-107nyEMI/AAAAAAAABwE/IIVZdBFKQxk/s1600/president-george-w-bush-hook-em-horns-hand-gesture.jpg

its like this;

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f3SZ5Tu916o/S8kpYFPxbBI/AAAAAAAAQeY/8Ngm94siHIw/s400/pat_robertson_devil_sign.jpg

the thing is, the thumb meets the ends of the fingers to form a 'goat head face' other wise its a 'rock on' or a 'i love you'
well, if Pat Robertson is doing it, it is definitely devil's horns, because he is the antichrist.

[Lucas]

well, if Pat Robertson is doing it, it is definitely devil's horns, because he is the antichrist.

LOL!!!

i was slightly impressed i found that.

[TenTigers]

LOL!!!

i was slightly impressed i found that.
you most definitely earn cool points for that.:cool:

[Lucas]

"Magus" Anton Zsandor LeVey, was born Howard Levey, a jewish kid who grew up in LA, traveled with a carnival-and if you know carnies, you see how he grew up to be a con man who parlayed the spoiled, self-centered ideologies of the 70's "me generation" into a fortune.
There is actually, well at least until LeVey, no such thing as Satanism, a Satanic Church, etc.
The closest thing was the hellfire club, which was developed by aristocrats rebelling against the authority of the church. THEY invented the black mass, and THEY were the first to recite the lord's prayer backwards-really designed to shock the general church going public, rather than a serious worship of Satan.

in other words; POSEURS!!!!

[goju]

http://www.bestmotivationalposters.com/images/black-metal-funny-motivational-poster.jpg

[Lucas]

Pwnd!!!!!!!!

[GeneChing]

...I think I'm in some kind of cheesecake toxic shock.

Anyway, speaking of Anton Lavey, did I ever tell you I sold swords to him? Seriously.

I know I shouldn't post this, but it comes up when you do an image search for "Satanic Boxing".
http://wishididntknow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/oscar-de-la-hoya.jpg
Note that he's using everlast gear, which only bolsters Ray's concerns.

[taai gihk yahn]

The closest thing was the hellfire club, which was developed by aristocrats rebelling against the authority of the church. THEY invented the black mass, and THEY were the first to recite the lord's prayer backwards-really designed to shock the general church going public, rather than a serious worship of Satan.

yeah, those guys are awesome!

http://images.wikia.com/x-men/images/3/3d/282509-149370-hellfire-club_super.jpg

[Lebaufist]

There has been an undercurrent of satanism in this country and abroad since the turn of the 20th century. Although not formed as a satanist cult officially, groups connected with the likes of Alister Crowley openly channeled the ally of Satan, Aiwas.

P.S. Ray needs a shrink.

[TenTigers]

There has been an undercurrent of satanism in this country and abroad since the turn of the 20th century. Although not formed as a satanist cult officially, groups connected with the likes of Alister Crowley openly channeled the ally of Satan, Aiwas.

P.S. Ray needs a shrink.
Don't confuse High Magick with Satanism. Although the Church defines High Magick as devil worship, to would also do the same with Noi-Gung. Many forms of High Magick were paths to personal mastery of the self.
I am not saying that I subscribe to their beliefs, I am simply stating that you cannot go by one religion's definition of another's faith and beliefs. The Gods of one faith are the Devils of another.
But yeah, Ray needs a shrink.

[Drake]

Speaking of rock on and Crowley...




"MIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSTER CROWLEY *DUM!* *DUM!* *DUM!* What went down in your head?"

http://img.noiset.com/images/album/ozzy-osbourne-blizzard-of-ozz-cd-48956.jpeg

[Phil Redmond]

Alguien te puso una brujeria, brother. lol No, I don't see what you're asking about. It looks like a regular old Everlast to me, bro.
Estas hablando de las estrellas. Tiene que ir a la botanica pa' comprar un rompe saraguey. . jeje

[bawang]

pentagrams never offend anybody.

if u find muhammed on that everlast bag then we got a problem.

[Gru Bianca]

ya i know, but its funny anyway. also, this is wrong.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_50kvyPfr50k/TT-107nyEMI/AAAAAAAABwE/IIVZdBFKQxk/s1600/president-george-w-bush-hook-em-horns-hand-gesture.jpg

its like this;

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f3SZ5Tu916o/S8kpYFPxbBI/AAAAAAAAQeY/8Ngm94siHIw/s400/pat_robertson_devil_sign.jpg

the thing is, the thumb meets the ends of the fingers to form a 'goat head face' other wise its a 'rock on' or a 'i love you'

to add a bit of flavor to the meaning of that hand gesture, if you were to be in Italy and do it to someone you surely would get an unhappy reaction as it would imply you are suggesting the person is being cheated by his/her partner. No body like to wear the "green hat"

[mickey]

Greetings,

It upsets me dearly when you guys start to lose your way. Let me bring you back to the light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnTQk1dHLMI

Here is a live version of the above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqPLQnCIdH0

Now HEAL!!!! Heal!!!!! Come back to THE LIGHT!!

If that doesn't work,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osZT-5YOVk0


mickey

[goju]

There has been an undercurrent of satanism in this country and abroad since the turn of the 20th century. Although not formed as a satanist cult officially, groups connected with the likes of Alister Crowley openly channeled the ally of Satan, Aiwas.

P.S. Ray needs a shrink.

Youre joking right?:D

Crowley didnt practice anything satanic or remotely "evil" for the matter hell he influenced wicca and wiccans are a bunch of pacifist pot head hippies:D

Crowley's works were also heavily influenced by the kaballah and zen Buddhism among other things. He was also a notorious prankster who liked to say things to get a reaction from folks. Him being able to convince many people (to this day amusingly enough ) that he was some booga booga dark sorcerer is one of the greatest shams of all time.

His humor even extended to his works which many people cite as proof of how evil he was. The great human sacrifice as he called it for example was a tounge in cheek metaphor for refraining from sex during the ritual as it was believed the sexual energy was transmitted through both partners meditating rather than actually physically boinging.


while i dont subscribe to his beliefs his thelema is free from alot of the backwards nonsense that plagues many other faiths and largely promoted the main notion that through yoga and ritual one could find their true destiny in order to better themselves and society and all that fuzzy wuzzy stuff

hardly a terrifying notion.

[David Jamieson]

pentagrams never offend anybody.

if u find muhammed on that everlast bag then we got a problem.

^ This = lol

[Lebaufist]

But but but he wasn't reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaly dealing with dark forces. It was only one of many practices.

Wow, why did I expect an sense of accountability on a MA site?

[Ray Pina]

I cut those stars off and flipped them around.

To not see the influence of the occult in our movies, music, advertising, etc. is to be blinded by the obvious.

Stealth planes, satellites, nuclear bombs, the internet.... Steve Hawkins saying the Universe just arrived by itself without God. The idea that 360 million years ago dinosaurs ruled the world and then somehow monkeys evolved into modern man so quickly.:)

There is one God.

The practice of magic and the deception of people is an affront to God.

[Drake]

I cut those stars off and flipped them around.

To not see the influence of the occult in our movies, music, advertising, etc. is to be blinded by the obvious.

Stealth planes, satellites, nuclear bombs, the internet.... Steve Hawkins saying the Universe just arrived by itself without God. The idea that 360 million years ago dinosaurs ruled the world and then somehow monkeys evolved into modern man so quickly.:)

There is one God.

The practice of magic and the deception of people is an affront to God.

Oh boy...here we go....

[David Jamieson]

Oh boy...here we go....

I got popcorn soldier boy, you want some?

[TenTigers]

The practice of magic and the deception of people is an affront to God.


which God?



:eek::D:p


buttered kettle corn for me, thanks.

[Dale Dugas]

Taoism has two branches, the more religious one and the more shamanic and magickal.

Nothing wrong with Magic at all.

Black magic and curses and anything done to harm others is unacceptable.

To broadly paint anything as evil before one form of Deity is ignorant.

[bawang]

but without the occult, how you gain the ULTIMATE POWAH

[SoCo KungFu]

No such thing as god or satan or any other telepathic fairy being. No such thing as dark magic, light magic or any kind of magic other than the kind with mirrors and rabbits in hats.

Between the ridiculous conspiracy spooks and now this crap, this forum has turned to ****

[goju]

Wow, why did I expect an sense of accountability on a MA site?

Except he didn't Unless you consider Buddhism and the kaballah dark arts:D

Though who knows maybe satan did encourage yoga :rolleyes:

[Lebaufist]

Except he didn't Unless you consider Buddhism and the kaballah dark arts:D

Though who knows maybe satan did encourage yoga :rolleyes:

When used his way, why the heck not? Typical dichotomy. He didn't create either of those practices.

[bawang]

There is one God.


yes. his name is guan yu.

may he watch over us on his skull throne.

i pray to him every day in order to gain unlimited power

unliiiiimited poooooooower

[goju]

When used his way, why the heck not? Typical dichotomy. He didn't create either of those practices.

Uh theres evil yoga?:eek:


yes. his name is guan yu.

may he watch over us on his skull throne.

i pray to him every day in order to gain unlimited power

unliiiiimited poooooooower

satanist

[Scott R. Brown]

I feel honored to have been associated with so many know-it-alls for so many years!

I am comforted to know God exists and doesn't exist, cares and does not care, matters and does not matter, etc.

Carry on gentlemen, I hope to learn more!

[taai gihk yahn]

No such thing as dark magic, light magic or any kind of magic other than the kind with mirrors and rabbits in hats.
yeah, suuuuuuure there ain't...

http://homepages.uwp.edu/martinm0/chartresR.jpg

clearly an indication that you are missing the obvious right in front of you...:rolleyes:

BTW, for anyone who thinks the whole idea of arguing w someone about make-believe sky-daddies is just silly from an a priori perspective, here's a little hook upon which to hang ur intellectual hat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theological_noncognitivism

[taai gihk yahn]

I cut those stars off and flipped them around.
of course you did Ray; of course you did...:rolleyes:


To not see the influence of the occult in our movies, music, advertising, etc. is to be blinded by the obvious.
and which "occult" would this be now? and when u say "infuence" what do u mean by that?


Stealth planes, satellites, nuclear bombs, the internet.... Steve Hawkins saying the Universe just arrived by itself without God. The idea that 360 million years ago dinosaurs ruled the world and then somehow monkeys evolved into modern man so quickly.:)
Ray, this is just sloppy reasoning and completely lacks any intellectual rigor; you personally may not care for or understand the concepts behind something like evolution, but that doesn't mean that they are invalid; if you don't agree w Hawkin's, then demonstrate specifically why he is wrong (refute his evidence) and then provide your own; if you can't do that, then you have no capacity to make a point about the above


There is one God.
first, please define what you mean by "god" and then please provide a shred of evidence to support that this entity exists; only after that can you begin to argue for this entity's exclusivity...


The practice of magic and the deception of people is an affront to God.
The posting of stupidity and depreciation of intelligence is an affront to humanity.

[Lucas]

Time is the fourth dimension. (or one of them I suppose it could be 5th, 6th or what ever if it has to get in line.) every satellite that runs our cell phones operates with precise programming to account for the extremely minor time delay every one operates in. When man kind is capable of reaching near light speeds we will be able to jump out of the current time stream and isolate ourselves into a slower stream. Depending on how close we get to light speed, will determine how much time will have passed in addition to what we traveling have lived. Once you get up to 99% of the speed of light, the calculations show quite a significant decrease in the amount that you are effected by the time stream. Making travel to the future quite real. However there is an element of severe paradox when we look at the possibility of traveling backwards in time. Making that theoretically impossible.

We were talking about time travel, right?

[bawang]

if i could travel back in time, i would give aks to the boxer rebels. then i rule as king of my own magical kung fu kingdom. (no whities allowed)

[Fa Xing]

There is one God.

The problem is that there were several "God"'s in the Judeo-Islamic-Christian Traditions. Plus if this is true, than why did this "one God" only reveal itself to one people and not the whole world?

I usually have no problems with what people belief in, but I will never understand the need for people to expose their beliefs to everyone else. It always seemed a personal matter to me, and more about one's own development.

[hskwarrior]

if i could travel back in time, i would give aks to the boxer rebels. then i rule as king of my own magical kung fu kingdom. (no whities allowed)

your magical kingdom will be overthroned by boxer rebels rebelling using their boxing for generations to come......you should have aks sumbawdee

[Lebaufist]

Uh theres evil yoga?:eek:

There are no evil guns either.

Don't think for a minute that I am a bible thumping fool, like ray. I know very well what Frater Perdurabo was all about.

[Lebaufist]

For a Christian, Ray spends an inordinate amount of time looking for Satan.

It must be nice to live with such certainty. Arrogant as all that is. :rolleyes:

[TenTigers]

I think some Christians spend way too much time dwelling on the negative, Satan, condemning others, etc
Instead of focusing on spirituality, love and goodwill.
Now, how did that ever happen?

[goju]

Don't think for a minute that I am a bible thumping fool, like ray.ut.

Your exhibiting the same sort of superstition and paranoia that someone like ray does however.

To this day there is no conclusive evidence Crowley was involved in anything evil. In his philosophical works or from any writings of people who happened to encounter him. He was merely a harmless man interested in spirituality.

The only so called evidence springs from the same websites that say our government officials are lizards who eat babies in a shrine underneath the white house.:rolleyes: Why do you think that is?


its quite amazing how hearsay can so strongly interweave itself into peoples minds and convince them of anything. It shows how gullible people can be

also the whole satanic nonsense is silly. In the book of job he was merely one of gods angels sent to test men. He did not rebel and roamthe pits of hell torturing countless republicans and all that gobbledegook.

Many of the common notions about satan we have today sprang up from people who could not translate the semetic languages properly and from crack pots like st paul who used fear to control his followers.

[hskwarrior]

Antagonist = satan

Protagonist = GOD

Religion Sounds like one mans story..........

Religion is restrictive. Oppressive. Judgmental. This is not God, G.A.O.T.U., or our higher power.

RELIGION IS NOT FOR ME.

[TenTigers]

also the whole satanic nonsense is silly. In the book of job he was merely one of gods angels sent to test men. He did not rebel and roamthe pits of hell torturing countless republicans and all that gobbledegook.

Many of the common notions about satan we have today sprang up from people who could not translate the semetic languages properly and from crack pots like st paul who used fear to control his followers.
exactly. Where do you think the term,"Devil's advocate" comes from?
You take the opposite viewpoint and challenge the person in order for him to strengthen his argument. In the case of Satan-he challenges man's spirituality in order to strengthen his resolve, thus strengthening his relation with God.
Therefore, Satan was created by God, for the good of all mankind.

If you take the viewpoint that God is ALL POWERFUL, created the heavens and earth, ALL LIFE, then he must also have created Satan, and is more powerful. Well, there must have been a reason, and if for some reason God fu(ked up, then he can destroy Stan at will, yes?
If you buy one, then you have to buy into the whole theory.
Ya can't pick and choose, and then start quoting scripture to fit in with your beliefs.

[Drake]

I just find it interesting that someone would vandalize their own equipment because it vaguely resembles a reference to something. Might as well yank out all of your home's inner workings that resemble an upside down cross too.

[hskwarrior]

I just find it interesting that someone would vandalize their own equipment because it vaguely resembles a reference to something.

come on, you're talkin about Ray Pina here.....LMAO... nothing seems quite right in regards to him LMAO

[taai gihk yahn]

exactly. Where do you think the term,"Devil's advocate" comes from?
Satan's attorney?
(and that may b redundant, I'm not sure...)

[taai gihk yahn]

I just find it interesting that someone would vandalize their own equipment because it vaguely resembles a reference to something. Might as well yank out all of your home's inner workings that resemble an upside down cross too.

yeah - I mean, also, wudn't it hav been much easier to just black out the stars w a sharpie? or cover them w duct tape? lolol

[taai gihk yahn]

We were talking about time travel, right?
no, but we will be in a day or so...

[Hebrew Hammer]

What do Catholic Priests usually give for sodomy?

Milk and cookies.

No offense, some of my best friends have been sodomized, I love my Catholic brothers and sisters.

[bawang]

catholics worship ishtar in the form of mary. they also worship the roman and greek pantheon in the form of saints. mexican catholics worship the snake godess of guadalupe.

catholics eat fish on a fasting day.

the only true christians are jehovahs witnesses.

[Yoshiyahu]

don't go by wikipedia. (the pentagram of Solomon Far predates christianity, btw)The inverted pentagram, Baphomet, goat's head, etc and any negative connotations ascribed to it came about in the inquisitions and later, especially in the early 1800's. Anton LeVey took the image to use for his church of satan, but that was in the,70's. It's not a demonic symbol at all.
Neither is the pentagram, which can symbolize man, with his feet upon the earth, head pointing towards God, embracing life.
Neither is the swastika.
Funny how the crucifix, a symbol of extreme physical torture and execution however....
oh nevermind..

The Crucifix...Was a symbol of Tammuz before it became a Christian Symbol


http://www.albatrus.org/english/religions/pagan/images/pagans_with_crosses.jpg

[Ray Pina]

which God?




The one God.

[Ray Pina]

Taoism has two branches, the more religious one and the more shamanic and magickal.

Nothing wrong with Magic at all.

Black magic and curses and anything done to harm others is unacceptable.

To broadly paint anything as evil before one form of Deity is ignorant.

The idea that charms and idols and incantations have real power is man's attempt to be like God, instead of glorifying God and His glory.

[bawang]

what the hell is God?


i know El. i know Yaohu. i dont know some "God".

[Ray Pina]

yes. his name is guan yu.

may he watch over us on his skull throne.

i pray to him every day in order to gain unlimited power

unliiiiimited poooooooower

.... and you live at home with your mom?

[bawang]

you dont even know the name of your god. you just call him god. who doesnt know the name of his parents? is that respectful?

[Ray Pina]

what the hell is God?


i know El. i know Yaohu. i dont know some "God".

Names are only our labels.

Maybe be less arrogant and you will get to know God.

[bawang]

maybe you could be less of a antisemite and call your own god by his real name.

[Ray Pina]

Plus if this is true, than why did this "one God" only reveal itself to one people and not the whole world?

Has not the whole world heard Genesis, the story of the flood, Moses and Egypt, the covenants, Jesus?

[bawang]

who the hell is moses? jeesahs? i only know Moseh, and Yaohushua, the lion of Yahuda.

[Ray Pina]

maybe you could be less of a antisemite and call your own god by his real name.

I don't need to voice myself to commune with my God. My God knows my will, desire, needs, thanks, gratitude, goods, bads before I do.

My God is not limited to my human, earthly understanding.

[bawang]

you do know Yaohu will punish all you Roman Christians for killing his Yahudi children right?

the aspostle Yahuhan clearly described in his scroll of end days that only Yahudi will go to the sky city.

[Scott R. Brown]

The problem is that there were several "God"'s in the Judeo-Islamic-Christian Traditions. Plus if this is true, than why did this "one God" only reveal itself to one people and not the whole world?

I usually have no problems with what people belief in, but I will never understand the need for people to expose their beliefs to everyone else. It always seemed a personal matter to me, and more about one's own development.

But aren't you exposing us to your beliefs too?

I need to invent an aerosol belif-icide spray to protect me from all you peoples' beliefs!!!!


Many of the common notions about satan we have today sprang up from people who could not translate the semetic languages properly and from crack pots like st paul who used fear to control his followers.

And Dante Alighieri!!


Antagonist = satan

Protagonist = GOD

Religion Sounds like one mans story..........

Religion is restrictive. Oppressive. Judgmental. This is not God, G.A.O.T.U., or our higher power.

RELIGION IS NOT FOR ME.

Depends upon what religion you are speaking about! Mostly it is the people involved in the religion and NOT the religion itself.


If you buy one, then you have to buy into the whole theory.
Ya can't pick and choose, and then start quoting scripture to fit in with your beliefs.

Sure you can. People cherry pick what they like and ignore what they don't like all the time!


yeah - I mean, also, wudn't it hav been much easier to just black out the stars w a sharpie? or cover them w duct tape? lolol

Or add more stars and a moon and a super nova or two and just make it an astronomical mural!:D


The one God.

Which ONE?:confused:

[Lucas]

are you a cylon???

[Scott R. Brown]

are you a cylon???

Am I from Ceylon?

Am I a Cyclone?:confused::confused:

[Lucas]

A FRACKING CYLON!! (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=FRACKING+CYLON&l=1)

[taai gihk yahn]

The one God.

I see your one and raise you 37...

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110413192210/marveldatabase/images/1/1c/Asgardians_003.jpg

[Scott R. Brown]

A FRACKING CYLON!! (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=FRACKING+CYLON&l=1)

Ahhhhh......I guess I am just not hep to you young whipper-snappers' fancy-shmancy ways!!!:p

[Scott R. Brown]

I see your one and raise you 37...

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110413192210/marveldatabase/images/1/1c/Asgardians_003.jpg

Which one is you???:eek:

[Lucas]

hes the wolf with the helmet on.

[Scott R. Brown]

hes the wolf with the helmet on.

I see, the canine magneto........NEATO!!!!

[Lucas]

he has an over developed exposed frontal lobe, so he wears a helmet to keep it warm and safe.

[TenTigers]

I'm the hot chik with the nice boobies.



I mean, no..I'm the big strong, scary dude...

[Scott R. Brown]

I am the handsome one all the wimins are swooning over!:cool:

[Lucas]

just to bring it back on topic, I'm the guy that looks like SATAN!!! :eek:

[diego]

A FRACKING CYLON!! (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=FRACKING+CYLON&l=1)

how do you work that let me google **** for you page?. that's hilarious

[Ray Pina]

"Though shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in the heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Though shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them...."

[Yoshiyahu]

you do know Yaohu will punish all you Roman Christians for killing his Yahudi children right?

the aspostle Yahuhan clearly described in his scroll of end days that only Yahudi will go to the sky city.

Shalown Achi, Yahuah Barak Atah...


Lol they dont know Abraham, Yishaq and Yaaqob(Yisrael).

They know Baal and Satan but not Yahushua, Mosheh and or Shaul!

[Ray Pina]

If our lawmakers and leaders (rulers) are corrupted by corporations and the military industrial complex; if they control the drug, weapons and human slave industries to fund their “National Security” crimes … are we not then The Evil Empire?

Are we not the faceless occupiers of the Death Star?

…. pushing buttons and pulling levers?

And who would rise up against such a force? Terrorists?

The Taliban won’t let their people hear our satanic music or watch our pornography so we kill them, until they will.

But we’ve always profited from their opium.

Commandment No. 1 to ground troops: “Don’t touch the poppy!”

Ahmed Wali Karzai is on the Freedom Train….100% CIA mind-controlled.

Get on board! Choo-Choo!

The Patriot Act….. Ho! Ho!

…hot sushi for Alexander Valterovich Litvinenko

Benazir Bhutto was bound to blow…So uncreative.

I’d leave it at that but my agent says I got to expound. Can’t take for granted that people retain what they hear in the news.

She says I can’t be so harsh labeling these girls as *****s…. What’s a couple sex tapes?

Who cares if Jesus was replaced by Santa and a red nosed reindeer and ultimately stampede killer sales on Black Friday.

… there will be a Macy’s in Libya soon.

We dragged their king off his thrown and killed him in a back alley like a small time thug.

Egypt is free now but they’re stomping their women in the streets; tearing their burkas off

…. who needs strip clubs?

Drive down the block. Get a snack in the mall.


Ass is everywhere! And it’s getting cheaper by the day!

The Arabs and Chinese are already importing our daughters

Don’t believe me?

Google up an escort in any international city

Where are all our children going…why do we waste the potential advertising space on the milk cartons? We know exactly where they’re going …

They’re falling apart in schools. They’re escaping underground sex dungeons and telling their story on CNN.

Cassie Bernall died in Columbine because she wouldn’t denounce God to Klebold and Harris.

It’s the details…. like there’s no footage of a plane crashing into the Pentagon on Sept. 11th.

The most secure place on the ****ing planet…. no footage?

It’s actually comical….

The banks take our bail out money and give themselves raises.

Have they decided to official frame Julian Assange for rape yet? What are they waiting for?

Where did he go?

I bet he got a good talking to. I bet his mind has been doing loop de loops.

When he comes out: certifiable Freedom Train!

They’re going to free all of us. You just wait and see.

Those songs and jingles in your mind…. Who put them there?

Do you hear half the things that come out of your mouth?

Do you see the images on our TV?

Our leaders are raping boys and playing footsie in airport bathroom stalls.

Bohemian Grove BBQs

Turn those stars upside down.

[bawang]

Shalown Achi, Yahuah Barak Atah...


Lol they dont know Abraham, Yishaq and Yaaqob(Yisrael).

They know Baal and Satan but not Yahushua, Mosheh and or Shaul!

exactly man.

he knows the name of the devil, but doesnt know the name of god. its easy to see who he really respects.

[Lucas]

how do you work that let me google **** for you page?. that's hilarious

i know I love that thing. Funny enough, just Google ; "let me Google that for you."

It'll be the first hit, go there and do your search, then at the bottome it gives you a link to copy.

Have fun!!

[wenshu]

http://www.geekologie.com/2011/12/02/animated-comic-2.gif

[Ray Pina]

.............

[Drake]

Ahmed Wali Karzai is on the Freedom Train….100% CIA mind-controlled.

AWK is dead, dude. Don't know where you've been. He was buried in Garz this past summer. He was screwing with the wrong people, and it wasn't the CIA.

And we are actively engaged in poppy eradication... again, don't know what you are talking about.

[Hebrew Hammer]

Ray, the world would be a lot less threatening for you, if you just learned to walk on your hands...enjoy the view....its all perspective.

Bruce Lee is the Devil.

[Fa Xing]

Has not the whole world heard Genesis, the story of the flood, Moses and Egypt, the covenants, Jesus?

No, actually, the whole world has not.

The fact of the matter is this: religion is a creation of man, god(s) are a creation of man, and not the other way around. The burden of proving your so-called "one true god" exists rests with you and others like you.

[Fa Xing]

But aren't you exposing us to your beliefs too?

Nah, it's more of an opinion, and less of a belief. Unlike more religious adherents, I'd be okay if no one shared that opinion.

But I know how much you love your circular arguments :p.

[Ray Pina]

The burden of proving your so-called "one true god" exists rests with you and others like you.

You are not my friends and family..... let those who have eyes to see, see.

Believe what you want.

[Yoshiyahu]

exactly man.

he knows the name of the devil, but doesnt know the name of god. its easy to see who he really respects.

lol sad sad but true!

[Ray Pina]

And we are actively engaged in poppy eradication... again, don't know what you are talking about.

We're actively engaged in a lot of things.

Don't you find it odd that I can go get crack cocaine, heroine anywhere, but its nearly impossible to get a Cuban cigar?

Why can we prevent cigars crossing the border but we can't prevent coke subs or tunnels from Mexico? We have the sonar and under ground mapping capabilities.

Don't believe the hype.... AWK got one to the chest and one to the head from his body guard. Choo. Choo.

[Scott R. Brown]

Nah, it's more of an opinion, and less of a belief. Unlike more religious adherents, I'd be okay if no one shared that opinion.

But I know how much you love your circular arguments :p.

An opinion is a reflection of belief! When one expresses an opinion they are telling others about their beliefs. :p

For example: Your opinion that I love circular arguments means that you BELIEVE I love circular arguments, whether I truly love them or not is immaterial to your BELIEF.;)

Even the belief that you are okay if no one shares your opinion implies an attitude/belief of superiority over those that insist that others should share their opinions/beliefs, which paradoxically may be considered just as an immovable opinion/belief as these others to which you refer!:eek::p

It is no different than stating, "I don't like inflexible people!" The statement itself is an inflexible position! So to be rational, true to the statement, this person would have to dislike themselves, which they commonly do not. Which then demonstrates that the opinion/belief held is just as irrational as the inflexible people that are initially being criticized!

[Hebrew Hammer]

We're actively engaged in a lot of things.

Don't you find it odd that I can go get crack cocaine, heroine anywhere, but its nearly impossible to get a Cuban cigar?

Why can we prevent cigars crossing the border but we can't prevent coke subs or tunnels from Mexico? We have the sonar and under ground mapping capabilities.

Don't believe the hype.... AWK got one to the chest and one to the head from his body guard. Choo. Choo.

You aren't looking hard enough for the cuban cigars...they come through Mexico quite regularly.

[Lokhopkuen]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4IqAMwAGn1w/SmiBu20J7iI/AAAAAAAARqQ/xBuvN9FeMaA/s400/buddha.jpg.jpeg
Satanic kung fu ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

[TenTigers]

You aren't looking hard enough for the cuban cigars...they come through Mexico quite regularly.
and Canada, and the UK. My teacher used to get cubanos shipped to him regularly from the UK. They would come without the labels, and he would send the labels separately. He would get Montis, Romeos, Cohibas, mostly.

[Drake]

We're actively engaged in a lot of things.

Don't you find it odd that I can go get crack cocaine, heroine anywhere, but its nearly impossible to get a Cuban cigar?

Why can we prevent cigars crossing the border but we can't prevent coke subs or tunnels from Mexico? We have the sonar and under ground mapping capabilities.

Don't believe the hype.... AWK got one to the chest and one to the head from his body guard. Choo. Choo.

So...you deviated from the point, brought up something utterly unrelated... yet seem to agree that your own statement is wrong, somehow by stating another topic entirely. WEIRD. Was that a gamble on whether or not I'd actually read what you wrote? Stay away from Vegas.

[Ray Pina]

I don't understand what you're arguing about.


Are you saying AWK was not a heroin kingpin?

that there is no footage of our troops walking through poppy fields?

All these guys get killed sooner or later. They know to much.

[Ray Pina]

If no young men would kill strangers on orders of old men there would be world peace.

[omarthefish]

We're actively engaged in a lot of things.

Don't you find it odd that I can go get crack cocaine, heroine anywhere, but its nearly impossible to get a Cuban cigar?

Why can we prevent cigars crossing the border but we can't prevent coke subs or tunnels from Mexico? We have the sonar and under ground mapping capabilities.

.
That's pretty easy actually. There's just not a lot of demand for Cuban Cigar's compared to crack cocaine. If folks were addicted to Cuban's like they are to crack or heroine...I mean sell the house, lose your job, family and friends and whatever else it takes to fill that need...if there was that kind of demand for Cuban cigars, I'm sure they'd be available down on the corner just like the other stuff.

[Drake]

I don't understand what you're arguing about.


Are you saying AWK was not a heroin kingpin?

that there is no footage of our troops walking through poppy fields?

All these guys get killed sooner or later. They know to much.

You are guessing from television footage from your American home and lifestyle. I guarantee you don't know anything about how any of this works, because you don't have access.

AWK WAS a narcotics kingpin, and we were watching him closely. You'll never see our reports or our assessments of him, so you are watsing your time trying to make calls on what we really thought. Ultimately, he was very helpful for stabilization. As for poppy eradication, do you know there is a very specific time in which to eradicate the crops? Too soon or too late, and you've wasted your time.

Again, you don't understand tribal demographics, you have this western idealism that we are going to find a sparkly clean Afghan here (and there are none) and we can't just walk out there and burn every poppy field to the ground. That's not even feasible with our troop strength.

You are ignorant and naive when it comes to this country, but it's to be expected. Everyone else seems to be too.

You are using western thinking on a Pashtun problem. You'll be better off beating your head against a wall than trying to understand.

[Lokhopkuen]

I'm fairly certain most of us don't even want to know your level of know, but we do appreciate you being there, standing ready and doing what it takes to keep us safe here at home.;).

Some close bro's from Fort Lewis rotated out of there right about the same time you were deployed, they lost a few good men.

Be safe.

[Drake]

Yeah, it's a different fight than Iraq, that's for sure.

[Ray Pina]

The reasons are all the same..... Greed

The technique to get everyone on board the same.... lies (WMD, Pat Tillman, Jessica Lynch, A Muslin force that hates freedom)

[Drake]

Why is the US spending money trying to solve a Pashtun problem?

Ever hear of WikiLeaks? Troops are given orders and what they need to know. Which is usually where to point and shoot. Where to march. Where to go and when. When they can go home, etc.

We're in Afgan for its resources. Just like the Russians were. Just the reason China is moving in.

If you want to place some patriotic reason behind it, to justify what we're doing there... whatever helps you sleep at night.

Going back on topic: Though Shall Not Kill!!!!!!!

Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Also, Though Shall Not Bare False Witness.......... WMD anybody? The lie of Pat Tillman's death?The fake rescue of Jessica Lynch?

Isn't that something.... a ditch digger civilian killer calling a dean's list grad ignorant.

Isn't is something that this "ditch digger civilian killer" is starting his dissertation this year? I have a masters degree, graduated Summa Cum Laude with my bachelors, and will have my doctorate within two or three years. What about you?

Again, your comments reflect your ignorance. What resources are we actively exporting from Afghanistan? And why is it, like any good conspiracy theorist, you omit a ton of pertinent facts to push your blatant presumptuous guesswork?

These IEDs aren't setting themselves. And those small arms attacks aren't being done by ghosts. Did you forget that there was about 100~ TB who attacked an outpost on the border recently? Who's ambushing Arctic Wolves in Panjwai? Who's shooting at the FOBs in Zharay? Who led the complex VBIED/SAF attack in Uruzgan? Who killed COL Khan Mohammad? Who is launching rockets at KAF? Bagram? Who set off a VBIED inside of KAF? Who is attacking the ABP in Spin Boldak? Who is responsible for the attacks in Herat? Farah? Helmand? Who is firing the 82mm recoilless rifles? CIA must be a mighty large organization to pull all that off. That or these are some hard core farmers.

Yeah, let me guess... just like when you can't figure something out in life, you attribute god, and just like when you are too stupid and culturally ignorant to understand the world, you atribute it to the good ol' USA, because that's all you know.

Nothing devalues the Deans List more than when someone who cuts up their heavy bags and makes ignorant statements about a world they don't understand gets on it. I'm sure your degree was completely relevant to the topic too.

[Fa Xing]

An opinion is a reflection of belief! When one expresses an opinion they are telling others about their beliefs. :p

For example: Your opinion that I love circular arguments means that you BELIEVE I love circular arguments, whether I truly love them or not is immaterial to your BELIEF.;)

Even the belief that you are okay if no one shares your opinion implies an attitude/belief of superiority over those that insist that others should share their opinions/beliefs, which paradoxically may be considered just as an immovable opinion/belief as these others to which you refer!:eek::p

It is no different than stating, "I don't like inflexible people!" The statement itself is an inflexible position! So to be rational, true to the statement, this person would have to dislike themselves, which they commonly do not. Which then demonstrates that the opinion/belief held is just as irrational as the inflexible people that are initially being criticized!

And now I need an aspirin...:o

[Ray Pina]

Again, your comments reflect your ignorance. What resources are we actively exporting from Afghanistan? And why is it, like any good conspiracy theorist, you omit a ton of pertinent facts to push your blatant presumptuous guesswork?

$1 trillion in copper, gold, iron, cobalt and lithium, according to joint studies by Pentagon and US Geological Survey

Also very strategically located to China's western boarder/Russia


Who's ambushing Arctic Wolves in Panjwai? Who's shooting at the FOBs in Zharay? Who led the complex VBIED/SAF attack in Uruzgan? .....

The people who live in the country that we invaded.

They're not shooting Americans on 5th Ave. They're shooting American occupiers.

I wish you well and respect the danger you face in your line of work. Personally, because of my beliefs, I could not follow orders that occasionally result in the death of innocence. I could not justify killing men, women and children in their home land as self defense/National Security. You choose to put on your uniform for pay. You choose to pick up the rifle. You choose to pull the trigger.

Don't loose your humanity in support of the team you happen to be born into. Live up to higher, universal standard..... choose life. Choose peace.

[Drake]

$1 trillion in copper, gold, iron, cobalt and lithium, according to joint studies by Pentagon and US Geological Survey

Also very strategically located to China's western boarder/Russia



The people who live in the country that we invaded.

They're not shooting Americans on 5th Ave. They're shooting American occupiers.

I wish you well and respect the danger you face in your line of work. Personally, because of my beliefs, I could not follow orders that occasionally result in the death of innocence. I could not justify killing men, women and children in their home land as self defense/National Security. You choose to put on your uniform for pay. You choose to pick up the rifle. You choose to pull the trigger.

Don't loose your humanity in support of the team you happen to be born into. Live up to higher, universal standard..... choose life. Choose peace.

And you choose to generalize. Again, you are attempting to sound knowledgeable, and most Americans, you included, have no idea of what is really going on here. Did you conveniently forget that Mullah Omar facilitated Bin Laden's plan to attack the US? Or did you forget that the Taliban refused to hand him over? Or maybe you forgot that the TB are over here castrating people, shooting them dead in the streets, used to stone people over in the soccer field just a kilometer or so from where I'm typing this? They still hold shadow courts, executing people without a trial.

Yet you CHOOSE to villainize the US, though we are building schools, training their police, rebuilding their roads, and rebuilding their infrastructure.

Funny how I went from a "ditch digging civilian killer" to you "wishing me well"? I would never kill a civilian. It's a violation of orders, a violation of Geneva Conventions, and punishable by UCMJ. Yet that's the way you see us, and somehow, judging others is cool with your beliefs. So is prideful bragging, apparently. So is defending murderous taliban, because you seem to think these guys were just friendly, western thinking folks before we got here.

Oh, and that estimate isn't much considering what we've spent, and considering that we have yet to export any.

[Scott R. Brown]

And now I need an aspirin...:o

Is that an opinion, or a belief?:p:D

[omarthefish]

$1 trillion in copper, gold, iron, cobalt and lithium, according to joint studies by Pentagon and US Geological Survey

Also very strategically located to China's western boarder/Russia

It's actually on the Chines border but the outer border of Xinjiang is hardly of any strategic use to the US. You'd me far better served by looking at what's west of Afghanistan. I had some Serbian acquaintances back in the late 90's telling me all the time how we were going to be invading some place just east of the Black and Caspian seas. We've been systematically surrounding the region for 10-15 years. It's not enough to control Iran and Iraq. You need to protect the pipelines leading north out of the region. To the west we have Turkey, an ally. On the east . . .

So from where I sit, it's all about oil....again. :(

p.s.
I was skeptical back in '99-'00 about the "need" for an invasion of some place east of the Caspian sea but changed my mind on 9-11. Incidentally: Caspian-Sea-oil-find-could-be-biggest-this-year.(2011) (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/oilandgas/8279444/Caspian-Sea-oil-find-could-be-biggest-this-year.html) I've been arguing this was about Caspian sea oil ever since we first invaded. After all, besides it being "news" in 2011, it was well known even in 2000. (http://www.infoplease.com/spot/caspianoil1.html)

[Ray Pina]

Or maybe you forgot that the TB are over here castrating people, shooting them dead in the streets, used to stone people over in the soccer field just a kilometer or so from where I'm typing this? They still hold shadow courts, executing people without a trial.

We just executed an American with a drone without a trial.

We are holding countless people without charging or trying them.

We have castrated, electro shocked, mutilated, killed many in our MK Ultra mind control and chemical weapons programs.....

Remember Iran Contra? Our government and military arming terrorists in Central America and bringing back cocaine.....Semper Fi.


you CHOOSE to villainize the US, though we are building schools, training their police, rebuilding their roads, and rebuilding their infrastructure.


Its not just the US. Any man who takes up arms to kill his fellow human being is the villain.

We dropped two atomic bombs on civilian cities and them helped them rebuild. We're becoming good friends with Vietnam now. We let Native Americans have their casinos after nearly wiping them out.

These people don't need our education. That Christopher Columbus wasn't a raping murderer? That the constitution signers owned slaves?

They don't need our roads. They don't have to get to the mall. They've been around longer than us.

That's the whole point. We Christian Americans have lost God. Those people still have a respect and fear of God. They're willing to fight and know they'll die but they know they're fighting an evil.

We have no business killing anyone anywhere, especially beyond our borders.

Do your job. Protect yourself and your comrades. But don't act like you're doing these people a favor. Even here in Puerto Rico, there is an underlying hate for the American machine. It provides money but has robbed the island of its dignity, and they feel it.

Oppression is the result of those willing to oppress. The murdered are from those who are willing to kill.

[Drake]

If you think that your way of life can remain safe, and your family would not be either under a tyrant's boot, or drug out and raped in front of you... without someone willing to kill someone on YOUR behalf, you are either delusional or naive. You think the US got where it was by a friendly game of cricket with an oppressive British king? Maybe we could have "talked Hitler out of it"? Maybe Pol Pot just needed a hug?

The problem is that you've been protected from these evils for so long, you forget how easy it is to blow up your way of life.

Believe it or not, there are people out there, right now, who would be more than happy to cut your head off on television, regardless of how much "brotherly love" you offer them.

There are $%#^ing evil people out there, and I am more than happy to snuff them out before they hurt more people. Because there are too many cowards who hide behind some misguided nonsense of pacifism, thinking nobody will hurt them or theirs, as long as they are nice and friendly. Yeah. Good luck with that.

[TenTigers]

why do followers of John call themselves Christians?

[Scott R. Brown]

why do followers of John call themselves Christians?

Do you mean followers of Paul? Christians are mostly Paulists.

Paul stated he was an apostle of Christ, and so did John for that matter, they attributed their views to Christ, therefore Christians! Problem solved!:p

[TenTigers]

Do you mean followers of Paul? Christians are mostly Paulists.

Paul stated he was an apostle of Christ, and so did John for that matter, they attributed their views to Christ, therefore Christians! Problem solved!:p
ok, "Apostlists," then.:D

[Scott R. Brown]

ok, "Apostlists," then.:D

Except that they were Apostles OF Christ, not Apostles of Apostle!:p

[Lucas]

If you think that your way of life can remain safe, and your family would not be either under a tyrant's boot, or drug out and raped in front of you... without someone willing to kill someone on YOUR behalf, you are either delusional or naive. You think the US got where it was by a friendly game of cricket with an oppressive British king? Maybe we could have "talked Hitler out of it"? Maybe Pol Pot just needed a hug?

The problem is that you've been protected from these evils for so long, you forget how easy it is to blow up your way of life.

Believe it or not, there are people out there, right now, who would be more than happy to cut your head off on television, regardless of how much "brotherly love" you offer them.

There are $%#^ing evil people out there, and I am more than happy to snuff them out before they hurt more people. Because there are too many cowards who hide behind some misguided nonsense of pacifism, thinking nobody will hurt them or theirs, as long as they are nice and friendly. Yeah. Good luck with that.

the sword that takes life can also be the sword that gives life.

[Scott R. Brown]

the sword that takes life can also be the sword that gives life.

Someone's been reading Takuan!

[Fa Xing]

Someone's been reading Takuan!

I thought that looked familiar when I read his post. It's required reading for JKD practitioners (or at least it should be).

[Scott R. Brown]

I thought that looked familiar when I read his post. It's required reading for JKD practitioners (or at least it should be).

I agree, but few would understand it completely I think.

[Fa Xing]

I agree, but few would understand it completely I think.

I still don't, and have read it at least twice. I should read it again.

[Scott R. Brown]

I still don't, and have read it at least twice. I should read it again.

A couple of things would be helpful, familiarize yourself a bit more with the biography of Takuan, the principles of Zen/Ch'an, and also read the family writings and history of the Yagyu Clan.;)

[taai gihk yahn]

Except that they were Apostles OF Christ, not Apostles of Apostle!:p

Christicles?

[omarthefish]

If you think that your way of life can remain safe, and your family would not be either under a tyrant's boot, or drug out and raped in front of you... without someone willing to kill someone on YOUR behalf, you are either delusional or naive. You think the US got where it was by a friendly game of cricket with an oppressive British king? Maybe we could have "talked Hitler out of it"? Maybe Pol Pot just needed a hug?

The problem is that you've been protected from these evils for so long, you forget how easy it is to blow up your way of life.

Believe it or not, there are people out there, right now, who would be more than happy to cut your head off on television, regardless of how much "brotherly love" you offer them.

There are $%#^ing evil people out there, and I am more than happy to snuff them out before they hurt more people. Because there are too many cowards who hide behind some misguided nonsense of pacifism, thinking nobody will hurt them or theirs, as long as they are nice and friendly. Yeah. Good luck with that.
Can I get you a beverage to go with that big steaming plate of pretentious macho bull%hit?

[Scott R. Brown]

Christicles?

Apostochrists!

[TAO YIN]

Omar,

Your other reply was much better, right?

[omarthefish]

"better", maybe, maybe not. Certainly more heartfelt. I deleted it because looking at it the next day I felt it was too much of a rant and I don't feel like getting into it that much. I have the utmost respect for anyone over there serving but anyone who tries to imply that anyone criticizing the war is anti-patriot or pacifist or some kind of pansy can go F themselves. He made so many stupid, untenable, ignorant and dismissive arguments it basically discredited everything else he had said on the thread leading up to that point.

He sounded pretty smart when he was trying to explain the situation on the ground compared to the conspiracy theories and showing how different the war in Afghanistan compared to the war in Iraq. King of a shame he had to go and make a fool of himself with all the peni5 measuring BS. Big tough guy with a gun.

Idiot.

[Drake]

"better", maybe, maybe not. Certainly more heartfelt. I deleted it because looking at it the next day I felt it was too much of a rant and I don't feel like getting into it that much. I have the utmost respect for anyone over there serving but anyone who tries to imply that anyone criticizing the war is anti-patriot or pacifist or some kind of pansy can go F themselves. He made so many stupid, untenable, ignorant and dismissive arguments it basically discredited everything else he had said on the thread leading up to that point.

He sounded pretty smart when he was trying to explain the situation on the ground compared to the conspiracy theories and showing how different the war in Afghanistan compared to the war in Iraq. King of a shame he had to go and make a fool of himself with all the peni5 measuring BS. Big tough guy with a gun.

Idiot.

My my...isn't someone getting defensive?

Without war, you'd be living under the nazis... or worse. That's a fact, and you can't say **** to deny it.

The idiot is the one who thinks everyone can be reasoned with. Face facts, Omar... you are only on the internet because people were willing to fight and die on your behalf. And now you insult them. You aren't just an idiot... but a disrespectful and confused one at that.

Why don't you go visit AQ, and politely ask them to refrain from violence.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. " John Stuart Mill, English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)

[Scott R. Brown]

Let's keep in mind what the Nazi's and the Japanese did to those they conquered, and compare it to what America did to these same heinous peoples after the War. If that isn't justification for War, then those who are against War, don't deserve the freedom from oppression and abuse they enjoy!

America is the only country in the history of mankind that helps those they conquer to rebuild and stabilize their countries and create a more free constitutional democratic republic!

It is hard being a member of such a horrible country as America!

But, someone has to do it!

Edit.....

Well....ok....except for the Mongols!

But aside from them, no one else!

[Ray Pina]

If you think that your way of life can remain safe, and your family would not be either under a tyrant's boot, or drug out and raped in front of you... without someone willing to kill someone on YOUR behalf, you are either delusional or naive. You think the US got where it was by a friendly game of cricket with an oppressive British king? Maybe we could have "talked Hitler out of it"? Maybe Pol Pot just needed a hug?

We speak English in America. America is to England as to Australia as to South Africa.... different teams of the same rich white man league.

Prescot Bush funded the nazis.




The problem is that you've been protected from these evils for so long, you forget how easy it is to blow up your way of life.

Believe it or not, there are people out there, right now, who would be more than happy to cut your head off on television, regardless of how much "brotherly love" you offer them.


I love this country and glad I still have the freedom to publicly disagree with it.

You say you're fighting for that right?

Why don't you fight for the right not to have my phone and email hacked by the NSA? Why not fight to reverse the Patriot Act?

When you're told to march on your own people, who will you be fighting for then? The national guard who killed students at Kent State? The police beating protestors in the US today? Who's rights are they fighting for?

They're fighting for a pay check! They fight who they are told to fight. Like trained dogs.

I'm not scared of the Taliban cutting my head off. I have no business in their land.

I can get shot in the mall, home invaded, robbed, raped, racially attacked, terrorized right here in the culture created by Godlessness.

I love the "We fight for your safety/freedom" routine..... when we withdrew from Vietnam in defeat life got better in the US. Average incomes and home ownership increased, as did college graduates. It made zero difference.

We keep getting into wars yet we keep losing constitutional freedoms.

A peace and/or freedom that is given by another is not real peace or freedom.

The men who killed Jesus were just doing their job. Making Rome a safer place.

[omarthefish]

My my...isn't someone getting defensive?

Without war, you'd be living under the nazis... or worse. That's a fact, and you can't say **** to deny it.

The idiot is the one who thinks everyone can be reasoned with. Face facts, Omar... you are only on the internet because people were willing to fight and die on your behalf. And now you insult them. You aren't just an idiot... but a disrespectful and confused one at that.

Why don't you go visit AQ, and politely ask them to refrain from violence.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. " John Stuart Mill, English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)
You have not presented a coherent argument.

You have presented a bunch on non-sequeters. You seem to be able to argue with your self just fine I don't see why I should help you out there. Your quote is completely irrelevant to the topic of was in Afghanistan. Feel free to continue to demonstrate what an unthinking, brainwashed idiot you are. ;)

edit:
If I am going to be bothered with actually debating this with you, you will need to first pass a couple of hurdles Nothing to do with me personally, just the basic requirements for rational debate. As long as you are just going to maintain this masturbatory fantasy of who's posting on the board, what you are posting is no better than standard trolling/flaming.

1. Demonstrate at least a rudimentary understanding of what has been said.

2. Respond only to points or arguments that have actually been made. Your bedroom fantasies do not count as debating points. ;)

Otherwise, go ahead, post another testosterone fired, neo-redneck simulation of a grumpy old man throwing a tantrum because "those **** kids" are messing up your lawn.

[Scott R. Brown]

Ray,

You may want to do a bit more reading of history instead of relying on the modern liberal slant. Just about all politicians, educators and wealthy people supported the fascists of Italy and Germany originally. This was BEFORE they realized the dehumanizing brutality they used. It was called progressivism. It was all the rage at the time that was hoped to bring in the new world order.

[Drake]

You have not presented a coherent argument.

You have presented a bunch on non-sequeters. You seem to be able to argue with your self just fine I don't see why I should help you out there. Your quote is completely irrelevant to the topic of was in Afghanistan. Feel free to continue to demonstrate what an unthinking, brainwashed idiot you are. ;)

edit:
If I am going to be bothered with actually debating this with you, you will need to first pass a couple of hurdles Nothing to do with me personally, just the basic requirements for rational debate. As long as you are just going to maintain this masturbatory fantasy of who's posting on the board, what you are posting is no better than standard trolling/flaming.

1. Demonstrate at least a rudimentary understanding of what has been said.

2. Respond only to points or arguments that have actually been made. Your bedroom fantasies do not count as debating points. ;)

Otherwise, go ahead, post another testosterone fired, neo-redneck simulation of a grumpy old man throwing a tantrum because "those **** kids" are messing up your lawn.

This is what you are down to, eh? Nice...two posts later and you're hurling insults like an upset child on a playground. Excellent.

You complain about freedom... yet here you are, doing something that in other nations would have you thrown in jail without a trial. But you don't get that. It's because you've lived your life never worrying about it. And you don't even get why that's so.

I have you out-educated, certainly out-debated, and most definitely outsmarted, and I'm afraid you'll just have to deal with that. Oh, and it's NON SEQUITUR. NO hyphen, and you spelled it incorrectly. Might also benefit yourself by looking it up. Even with the internet, people still get this simple **** wrong.

And so that I don't have to experience what I'm sure is a very mature response, you have just joined the ranks of HW108 on my ignore list. You can be as stupid as you want, but not on my time.

[TAO YIN]

Answering beats arguing IMO. Sorry to knock into this guys, I find reading this interesting. I just wish that y'all would answer each other instead of argue and never respond much to what the other is saying. I am just glad to see this discussed openly, and I wish it happened more often.

Anyways, just saying that this arguing is making me confused about who is standing where.

In any case, carry on.

Drake, thank you for your service. I have a ton of questions for you, but I found it rude to PM you while there.

Well cheers to all, and Happy New Year,

Tao

[Ray Pina]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-CpCUOygqU&feature=related

[omarthefish]

Oh Drake is being a petulant little child on this thread.

He still hasn't managed to mention even a single item from any post of mine. He's too wrapped up in his moronic fantasies about who's a pacifist and what a big tough guy he is because he's a soldier and that trumps all intelligent debate.

He's already metaphorically taken his ball and gone home. Apparently I was right about him not being capable of rational debate. :D

Good riddance.

[Drake]

Oh Drake is being a petulant little child on this thread.

He still hasn't managed to mention even a single item from any post of mine. He's too wrapped up in his moronic fantasies about who's a pacifist and what a big tough guy he is because he's a soldier and that trumps all intelligent debate.

He's already metaphorically taken his ball and gone home. Apparently I was right about him not being capable of rational debate. :D

Good riddance.

I was working, dude. You should try it sometime. Oh, and I tend to sleep when you guys are awake. This clever thing called time zones, with me being halfway across the world, might cause a small shift in things.

Throwing out insults like an angry child on the playground isn't debating. It's childish. And if you are going to use big words, at least know how to spell them, and even more importantly, know what they mean.

You are ranting and raving, and then accusing me of not engaging in rationale debate. That's the beauty of ignorance, right there... utterly convinced you are right, despite glaringly obvious facts.

You DO know what happened to those who spoke out like this against the Nazi regime, right? Or those who today in North Korea speak out against their government. Or those in China who do the same. How about Myanmar?

BUT, if you want to be a GROWNUP and drop your juvenile insults, why don't you start with explaining to me how war is unnecessary in the face of historical threats like Germany, Japan, Italy, Al Qaeda, and communist expansion?

PLEASE open your history books before you start this time.

[Drake]

Answering beats arguing IMO. Sorry to knock into this guys, I find reading this interesting. I just wish that y'all would answer each other instead of argue and never respond much to what the other is saying. I am just glad to see this discussed openly, and I wish it happened more often.

Anyways, just saying that this arguing is making me confused about who is standing where.

In any case, carry on.

Drake, thank you for your service. I have a ton of questions for you, but I found it rude to PM you while there.

Well cheers to all, and Happy New Year,

Tao

PM me if you like. I'm trying to catch up with a backlog of intel reports right now... so it might take a bit.

[Ray Pina]

The U.S. has more people in jail than Russia and China combined..... land of the free.

[Ray Pina]

... with more for profit prisons on the way!!!!!! Hurray. Hurray.


Some one must be expecting trouble. For things to get worse.

[Drake]

Because those in prison clearly did not break the law, and clearly were not given the right to a trial, right?

[Yao Sing]

Ha ha, this is funny. Extremism against extremism. You guys kill me. Serious delusions on both sides.

It's a fact we do have more of our people either incarcerated or in "the system" in some way. And they (most) were found guilty of violating corporate law (crimes against the system) in accordance with corporate procedures (UCC, Admiralty, Corporate, definitely something other than Constitutional Law).

I always liked the one where we went halfway around the world to fight Communism in Vietnam but tolerate Communism a few miles off the shore of Florida.

We "save" the people from "dictators" of oil rich countries but ignore the oppression in resource poor countries.

Was Gaddaffi killed because he was a dictator, opposed the US intervention or because he was introducing the gold dinar that was not controlled by the western banking elite? If you aren't onboard the IMF you're toast.

Our military is the muscle for the same people collapsing our economy. Is God (Jesus) going to appear and make the faithful disapear before the riots start?

Can you pray your way out of a FEMA detention camp? Maybe our soldiers will all come home and save us when the general population realizes we no longer live in a Constitutional Republic. You know, the one they swore an oath to defend.

Too funny!

[Scott R. Brown]

Hmm................it is interesting that many people view others as extreme, yet don't view themselves as extreme.

It is always the other guy who is extreme, not ourselves!

Something to think about!

[omarthefish]

I was working, dude. You should try it sometime. Oh, and I tend to sleep when you guys are awake. This clever thing called time zones, with me being halfway across the world, might cause a small shift in things.
Halfway across the world? For someone who lives in Afghanistan you're strangely unfamiliar with Central Asian geography. We're practically in the same time zone. I just checked. Only 3 1/2 hours difference. But, in any case, I was actually referring to the fact that you said you had me on ignore. Not the lack of posts. :p


You are ranting and raving, and then accusing me of not engaging in rationale debate. That's the beauty of ignorance, right there... utterly convinced you are right, despite glaringly obvious facts.
Well I'm still waiting for you to even refer to anything I have posted on topic. So far just a bunch of wild off-topic rants on the necessity of war and why I should be kissing your a$$ because you think you are out there saving mine.



You DO know what happened to those who spoke out like this against the Nazi regime, right? Or those who today in North Korea speak out against their government. Or those in China who do the same. How about Myanmar?
You have not drawn any connection whatsoever between those areas and Afghanistan. And this is why I say you are just ranting.


BUT, if you want to be a GROWNUP and drop your juvenile insults, why don't you start with explaining to me how war is unnecessary in the face of historical threats like Germany, Japan, Italy, Al Qaeda, and communist expansion?
Why should I? How is that relevant to anything I have said on this thread?

The fact that you even ask this question is just another piece of evidence that you are not reading anything I have posted and are just responding to your own fantasies. "Germany, Japan, Italy, Al Qaeda, and communist expansion", of the 5 threats you named, only one of them is being discussed on this thread. So like the sesame street song says, "One of these things is not like the others...." If you can stick the topic of the thread or, even better, stick to commenting on my actual posting content rather than your preconceived notions of what I am saying, then the tone of my posts will change considerably. Otherwise, go ahead, try to pick out spelling errors...like that's soooo relevant.

p.s.

re: the one time you actually commented on something I really did write,

I took your suggestion and looked it up. "non-sequeter" is not a spelling error. Technically it's a grammatical error which would explain why my browser's spell check didn't catch it. When used as an adjective it is, indeed, hyphenated. It's only he noun usage that isn't.

[Gru Bianca]

Drake,

Italy was never a military threat, Mussolini had been "inspirational" to Hitler but never a real military threat outside the Italian borders; the only place we went was a sand box empty of everything....

As per the communism as a threat, I do not recall written anywhere that some communist Country waged war against others for occupation and conversion, revolutions yes,.. real wars? I do not think so.

Vietnam is still communist and seems that the American help for freedom didn't do much and North Korea is still communist too.

I think that the western world is really selective on which Countries should be the lucky ones to be "saved" and given a better opportunity; I just feel the prevailing propaganda of the west to be disgustingly Hypocritical.

Despite me having completely different takes then you on what's going on I still wish you the best over there, to be as safe as you can be and return to your beloved ones as soon as possible.

Ciao

[Fa Xing]

A couple of things would be helpful, familiarize yourself a bit more with the biography of Takuan, the principles of Zen/Ch'an, and also read the family writings and history of the Yagyu Clan.;)

I was Zen monk 8 years ago, but mostly with Vietnamese and Chinese traditions, my interest in Japanese Zen has come about in the past few years. I will definitely have to look at Takuan's bio, and the history of Yagyu clan.

[Scott R. Brown]

I was Zen monk 8 years ago, but mostly with Vietnamese and Chinese traditions, my interest in Japanese Zen has come about in the past few years. I will definitely have to look at Takuan's bio, and the history of Yagyu clan.

Good thinking. Takuan's comment is found within a letter he wrote to one of the Yagyus.

[Drake]

Drake,

Italy was never a military threat, Mussolini had been "inspirational" to Hitler but never a real military threat outside the Italian borders; the only place we went was a sand box empty of everything....

As per the communism as a threat, I do not recall written anywhere that some communist Country waged war against others for occupation and conversion, revolutions yes,.. real wars? I do not think so.

Vietnam is still communist and seems that the American help for freedom didn't do much and North Korea is still communist too.

I think that the western world is really selective on which Countries should be the lucky ones to be "saved" and given a better opportunity; I just feel the prevailing propaganda of the west to be disgustingly Hypocritical.

Despite me having completely different takes then you on what's going on I still wish you the best over there, to be as safe as you can be and return to your beloved ones as soon as possible.

Ciao

Gru,
I'll give you that communist expansion, while a threat, was an exagerrated threat, and that Vietnam was an utter fiasco that didn't solve as many problems it created. I think this is because communism did shift from expansion to more of a protective model in the end, thus blurring the reality of things.
And yes, there are those who think communism may be the answer, but I recall my mother once telling me that communism relies on perfect people in a world of imperfect ones. I'm also of the mind that democracy, if abused, isn't terribly different, as people tend to fall for campaign promises and excitement fairly easily.
As for my inclusion of Italy, I had already used Germany and Japan... why leave the third out? :D
My overall point is that without either a strong military, or a strong nation willing to have your back, you will be overrun by other nations. It's safe to say that NK would happily absorb SK if the ROK Army and US forces there (who may not be needed anymore, given the capabilities of the ROK Army) decide to throw down their arms. And we've already seen that AQ is actively planning to attack targets throughout the world, and several have already been stopped. Somehow, and I think it's my fault, that we shifted from that to the virtues of democracy versus communism. That might make a nifty new thread. :cool:

[Scott R. Brown]

You will find few people who have lived in Communist countries who prefer communism to capitalism. I knew a Polish defector when I was in high school, he told me about the underground economy. Basically the only thing that keeps people going is an underground capitalistic black market. In order to live he used company time and company tools and company materials (read: government) to make furniture which he traded on the black market in order to get basic necessities. He said If you need your toilet fixed you can't go to the store to buy what you need. You needed to have something to trade.

Communism does not work well because it goes against Tao, against basic human nature. That basic human nature was expressed in the black market, which is always capitalist.

Humans will always default to their basic human nature unless forced to conform to a human, contrived and false ideal.

[Gru Bianca]

Drake,

I well take your points, I have never said communism was the answer, I was just pointing out that communism has never been a real threat to others if not for the hyped propaganda of the USA during the cold era.
I have to confess though that coming from a family of active partisans (during the WWII) I surely do not stand on the "right" side of the fence so to speak and fascism doesn't sit well at our table.

On the other hand I do believe (personal belief) that the capitalism as it is lived now days also isn't the answer, as humans are imperfect and in nature extremely greedy hence I do not see what good could come from enhancing and supporting the nurture of personal greed.

From the way I see it, us, living in "democracy" are not really that better off then let's say less democratic countries like China for example. The main difference being that we are led to believe we can voice out our opinions and that our opinions do really counts whereas in China not so much, other then that,....what's the real difference??? I guess in China on that sense there is much less hypocrisy then in the West.

In Europe a new currency was implemented but no government within Europe did ask the opinion of the people; many treaties are implemented daily (the Lisbon Treaty comes to mind) without asking the people's consent and/or opinion...is that democracy? Not as I intend it, no it isn't.

Things are imposed and we are made to believe are for our own good, not really a democratic process in my view.

Military forces are a necessity of each country as a tool of self protection and if professionals even better, however, history teaches us that in case of need even civilians do know how to defend their lands, (partisan comes to mind).

Any way, just my rant.

Be safe and if you have chance, just give an hand shake to my Country's service personnel that are over there alongside you in the fulfillment of their chosen job.
They are not fighting for me they are not but they are still human beings and fellow Country men and wish them to be well and safe.

[wenshu]

Communism does not work well because it goes against Tao, against basic human nature. That basic human nature was expressed in the black market, which is always capitalist.

Humans will always default to their basic human nature unless forced to conform to a human, contrived and false ideal.

Arguably capitalism is an ideal just as contrived and arbitrary as communism. There are aspects of communism/socialism that are reflected in nature (cooperation), in fact the entirety of human prehistory is dominated by a tribal social structure.

In the real world there is no such thing as pure capitalism or pure socialism. They are just ideological labels that are perpetuated to divide people along inconsequential manufactured controversies.

Democracy is flawed, the political gridlock and campaign finance system of today's United States is evidence enough of that. Democracy does not default to capitalism anymore than a totalitarian police state precludes capitalism. Take care not to conflate politics and economics; capitalism is an economic label not a political one.

It is an oversimplification to only think about political, economic and social systems as only two dimensional.

[Gru Bianca]

Arguably capitalism is an ideal just as contrived and arbitrary as communism. There are aspects of communism/socialism that are reflected in nature (cooperation), in fact the entirety of human prehistory is dominated by a tribal social structure.

In the real world there is no such thing as pure capitalism or pure socialism. They are just ideological labels that are perpetuated to divide people along inconsequential manufactured controversies.

Democracy is flawed, the political gridlock and campaign finance system of today's United States is evidence enough of that. Democracy does not default to capitalism anymore than a totalitarian police state precludes capitalism. Take care not to conflate politics and economics; capitalism is an economic label not a political one.

It is an oversimplification to only think about political, economic and social systems as only two dimensional.

I like you :D

[Ray Pina]

Because those in prison clearly did not break the law, and clearly were not given the right to a trial, right?

Laws change.

There was a day when you could go to jail for having a beer. In some states you can have medical marijuana, in others, they'll jail you.

If you tease someone and they kill themselves you can be held responsible. Accidentally kill a civilian in Afghanistan and its collateral damage, not man slaughter.

Laws of man are weird.

[Ray Pina]

If the markets were capitalistic, all these banks would have failed. Gone out of business for being inefficient.

[David Jamieson]

communisim doesn't equate to co-operation. Nor does socialism.

Socialism is a period in between that prepares for communism.

Communism's principle ideal is: "from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs" This is a form of indentured slavery yoked upon the people who actually do aspire to make something of themselves.

So, think about how dumb the average person is, now consider that at least half all the people are dumber than that, then read Atlas Shrugged and you get a strong understanding of where John Galt is coming from.

Communism creates resentment because there will be FEW with the actual ability to give and MANY who only hold their hand out constantly. It is that way now! Even with a capitalist system, there are elements that rely on the rest of us to take care of them despite the fact they can bloody well take care of themselves.

Oh, just as an aside, I see the value of socialism or aspects of it within a functioning capitalists system. IE: the common good. But communism? Nope X infinity. A ridiculous form of government that has been proven to be nothing but a road to massive failure.

[Drake]

Arguably capitalism is an ideal just as contrived and arbitrary as communism. There are aspects of communism/socialism that are reflected in nature (cooperation), in fact the entirety of human prehistory is dominated by a tribal social structure.

In the real world there is no such thing as pure capitalism or pure socialism. They are just ideological labels that are perpetuated to divide people along inconsequential manufactured controversies.

Democracy is flawed, the political gridlock and campaign finance system of today's United States is evidence enough of that. Democracy does not default to capitalism anymore than a totalitarian police state precludes capitalism. Take care not to conflate politics and economics; capitalism is an economic label not a political one.

It is an oversimplification to only think about political, economic and social systems as only two dimensional.

So, are we suffering the results of flawed humans, which indicates that due to our flawed nature, NO system will ever truly be effective? Is there a good match for us in terms of our inherent greed and opportunistic nature?

[David Jamieson]

So, are we suffering the results of flawed humans, which indicates that due to our flawed nature, NO system will ever truly be effective? Is there a good match for us in terms of our inherent greed and opportunistic nature?

A blend of Capitalism and Socialism to offset any imbalance, or basically, where the entire developed Western world is kind of at right now. That's the system that needs to be tweaked and brought in everywhere else.

Once we can introduce the idea of trade unions and benefits to Chinese and Indian workers, we can expect to get some manufacturing jobs back. :D

[wenshu]

So, are we suffering the results of flawed humans, which indicates that due to our flawed nature, NO system will ever truly be effective? Is there a good match for us in terms of our inherent greed and opportunistic nature?

Perhaps if society became conscious of the fact that things labeled as bad (oppression, violence, greed, glutinous consumption) are necessary and inextricable facets of existence we could begin to reevaluate what it means for a system to be effective.

Violence, oppression and greed have always existed in nature, the labels we place upon them and the consequent value judgments are relatively recent inventions. Arguments about economic, political and social systems between two oversimplified black and white linear extremes always begin from the presumption that the uncomfortable aspects of our existence are evil and need be abolished for the greater good.

Ideally we need to discard this outdated black and white thinking and start making attempts to redefine the systems we live by. I think in some ways this is beginning to happen naturally by virtue of the acceleration of digital means of communication.

[goju]

communisim doesn't equate to co-operation. Nor does socialism.

Socialism is a period in between that prepares for communism.

Communism's principle ideal is: "from each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs" This is a form of indentured slavery yoked upon the people who actually do aspire to make something of themselves.

So, think about how dumb the average person is, now consider that at least half all the people are dumber than that, then read Atlas Shrugged and you get a strong understanding of where John Galt is coming from.

Communism creates resentment because there will be FEW with the actual ability to give and MANY who only hold their hand out constantly. It is that way now! Even with a capitalist system, there are elements that rely on the rest of us to take care of them despite the fact they can bloody well take care of themselves.

Oh, just as an aside, I see the value of socialism or aspects of it within a functioning capitalists system. IE: the common good. But communism? Nope X infinity. A ridiculous form of government that has been proven to be nothing but a road to massive failure.


This was beautiful
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y344/MichaelAnthonyHunt/more%20gifs/rnd-rudy.gif

[Drake]

A blend of Capitalism and Socialism to offset any imbalance, or basically, where the entire developed Western world is kind of at right now. That's the system that needs to be tweaked and brought in everywhere else.

Once we can introduce the idea of trade unions and benefits to Chinese and Indian workers, we can expect to get some manufacturing jobs back. :D

If we screw up both systems, we aren't actually balancing anything, are we? ;)

[wenshu]

So, think about how dumb the average person is, now consider that at least half all the people are dumber than that, then read Atlas Shrugged and you get a strong understanding of where John Galt is coming from.


I never realized you were so enamored of Randian rape fantasies. At least you have the good taste to steal jokes from George Carlin.

[David Jamieson]

I never realized you were so enamored of Randian rape fantasies. At least you have the good taste to steal jokes from George Carlin.

I was comedically breast fed on the Carlin teat.

I make a correlation between communism and it's faults through a loose link to Rand and I am enamored?
It is perfectly fine to draw upon any and all resources you have encountered to make comparison or to drive a point.

My point is in regards to what I feel is a worthless political model also known as communism.

[Ray Pina]

Communism, socialism and capitalist societies are all the same. I've spent time in all three.... you have the political leading and military class, you have the manufacturer bosses and then you have all the people that work for them.

The few rule the many.

[David Jamieson]

Communism, socialism and capitalist societies are all the same. I've spent time in all three.... you have the political leading and military class, you have the manufacturer bosses and then you have all the people that work for them.

The few rule the many.

The same eh? no they ain't. lol.
Gotta strongly disagree with you. The only thing they have in common is that they are political constructs and economic models and people are involved.

They are all VERY different when it gets right down to the man on the street and what his prospects are.

Communism: "From each according to ability, to each according to need"

Socialism: "Distribution of wealth in an amicable way regardless of what effort was made by whom."

Capitalism: " To each according to their ability"

[wenshu]

The same eh? no they ain't. lol.
Gotta strongly disagree with you. The only thing they have in common is that they are political constructs and economic models and people are involved.

They are all VERY different when it gets right down to the man on the street and what his prospects are.

Communism: "From each according to ability, to each according to need"

Socialism: "Distribution of wealth in an amicable way regardless of what effort was made by whom."

Capitalism: " To each according to their ability"

Socialism and Capitalism are economic models.

Communism is a combination of economic and political models the goal of which is a completely egalitarian, classless society.

[Drake]

Flash: You mean slaves?

Ming the Merciless: Let's just say... they'll be satisfied with less...

[Gru Bianca]

The same eh? no they ain't. lol.
Gotta strongly disagree with you. The only thing they have in common is that they are political constructs and economic models and people are involved.

They are all VERY different when it gets right down to the man on the street and what his prospects are.

Communism: "From each according to ability, to each according to need"

Socialism: "Distribution of wealth in an amicable way regardless of what effort was made by whom."

Capitalism: " To each according to their ability.....to steal and manipulate the law and environment to their use and consume as to fulfil personal greed and dishonesty at the expense of those less reckless and with a conscious "


Oh, perhaps you've omitted something about capitalism..:D

[David Jamieson]

Gru- You assume that capitalism is inherently evil in nature. It's not. that would be people and to be blunt, not all people are evil. By the way, do you hold any sort of an investment portfolio? Because that would make you evil by proxy of the actions of whatever company you have money invested in that is causing disaster. You drive a car? Make the connection that YOU use gas and oil and YOU want it for cheap. There are ramifications to everything and nothing is really disconnected in a system.

Wolfen- Flubberbustling is not a valid form of argumentation.

[Gru Bianca]

Gru- You assume that capitalism is inherently evil in nature. It's not. that would be people and to be blunt, not all people are evil. By the way, do you hold any sort of an investment portfolio? Because that would make you evil by proxy of the actions of whatever company you have money invested in that is causing disaster. You drive a car? Make the connection that YOU use gas and oil and YOU want it for cheap. There are ramifications to everything and nothing is really disconnected in a system.

Wolfen- Flubberbustling is not a valid form of argumentation.

i do not assume, it is in my view and being it an economic model envisioned and brought along by greedy people designed to leverage on human weaknesses can,t be a good thing. i reiterate I like the guy, his take on things and his way to put it down.
i do not own a portfolio as I do not trust that sort of "game".
for the rest I am not a monk yet so I reckon that I have to play ball but within my rules as much as I little can

[David Jamieson]

You're free to have a point of view of course. I would take free market capitalism over virtually every other economic model because it is actually the fairest in my opinion.

People are the factor that cause problems. The system isn't greedy, individuals are and not all of them certainly.

There's greed in socialist systems, communist systems, you name it and the human condition makes itself apparent despite any forms of control we place on our comings and goings.

It all comes down to you as the individual and the decisions you make along your life path.

If you put your key to happiness in someone else's pocket, you've screwed yourself basically. In other words, make yourself upright, it's all you can really do when it comes right down to it. there's no guarantees with anything else in life.

[Ray Pina]

As a journalist, regardless if its America, Russia, China, Sweden, Germany, Belgium, down here in PR..... I get picked up at the airport in a limo buy a worker driver, taken to a very fancy hotel (in CHina, it's government owned, or partially government owned).

The next day, when driving to a factory or convention, I look out the window and see homeless people, beggers. Then I get to the factory and see working poor. Or I get to convention and see middle class working people working for the factory at a higher/more educated level.

It's all the same. There are classes in all the systems. There are programs in all the systems to help the less fortunate.... to a degree. There are the super wealthy in all the systems.

[Ray Pina]

“The Third World War must be formented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the agents of the Illuminati between political Zionists and the leaders of the Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam and the political Zionism mutually destroy each other.

Meanwhile, the othr nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complet physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion. Thus they will be forced to receive the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view.” –Albert Pike, grand commander of U.S. Freemasonry, Aug. 15, 1871

[ShaolinDan]

That's not back on topic. This is back on topic. :)
http://0.tqn.com/d/animatedtv/1/0/R/I/sp108_damien.jpg

[Drake]

You're free to have a point of view of course. I would take free market capitalism over virtually every other economic model because it is actually the fairest in my opinion.

People are the factor that cause problems. The system isn't greedy, individuals are and not all of them certainly.

There's greed in socialist systems, communist systems, you name it and the human condition makes itself apparent despite any forms of control we place on our comings and goings.

It all comes down to you as the individual and the decisions you make along your life path.

If you put your key to happiness in someone else's pocket, you've screwed yourself basically. In other words, make yourself upright, it's all you can really do when it comes right down to it. there's no guarantees with anything else in life.

Do you mean an utterly free market, a la laissez-faire, or do you mean with minimal regulation? Because we've seen how corporations have taken advantage of free markets. They made them not so free.

[Scott R. Brown]

Do you mean an utterly free market, a la laissez-faire, or do you mean with minimal regulation? Because we've seen how corporations have taken advantage of free markets. They made them not so free.

In which case, they aren't free markets. Right?

[Gru Bianca]

sure it's the people, after all a system is nothing on its own other then a human projection, but the point is that capitalism as it's preached now days isn't good for the many nor "democratic".
I keep wondering why is that in capitalitic democracies people do not own their own money? Why is that in a capitalist democracy the monetary policies and money printing have to be delegated to private institutions instead of the elected Government? why is that people have to pay to have their own money (measure of their own sweat and blood) lended to them whey by right do alredy belong to them?
I am of the personal opinion that if u are not given the power to control and manage your own wealth (GDP) then you are not truly free nor in a good capitalistic system.
In closure I am not certainly a follower of the system that preaches indiscriminate privatizations as the only medicine to fair competition, especially for strategic sectors as pubblic tranportation, health, energy and defence sectors.

Time to go to sleep.

Night everybody

[Scott R. Brown]

“The Third World War must be formented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the agents of the Illuminati between political Zionists and the leaders of the Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam and the political Zionism mutually destroy each other.

Meanwhile, the othr nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complet physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion. Thus they will be forced to receive the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view.” –Albert Pike, grand commander of U.S. Freemasonry, Aug. 15, 1871

Okay uki..........stop hacking into Ray's account!

[Scott R. Brown]

I don't think anyone believes we have a free market. It is an ideal, but certainly there has never be a completely free market. Black Markets are the closest thing, but since the Black Market does not represent all goods and services it is not a true National Free Market. However, within its small sphere they are probably the closest thing to a free market.

[David Jamieson]

I don't think anyone believes we have a free market. It is an ideal, but certainly there has never be a completely free market. Black Markets are the closest thing, but since the Black Market does not represent all goods and services it is not a true National Free Market. However, within its small sphere they are probably the closest thing to a free market.

I agree with this assessment.

[Drake]

Mong bat goes "RAWR!"

[Hardwork108]

There isn't any 'we' - there is no significant market of 'we' of any kind. The market is 'theirs'.
'We' is probably means less that five percent. You can look at it two ways - wealth control or wealth ownership, either way the 'we' that 'we' got is is next to nothing - it's pointless.

When the wealth is owned by a small group , it is only capital for that small group and only capitalism for them. And they keep power by making sure that others use wealth for capital to increase their own prosperity.

This is how the system was defined the unchecked profit motive and other things. It is simply extending and reaching it's natural conclusion. The conclusion of monopolism is fascism The system need s redefinition. It can be done.

It's hard to say how much there was of 'we' previously, there may have been enough so at least we thought there was a 'we' but this is the meaning of the wealth shift. The 'we' is significantly gone. .and the wealth shift is still ongoing to...? a singularity? There may have been a 'tipping point' a couple of years ago. So long as there is a so called 'crisis' it means the wealth is being still being shifted. It's not a crisis for the elite, it's a triumph of control and they don't want to let it go.


The masses are really unaware just how much has been robbed from them, both in potential and actuality. The same goes for China.
..
The system is beyond repair by simple taxation of the rich. The wealth has to be taken from the elite and redistributed in some manner the population, not to the government - which would simply transfer power from elite to the elite mandarins IE another form of fascist Statism.
Generations of families and workers have created wealth all of which has been simply taken from them. They have created so much wealth for the owners that now the owners cn afford ten cameras to watch every low wage earner.
IE There is no real shortage of wealth - there is a shortage of wealth sharing. The wealth that is created is used to furhter disempower the workers that create it.
..
I like the idea of giving workers shares and controlling financial interests in the companies they work for -forcing this. Or interest free loans.. Once you take the lid off, expose the fallacy that the system is capitalist, separate the idea of capitalism form the idea of economic fascism by an elite, there are endless ideas to try that have never been tried.

Very well put and this is very relevant in today's time of economic "crisis", which is being used to transfer wealth from the masses into the pockets of the elite banking cartels, that is, their owners.

People don't see it, because they are blind as bats, politically speaking of course. While they were looking to utterly corrupt politicians such as Obama, for change, the man himself was handing out billions of dollars to the same banks, whose owners own his a$$, lock stock and barrel. Yet, people don't see this day light robbery that includes an attack on the American middle class, to the point of reducing them to a minority.

Yes, Fascism is not on its way, it is here already, but a population that has been dumbed down for decades, will not see it, until it is too late!

[hskwarrior]

has anyone checked out the Illuminati playing cards? i found them pretty interesting as they were printed many years before certain famous incidents.


http://socioecohistory.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/terrorist_nuke.jpg

[Drake]

The WTC was bombed before in 1993, two years before these cards came out. Probably a reference to that.

There's actually a Sega game where you literally fly a plane into the WTC... now THAT'S prophetic!

[Gru Bianca]

[QUOTE=Drake;1151607]The WTC was bombed before in 1993, two years before these cards came out. Probably a reference to that.

There's actually a Sega game where you literally fly a plane into the WTC... now THAT'S prophetic![/QUOTE

Or inspirational to some?:p

[David Jamieson]

Too long, didn't read.

These rants are thread killers. :p

lol

[David Jamieson]

Insincerity

^ someone who trolls others, reveals nothing of their identity and rants on internet forums.

And he calls me insincere?

that's rich.:rolleyes:

[Scott R. Brown]

I am with David on this.

Life is unfair, it always has been unfair and will always be unfair.

It would be unfair if I were in charge, it would be unfair if you were in charge, it would be unfair if anyone were in charge.

Learn it, live it, love it!

And relax! There is nothing you can do about it!

[David Jamieson]

Now we're both gonna get smeared as system apologists Scott.

As opposed to casual observers doing our own thing to make our lives as best as we can make them in the circumstances we live in.

:p

[Drake]

Now we're both gonna get smeared as system apologists Scott.

As opposed to casual observers doing our own thing to make our lives as best as we can make them in the circumstances we live in.

:p

Don't forget fascist...

[Scott R. Brown]

Now we're both gonna get smeared as system apologists Scott.

As opposed to casual observers doing our own thing to make our lives as best as we can make them in the circumstances we live in.

:p

At least we aren't, "Life isn't FAIR!!" whiners, who delude themselves into thinking everything will be perfect if OUR way of doing things was implemented.

Life is not fair and it isn't supposed to be fair. That doesn't mean it can't be more fair, but fair is a variable convention, so even more fair to one will be more unfair to another.

It is a self created problem. While their glass is half empty, mine is half full.

[Jimbo]

has anyone checked out the Illuminati playing cards? i found them pretty interesting as they were printed many years before certain famous incidents.


http://socioecohistory.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/terrorist_nuke.jpg

I remember several months before 9/11/01, there was a pilot for a short-lived show called The Lone Gunmen, an X-Files spinoff, that featured a plane remotely controlled to crash into the WTC. In the show they stopped it, but when 9/11 happened, that show came to mind. Understandably, they never aired it again and most likely never will.

[wenshu]

Life is not fair and it isn't supposed to be fair. That doesn't mean it can't be more fair, but fair is a variable convention, so even more fair to one will be more unfair to another.

Fair is what you pay to ride the bus.

[Scott R. Brown]

Fair is what you pay to ride the bus.

Uh........that would be FARE!:p

[wenshu]

Uh........that would be FARE!:p

Prescriptive grammar apologist.

[Drake]

[QUOTE=Drake;1151607]The WTC was bombed before in 1993, two years before these cards came out. Probably a reference to that.

There's actually a Sega game where you literally fly a plane into the WTC... now THAT'S prophetic![/QUOTE

Or inspirational to some?:p

Now watch us find a Sega Genesis over here in one of our cache busts...

[Lucas]

just remember to hold diagnal down left and a,b,c at the title screen to pick your altered beast you wanna play as!!

[Syn7]

just remember to hold diagnal down left and a,b,c at the title screen to pick your altered beast you wanna play as!!

As soon as i saw the words "sega genesis" my mind went str8 to Altered Beast.


Ooooooohhhh Lucas my friend, DATED!
GOTCHA! :eek:

[Gru Bianca]

[QUOTE=Gru Bianca;1151623]

Now watch us find a Sega Genesis over here in one of our cache busts...

Together with an Atari and a Commodor 28 and 64 :D

[Drake]

[QUOTE=Drake;1151709]

Together with an Atari and a Commodor 28 and 64 :D

I actually owned both of those...

Atari 2600 AND Commodore 64. Rich kids got the Commodore 128 and Atari 5200... some even got the Tandy from Radio Shack.

[Gru Bianca]

[QUOTE=Gru Bianca;1151819]

I actually owned both of those...

Atari 2600 AND Commodore 64. Rich kids got the Commodore 128 and Atari 5200... some even got the Tandy from Radio Shack.

Commodore 64 was what I did get, my first one, with the special tape "recorder" to load the games with a little screw inside to be used as re-setting tool in case of problems.... hhahahaah nice old days

[hskwarrior]

http://www.oddpic.com/upload/Pictures/thumbs/messed-up-eye-chart_big.jpg

[David Jamieson]

You must really like reading your own stuff or something.
Why would you even presume to postulate further

I pretty much reject a lot of your points of view as is. Why on earth do you think you'd have something to teach when your content has already been rejected as absurd and unsuitable?

[Syn7]

That's insane. Does anyone here read any of this kids dribble?

I think this could be considered as spamming and is mos def a bannable offence... Please!?!?!?!?

[Lucas]

I arm wrestled the devil today and almost beat him. I'm pretty sure hes juicing.