Fajin

[Hendrik]

Fa means issue
Jin means force vector.
Jin sources from strength or Li.

The different between Jin and Li are Jin is a vector quantity with direction and magnitude. Li or strength is a scala with only magnitude.


Fa Jin is issuing a force vector. And the force vector is a refinement from strength .


Thus, fa Jin can be anything from pinching to crush one's body to the wall.
from riding a bicycle to slams into a wall to riding a motorcycle and jam the front wheel suddently cause one to bounce and slams into a wall.

However, due to misconception, people some how think only a particular type of movement such as the movement of being bounce off by a wild horse is fajin. And then get into the side track of mimicking that type of bouncing movement but missed the key ----the force vector.


For fajing one knows exactly how to produce the type of force vector intended.

[YouKnowWho]

I may add that Jin is exponential bell curve. It comes and go in fast speed.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1400&bih=939&tbm=isch&tbnid=TfcAaaGBZF-JQM:&imgrefurl=http://www.robertniles.com/stats/stdev.shtml&docid=AVomkYdZcU7Q3M&imgurl=http://www.robertniles.com/stats/graphics/normal.gif&w=316&h=193&ei=0Zz8Tv-nEqnq2QWst4ytAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=659&vpy=219&dur=3250&hovh=154&hovw=252&tx=138&ty=110&sig=108645184675801907935&page=1&tbnh=133&tbnw=217&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0

while Li is constant or linear.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1V3IPYX_enUS463US464&biw=1400&bih=939&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=ZEOPIE7UnHU4wM:&imgrefurl=http://matlab.cheme.cmu.edu/&docid=K4A7amweRcQ4MM&imgurl=http://matlab.cheme.cmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/water_gas_shift_01.png&w=560&h=420&ei=Wp38Tp_fBsWi2gWqwpCLAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=367&vpy=630&dur=8299&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=160&ty=171&sig=108645184675801907935&page=1&tbnh=141&tbnw=201&start=0&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:29,s:0

[Hendrik]

I may add that Jin is exponential bell curve. It comes and go in fast speed.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1400&bih=939&tbm=isch&tbnid=TfcAaaGBZF-JQM:&imgrefurl=http://www.robertniles.com/stats/stdev.shtml&docid=AVomkYdZcU7Q3M&imgurl=http://www.robertniles.com/stats/graphics/normal.gif&w=316&h=193&ei=0Zz8Tv-nEqnq2QWst4ytAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=659&vpy=219&dur=3250&hovh=154&hovw=252&tx=138&ty=110&sig=108645184675801907935&page=1&tbnh=133&tbnw=217&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0

while Li is constant or linear.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1V3IPYX_enUS463US464&biw=1400&bih=939&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=ZEOPIE7UnHU4wM:&imgrefurl=http://matlab.cheme.cmu.edu/&docid=K4A7amweRcQ4MM&imgurl=http://matlab.cheme.cmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/water_gas_shift_01.png&w=560&h=420&ei=Wp38Tp_fBsWi2gWqwpCLAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=367&vpy=630&dur=8299&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=160&ty=171&sig=108645184675801907935&page=1&tbnh=141&tbnw=201&start=0&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:29,s:0


What you say is Jin is an impulse. Where Li is. Constant.

These seem true.

However, in my understanding, in the definition of the 1930 old chinese central tcma people.

Jin and Li are independent with impulse and constant.

For example,
the explosion Li or bau cha li of a punch strike is an impulse strength . Or bell curve type.
Peng Jin of taiji is a contant applied force vectors. Or linear.

[YouKnowWho]

Peng Jin of taiji is a contant applied force vectors. Or linear.Both Ji and An can be Fa. Peng and Lu can not be Fa.

[Hendrik]

Both Ji and An can be Fa. Peng and Lu can not be Fa.


IMHO.

Jin is independent of using it for balancing or projection.

Ji and an type of Jin project outward. While peng dissolve the incoming force at contact.

So, peng is not projection but peng is dissolving at called or issue or fa.

This, again Jin according to the ancient tcma describetion is independent of balancing or issuing.

Fa means issue also means called for. It is independent of projection or strike out.

Things need to be extremely clear other wise one doesn't have the full handling of Li and Jin.

[YouKnowWho]

So your definition of Fa is "issue" and not "fast issue". I know fast and slow are both "relative" and not "absolute".

[Hendrik]

So your definition of Fa is "issue" and not "fast issue". I know fast and slow are both "relative" and not "absolute".


In my understanding,
Fa can be either for balancing or projection. Fa is more a ," calling for" , as if for fast, slow...etc that needs to further define.

For example,

Fa the 驚彈勁or shock bounce jin as its name refer it is fast. So, Jin by itself is very broad and 發or issue is also very broad, they need another term to further describe as in here the shock bounce.

Fa the 金鈎勁or golden hook Jin will then be not as abrupt and shock bounce.

[YouKnowWho]

Fa the 驚彈勁or shock bounce jin as its name refer it is fast. So, Jin by itself is very broad and 發or issue is also very broad, they need another term to further describe as in here the shock bounce.

Fa the 金鈎勁or golden hook Jin will then be not as abrupt and shock bounce.

I have clips used in the Chinese wrestling for 驚彈勁 (shock bounce jin) and 金鈎勁 (golden hook Jin). Do you have such clips used for the WC system? If you share yours, I'll share mine. ;)

[Hendrik]

I have clips used in the Chinese wrestling for 驚彈勁 (shock bounce jin) and 金鈎勁 (golden hook Jin). Do you have such clips used for the WC system? If you share yours, I'll share mine. ;)

You can get the shock bounce which is the last bounce in my five layers clip start at 3.14 the three types of bounce. .

----------

2. Start from 3.14 is three type of bounce for different purposes using different parts of the body to cover vibrate body 震身mechanics 。these are shake bounce 抖彈。drop bounce 墬弾。shock bounce驚彈。Shock bounce is the core of yik kam shock or short Jin which was describe as accelerate 速 , release脫, bounce彈 , 盪recoil back. It is a 6d momentum with 5 layers details.

[Robinhood]

You can get the shock bounce which is the last bounce in my five layers clip start at 3.14 the three types of bounce. .

----------

2. Start from 3.14 is three type of bounce for different purposes using different parts of the body to cover vibrate body 震身mechanics 。these are shake bounce 抖彈。drop bounce 墬弾。shock bounce驚彈。Shock bounce is the core of yik kam shock or short Jin which was describe as accelerate 速 , release脫, bounce彈 , 盪recoil back. It is a 6d momentum with 5 layers details.

Sounds like you are trying to name outcome of direction as different sources. If the wind was blowing in different directions and made things blow over or move, would you only refer to describe result or stay with what caused it to move, vibrate, circle, spiral, etc.

[Hendrik]

Sounds like you are trying to name outcome of direction as different sources.

If the wind was blowing in different directions and made things blow over or move, would you only refer to describe result or stay with what caused it to move, vibrate, circle, spiral, etc.


Nope. You mis understood.


Human body is human body,
however, there are various ways of using human body parts combination differently to create different outcomes.

[Yoshiyahu]

Thank you hendrik for your post...some of it i understand...some of it still is weird how you define it...i guess i would have touch hands to feel what you mean!!!

[Hendrik]

Thank you hendrik for your post...some of it i understand...some of it still is weird how you define it...i guess i would have touch hands to feel what you mean!!!


I don't define them, juan relay what is it as it in tcma.

[YouKnowWho]

You can get the shock bounce which is the last bounce in my five layers clip start at 3.14 the three types of bounce. .

----------

2. Start from 3.14 is three type of bounce for different purposes using different parts of the body to cover vibrate body 震身mechanics 。these are shake bounce 抖彈。drop bounce 墬弾。shock bounce驚彈。Shock bounce is the core of yik kam shock or short Jin which was describe as accelerate 速 , release脫, bounce彈 , 盪recoil back. It is a 6d momentum with 5 layers details.

Do you have any clip that someone (doesn't have to be yours) applies those Jin on his opponent?

[Hendrik]

Do you have any clip that someone (doesn't have to be yours) applies those Jin on his opponent?

Nope.

But sure one tested these type of things with training tool...ect as usual.
Those who knows what I am doing knows where to look at what is in my clip.

Want to share your sc shock? Prefer solo? I am interested in solo to see what mechanics are there. As for how one applied it that is one's Level of Kung fu, and that i am not that interested and respect other privatecy.

[Yoshiyahu]

I don't define them, juan relay what is it as it in tcma.

okay thanks again!

[YouKnowWho]

Nope.

But sure one tested these type of things with training tool...ect as usual.
Those who knows what I am doing knows where to look at what is in my clip.

Want to share your sc shock? Prefer solo? I am interested in solo to see what mechanics are there. As for how one applied it that is one's Level of Kung fu, and that i am not that interested and respect other privatecy.

As I have said, if you can put up one application clip, I'll put up one in return. I'm not too interested in solo clip. I'm the person who like to see the "result". ;)

[Hendrik]

As I have said, if you can put up one application clip, I'll put up one in return. I'm not too interested in solo clip. I'm the person who like to see the "result". ;)

You ask me for iT in the earlier post. And I shared it.

Now you change your condition. That is fine with me.

For me, solo or double , mechanics is mechanics. It is mechanics I am interested in.

[YouKnowWho]

You ask me for iT in the earlier post. And I shared it.

Now you change your condition. That is fine with me.

For me, solo or double , mechanics is mechanics. It is mechanics I am interested in.
I didn't not change my condition. Sorry that you may misunderstand me. To me, clip is always "2 men application". I'll never, never, and never ask for anybody's solo clip.


I have clips used in the Chinese wrestling for 驚彈勁 (shock bounce jin) and 金鈎勁 (golden hook Jin). Do you have such clips used for the WC system? If you share yours, I'll share mine. ;)

[Hendrik]

I didn't not change my condition. Sorry that you may misunderstand me. To me, clip is always "2 men application". I'll never, never, and never ask for anybody's solo clip.

That is ok.

For me, Sharing doesnt need no condition.



Didn't you the one who post up the clip adam shu shows his baji Jin in solo?

[YouKnowWho]

For me, Sharing doesnt need no condition.
You only share when someone asks for it. Otherwise it's just "showing off".

The only problem is sometime people may treat your sharing as "have all of the answers and is unwilling to learn from others". It's not good to use your hot face to touch someone's cold ass. :(


Didn't you the one who post up the clip adam shu shows his baji Jin in solo?
It just because those "solo clips" can be found online, that's why I asked for "application clip". I would love to see any clip about Baji Jin applied on opponent's body.

[imperialtaichi]

For me, solo or double , mechanics is mechanics. It is mechanics I am interested in.

Hendrik, if one is building a car, one needs to test drive it to make sure everything was built correctly. Push it to the limits and see if it works.

Same for Internal training; if one does not test it, how would one know he/she is not just fooling himself/herself?

My teacher in Beijing, at the age of 86, though weak still Fajin very well (though more in a controlled enviroment). My teacher in Guangzhou, though physically unhealthy, still can issue power during a fight very well. Even when one is old and weak, Fajin is Fajin.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik, if one is building a car, one needs to test drive it to make sure everything was built correctly. Push it to the limits and see if it works.

Same for Internal training; if one does not test it, how would one know he/she is not just fooling himself/herself?

My teacher in Beijing, at the age of 86, though weak still Fajin very well (though more in a controlled enviroment). My teacher in Guangzhou, though physically unhealthy, still can issue power during a fight very well. Even when one is old and weak, Fajin is Fajin.

You certainly missed my previous post
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1150707&postcount=15

[Yoshiyahu]

Baji Jin catch if u can


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22rnZ_t_ZaI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LuKKEL29Io&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi-7XxvlU3c&feature=related


You only share when someone asks for it. Otherwise it's just "showing off".

The only problem is sometime people may treat your sharing as "have all of the answers and is unwilling to learn from others". It's not good to use your hot face to touch someone's cold ass. :(


It just because those "solo clips" can be found online, that's why I asked for "application clip". I would love to see any clip about Baji Jin applied on opponent's body.

[YouKnowWho]

Those clips are much more fun to watch.

[Yoshiyahu]

Those clips are much more fun to watch.

what do you think about them?

[YouKnowWho]

what do you think about them?

I think the "bajiquan fighter" clip is not real fight but demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi-7XxvlU3c&feature=related

[imperialtaichi]

Haha, couple of old old old clips of me doing Tai Chi, "Fajin" types of things. I had thicker hair and smaller gut (gut filled with beer, not Qi.) Done as a demo, not as a fight.

A quick Fajin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfIxiMalDNU&feature=related

A long winded explaination (dozing off....)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8LpTbVNcxY&feature=related

Less long winded, on sticking and controlling, dealing with the opponent's power source and moving the mind (Yi) through the opponent's arm/body:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIiG05v7xg&feature=related

Cheers,
John

[imperialtaichi]

Haha, couple of old old old clips of me doing Tai Chi, "Fajin" types of things. I had thicker hair and smaller gut (gut filled with beer, not Qi.) Done as a demo, not as a fight.

A quick Fajin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfIxiMalDNU&feature=related

A long winded explaination (dozing off....)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8LpTbVNcxY&feature=related

Less long winded, on sticking and controlling, dealing with the opponent's power source and moving the mind (Yi) through the opponent's arm/body:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIiG05v7xg&feature=related

Cheers,
John

That's what I mean by you don't need force to Fajin (not saying that in a real fight you don't want force), and that "Internal" Kung Fu is not just about internal alignment and generation of force/power, but also on how to cover your opponent with Yi.

I see the Tai Chi I did as theoretical background; and the Kulo as practical expression.

[LoneTiger108]

I see the Tai Chi I did as theoretical background; and the Kulo as practical expression.

Interesting, but concerning too.

Still, nobody here has posted the original two chinese characters for Fajin which for me is a MASSIVE concern.

And all the clips here are from Baji/Bagua Kuen and have little to do with what energies Wing Chun practitioners use and train. They're good clips don't get me wrong, and I loved the two man set, but our two man sets are so so different imho...

[LoneTiger108]

Still, nobody here has posted the original two chinese characters for Fajin which for me is a MASSIVE concern.

發勁 = Fajin (Mandarin)

And from my understanding, this 'strength' isn't even an internal study. It's an instant release of muscular strength. Something that happens with no 'build up'. A 'reflex' if you like. The character jin/ging itself gives it away and this is what I was waiting to see.

So, thanks Hendrik for sharing (finally!!)

[Hendrik]

That's what I mean by you don't need force to Fajin (not saying that in a real fight you don't want force), and that "Internal" Kung Fu is not just about internal alignment and generation of force/power, but also on how to cover your opponent with Yi.

I see the Tai Chi I did as theoretical background; and the Kulo as practical expression.

Thanks and appreciate for your full hearted very educational sharing.

Great explation!






Only if you interested,

In my terminology,
On above, This class of fajin is what I called force vector balancing . Depending on the player, it might be 2, 4, or 6 d.

For me, the common term As 'cover the opponent with yi ' or nim lik does not tell the full story. In fact, it Actually is misleading because yi alone cannot do mechanical work. Work as the work in physics class. So what it is is one needs to train until the intention or yi (synchronize with the physical body without have to think ) can call for different physical structure alignment using the opponent's force vector as a feedback. It is still internal alignment and power generation because there is physical work needs to be done in a physical world. However, it is an act of balancing instead of projection in expression.


If you see taiji as theory and kulo as the practical expression, then what is your engine type? Since Kulo and taiji has different dynamic structure type. For me, I could be wrong, my finding from you clips is your engine is kulo, you are using taiji balancing technics in your kulo. And occasionally use yang taichi big frame structure. This is what I mean by interesting in mechanics. Certainly one needs to test and development, however, to know the mechanics knows the boundary limits. As it says, one design a good product via a good mechanics design, not via testing it. Because no matter how one test an iron rod cannot make it a steel rod. Sure, testing is needed to make sure the quality of the iron rod.

[Hendrik]

Less long winded, on sticking and controlling, dealing with the opponent's power source and moving the mind (Yi) through the opponent's arm/body:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQIiG05v7xg&feature=related



John,

Great very educational full hearted sharing clip.



Only if you are interested,

For me, just my opinion, the above case cover most of the case.
I found when facing a develop internal artist the paradigm shifted and new phenomenon surfaces.

My reason are
1.because with the 6 d mechanics, the resultant force is no longer from one source. Thus make the source difficult to track. And it is a competition of how much 6 d coverage one has. It becomes a game of dynamic structure flow.
2. When the lower part of the body developed , meaning the qi open up the waist down to toes. Or reach the 3rd state of development equivalent which Chen man ching propose, the force vector handling in the body no longer the same .

What do you think?

[Hendrik]

This is real for me

http://www.tidewatertaichi.com/FAQ.html


As it says

-----------
Human Level
First Degree: Relax the tendons and ligaments from the shoulders to the tip of the middle finger.
Second Degree: Relax the tendons and ligaments from the hip joints to the bubbling well.
Third Degree: Relax the tendons and ligaments from the tail bone to the top of the head.

Earth Level
First Degree: Sink the qi to the dantien.
Second Degree: Use the mind to move the qi from the dantien through the arms and legs to the fingertips and bubbling well.
Third Degree: Use the mind to move the qi from the tailbone (weilu) to the top of the head (niwan).

((Hendrik's. Note: my view on the earth level is, one doesn't have to use the mind to move the qi. When qi is full it fill up and. Blockage remove, qi will circulate by itself naturally. It is like when the reservoir is full and the sue system is unblock, water flow by itself. Thus, at this level one needs to attain the natural flow instead of using mind to move qi . Qi will circulate by itself and one must not disturbed the qi flow. That is dao mimic the nature. ))


Heaven Level
First Degree: Listen to the energy and strength (ting jin) of another.
Second Degree: Understand the energy and strength (dong jin) of another.
Third Degree: “Omnipotence Level.” The mind (yi) relies on the spirit (jing shen) not the qi to mobilize the body. Rely on “spiritual power” and “divine speed” rather than qi to move the body and maintain the taiji point of balance and harmony with others.


-----------


In the reality, most tcma practioner never fully develop human level second degree. Majority never get to the second degree of earth level. Thus, no matter How one test one's Jin, one can never go past one's boundary limit of capability. It is like a weak battery will not run the cell phone long. The way one uses one's body in normal person, human second degree, earth second degree different distinctively.


Those who has the higher degree and level attain will know the signatual or where to look for what other likely to be in.

As for true Jin development , it is at heaven level. According to gm Chen man Ching.


Hendriks note: in reality, things are not these clear cut, ie, one can learn listen to Jin even at human level but that level of listen is very clumsy.

So, in internal art standard, the Kung for Jin development is specific and clear. Thus, one knows no matter how one test the applications one needs to develop the level of Kung in solo first. That is the key of development.

[Yoshiyahu]

I think the "bajiquan fighter" clip is not real fight but demo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi-7XxvlU3c&feature=related

ooh well heres a real Baji fight demo!!!!


ha ha...

hey its u and me on this clip hooray!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfJoBWU1SSQ&feature=related

[imperialtaichi]

Hendrik,

You are a great intellect, but you can't learn to ride a bike just by reading a book.

When Yi takes over body, you will realize all these different "engines" are free to use, and there is little distinction between styles, just different focus and emphasis.

My advice would be to focus more on Yi, and let the body look after itself.

If we ever meet up, I'll let you feel what's going on.

[YouKnowWho]

For me, solo or double , mechanics is mechanics. It is mechanics I am interested in.
Hendrik:

Just for my personal curiosity, why do you have so much interest in "mechanics" if you don't care much about application? What's good about Fajin, if you don't care about sending it into your opponent's body? MA is 2 persons art. It's not solo. If you only care about solo, there are many things that you can do besides TCMA. If you only care about "health" and "self-cultivation" then why do you care about Fajin at all? In other words, why do you want to learn Chinese sword if you don't care about to use your sword to kill your enemy?

[Hendrik]

Hendrik,

You are a great intellect, but you can't learn to ride a bike just by reading a book.

When Yi takes over body, you will realize all these different "engines" are free to use, and there is little distinction between styles, just different focus and emphasis.

My advice would be to focus more on Yi, and let the body look after itself.

If we ever meet up, I'll let you feel what's going on.


John,

I disagree.

A Yi chuan practitioner will not do the same with a yang tai chi,
a yang tai chi is not using the body and mind as Chen taiji.
A Xing yi will use the body different with white crane of fujian.
An emei 12 zhuang guy with snake engine will not move the same with a bagua person.

All of these people use yi And develop with yi but the engine is different.


Take a classical case, the shaolin Lin yi Jin jing start it's training via activate the lung medirians. The emei 12 zhuang starts with the liver medirians activation. The taichi starts with both three yin and yang medirians . These all are good, using yi , but they produce different results.
It is an body mind evolution development, how the body mind is condition will decide what type of outcome after the evolution or transformation.

Even the yang taichi long Jin and Chen reel silk Jin are different stuffs as we know.

Not to mention, to cultivate yi, one needs to store Shen. Without Shen, the yi is dull.

So, it is not book reading but ancient Chinese technology. It is called the dharma door 法門 different art has different dharma door they cultivate and develop different results. Take a look even Chen man Ching style is different compare to other yang style.

[imperialtaichi]

So, it is not book reading but ancient Chinese technology. It is called the dharma door 法門 different art has different dharma door they cultivate and develop different results. Take a look even Chen man Ching style is different compare to other yang style.

Different "dharma doors" open into the same house.

Different Martial Art styles describe different parts of the same elephant.

I don't just look for differences in styles; I look for the universal message behind the differences.

[Hendrik]

Different "dharma doors" open into the same house.

Different Martial Art styles describe different parts of the same elephant.

I don't just look for differences in styles; I look for the universal message behind the differences.

I certainly accept your view.

[imperialtaichi]

I certainly accept your view.

Likewise. I respect yours.

[Yoshiyahu]

Glad to see this forum post is peaceful and informative and people are sharing ideas, different engines and different applications!

[EternalSpring]

Different "dharma doors" open into the same house.

Different Martial Art styles describe different parts of the same elephant.

I don't just look for differences in styles; I look for the universal message behind the differences.

well said!

[Hendrik]

To see different type of Jin and engine.

One can compare the fajin utube of Cxw of Chen taiji, Cheng Maan Ching of Cheng taiji, and Bruce lee doing his inch punch demo.

There one can see three different type of jins, three different types of body mechanics, and three different type of engine.

[Robinhood]

Different "dharma doors" open into the same house.

Different Martial Art styles describe different parts of the same elephant.

I don't just look for differences in styles; I look for the universal message behind the differences.

I think this is more on the path, of how body is.

How efficient you can be is just mechanics of level, all parts still the same, unless you are alien.

[Hendrik]

Even we all like to think dao is the same finally in the philosophical way.


The reality of tcma in practice level.
In term of Kung or engine, kung fa or method for cultivation, Jin lei or force type are different in the reality.

Take a look at the following three different engine type, observe their individual physical body they condition them self Into, observe the mechanics how they generate force vector, observe the different type of force vector genereated.

The body of Bruce lee is not optimal for Chen ciao Wang Jin. The body and jin of Chen man Ching is different then Chen xio Wang because they have different engine develop.

Unless one is super genius, one usually has only one well develop engine type in one's body.
For example, Chen maan ching will not do things as chen xiao wang .Bruce body engine doesn't support Chen ciao Wang fa Jin.

In addition, every individual engine is used to support it's individual style for thier applications.

Chen xiao wang bounce 1

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHyl8mg4Pg6o%26lis t%3DPL23C50A759ACF6A67%26index%3D1%26feature%3Dplp p_video&index=1&list=PL23C50A759ACF6A67&feature=plpp_video&v=Hyl8mg4Pg6o&gl=US


Cheng maan ching bounce 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_611ZXXuA


Bruce lee. Thrust

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS6aMdskKSo



Further more, one can intercept Bruce lee engine type and jam the engine at body contact range. However the Cxw and cmc type of engine will continous to operate at body contact range.

[Robinhood]

Even we all like to think dao is the same finally in the philosophical way.


The reality of tcma in practice level.
In term of Kung or engine, kung fa or method for cultivation, Jin lei or force type are different in the reality.

Take a look at the following three different engine type, observe their individual physical body they condition them self Into, observe the mechanics how they generate force vector, observe the different type of force vector genereated.

The body of Bruce lee is not optimal for Chen ciao Wang Jin. The body and jin of Chen man Ching is different then Chen xio Wang because they have different engine develop.

Unless one is super genius, one usually has only one well develop engine type in one's body.
For example, Chen maan ching will not do things as chen xiao wang .Bruce body engine doesn't support Chen ciao Wang fa Jin.

In addition, every individual engine is used to support it's individual style for thier applications.

Chen xiao wang bounce 1

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHyl8mg4Pg6o%26lis t%3DPL23C50A759ACF6A67%26index%3D1%26feature%3Dplp p_video&index=1&list=PL23C50A759ACF6A67&feature=plpp_video&v=Hyl8mg4Pg6o&gl=US


Cheng maan ching bounce 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_611ZXXuA


Bruce lee. Thrust

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS6aMdskKSo



Further more, one can intercept Bruce lee engine type and jam the engine at body contact range. However the Cxw and cmc type of engine will continous to operate at body contact range.

I would call their application more of a personality expression , rather than engine, engine is all same components , just different emphasis depending on level of practitioner .

[Hendrik]

I would call their application more of a personality expression , rather than engine, engine is all same components , just different emphasis depending on level of practitioner .

From an ancient Chinese 1850 point of view,

In tcma classical , every complete art has two parts. These two parts are the body體 or the engine and the applications用.

The body support the applications. And the applications make the body usefull. That is the ancient Chinese view. An art with body only will be useless. And an art with only application will be a dead art.

When one develop one's Kung fu, one develop the body or the engine. As it says, practice the art without cultivate the Kung, when one aged one has nothing. 練拳不練功到老一㘯空。

With the growth of the Kung of the body or engine, the applications must improve. However, without a growth in the Kung, applications progress will reach slow improve zone and decline with age.

Personal expression or personal style is based on after one develop the Kung, one does need a fix frame and can have one's own twist when execute the applications. However, one has to have the Kung or the body or engine to get there. And the Level of Kung fu is in the depth of details handling rather then a different style.

Bruce lee will never do what Chen xiao Wang does because Bruce body, has been evolved in a different way. Chen xiao wang on the other hand has evolved his body with Chen style reel silk Kung. Cheng man Ching on the other hand has evolved his body with yang style Kung. Due to body evolve with different types of Kung, the body no longer response the same when one does a middle punch.

The issue with today's tcma in the west is in general it was taught without the Kung part for most. Only applications was taught. Form are just some mysterious move. Ie the Sam bai fat of slt. Most dont know how it works in the 5 layers but thinking one will have some mysterios power by keep doing it.

In the ancient, Kung is also purposely left out for non indoor students. As it is said , one can teaches the applications but not how to develop Kung.

As in the fast food world today, where applications are everything. Kung , body of the art, or engine is even rare. Because the development of engine started with a price tag of daily practice of three months and cannot be done via a two days seminars.

[YouKnowWho]

As in the fast food world today, where applications are everything. Kung , body of the art, or engine is even rare.
Witness is the problem that we have today. If oneday God appears himself on top the cloud, the whole earth population will be converted into christan.

If a teacher want to ask his students to spend time to train Kung, he has to 1st show his students what Kung can do for them.

[Hendrik]

Witness is the problem that we have today. If oneday God appears himself on top the cloud, the whole earth population will be converted into christan.

If a teacher want to ask his students to spend time to train Kung, he has to 1st show his students what Kung can do for them.

That is why serious taiji people goes to learn from Chen xiao Wang.

People want health go to learn fom Jim.
http://web.mit.edu/qigong/Testimonials.html

[Robinhood]

From an ancient Chinese 1850 point of view,

In tcma classical , every complete art has two parts. These two parts are the body體 or the engine and the applications用.

The body support the applications. And the applications make the body usefull. That is the ancient Chinese view. An art with body only will be useless. And an art with only application will be a dead art.

When one develop one's Kung fu, one develop the body or the engine. As it says, practice the art without cultivate the Kung, when one aged one has nothing. 練拳不練功到老一㘯空。

With the growth of the Kung of the body or engine, the applications must improve. However, without a growth in the Kung, applications progress will reach slow improve zone and decline with age.

Personal expression or personal style is based on after one develop the Kung, one does need a fix frame and can have one's own twist when execute the applications. However, one has to have the Kung or the body or engine to get there. And the Level of Kung fu is in the depth of details handling rather then a different style.

Bruce lee will never do what Chen xiao Wang does because Bruce body, has been evolved in a different way. Chen xiao wang on the other hand has evolved his body with Chen style reel silk Kung. Cheng man Ching on the other hand has evolved his body with yang style Kung. Due to body evolve with different types of Kung, the body no longer response the same when one does a middle punch.

The issue with today's tcma in the west is in general it was taught without the Kung part for most. Only applications was taught. Form are just some mysterious move. Ie the Sam bai fat of slt. Most dont know how it works in the 5 layers but thinking one will have some mysterios power by keep doing it.

In the ancient, Kung is also purposely left out for non indoor students. As it is said , one can teaches the applications but not how to develop Kung.

As in the fast food world today, where applications are everything. Kung , body of the art, or engine is even rare. Because the development of engine started with a price tag of daily practice of three months and cannot be done via a two days seminars.

Yes, I agree, you have to have kung, that is just part of level of engine, once you have high level engine , style is just personality of individual , the problem is most try to copy personality of originator of the style as the engine.

[Hendrik]

John,

This is an excellent clip. Hope that it is in English with more explanation on how you take the force in to the jing yuan and reflex it out.

Thanks and appreciate for your shaing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QprtQ1-xhSs

[Hendrik]

Neijin or internal Jin is handling the six directional force vector. It is a technology of handling of force vector via body mechanics intention combination. Qi gung support the handling of force vector however qigong is not the center of the topic, instead qigong is in a supporting position of evolving the mind body to have a better handling.


Thus, due to different type of engine or Kung, there are different fajin type because the body mind has been condition or evolve in a different way.

For example, the fajin type such as hammering a nail. The fajin type such as falling steps. The fajin type such as rushing trusting forward . These are common fajin type. And after a long time of practice, the body mind evolve into something habitually use to a particular type of fajin . That is the engine.

If one take a look at cheng man ching clip, one can see his 4 phase of fajin. As for Chen xiao Wang clip, one can see a different types. There are lots can be study in this topic of internal force vector handling or I called six directional force. And this is a different topic from structure and qi and awareness. Which is often fuzzy up in the western world.

[greenmoon]

I did Chen Style and felt a certain type of fajin, very powerful no doubt. He let me feel his dantien as he released the jin.

Then I met a teacher that was Yang only and his long fajin felt very different, like a wave through my body even if my arms were limp like noodles. Very difficult to see externally but I could feel the jin as it moved through him when he let me touch. He said he only managed to be able to transmit the jin through limp arms in the last few years. His short jin made me drop on the spot.

Both teachers were powerful no doubt. Different feeling of power though.

I'm still trying to work out how to get the jin to bounce a partner with limp noodle arms.

[Hendrik]

I did Chen Style and felt a certain type of fajin, very powerful no doubt. He let me feel his dantien as he released the jin.

Then I met a teacher that was Yang only and his long fajin felt very different, like a wave through my body even if my arms were limp like noodles. Very difficult to see externally but I could feel the jin as it moved through him when he let me touch. He said he only managed to be able to transmit the jin through limp arms in the last few years. His short jin made me drop on the spot.

Both teachers were powerful no doubt. Different feeling of power though.

I'm still trying to work out how to get the jin to bounce a partner with limp noodle arms.

These stuffs are not that difficult to develop if one has the full instruction.

What happen for these things get into mysterious in the general case is, it starts with partial knowledge , then, missing steps or link, then using mysterious reasons to describe what one doesn't know at that point, it makes things even more confusing. Then it turns into some qi blast stories.


Thus, I brought up the 5 layers to classify and catarorized what is what to put things in their perspective. It is hopeless if we think keep training and one will get there. While one can't even grasp the basic elements of the five layers and what to do about it for very. Basic handling.

[Hendrik]

Imho The key of Chen taiji fajing engin is in the Cxw clip. The key of yang engine is clearly written in Cheng man Ching 13 chapter. It is an open secrete or no secrete. It is a matter of having a good foundation and know what to look in the five layers.

[imperialtaichi]

I'm still trying to work out how to get the jin to bounce a partner with limp noodle arms.

聽問拿放

During practice, the partner stiffens up the arms to let you develop the jing; but that's only the first half of the stories. Unfortunately, that's where most teacher are stuck on.

In real fight, the key is "Listen, Ask, Lock, Release." I am not a big fan of listen. Most top level practitioners does not border to listen anymore because they dominate the game.

If the opponent is not giving you anything, you ask for it. By dragging his power out, or a light "tap" to provoke a reaction. You must give the opponent enough time to react (typically 0.1sec to up to whole second). You must not rush it as you must wait for the opponent to reach maximum "consolidation". Timing must be spot on 奧妙盡在時機中.

Once the opponent is consolidated, locking and releasing is easy, just like during partner practice.

------

To experience what it's like about the timing: have yourself blind folded, then ask a friend to knock you slightly off balance. As you regain balance, there will be a moment when you are totally integrated. When you are dealing with an opponent, that's the moment you want to catch; just as he regains balance.

[greenmoon]

My Chen teacher was better at explaining and teaching fajin and I find it easier to observe in their practices. For instance (I know that CXW is the man but I find it easier to learn looking at Chen Yu as the connection through the body is easier for my amateur eye's to see):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_vcWq2GYXs

Chen Zhonghua too makes it easy to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Qcskv8cMQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Qcskv8cMQ)

For Yang I have seen and felt fajin more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5AdvqvZm6U

My former teacher has this sort of fajin (though he does not have the Chen fajin) but he himself admitted once that he isn't going to teach it to anyone in his school because it is what keeps him at the top. That admittance plus a few others influenced me to leave because I want to learn and improve.

As Hendrik mentioned "These stuffs are not that difficult to develop if one has the full instruction" and I believe this too. Problem is that not all teachers want to have their students get it, some just want the income stream and what's more I've had a few openly admit it.

One of my teachers after a few drinks even said to me that he has not even taught any of his most senior 40+ year students the full picture when it comes to fajin. This is not the first teacher that has alluded or said this straight out to me after a few drinks.

The teacher I had the most respect for was the one who said "mate...I wish I knew how to teach this...but it seems like even though I can do some cool stuff, I'm just a crappy teacher because none of my students are getting it." He then encouraged me to look around for teachers who could and would teach the goods. That teacher I'll always have respect for because he knew that I put in the hours (a minimum of 5 hours a day, standing, reeling, pressurizing) and he said that he just felt bad that he couldn't transmit the goods. I think it seriously demoralized him but we still keep in contact and he's still trying out new ways to teach.

I've traveled around to meet quite a few teachers in China, the U.S. Malaysia, Taiwan, Japan and Canada and some have been "big names" and while the teachers clearly were powerful I didn't see anywhere near the same level of refinement being cultivated in the senior students.

I always come into a school as a "white belt". Meaning that I'm not there to prove myself, I'm there to learn and to see what they can teach me. I speak respectfully and spend some time there, sometimes even a few years to see what I can learn.

I'm not bitter about this. It actually inspired me to just try and work things more out for myself and also to train more. Sure, I may only get a fraction of what is possible but it's got to the point in my life where I just love the training.

I know that my "internal strength" is getting better because I'm able to do more stuff without resorting to "external" tricks and angles and more using internal pressures. But as far as good Yang or Wu style fajin goes I wouldn't say I'm in the dark but I'm playing with matches instead of holding a maglight. It's just one of those things that I'd like to learn because it feels great receiving it.

[aussie1981]

Check out the clip "calligraphy grappling (chin na) dvd sample 2" for a look at some solo fajin from my sifu, not sure howto put a direct link to youtube sorry:o

[imperialtaichi]

As Hendrik mentioned "These stuffs are not that difficult to develop if one has the full instruction" and I believe this too. Problem is that not all teachers want to have their students get it, some just want the income stream and what's more I've had a few openly admit it.

One of my teachers after a few drinks even said to me that he has not even taught any of his most senior 40+ year students the full picture when it comes to fajin. This is not the first teacher that has alluded or said this straight out to me after a few drinks.

Selfish. Pure selfishness.

True, I can understand that not everyone should get the full passing of knowledge, but at least to the inner students knowledge should be passed on without reservations.

While everyone has a right to make a living out of their skills, but passing of knowledge is about heart and honour; not about dollar.

Any teachers, no matter how skilful, I will not learn from unless they are honourable. It's not worth selling out my principles for.

The two teachers who taught me the most, Master Wei and Master Leung, had never charged me money. True, I had pay them Red Pockets out of respect, but nothing substantial, yet both taught me without reservation. I had friends who paid tens of thousands of dollars to teachers who taught them crap.

My advice is to find someone else. True teachers are not after money, but heart.

[Hendrik]

Selfish. Pure selfishness.

True, I can understand that not everyone should get the full passing of knowledge, but at least to the inner students knowledge should be passed on without reservations.

While everyone has a right to make a living out of their skills, but passing of knowledge is about heart and honour; not about dollar.

Any teachers, no matter how skilful, I will not learn from unless they are honourable. It's not worth selling out my principles for.

The two teachers who taught me the most, Master Wei and Master Leung, had never charged me money. True, I had pay them Red Pockets out of respect, but nothing substantial, yet both taught me without reservation. I had friends who paid tens of thousands of dollars to teachers who taught them crap.

My advice is to find someone else. True teachers are not after money, but heart.

John,


My take is.

1. Often, things were not passed To not get into the wrong hand and missed used. For example, in the old slt set, there is a strike which is said to be strike at the front of the body and the damage penetrate on the back of the body. I think this strike has lost. But that is good that it was not missed used.

2. I agree on the selfishness. Also , I think it is in security. Also it could very likely, these people only knows some tricks or dead art instead of the alive art which get deeper and more every day one practice instead of the dead art which could do only a limit number of things, and once share, the magic is exposed.

3, I am not a yang practitioner, but using my level to observe this technology. There are only a few things. Most fajing seen is demo of force vector balancing. Where the body was train to synchronize partially These socalled fajin demo is not that usefull in real fighting because the in coming strike is beyon the demo frame. For the one which can
be used in fighting such as cheng man Ching, the three level and nine degree of Chen man Ching has to be attained. This is no longer demo trick but having a full engine develop. IMHO, student often are missed lead to have no true development in these three level. But side track into te demo tricks. Might learn or never learn the demo trick . But never get the real stuffs develop.

[greenmoon]

I've had to learn to develop better discernment in picking honorable teachers and in truth my experiences have burnt me a bit at least as far as joining up with a club. Instead I've sought out different teachers and paid for private lessons, to feel out the teacher, not just what internal skills they have but what their character is like. Unfortunately all the teachers (with internal skill) I've met have done their best to present a front where they are not in it for the money and when asked will assert that they hold none of the teachings back. I asked each of the teachers who admitted that they would not teach the whole picture and they all initially said that they would hold nothing back. It's only after I'd been there for a while and they had some wine or beer to loosen up did they admit that their plan all along was to hold stuff back and that the club was only an income stream. For the record, I and a few others were considered inner door too but this simply meant that we got to pay more money.

One of the guys I trained with left before I did after paying about $25,000 in fees over the course of a few years. This was for group classes 5 days a week. He told me the other day that he's gained more from training with me in 3 months and I'll openly admit that I'm nowhere near as good as that teacher was but I'm happy to share and train and I don't hold anything back with friends and I don't charge either. We just train to investigate the art, work on our discipline and enjoy the progression of training.

My main aim now is to just keep the training group going but I'm open to meeting good teachers and learning. I was semi interested in meeting a teacher who has started advertising on youtube as teaching a type of Yang style (Huang Sheng Shyan lineage) but then noticed on his website that his private lessons are $2000 and decided to pass.

[Vajramusti]

Green moon-that is sheer unadulterated greed that you encountered.

Hendrik- I am not really a fan of Cheng Man Ching. But to each his own.

joy

[Hendrik]

I've had to learn to develop better discernment in picking honorable teachers and in truth my experiences have burnt me a bit at least as far as joining up with a club. Instead I've sought out different teachers and paid for private lessons, to feel out the teacher, not just what internal skills they have but what their character is like. Unfortunately all the teachers (with internal skill) I've met have done their best to present a front where they are not in it for the money and when asked will assert that they hold none of the teachings back. I asked each of the teachers who admitted that they would not teach the whole picture and they all initially said that they would hold nothing back. It's only after I'd been there for a while and they had some wine or beer to loosen up did they admit that their plan all along was to hold stuff back and that the club was only an income stream. For the record, I and a few others were considered inner door too but this simply meant that we got to pay more money.

One of the guys I trained with left before I did after paying about $25,000 in fees over the course of a few years. This was for group classes 5 days a week. He told me the other day that he's gained more from training with me in 3 months and I'll openly admit that I'm nowhere near as good as that teacher was but I'm happy to share and train and I don't hold anything back with friends and I don't charge either. We just train to investigate the art, work on our discipline and enjoy the progression of training.

My main aim now is to just keep the training group going but I'm open to meeting good teachers and learning. I was semi interested in meeting a teacher who has started advertising on youtube as teaching a type of Yang style (Huang Sheng Shyan lineage) but then noticed on his website that his private lessons are $2000 and decided to pass.

1. IMHO, I brought up the five layers concept is to help one to sort out the needed details. So, one has a complete big picture on what is going on and where one is, in the training. Onlyy when one knows the full picture, the process, and where one is one can make a full sense of development.

2. I brought up the cheng man Ching three level and nine degree because if one really want to develop ones internal Kung fu, that tpye of equal training and development cannot be avoided. And it takes time. Fajing demo tricks are certainly great to learn to know how to balace force vectors ideally, however, if the engine is not develop, it is not that useful stuffs.

3. Money is a big thing, obviously, we all have to feed ourself. And obviously, no one is obligate to give ones treasure free to others. And some share because their interest is in passing down the art but not make a living. And not fr sell. So, it is ok for those collect money and carry the class they want to. It is a free word. One sign up for mutual agreement.

4. Could you share a conclusion on what has you learn on different type of fajing? What is the core of fajing in yang style for you? That way may be we can learn from you, may be John here can give us all an education which we don't have to pay $25000. But thanks John with full appreciation.

5. What do you think on Micheals Philips fa jing and punching demo? Do you think he can fajing? How close can you do if using him as reference?

[kung fu fighter]

For the one which can be used in fighting such as cheng man Ching, the three level and nine degree of Chen man Ching has to be attained. This is no longer demo trick but having a full engine develop. IMHO, student often are missed lead to have no true development in these three level. But side track into te demo tricks. Might learn or never learn the demo trick . But never get the real stuffs develop.

Hendrik,

Would you say cheng man Ching uses the levitating type snake engine (swimming in air)?

[Hendrik]

Hendrik,

Would you say cheng man Ching uses the levitating type snake engine (swimming in air)?

Different engine type.

[greenmoon]

4. Could you share a conclusion on what has you learn on different type of fajing? What is the core of fajing in yang style for you? That way may be we can learn from you, may be John here can give us all an education which we don't have to pay $25000. But thanks John with full appreciation.

5. What do you think on Micheals Philips fa jing and punching demo? Do you think he can fajing? How close can you do if using him as reference?

Interestingly, my Chen teachers said that the type of fajin that Michael Phillips does isn't really fajin and the Yang teachers I said said that what the Chen teachers do is just external.

For me I honesty don't care about the names and definitions and who owns what I'm just interested in the mechanics of the stuff and improving myself, physically, mentally and emotionally through the practice. I see or feel something that interests me in the martial arts and I want to discuss and learn it.

Anyways...

For both Chen and Yang fajin in my experience there is whole body connection and for me personally I've found that Chen made more sense to me for building that in me. It's been alluded to me that this is because Yang form hides it more and that was a light bulb moment for me because I did feel it in the good Yang teachers I met (not the students of course as I mentioned before).

The mechanics of the Chen fajin as I've examined it seems like a bend and release of the bows of the body, ie. legs, spine, arms with a brief store and release of the jin at the dan tien.

The way I practice it for both Yang and Chen I initiate from the Ming Men though I know some that initiate from the root. The Ming Men closes the Dan Tien expands, the jin rebounds from the ground and I issue keeping a connection from the dantien to the point of issuing.

The Chen guys that I felt fajin from felt shocky, like a lead pipe. The long power felt very solid, rooted and strong and the arms and hands were relatively soft but not as much as the Yang guys.

I've only felt the type of pulsing fajin from the Yang guys. It's harder to see with the better guys but the long jin feels like a wave that catches you, I practice it as an opening/expansion from the dantien. I'm not sure if this is "true" fajin but I'm interested in it because it's a way of expressing "jin" that I haven't nailed down yet.

As far as how close I can get to MP's fajin (I'm particularly drawn to the punching btw, might be powerful but it just isn't my thing but then again I haven't felt it). I find it simple if someone is feeding me force and I just rebound them. Easy too if they just keep neutral structure. Harder if they are loose and adept at changing and this is where I feel that the wave of jin can catch you even if you are loose - but I can't do it myself yet, I've just played around with those that can. What's interesting about this type of fajin (if someone can do it well) is that it doesn't have to push through me, it bounces me by just striking the surface of my body but feels relatively light.

[Vajramusti]

I dont know what all this has to do with wing chun.... and in the right hands it;s own explosive power.

Historically Chen style devloped it's fajin..the Yang's after the first two generations lost it...later when Chen began to be known outside of the mainland the Yahg stylists have been working on getting back into fajin.

MP used to live in Tucson. I have been with him in a CXW seminar during CXW's first US tour.

MP's fajin is against really compliant demo partners. He used to have several different demo tricks.

Friendly guy.

I sthis serious thread./ Are we having fun?

I think that for qigong MP is certified by Mantak Chia!!

[Hendrik]

Interestingly, my Chen teachers said that the type of fajin that Michael Phillips does isn't really fajin and the Yang teachers I said said that what the Chen teachers do is just external.

For me I honesty don't care about the names and definitions and who owns what I'm just interested in the mechanics of the stuff and improving myself, physically, mentally and emotionally through the practice. I see or feel something that interests me in the martial arts and I want to discuss and learn it.



As far as how close I can get to MP's fajin (I'm particularly drawn to the punching btw, might be powerful but it just isn't my thing but then again I haven't felt it).

I find it simple if someone is feeding me force and I just rebound them. Easy too if they just keep neutral structure. Harder if they are loose and adept at changing

and this is where I feel that the wave of jin can catch you even if you are loose - but I can't do it myself yet, I've just played around with those that can.

What's interesting about this type of fajin (if someone can do it well) is that it doesn't have to push through me, it bounces me by just striking the surface of my body but
feels relatively light.


1. Thanks and appreciate for your in depth sharing.

2. Fajing is a complex subject, isn't it?

3. IMHO, Yang or Chen if the engine is not develop, yang can do the force balacing demo, chen can show the shake, but real life power cannot be generate. And most people never really develop their engine. So yang guys thought the force balancing is internal, and chen guys thought the shake is power. Yang thought Chen is external. And Chen thought yang does do it. But the fact is both doesn't have it.

4. IMHO. MP knows force vector balancing demo tricks. However, doesn't know how to do combat yang fajing. His YouTube in punching is the evidence of his development.

5. IMHO, I don't believe in brief store and release of the jin at the dan tien. And, initiate from the Ming Men though I know some that initiate from the root. The Ming Men closes the Dan Tien expands, the jin rebounds from the ground and I issue keeping a connection from the dantien to the point of issuing. I think this is a sound theory but it is a hinderance to get to the real deal. As Cxw said, one doesn't use frame once one get it.

As it is said in cheng man Ching writing.

我有一語，今為智者吐：. I have a word . Now telling the wise one.
湧泉無根腰無主，力學垂死終無補。 yoong chuan point is no root ,waist is no master, mechanics analysis to death do nothing much.

Thus, look at hundred of thousand of people following the Dan dien fajing theory but how many really get it? None in the reality. Also, the three Dan dien theory are bogus, some one some how try to link the daoist stuffs blindly into martial art and cause even more trouble.

Believe it or not in 1800, the Chinese has clearly sort out these dan dian and jin stuffs , but some how the real deal never get to the public.

[Hendrik]

I dont know what all this has to do with wing chun.... and in the right hands it;s own explosive power.

Historically Chen style devloped it's fajin..the Yang's after the first two generations lost it...later when Chen began to be known outside of the mainland the Yahg stylists have been working on getting back into fajin.

MP used to live in Tucson. I have been with him in a CXW seminar during CXW's first US tour.

MP's fajin is against really compliant demo partners. He used to have several different demo tricks.

Friendly guy.

I sthis serious thread./ Are we having fun?

I think that for qigong MP is certified by Mantak Chia!!


IMHO,

1. Fajing is force vector generating, it doesn't come with wing Chun or taiji brand name. It
is physics.

2. Yang always has its fajing, never lost. Yang fajing is closed to WCK. Yang Jin is inch Jin. Meaning it issue within a few inch.

3. Mp is a good taiji for health teacher . Real life combat Taiji fajing is a different animal.

[Vajramusti]

IMHO,

1. Fajing is force vector generating, it doesn't come with wing Chun or taiji brand name. It
is physics.

((Sure. Physics. Applied physics- can have different applications. Wing chun application need not be and isn't taiji))Joy

2. Yang always has its fajing, never lost.

((Depends. Opinions vary)) joy

Yang fajing is closed to WCK. Yang Jin is inch Jin. Meaning it issue within a few inch.

((Close but so far!!!))joy

3. Mp is a good taiji for health teacher .

((many paths to good health))Joy

Real life combat Taiji fajing is a different animal.

((Surely)) Joy