emphasis: Shuai, Na, Ti, Da

[MightyB]

What do you focus on?

Personally I'm getting more focused on shuai and na. The reason is that it's what I think is relevant in society today.

IMO, why traditional arts get a bad name is that they focused on Ti and Da in a time when you actually could focus on Ti and Da. What I mean is that there is truth to the too deadly argument. In order to demonstrate Ti and Da as a self defense skill as taught in TCMA, you'd have to allow for temple, throat, eye and groin strikes at the very least. That can't be done in today's society - so, you end up trying to use sportive striking techniques which aren't really that efficient for ending a fight quickly.

[YouKnowWho]

There is always a lucky punch, there will never be a lucky throw. Your throwing skill will go with your into your old age and you can always depend on it.

[SPJ]

yes in a fight

we always want a direct and quick response.

and end fight fast with a few moves.

punch and kicks are direct and fast approaches.

na and shuai need more requirements or elements to work.

there are many counters, too.

na is usually transcient due to counters

throws may be countered in many ways, too.

I remember that there was a Taiwan's san shou champion. When he got old but still needed to defend his title.

He opted for punch to KO. He did not have the endurance anymore to last for too long in rounds.

He needed to punch and end fight ASAP.

:)

[RonBlair]

Honestly, I believe tcma would be better off spending most of their time developing these skills instead of doing the things that cause mma people make fun of them.

[YouKnowWho]

Honestly, I believe tcma would be better off spending most of their time developing these skills instead of doing the things that cause mma people make fun of them.

Agree! There are about

- 10 different punches,
- 20 different kicks,
- 50 different locks,
- 400 different throws.

If we just train those moves, we don't have to worry about "style" at all.

[RonBlair]

Agree! There are about

- 10 different punches,
- 20 different kicks,
- 50 different locks,
- 400 different throws.

If we just train those moves, we don't have to worry about "style" at all.

And not just train them in the air as forms but on real people.

[YouKnowWho]

And not just train them in the air as forms but on real people.
If you

- have partner then train with partner.
- don't have partner then train with equipments (heavy bag, single head, weight pulley, ...) or solo (solo training is just partner training without partner).

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7958/canebundle.jpg

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5167/singleheadbow.jpg

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9546/weightpulley4.jpg

[TenTigers]

throwing involves falling, and everyone should know how to fall safely.
It's one thing to focus just on your striking skills for whatever reasons you may have, but to neglect falling only means that when you do fall, or get taken down, you will not be able to recover-hence, your striking skills will be made useless.

[YouKnowWho]

The nice thing about this approach is you don't have to say that "hook punch" is not in my style. You can learn "hook punch" from any system. You can even learn "flying knee" from MT if you want to.

[RonBlair]

throwing involves falling, and everyone should know how to fall safely.
It's one thing to focus just on your striking skills for whatever reasons you may have, but to neglect falling only means that when you do fall, or get taken down, you will not be able to recover-hence, your striking skills will be made useless.

Learning to fall is implied when learning Shuai skills is it not? It doesn't need to be mentioned specifically.

[wenshu]

If you

- have partner then train with partner.
- don't have partner then train with equipments (heavy bag, single head, weight pulley, ...) or solo (solo training is just partner training without partner).

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7958/canebundle.jpg

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5167/singleheadbow.jpg



YKW;

What are some other SJ pulley drills like this one?

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9546/weightpulley4.jpg

[TenTigers]

Learning to fall is implied when learning Shuai skills is it not? It doesn't need to be mentioned specifically.
depends whom you're talking to...

[YouKnowWho]

YKW;

What are some other SJ pulley drills like this one?

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9546/weightpulley4.jpg
Whenever that I go to gym, I always work on weight pulley 300 reps (55 lb both hands, 45 lb single hand).

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/5606/weightpulley2.jpg

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8484/weightpulley3.jpg

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/5728/weightpulley1.jpg

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4936/pulley2.jpg

[RonBlair]

depends whom you're talking to...

Point me to a wrestling school that doesnt teach falling. You have to teach falling if you're doing actual throws on people. Otherwise they'd all get effed up. In judo all you do is get thrown around your first day to practice rolling, break falls, and to condition your mind/body to the sudden impact.

[MightyB]

In judo all you do is get thrown around your first day to practice rolling, break falls, and to condition your mind/body to the sudden impact.

Kinda'sorta - First day when I instruct is to have them do a ton of solo breakfalls. Broken up with bits of fun like a basic tai sabaki drill, something I call Nose to the Toes, and a first feeler for Kazushi. We don't throw 'em until they can demonstrate that they can do a safe breakfall. I'll also try to show a basic pin and escape drill and have them get into Newaza Randori ASAP - often on day 1. Reason being - if they don't have fun and don't get a good workout, they won't come back.

[YouKnowWho]

Kinda'sorta - First day when I instruct is to have them do a ton of solo breakfalls. Broken up with bits of fun like a basic tai sabaki drill, something I call Nose to the Toes, and a first feeler for Kazushi. We don't throw 'em until they can demonstrate that they can do a safe breakfall. I'll also try to show a basic pin and escape drill and have them get into Newaza Randori ASAP - often on day 1. Reason being - if they don't have fun and don't get a good workout, they won't come back.

In SC you don't spend too much time training break fall. You pretty much learn it when you are thrown.

The following training is more for developing "sacrisfice throw".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL6WwUr08Yg

[RonBlair]

Kinda'sorta - First day when I instruct is to have them do a ton of solo breakfalls. Broken up with bits of fun like a basic tai sabaki drill, something I call Nose to the Toes, and a first feeler for Kazushi. We don't throw 'em until they can demonstrate that they can do a safe breakfall. I'll also try to show a basic pin and escape drill and have them get into Newaza Randori ASAP - often on day 1. Reason being - if they don't have fun and don't get a good workout, they won't come back.

Solo break falls and rolls were a given. I just don't believe tentigers assertion that there are throwing schools that don't teach falling. Maybe he wasn't saying that. I don't know.

[Dale Dugas]

There are some schools where you learn to fall not doing roll outs and slap outs, which can actually cause you harm.

In Shuai Jiao you relax and assume a fetal position with the arms protecting your head, and try to land on the side of your body to break the fall.

Basically I dont worry I just relax and bounce.

I also train my throws more as they are a great way to take someone out.

I do not kick above the waist much so I dont have to worry about stretching and spending valuable time sitting in splits.

[TenTigers]

no, what I was saying is that there are people who do not do throws in their system.
Even if they do not focus on throws, they should still learn how to fall properly.
True, it would be a given that if you are learning to throw, you will certainly be training falls as well.
However, I have been to schools that taught take-downs, and their students did not know how to fall. Ridiculous in my book, but nonetheless, these schools exist.

[YouKnowWho]

However, I have been to schools that taught take-downs, and their students did not know how to fall. Ridiculous in my book, but nonetheless, these schools exist.

I have seen schools as TenTigers's described. IMO, everybody should learn "break fall". It may save you from having a hip replacement when you get into your old age.

My wife has black belt in TKD. When she came to my class, the 1st time that I threw her and found out that she didn't know how to fall was quite surprised to me. After that day, I don't assume that any black belt owner has knowledge in falling.

[SPJ]

1. my fave of getting up from fall

black dragon encircling pillar

wu long jiao zhu.

2. my brothers like

coy fish flipping up

li yu da ting.

:cool:

[Dragonzbane76]

A lot of traditional schools don't focus enough on falls/throws/takedowns. There are some I've been to that don't even teach throws, or just kinda brush over them and expect people to automatically grasp them without doing them. Big problem in the traditional community if you ask me.