PDA

View Full Version : ironfist view on protein, vegetarianism



shaolin_knight
06-19-2001, 10:58 PM
First of all I am a "lacto-vegetarian" according to the people that coin these terms I guess. I allow dairy products in my diet, although I don't eat or drink much dairy. I am active in Kung Fu, weight training, and my everyday life is just active itself. I don't count grams of protein, fat, carbs, etc. or calories. I have been a vegetarian for many years, it doesn't matter why. I don't have a dictionary handy, but I'm pretty sure you're not a vegetarian if you eat meat. Meat is flesh, muscle of animals such as fish, cows, pigs. You can build muscle without eating muscle. Our bodies are able to make protein out of amino acids, and muscle fibers out of protein. When you eat meat, beans, or any other food with protein, your body breaks it down to amino acids. It then uses these to make proteins it needs, for muscles and many other functions that most people don't even know about. I am not a "body builder". Body builders train to make their muscles grow, fill with sarcoplasm, a liquid made of glycogen used for energy. So they pump their muscles, drain their energy source and tear down the muscle by over stressing it. They refuel their body with carbs. Your body uses carbs for an energy source. It will make glycogen, low carb diet or not, because the type of training used by body builders uses a lot of energy and tells the body "more glyogen, please". Yes, your body also needs protein to repair the damaged muscle. So if you are a body builder, then get a lot of protein. Like Ironfist said, 1g/lb of body weight. But, as an athlete, you do not need to take up body building unless your particular sport/hobby requires great mass, like some positions in football. It can be good for wrestlers too, because they need all those stores of glycogen to wrestle for a long time and not get worn out. The way I train, it's for strength. Many of us are real confused about strength training, we confuse it with bodybuilding because that's what the media pushes on us. Read Pavel Tsatsouline's book, "Power to the People". Very short and simple, yes. But he will not try to pump you up and give you some confidence/ego booster. If you need that, fine. Train for it. That does not mean the rest of us, who could care less about body building, need to follow your rules for training. I do not require that much protein, and I do not require bulk. But I do require strength. So I must also make my muscle fibers stronger, which uses some protein, but not as much as you would think. Like I said before, I am a vegetarian. If I eat only legumes, for example, I will be missing certain amino acids that the body cannot produce itself. But if I eat a wide variety of plant based protein, I get all these amino acids. They don't have to be eaten at the same time. The same day is fine. I have taken the body building approach, and gained some mass fast. on a vegetarian diet. Say superior genetics or whatever, but that's not true. If you take in too much protein (more than your body needs), your kidneys filter it out. More water intake or not, this is stressful to your kidneys. More water intake just makes it a lot less stressful. So evaluate how much protein your body needs, not based on others needs, but on the type of training you do. Vegetarians can be very healthy, and many are great athletes. You must educate yourself on the diet first, though. Getting all the things you need minus the things you don't need is much healthier. No cholesterol, a low amount of saturated fats, no poisons (hormones, steroids, etc.). Healthy indeed. We watch what we are doing and eating. We are not stupid. If you saw me, you wouldn't know I was a vegetarian. I think almost everyone that finds out is shocked. Even people that have known me for a long time. They have to sit there and think if they can remember me eating meat or not. Some long time friends still say it's hard for them to believe I'm vegetarian. You can't tell us apart from any other healthy person, unless you watch us eat. A healthy person is a healthy person. Vegetarian life is just one way to get there.

Brian_CA
06-20-2001, 12:00 AM
Nice post Shaolin-Knight.

As a Yoga instructor I here this debate all the time. Veggie or Meat-eater. The only thing that I can impart on the subject is what a very reputable doctor told me on the subject over coffee one day.

While the vegetarian diet can be a healthy one, over time without the proper supplement of protein and iron your body will begin to eat itself after a period of 10 years on the diet. The proteins contained within animal protein is very concentrated. It is very difficult to replace them with beans and other plant products. The iron contained within animal protein is also hard to replace with plant products. While you can nowadays replace them with supplements such as amino fuel, you will have a hard time getting the proper amount through purely plant products.

Excess protein, however is not filtered out by the kidneys. It is stored in the body as fat. One can only eat a certain amount of protein per serving before the body will not accept it anymore. Therefore, since the body tries not to waste anything it may be able to use it stores it as fat. Most people over eat in one sitting and never do any proper exercise to work off that fat. In addition, anything that the body cannot absorb, will carried into the small and large intestines. When people really over eat and become constipated that excess stays in the colon and begins to fester.

It is the festering mass which can cause the whole system to back up. Kind of like a sewer backing up. This generally causes the immune system to work overtime. Leaving the body venerable to disease. (i.e., flu, cancer, etc.)

This process can also happen to vegetarians. The idea is to get to proper nutrients that the body needs without over doing or UNDER doing. The whole process depends on your body.

Before starting any kind of diet consult your physician.

Hope this helps.

Brian
San Francisco, CA

"Hard exertion and extreme relaxation are the keys to the kingdom of health."
Buddha Bose

Fu-Pow
06-20-2001, 12:25 AM
Do you know how many nutrition classes doctors take in medschool...count them....1? Yes that's right one, one quarter. I think a doctor would be the last person I would consult on nutrition. They may know pharmaceuticals, but they are not nutritionists. Dead doctors don't lie.
More to follow....

Fu-Pow
http://www.makskungfu.com/images/Graphics/logo.gif
"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee

Brian_CA
06-20-2001, 04:07 PM
The Doctor which I spoke with is in sports medicine. She is one of the the leading nutritionist in her field and one of the top applied kineisologist in the country. I think she is fairly qualifed to give accurate answers on the subject.

Brian
San Francisco,CA

IronFist
06-22-2001, 07:16 AM
quotes from shaolin_knight:

"First of all I am a "lacto-vegetarian" according to the people that coin these terms I guess."

First of all, that was one long ass paragraph :)

"I'm pretty sure you're not a vegetarian if you eat meat."

I would assume so. I don't eat beef, as in cow, but still chicken and fish and etc., so I don't consider myself a vegetarian.

"Meat is flesh, muscle of animals such as fish, cows, pigs. You can build muscle without eating muscle. Our bodies are able to make protein out of amino acids, and muscle fibers out of protein."

True, however, it is much more effecient for humans to get protein from meat than from other sources.

"When you eat meat, beans, or any other food with protein, your body breaks it down to amino acids. It then uses these to make proteins it needs, for muscles and many other functions that most people don't even know about."

Since you know so much, enlighten us as to what these "other functions" are.

"I am not a "body builder". Body builders train to make their muscles grow, fill with sarcoplasm, a liquid made of glycogen used for energy."

As soon as you said the word "sarcoplasm," I knew you had read "Power to the People."

"So they pump their muscles, drain their energy source and tear down the muscle by over stressing it. They refuel their body with carbs. Your body uses carbs for an energy source. It will make glycogen, low carb diet or not, because the type of training used by body builders uses a lot of energy and tells the body "more glyogen, please". Yes, your body also needs protein to repair the damaged muscle. So if you are a body builder, then get a lot of protein."

True. But in my opinion, I think most active people need lots of protein, especially BB's or anyone trying to build muscle.

"Like Ironfist said, 1g/lb of body weight. But, as an athlete, you do not need to take up body building unless your particular sport/hobby requires great mass, like some positions in football."

True.


"Many of us are real confused about strength training, we confuse it with bodybuilding because that's what the media pushes on us."

Good call dude. It's amazing how many people think bodybuilders are the strongest people around.

"Read Pavel Tsatsouline's book, "Power to the People". Very short and simple, yes. But he will not try to pump you up and give you some confidence/ego booster."

I have that book :) Actually, the section on "bear training" is designed to "pump you up," although it's not as detailed as the rest of the book.

"If you need that, fine. Train for it. That does not mean the rest of us, who could care less about body building, need to follow your rules for training."

I haven't known a single person who has increased to 1g/lb and not noticed improvement. I'm not saying you have to do it my way, I'm just contributing my own opinions/experiences.

"If you take in too much protein (more than your body needs), your kidneys filter it out. More water intake or not, this is stressful to your kidneys."

Yes. But as I always say initially in my posts, before people start challenging me, is that you only need crazy amounts of protein is you are trying to build muscle.

"No cholesterol, a low amount of saturated fats, no poisons (hormones, steroids, etc.). Healthy indeed."

Ok, I'm the first person to admit bodybuilders, especially when bulking, are not the healthiest eaters around. In fact, most pros in today's age are not healthy at all! However, if you are going to list "steroids" as a "poison," I think you should also include "tobacco" as a poison, because studies show it's worse for you than most steroids. Not that I endorse them, but contrary to what the government will have to believe no one has ever died from steroids.

"We watch what we are doing and eating. We are not stupid. If you saw me, you wouldn't know I was a vegetarian. I think almost everyone that finds out is shocked. Even people that have known me for a long time. They have to sit there and think if they can remember me eating meat or not. Some long time friends still say it's hard for them to believe I'm vegetarian. You can't tell us apart from any other healthy person, unless you watch us eat."

I can't tell if this whole post was aimed to insult me or not. Either way, you have some good points. While I don't choose to be a vegetarian, if it suits your needs than by all means, do it! However, most of the vegetarians I know hardly get any protein, so if I seemed to come down hard to vegetarians, it is because of that.

Iron

Lost_Disciple
06-23-2001, 05:27 AM
Hey Ironman, one quick question- didn't want to start another thread. I'm having a big problem taking in 1g/pound of bodyweight of protein. I can hit maybe 180 and then I get the sh!ts. I know you didn't want to read that. I weigh between 225 and 235, with about 19.5% bodyfat, give or take 3%. I'm not slim, but I'm not really a couch potato, I work out alot, I just like to eat. I have a real hard time consuming that much protein in 5 small meals. Any advice?
I've got:
protein powder- at 30g a serving.
powerbar protein bars at 24g a piece.
canned tuna at 33g a piece.
canned salmon at 24g a piece.
boneless chicken breasts at about 30g

Normally, I stick with a powerbar, a chicken breast, and 2 protein shakes- but that's only 114g. Most of the time, if I try to add tuna or salmon, I get physically ill.

Oh yah, on a side note- I thought the body's attempt at getting rid of excess protein was the reason it ups the growth hormone production to create more muscle cells to absorb the protein; the rest being flushed out by the liver. I've never read a study that excess protein turns to fat. Not implying that you said this, but someone else did earlier.

Anywayz, thanks

IronFist
06-23-2001, 08:48 AM
Quotes here from Lost_Diciple.

"Hey Ironman, one quick question- didn't want to start another thread. I'm having a big problem taking in 1g/pound of bodyweight of protein. I can hit maybe 180 and then I get the sh!ts. I know you didn't want to read that. I weigh between 225 and 235, with about 19.5% bodyfat, give or take 3%."

Well, honestly in my opinion, I would be more concerned with losing bodyfat right now rather than packing on the muscle. Unfortunately, you kind of have to pick one. Contrary to what infomercials will have you believe, it is IMPOSSIBLE to both build muscle and burn significant amounts of fat at the same time. This is why bodybuilders bulk up in the off season (gaining tons of muscle, but fat too), and then diet down for a contest (lose fat, preserve muscle).

As I have said, the 1g/lb thing is really only necessary if you are trying to build muscle. If you are dieting right now, 180g a day would be fine. Keep in mind, if you are hardcore dieting bodybuilder style (which is unhealthy), then you still need tons of protein, but for the average person's intents and purposes, 180g for you will be fine. Also keep in mind that with the stats you gave, that means about 43 pounds on you is fat.

"I'm not slim, but I'm not really a couch potato, I work out alot, I just like to eat. I have a real hard time consuming that much protein in 5 small meals. Any advice?
I've got:
protein powder- at 30g a serving.
powerbar protein bars at 24g a piece.
canned tuna at 33g a piece.
canned salmon at 24g a piece.
boneless chicken breasts at about 30g
Normally, I stick with a powerbar, a chicken breast, and 2 protein shakes- but that's only 114g. Most of the time, if I try to add tuna or salmon, I get physically ill."

First, after you finish your current stash of protein bars, don't buy anymore. Even at walmart they are expensive. I used to think protein bars were the coolest thing in the world, but i've since changed my mind. A can of tuna and salmon are almost no fat, almost no carbs, so it's a very good protein souce (especially for dieting!). It's good to get at least 30g of protein every 3 hours or so, so you can supplement with tuna or salmon or a shake inbetween meals. I'm not going to prescribe a diet for you, but I'm sure you know that the ONLY way to lose weight is to burn more calories than you consume. Eating substantial protein will help ensure that it is not muscle your body is burning. I don't know how much cardio and such you are doing, but if you want a recommendation then just reply. Other than that, I'm sure you know what "bad" foods you eat, so, stop eating them! You can give yourself one cheat day (meal)per week, but no more. Again, this is just my personal opinion, as with the stats you provided, I would mostly focus on reducing bodyfat % right now. If you do, as I stated above, you're not going to be setting any strength records right now. Just keep the training intense to maintain muscle, along with adaquate protein intake.

"Oh yah, on a side note- I thought the body's attempt at getting rid of excess protein was the reason it ups the growth hormone production to create more muscle cells to absorb the protein; the rest being flushed out by the liver."

As far as I know, excreting excess protein has nothing to do with growth hormone release.

"I've never read a study that excess protein turns to fat. Not implying that you said this, but someone else did earlier."

Your body may store it. The same way you store fat or carbs. That's what I said in another post. The body much prefers carbs and fat for energy, however, so you won't be using much protein for energy.

"Anywayz, thanks"

No problem dude, hope I helped.

Iron

shaolin_knight
06-23-2001, 02:12 PM
This post wasn't against you at all. I posted it for anyone interested to take something from it. I get asked "how do you get protein" every time someone finds out I'm a vegetarian. So I sort of vented a little. I think you have cool posts, I find them interesting. Your right about tobacco, definately. My comment on the body using proteins for other functions, I meant it uses the -amino acids- from protein for other things besides making protein for muscles. One thing's for sure though, I get enough protein. I eat four to five "mini-meals" I guess you can call them, throughout the day. High in protein, high in carbs. That's what works for me. I suppose if I was a meat eater, with all that extra fat in my diet, I would probably eat less carbs so my body could put that fat to use. Whatever anyone's preferences in food are, be healthy, be strong.

Stranger
06-23-2001, 03:19 PM
Shaolin Knight,

If you are consuming dairy, you are still getting all of the pesticides, steroids, etc. found in beef. Body toxins readily store in fat cells. Whether it is a human female breast or a cow utter (sp.?), it is mainly composed of fat and what it secretes is of a high fat content. Most of the maladies you think you are avoiding by giving up meat, can actually be caused by dairy as well.

I do eat dairy. I would like to quit, but it makes finding food when you are out much more difficult.

"Luminous beings are we."

[This message was edited by Stranger on 06-24-01 at 06:36 AM.]

Lost_Disciple
06-24-2001, 03:08 AM
You got me, losing body fat % is exactly what I'm going after. A nutritionist I know said that 1g/lb bodyweight was what you wanted to consume for weightloss and that 1.5 was if you wanted to bulk up.

My diet directly correlates to my daily routine. If I have a consistant daily routine, my diet is easy to manage. If not, I tend to eat with my free time. I'm a student in college, so the routine has been my biggest challenge, and the key to getting in better shape.

Eventhough I got a pretty good deal on my protein bars (16 bux for 12); I'm going to follow your advice, because tuna and salmon are so much cheaper. I also need to get some Hellman's non-fat mayo to make it more edible. Unfortunately though, anything more than a couple cans of tuna a day makes me sick of the stuff real quick.

My workouts lately have been inconsistant. I mean I'm consistantly working out- but I am helping my friend get in shape for a competition. So I'll usually end up doing the weights he wants to work on that day. Afterwards, either I'm holding the bag for him, training my own techniques, or wrestling/sparring with him. We also do some distance runs (30 minutes +) throughout the week and we're moving up to wind sprints twice a week.

I plan to overhaul my workout plan after this upcoming weekend- he goes back to taiwan and I stay here. I'm thinking of starting either the 8 weeks pre-competition schedule or the beginner's workout that both appear in the Idiot's Guide to Kickboxing, cowritten by Guy Mezger. In there is a 3 day a week weight training program, as well as running and kickboxing guidelines. Overall, you end up working out 6 times a week on either program.

Thanks again.

David
06-24-2001, 12:14 PM
IronFist (I'm not doing personal attacks either ;-)

AFAIK, the only efficiency advantage in obtaining protein from meat is in time spent eating because you have to eat more plants to get the same amount of protein.
My gut reaction (haha) is to call that an unhealthy shortcut rather than an increase in efficiency...

PS Hey, I've put on 5 pounds since going vegan and upping my training 6 weeks ago (and it ain't fat). And it wasn't from balancing a yank-style steak on my head ;-)

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

dumog93
06-24-2001, 06:03 PM
Without going into a debate over the two,i would like to see some pics/strength stats of some the vegans on the power side of things if anyone has any out there.I eat a variety of things and am in no way a vegan,but would be interested in seeing some results of them if possible.All the power athletes i know eat as much as two normal(mostly sedentary) individuals.I'm just wondering what a normal strength/size range is for those of you that avoid meat and dairy out there.

-Devildog

wujidude
06-24-2001, 08:09 PM
Hey Brian in San Francisco--

What did the good doctor tell you about the pros and cons of caffeine? Any information will be much appreciated.

Thanks.

David
06-25-2001, 12:04 PM
Dumog93, I ain't particularly photogenic but I'll be closely monitoring myself in terms of health, weight and power development over the coming months.

I'll be on this board and will report my findings as and when. I do not intend to stay vegan if I get weak or sick but my confidence is high.

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

harry_the_monk
06-25-2001, 04:22 PM
I am definately not photogenic either, but I have put on loads of muscle since cutting out meat/fish,(Training has increased as well as the amount of food I have eaten also.) I know I said I had gone vegan a while ago, but I am just too paranoid to give up the dairy products, I have however just cut down to about 1.5 kilos of yoghurt a week and a couple of pints of skimmed milk.

If I can find someone with a camera, I would take a photo, but then I tried posting a photo before, and it still hasn't come out yet...All I know is that I'm getting people commenting on my body now.

Lost_Disciple
06-25-2001, 04:57 PM
I don't know if the first time I got it checked, whether or not the girl did it right, but I just got my bodyfat %age checked yesterday. She checked each measurement like 4 or 5 times to make sure she was getting consistant results. My official reading is now 15.5% (down from 19.5%). I know it's higher than heck, I'd like to be about 5 or 6; but at least it isn't quite as borderline.

Brian_CA
06-25-2001, 05:01 PM
wujidude,

Well, I seem to remember the lecture she gave me for drinking too much of it. It generally is bad for you. Caffeine is murder on your adrenal glands and kidneys. Too much will also send your endrocrine system into overload. Thereby affecting how your other systems work. It can greatly affect your digestive and urinary systems, not mention your central nervous system.

However, I just can't seem to give up my cup of coffee in the morning. Although I no longer drink caffeine throughout the day anymore.

Brian
San Francisco

IronFist
06-26-2001, 06:12 AM
"I know it's higher than heck, I'd like to be about 5 or 6; but at least it isn't quite as borderline. "

Um... if you get your bf down that low for extended periods of time, it will be unhealthy. Even pro BB'ers only keep it that low for a day or so, maybe a week tops. Healthy-low is like 8 or 9. Abs become visible at 10 (that's the general rule).

Iron

David
06-26-2001, 11:39 AM
How do you calculate body-fat % without taking somebody apart or cooking them?

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

Fu-Pow
06-26-2001, 06:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The Doctor which I spoke with is in sports medicine. She is one of the the leading nutritionist in her field and one of the top applied kineisologist in the country. I think she is fairly qualifed to give accurate answers on the subject.[/quote]

Name and publications please......

Fu-Pow
http://makskungfu.com/images/R7star.gif
"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee

Brian_CA
06-26-2001, 08:14 PM
Fu-Pow

Her Name is Doctor Lise Parenteau of Applied Kinesiology of San Francisco. She practices Chiropractic, Applied Kinesiology, Nutrition, supplemantation, Health and Fitness. She has an excellent track record with all of the above. In addition has unparrelled reputation within the medical community both in San Francisco and throughout the United States.

Brian
San Francisco, CA

Lost_Disciple
06-26-2001, 08:19 PM
I meant 5 or 6% for competition. My friend that I've been helping train told me that, on average, san shou fighters in Taiwan have 5 or 6% bf for competition.

10% would be niiiice....I don't think I've seen my abs since I was 16.

Thinking about taking an electricity or water test to get a more accurate bf reading than the good ole' caliper.
.

IronFist
06-26-2001, 08:55 PM
Lost, well, I don't know because I've never seen a Taiwan San Shou competition, but that sounds a little bit low even for fighting. But if you have seen them, 5 or 6% generally looks like this: very prominent muscle definition, including very visible striations, extreme vascularity, a very defined jaw line. Again, since I've never seen them I wouldn't know for sure how they are, but most people at 5 or 6% would be too dehydrated to fight hard. Most UFC'ers are well over 10%.

But, good luck with your bf reduction. Going from 15 to 10 is easier than going from 10-7. The lower you get, the harder it is to reduce it further.

Iron

harry_the_monk
06-27-2001, 02:04 PM
Way I found of giving up the caffein was by substituting it for ginger tea instead. Then its easier to come off ginger tea(or just to have the odd cup from time to time.)

Peace...

dumog93
07-01-2001, 05:40 PM
I know way too many people who state they are 10% bodyfat or below to believe everyone i hear that from.Most of these people are either exaggerating or possibly using faulty measurement techniques like fatfold calipers and the like.For instance,I have next to no fat on my arms,but still have a little around the edges of my abs.If i took a fatfold caliper measurement off my arms and let that stand,i would likely be around 7% give or take a percentage,but am actually closer to about 10-12%.The only ways i know to measure inside of a percent are either to weigh in the water(and compare it to out of the water weight) and some electrical means that i haven't used before.In short i find it hard to digest that all these people are 5-6% bodyfat as that is almost unattainable and fairly unhealthy for extended periods.Even wrestlers,who we know are to the extreme in diet and fasting,usually lie somewhere in the 6-10 range.I hear 5% i automatically think the guy is a moron and is hurting himself(and getting weaker)or is completely full of beans.

-Devildog

Hieu Nguyen
07-01-2001, 08:52 PM
Hey ironfist could you recommend me a good diet to go by I just cant seem to lose the gut.
I do resistance training 3-5 day per week, not heavy just enough to do the exercises correctly. and I train MA 5 days per week.
I wouldn't mind becoming a vegetarian though?

IronFist
07-01-2001, 09:57 PM
The general rule is that abs become visible at 10%. This varies for everyone a little, tho.

Iron

origenx
07-04-2001, 06:51 PM
I've been tested for bodyfat % at 5% before. Frankly, I think 7-10% is a healthier range. 5% is too low.

Competitive fighters only plummet that low temporarily to fight in a lower wt class.

wujidude
07-04-2001, 10:59 PM
I've done a lot more research on caffeine, pouring through both original reports and abstracts. It's amazingly bad for you . . . I'll try the ginger tea. It's supposed to be good for digestion, too.

BTW, I've heard of Dr. Parenteau. She's well-respected up and down the West Coast, according to friends who work in the health care professions.

shaolin_knight
07-05-2001, 09:25 AM
to the guy that said dairy is bad for you, I eat almost no dairy. it's just in a few odd foods I occasionally(sp) eat. I just don't make a big deal about it. I don't eat any other animal products though, including gelatin.

David
07-05-2001, 10:46 AM
My favourite book so far on veganism is:

Becoming Vegan
-The complete Guide to Adopting a Healthy Plant-Based Diet.

Brenda Davis, R.D. & Vesanto Melina, M.S., R.D.

Book Pulishing Company, Summertown, Tennessee.
ISBN 1-57067-103-6

£14.99 (that's what I paid)
$16.95

It has lots on sports diets and one hell of a lot of background research and references and even weblinks.

The powers of Kung Fu never fail!
-- Hong Kong Phooey

Lost_Disciple
10-01-2001, 11:24 PM
TTT

Another post for background on the discussion. Still looking for the reference I was talking about tho.
.

Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

prana
10-02-2001, 02:14 AM
horses, cows, elephants are just a tiny few of the most amazingly strong animals I can name. They eat grass :)

And their teeth look like human teeth minus the two odd ones out (on humans that is)...

heheh not debating, just a thought :)

Lost_Disciple
10-02-2001, 04:40 AM
If you think about it though, they're not eating the typical vegetarian diet.
There are significant amounts of protein (not sure if it's complete or not) in the small husks surrounding rice. I imagine that the barley, wheat, grains, and feed that horses and cows eat are a similar protein source. Elephants eat coarse vegetation that humans don't. Like I said, I'm not sure if these proteins are complete or not. We see in the Soy bean a precedent for a plant containing a complete protein, so it's not that foreign of an idea to accept. What is "Whey" by the way? And do vegetarians eat it? or any of these other husky, coarse protein sources?

This isn't really a big deal to me. What I really wanna know is, what do gorillas eat? Cuz them things are strong as f*ck. hehehe

Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

GeneChing
06-18-2019, 02:29 PM
Xu Xiaodong only beat me because I’m vegetarian, says wing chun ‘master’ who compares himself to Bruce Lee
Lu Gang blames his diet for getting pulverised in less than a minute by Chinese MMA fighter
Pressure point master says he was ‘too skinny’ to fight as he only eats 20 meals per month
Nicolas Atkin
Published: 10:31am, 6 Jun, 2019

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/1200x800/public/d8/images/methode/2019/06/06/85412e22-87a3-11e9-a9bc-e8ed9093c066_image_hires_103055.jpg?itok=DhLTnX_r&v=1559788260
Lu Gang is blaming his malnutrition for his embarrassing defeat by Xu Xiaodong. Photos: YouTube

There seems to be something about food when it comes to martial arts frauds making excuses for the crushing defeats they are dealt by Chinese MMA fighter Xu Xiaodong.
Wing chun practitioner Ding Hao only got pulverised by Xu last year because he was hungry and wasn’t given enough rice before the fight, according to his shifu (or coach).
Now wing chun dim mak (pressure point) “master” Lu Gang is blaming his vegetarianism for getting obliterated by “Mad Dog” in less than a minute last month.
Never mind that Lu was knocked down three times and had his nose broken before the referee mercilessly intervened – it was just his constant fasting that threw off his game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3srSYkDpao

In a new posting on Chinese social media, Lu said he only eats around 20 meals per month – and because he is vegetarian he is chronically malnourished.
“I’m too skinny, I didn’t have enough mass to fight Xu,” Lu is quoted as saying in a translation by Jerry Liu of YouTube channel Fight Commentary Breakdowns.
Xu weighed around 100lbs (45 kilograms) more than Lu for the fight. But before the bout, Lu had said his wing chun techniques would be too much for Xu to handle, and that he could punch harder and faster than the 41-year-old.
“My speed is quicker,” Lu had said. He also claimed he was much more skilled and flexible than his opponent – and had even likened his skills to Bruce Lee.
“My dim mak has become completely part of me,” he said. “It’s like lightning speed, it’ll just come out. Just like Bruce Lee’s jeet kune do. A lot of times my dim mak, I don’t even know what I’m going to throw.”

https://cdn.i-scmp.com/sites/default/files/d8/images/methode/2019/06/06/0cf7736e-87a2-11e9-a9bc-e8ed9093c066_1320x770_103055.JPG
Xu Xiaodong’s hand is raised after beating Lu Gang – and breaking his nose.

YouTube commenters didn’t have much sympathy for Lu after his latest excuse, though, and many poked fun at him.
“I think this wing chun ‘master’ is a good example that ‘you are what you eat’ because at this point it’s obvious this guy is a vegetable,” one user wrote.
“Vegetarians, hell even vegans can put weight on,” said another. “I think the reason he lost is because HE CAN’T FIGHT.”
“The Wing Chun master just needed to eat some chicken fried rice and he would have been okay,” joked another user.


THREADS
Wing Chun 'Master' Ding Hao (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71328-Wing-Chun-Master-Ding-Hao)
ironfist view on protein, vegetarianism (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?6278-ironfist-view-on-protein-vegetarianism)
Xu Xiaodong Challenges to Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70253-Xu-Xiaodong-Challenges-to-Kung-Fu)

GeneChing
06-21-2019, 08:18 AM
That second caption is really funny. I mean...we're all gonna die. :rolleyes:


Do Vegetarians Live Longer Than Meat Eaters? Why Biologists Aren't Sure Yet (https://www.inverse.com/article/56887-vegetarian-vs-meat-eater-longevity)
Should you avoid meat for a long and healthy life?

https://fsmedia.imgix.net/78/3b/f1/84/42fc/49dd/870e/5843d29e89fc/grilling-24911231920jpg.jpeg?rect=0%2C130%2C1920%2C960&auto=format%2Ccompress&w=650

By James Brown on June 21, 2019

Our ability to live a long life is influenced by a combination of our genes and our environment. In studies that involve identical twins, scientists have estimated that no more than 30% of this influence comes from our genes, meaning that the largest group of factors that control how long a person lives is their environment.
It’s rare to find a checking account that gives similar perks to many high-end credit cards. Now, thanks to Radius Bank, you can enjoy the best of both worlds by opening a Rewards Checking account.
Open Your Account Online In 3 Minutes Or Less
Of the many possible environmental factors, few have been as thoroughly studied or debated as our diet. Calorie restriction, for example, is one area that is being investigated. So far, studies seem to show that restricting calories can increase lifespan, at least in small creatures. But what works for mice doesn’t necessarily work for humans.

https://fsmedia.imgix.net/e9/f9/de/89/d7cc/4901/9d68/b06e0f8196fe/a-study-found-that-vegetarians-were-less-likely-to-die-than-meat-eaters.jpeg?auto=format%2Ccompress&w=650
A study found that vegetarians were less likely to die than meat eaters.

What we eat — as opposed to how much we eat — is also a hot topic to study, and meat consumption is often put under the microscope. A study that tracked almost 100,000 Americans for five years found that non-meat eaters were less likely to die — of any cause — during the study period than meat eaters. This effect was especially noticeable in males.

Some meta-analyses, which combine and re-analyze data from several studies, have also shown that a diet low in meat is associated with greater longevity, and that the longer a person sticks to a meat-free diet, the greater the benefit. Not all studies agree, however. Some show very little or even no difference at all in longevity between meat eaters and non-meat eaters.

What is clear is evidence that meat-free diets can reduce the risk of developing health problems such as type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, and even cancer. There is some evidence to suggest that vegan diets possibly offer added protection above a standard vegetarian diet. These findings are far easier to interpret, as they report the actual event of being diagnosed with a health problem rather than death from any cause.

So can we confidently say that avoiding meat will increase your lifespan? The simple answer is: not yet.

The Problem With Longevity

The first thing that is clear is that, compared with most other creatures, humans live for a very long time. This makes it very difficult to run studies that measure the effect of anything on longevity. (You’d have difficulty finding a scientist willing to wait 90 years for a study to complete.) Instead, scientists either look back at existing health records or recruit volunteers for studies that use shorter time periods, measuring death rates and looking to see which group, on average, was mostly likely to die first. From this data, claims are made about the effect certain activities have on longevity, including avoiding meat.

There are problems with this approach. First, finding a link between two things — such as eating meat and an early death — doesn’t necessarily mean one thing caused the other. In other words: correlation does not equal causation. It may appear that vegetarianism and longevity are related, but a different variable may explain the link. It could be that vegetarians exercise more, smoke less, and drink less alcohol than their meat-eating counterparts, for example.

https://fsmedia.imgix.net/c9/0a/57/8c/d148/4f5d/959c/8649de52e877/maybe-vegetarians-exercise-more-than-meat-eaters.jpeg?auto=format%2Ccompress&w=650
Maybe vegetarians exercise more than meat eaters.

Nutrition studies also rely on volunteers accurately and truthfully recording their food intake. But this can’t be taken for granted. Studies have shown that people tend to underreport calorie intake and overreport healthy food consumption. Without actually controlling the diet of groups of people and measuring how long they live, it is difficult to have absolute confidence in findings.

So should I avoid meat for a long and healthy life? The key to healthy aging probably does lie in controlling our environment, including what we eat. From the available evidence, it is possible that eating a meat-free diet can contribute to this, and that avoiding meat in your diet could certainly increase your chances of avoiding disease as you age. But there’s certainly also evidence to suggest that this really might work in tandem with avoiding some clearer risks to longevity, including smoking

THREADS
Shaolin diet, vegetarianism and stuff (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?61187-Shaolin-diet-vegetarianism-and-stuff)
ironfist view on protein, vegetarianism (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?6278-ironfist-view-on-protein-vegetarianism)

GeneChing
06-28-2019, 07:44 AM
Rick Wiles: Plant-Based Meat Alternatives Are a Satanic Plot to ‘Create a Race of Soulless Creatures’ (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/rick-wiles-plant-based-meat-alternatives-are-a-satanic-plot-to-create-a-race-of-soulless-creatures/)
By Kyle Mantyla | June 13, 2019 10:49 am

End Times broadcaster Rick Wiles warned on his “TruNews” program last night that the rise of companies like Impossible Foods, which is developing plant-based alternatives to meat and dairy products, is part of a satanic plot to alter human DNA so that people can no longer worship God.

“When you go to your favorite fast food restaurant, you are going to be eating a fake hamburger,” Wiles said. “You’re going to go to the grocery store and buy a pound of fake hamburger or a fake steak, and you won’t know that it was grown in some big corporation’s laboratory. This is the nightmare world that they are taking us into. They’re changing God’s creation. Why? Because they want to be God.”

“God is an environmentalist,” Wiles continued. “He takes this very seriously. He created this planet, he created the universe and he’s watching these Luciferians destroy this planet, destroy the animal kingdom, destroy the plant kingdom, change human DNA. Why? They want to change human DNA so that you can’t be born again. That’s where they’re going with this, to change the DNA of humans so it will be impossible for a human to be born again. They want to create a race of soulless creatures on this planet.”

Rick Wiles: Plant-Based Meat Alternatives Are a Satanic Plot to ‘Create a Race of Soulless Creatures’ (https://vimeo.com/342031838)


The second link is to the vimeo vid; vimeo vids aren't embedding properly lately here.

Is it wrong that I want to distinguish myself as a pescatarian luciferian now? :o

THREADS
Shaolin diet, vegetarianism and stuff (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?61187-Shaolin-diet-vegetarianism-and-stuff)
ironfist view on protein, vegetarianism (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?6278-ironfist-view-on-protein-vegetarianism)

SteveLau
07-06-2019, 11:42 PM
shaolin_knight,

Good post. First, I would to let you gentlemen know that I am not a vegetarian nor a meat-only-eater. My major athlete activity is MA, the others that I do regularly like body building and running are all for supplement it. With today's technology, it is possible but still difficult for a fellow who carry out strong physical activities frequently to be a vegetarian. I have tried changed more than once in my training plan during the last 4 years. Only in the last 3 months I have almost reached my goal to achieve a medium build body (according to the BMI). I am now 58 kg., close to my goal of body weight 60kg. Like most people, my life is not ideal. That is true in my diet. I do not have enough intake of protein, vegetable and fruit. So I supplement them with vitamin pills, ginseng, royal bee jelly, milk powder, black sesame seed powder, oatmeal flake and two months ago, dried black currant. It works.





Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

David Jamieson
07-10-2019, 06:55 AM
As someone who has come to understand how and what to eat... Surprisingly, fruit is not a good choice with only a few exceptions.
the sugar is too high in most fruit and it renders it nutritionally a temporary thing to be burned immediately, otherwise, believe it or not, it's fattening to eat fruit a lot.

Vegetarianism is fine, lacto-ovarian vegetarianism is pretty good, but like anything, balance.

What I have truly discovered and learned is this:

There are fat burners.

There are sugar burners.

People who eat good fats and little to no sucrose or fructose sugar along with low carbohydrates will become fat burners, lose weight and get to what they naturally should be in a relatively short time with proper discipline. Fat burners slow burn their energy and don't crash or any of the other stuff that happens to sugar eaters.

Sugar burners have multiple health issues and lifestyle issues the longer they go in life without correcting that habit. Many people who switch from sugar to fat burning also note that many aches and pains that they had normally clear up, skin clears up, mind gets sharper, so many benefits. In youth, it is less noticeable, but it is fair to say that youth do not have particularly observant minds but it comes.

The next piece that is very helpful is intermittent fasting. Do not eat anything at all after a certain point of time in the day and try to extend your fast to 12 hrs at the start and get it stretched to 16 hrs over time.

Avoid starchy foods, avoid below ground vegetables.
Avoid processed food entirely.
Avoid sugary things like treats and snacks and soda pop etc. None of that has any benefit at all whatsoever.
Avoid white flour, noodles, rice, and all other high carb things.

Eat all the meat, cheese, milk, cream, leafy greens, greens and low carb stuff you like.
Get disciplined first. Get comfortable with your disciplined way, get your fasting time correct and then start looking at treats as the luxuries they really are.

Substitute good fats for bad ones. Example, coconut or avacado oil is superior in everyway to any vegetable oil.
Learn, read, look at tips and such from such diets as Keto diet, or Atkins, or simply go your path and stay in the guidelines of no sugar, low carb, measured protein, complex carbs and clear fats consumption.

I can guarantee that if you follow through and don't succumb to petty weakness brought on by desire you will be in better condition in 6 months from now and you will not regret it.

SteveLau
07-14-2019, 12:24 AM
Dear David Jamieson,

Sure Dave. Fruit has fructose, a form of sugar which is easy to be converted to blood sugar. And I put a cap to the total amount of sugar intake per day. That includes sugar I put into beverages, candy, desert, fruit and even carbohydrates rich food. My body type has remains constant for the last 20+ years - slim and muscular, medium build according to the BMI.


Good luck to your training, guys.



KC
Hong Kong