Force vector handling

[Hendrik]

This is John' s very interesting clip on force vector reflection handling. Perhaps John could educate us on how he did it. Thanks John !



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QprtQ1-xhSs

[Yoshiyahu]

i enjoyed the video clip thanks guys!

[Phil Redmond]

Dim gaai gwong dung wah mah? Hendrik, neih ji do ni do hou do yahn m'shik teng gwong dung wah ah.

[imperialtaichi]

Hey Hendrik,

Redirecting forces with minimal movements. If I move too much, the opponent can sense it and adapt, making my techniques useless.

(In theory) If I can change fast and without his detection, I should be able to do things to the opponent, and by the time he senses it is too late for him to defent himself.

I think a lot of the Internal stuff should be focusing on being invisible and undetectable by the opponent, and not just on how to generate maximum power. Part of the reason why Tai Chi has to be light is not so much to do with yielding (I don't believe in physically yielding, I'll just get smacked :p) but it got to do with being undetectable.

Of course, transferring the methods to real fighting is a completely different ball game. And that's why many internal artists who could do all these wonderful things during practice under controlled environment fails to be good fighters.

As I always say, the Tai Chi (IYTC) teaches me the science behind what to do, and the Kulo (KL22) teaches me how to apply it.

Hope it helps.

Cheers,
John

[imperialtaichi]

Dim gaai gwong dung wah mah? Hendrik, neih ji do ni do hou do yahn m'shik teng gwong dung wah ah.

Haha Phil, gor pin hou gou ga la ;)

[Phil Redmond]

Haha Phil, gor pin hou gou ga la ;)
M'goi, m'goi. Sihk teng daahn hai sikh gong siu siu ah . .

[imperialtaichi]

I think a lot of the Internal stuff should be focusing on being invisible and undetectable by the opponent, and not just on how to generate maximum power. Part of the reason why Tai Chi has to be light is not so much to do with yielding (I don't believe in physically yielding, I'll just get smacked :p) but it got to do with being undetectable.

Oh, BTW, that's why a lot of these Internal stuff looked weird and unbelievable; because the whole idea is to deceive the receiver and sometimes the audience. But believe me, it is scientifically sound and no Chinese magic involved. :cool:

[Phil Redmond]

Oh, BTW, that's why a lot of these Internal stuff looked weird and unbelievable; because the whole idea is to deceive the receiver and sometimes the audience. But believe me, it is scientifically sound and no Chinese magic involved. :cool:
I know. I was just having fun....lol

[Phil Redmond]

:47 haih m'haih ging lek ma???

[Hendrik]

Lots of fun here .
Thanks guys!


John,

May be it is time to introduce the concept of Jin loo or force vector path . Path opening ....

General public always mistaken these stuffs with qigong Because the Jin handling also use visualization.

[Yoshiyahu]

very good post!!!


Hey Hendrik,

Redirecting forces with minimal movements. If I move too much, the opponent can sense it and adapt, making my techniques useless.

(In theory) If I can change fast and without his detection, I should be able to do things to the opponent, and by the time he senses it is too late for him to defent himself.

I think a lot of the Internal stuff should be focusing on being invisible and undetectable by the opponent, and not just on how to generate maximum power. Part of the reason why Tai Chi has to be light is not so much to do with yielding (I don't believe in physically yielding, I'll just get smacked :p) but it got to do with being undetectable.

Of course, transferring the methods to real fighting is a completely different ball game. And that's why many internal artists who could do all these wonderful things during practice under controlled environment fails to be good fighters.

As I always say, the Tai Chi (IYTC) teaches me the science behind what to do, and the Kulo (KL22) teaches me how to apply it.

Hope it helps.

Cheers,
John

[imperialtaichi]

:47 haih m'haih ging lek ma???

Haha Phil, I'm starting to get lost in translations.....

[imperialtaichi]

To be honest, the principle is not that much different this bird toy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POsnqP_Ir70

The mind controls where the paths (or vectors) go; but the most difficult part is the body must be under total control of the mind, then the body supports whatever structure the mind conceives.

The techniques can also be executed very fast because it does not require the body move a lot. But the mind must change rapidly. Also, it takes longer for the opponent to work out what's going on, which gives you the advantage of speed (by making the opponent slower).

That's one of the reason why Tai Chi is practiced slowly; you want to train to change a lot of force vectors with the mind while the body moves very little. Practicing Tai Chi is actually a lot of hard work!

[Phil Redmond]

Haha Phil, I'm starting to get lost in translations.....
That's the Yale Romanization I learned on college. Anyway, at :47 in the clip it looks like you were using Ging lik/faat ging.

[Hendrik]

To be honest, the principle is not that much different this bird toy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POsnqP_Ir70

The mind controls where the paths (or vectors) go; but the most difficult part is the body must be under total control of the mind, then the body supports whatever structure the mind conceives.

The techniques can also be executed very fast because it does not require the body move a lot. But the mind must change rapidly. Also, it takes longer for the opponent to work out what's going on, which gives you the advantage of speed (by making the opponent slower).

That's one of the reason why Tai Chi is practiced slowly; you want to train to change a lot of force vectors with the mind while the body moves very little. Practicing Tai Chi is actually a lot of hard work!


With proper instruction on the 5 as the kuen kuit says , the yik kam slt long set practice is also doing it that way.

As slt means the training of small details.

[Yoshiyahu]

With proper instruction on the 5 as the kuen kuit says , the yik kam slt long set practice is also doing it that way.

As slt means the training of small details.

One day post a video of your SLT?

[Robinhood]

To be honest, the principle is not that much different this bird toy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POsnqP_Ir70

The mind controls where the paths (or vectors) go; but the most difficult part is the body must be under total control of the mind, then the body supports whatever structure the mind conceives.

The techniques can also be executed very fast because it does not require the body move a lot. But the mind must change rapidly. Also, it takes longer for the opponent to work out what's going on, which gives you the advantage of speed (by making the opponent slower).

That's one of the reason why Tai Chi is practiced slowly; you want to train to change a lot of force vectors with the mind while the body moves very little. Practicing Tai Chi is actually a lot of hard work!

Yes, good account of steps used and that is one of the reasons why I would call what you described as internal application, it's not dependent on muscle impulses to apply.

[Yoshiyahu]

now this is a peaceful thread wow!

[imperialtaichi]

Oh, btw, when practicing SLT, the shoulder on the non-working side supports the generation of power on the techniques being executed on the working side. So while one side trains yin, the other side trains yang and vice versa.

So the non-working side is actually doing a lot of work.

小念頭主練內功

[Robinhood]

Oh, btw, when practicing SLT, the shoulder on the non-working side supports the generation of power on the techniques being executed on the working side. So while one side trains yin, the other side trains yang and vice versa.

So the non-working side is actually doing a lot of work.

小念頭主練內功

Yes, we call that being whole, or complete and not being only a half of a man.

[Phil Redmond]

Oh, btw, when practicing SLT, the shoulder on the non-working side supports the generation of power on the techniques being executed on the working side. So while one side trains yin, the other side trains yang and vice versa.

So the non-working side is actually doing a lot of work.

小念頭主練內功
Yes, in our SLT we keep one fist about two inches from the body so as to focus on that hand as well. Since the right hemisphere of the brain controls the left side of the body. If your fist is just resting against your body you're using using only one arm. Both arms should be used independently like a pianist playing two distinct rhythms with each hand.

[imperialtaichi]

Yes, in our SLT we keep one fist about two inches from the body so as to focus on that hand as well. Since the right hemisphere of the brain controls the left side of the body. If your fist is just resting against your body you're using using only one arm. Both arms should be used independently like a pianist playing two distinct rhythms with each hand.

Yes. Playing the piano is a good example because while the hands are doing different things, they are also working with each other. It is also like doing up a button.

WC really is a big family 詠春是一個大家庭 :)

[imperialtaichi]

Another example I like to use (haha, John talking like an old Chinese man again) is the "Chopstick Principles". For a pair of chopsticks to work, the top chopstick moves while the bottom one remains stable. You can't move both. Most people look at how much the top one moves, whithout realizing the importance of the non-moving one.

The second Chopstick Principle is the triangulation; the chopsticks picks things up best when working as a triangle. The opponent's power source is what we are trying to control using our triangle.

Chopstick Principle #3: Our mind turns the chopsticks into part of our body. We can naturally pick up the smallest and slipperiest things as if the chopsticks are our fingers. We can feel the texture of what we are picking up as if it is connected to our nervous system. When in contact with an opponent, I do not think of him as something that I bash and push away, I look at it as extentions I work with.

Another interesting question: on your car, which side is the accelerator and which one is the brake? Haha, you'd need to think about it, even if it only took a second. I have to actually visualize it. But yet when we drive, it is all natural and we don't need to think.

Fighting should also be natural.

[Yoshiyahu]

Can you tell me in one word how to make all skills in your wing chun to become natural?



Another example I like to use (haha, John talking like an old Chinese man again) is the "Chopstick Principles". For a pair of chopsticks to work, the top chopstick moves while the bottom one remains stable. You can't move both. Most people look at how much the top one moves, whithout realizing the importance of the non-moving one.

The second Chopstick Principle is the triangulation; the chopsticks picks things up best when working as a triangle. The opponent's power source is what we are trying to control using our triangle.

Chopstick Principle #3: Our mind turns the chopsticks into part of our body. We can naturally pick up the smallest and slipperiest things as if the chopsticks are our fingers. We can feel the texture of what we are picking up as if it is connected to our nervous system. When in contact with an opponent, I do not think of him as something that I bash and push away, I look at it as extentions I work with.

Another interesting question: on your car, which side is the accelerator and which one is the brake? Haha, you'd need to think about it, even if it only took a second. I have to actually visualize it. But yet when we drive, it is all natural and we don't need to think.

Fighting should also be natural.

[imperialtaichi]

Can you tell me in one word how to make all skills in your wing chun to become natural?

Affordance

[imperialtaichi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-_qR-sP9js

This is a video of my teacher's teacher Wang Yong Quan shortley before he passed on.

Yes, it seems weird; and of course this is practice and not real fight. I've been on the receiving end so it is real. The challenge is adapting it in real fights.

My explanation of such a phenomenon is that the receiver had all the balancing senses confused, hence a light tap is enough to tip the person over. And because of the confusion in balance typically the receiver continues to run backward until the body re-gains the control. It works more on someone who wants to fight back; if the person is not paying attention it is harder to make it work (although there are ways).

I think the phenomenon is similar to someone walking into to tunnels in amusement parks, where the floor is steady but the wall is spinning, so everyone loses the balance the more you focus on walking straight.

[YouKnowWho]

I've been on the receiving end so it is real.

You are a lucky guy. I have tried to meet people who can do that to me. So far, I haven't met anyone yet. :(

Back in 1980 San Francisco Kung Fu exhibition, I volunteered to be the receiving end of the master Liu Mu-Sheng's demo. I was dragged off the stage by the announcer Brendan Lai.

[Phil Redmond]

Yes. Playing the piano is a good example because while the hands are doing different things, they are also working with each other. It is also like doing up a button.

WC really is a big family 詠春是一個大家庭 :)
I like to think of us as one family. I feel sad for those that are divisive.