Brain injuries

[k gledhill]

Beware...CNN clip (http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/27/health/big-hits-broken-dreams-brain-bank/index.html?hpt=hp_c2) about the effects of repeated trauma to the brain, FYI.

[Vajramusti]

Beware...CNN clip (http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/27/health/big-hits-broken-dreams-brain-bank/index.html?hpt=hp_c2) about the effects of repeated trauma to the brain, FYI.
______________________________________
I know too many cases of the effects of cumulative hits to the head of boxers and football players
to begin commenting on each. Dr Sanjay Gupta who is mentioned is a good neurologist and is often on TV.

joy chaudhuri

[wingchunIan]

not exactly new news, but thanks for the clip Kev. Hell of a price to pay for playing a sport no matter how much you get paid.

[Peaceful Orchid]

Here's betting your are going to see lots of this in MMA after a few more years.

[k gledhill]

Here's betting your are going to see lots of this in MMA after a few more years.

I was alluding to this. Lets not forget what we train to do is cause brain injury.

[Wayfaring]

Here's betting your are going to see lots of this in MMA after a few more years.

I'll take that bet. Boxing's standing 8 count is far more conducive to brain injury.

[k gledhill]

Here's betting your are going to see lots of this in MMA after a few more years.

Already here....bruising of the brain isnt visible, the simple tests Dr. Gupta will explain in his upcoming show are simple and revealing.

Testing link (http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/02/02/concussion.test/index.html)

Test numbers image (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/02/02/king.devick.jpg)

Athletes who did not suffer overt brain trauma saw no worsening in their K-D scores, but those who had suffered a concussion on average took six seconds longer to complete the test. Those who had experienced a concussion along with loss of consciousness had even poorer scores.

"Any delay should raise a question," said Balcer, a professor of neurology and ophthalmology at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. "What is exciting about these results is that athletes who had head trauma had markedly increased scores. It took them longer to take the test, so there was really not a question among this cohort as to who had head trauma or not."

[anerlich]

Here's betting your are going to see lots of this in MMA after a few more years.

Well, yeah, no more no less than any other sport where head trauma is potentially involved.

There's debate as to whether smaller or larger gloves have a greater potential cumulative effect.

Chokes are relatively safe compared to KO's. No fatalities at the Kodokan in over a century.

And, competition aside, I don't see that MMA style TRAINING is necessarily any more dangerous than any TMA where contact sparring is part of the regimen.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I would expect that MMA fighting would indeed be more harmful to the brain since sparring is not usually done with such deadly intent. When someone gets ko'ed the other guy jumps down on him and beats his head until the ref drags him off. That's probably not real good for the brain. Kicks to the head, things like that, are probably not real good for the brain either. Brain damage does not necessarily have to be cumulative. A single hard impact to the head can jar the brain enough to cause severe swelling. Again, I suspect that this is something else that is not really good for the brain.

[anerlich]

I would expect that MMA fighting would indeed be more harmful to the brain since sparring is not usually done with such deadly intent.

More harmful than what? Boxing? No deadly intent? I'm reminded of Mike Tyson saying how he wanted to drive his opponents' nose bones up into their brains.

It's only TOMA that talk about "killing strikes". Though it's mostly talk and little delivery.

[k gledhill]

I would expect that MMA fighting would indeed be more harmful to the brain since sparring is not usually done with such deadly intent. When someone gets ko'ed the other guy jumps down on him and beats his head until the ref drags him off. That's probably not real good for the brain. Kicks to the head, things like that, are probably not real good for the brain either. Brain damage does not necessarily have to be cumulative. A single hard impact to the head can jar the brain enough to cause severe swelling. Again, I suspect that this is something else that is not really good for the brain.

You have to hand it to mma ref's, they are the devil if they jump in to quick, devil if they dont...they save many guys, even if they dont agree about early stoppage.

A fighters heart will go way beyond his brains ability to recover.

One of the most incredible fights I ever saw....
1991: Michael Watson spent 38 days in a coma after being stopped by Chris Eubank. He is confined to a wheelchair.

Approximately 500 boxers have died in the ring or as a result of boxing since the Marquis of Queensberry Rules were introduced in 1884. Some of the worst incidents since the Second World War include:

1947: Jimmy Doyle died of brain injuries 17 hours after being knocked out by Sugar Ray Robinson in a world welterweight title fight. Fifteen months earlier, Doyle had suffered severe concussion in a contest with Artie Levine.

1953: The Ring Annual reported that 22 boxers had died as a result of injuries sustained during the year. This remains the highest figure since records were kept.

1962: Benny Paret died of brain injuries after losing to Emile Griffith in a world welterweight title fight.

1963: Davey Moore died after collapsing in his dressing-room after he was beaten by Ultiminio Ramos for the world featherweight title.

1964: Lyn James, from Pontypridd, died in hospital from a brain injury - the decade's first fatality in British boxing.

1969: Four days after a points defeat by Joe Bugner, Ulrich Regis died after surgery to remove a clot from his brain.

1972: Mick Pinkney choked on his own blood after a fifth-round knock- out by Jim Moore in Leeds. The inquest report said there was no sign of where the blood had come from.

1978: Angelo Jacopucci collapsed and died after fighting Alan Minter for the European middleweight title. European title fights were shortened to 12 rounds as a result.

1979: Willie Claasen died after he lost to Wilfred Scypion in New York. A few weeks earlier he had been knocked out in two rounds by British champion Tony Sibson.

1980: Lupe Pintor of Mexico beat the Welshman Johnny Owen for the WBC bantamweight title. Owen died six weeks later, having never regained consciousness.

1982: Young Ali (Asymin Mustapha) collapsed on the way out of the ring after being knocked out by Barry McGuigan in London. He lay in a coma for several months and died in December.

1982: Duk-koo Kim was carried from the ring in a coma after he was beaten by Ray Mancini for the WBA lightweight title. He died four days after the contest. Subsequently, world championship bouts were cut from 15 to 12 rounds.

1983: Kiko Bejines died of brain injuries after a defeat by Albert Davila for the WBC bantamweight title.

1985: Shawn Thomas died of head injuries suffered in a lightweight fight against Chris Calvin.

1985: Gerardo Derbez died of brain damage after being in a coma since being knocked out by Jorge Vaca.

1985: Jacob Morake died from head injuries received when he was knocked out by Brian Mitchell.

1986: The Scottish-born Steve Watt died of brain injuries after a defeat by Rocky Kelly in Fulham.

1987: Jean-Claude Vinci died half-an-hour after he was beaten on points by Lionel Jean.

1988: Daniel Thetele collapsed and died after losing to Aaron Williams.

1988: Brian Baronet, was in a coma for three days before dying after being knocked out by Kenny Vice.

1989: David Thio died 10 days after being knocked out by Terrence Ali.

1989: Rod Douglas, stopped by Herol Graham in a British middleweight title fight, underwent brain surgery to remove a clot.

1990: Patrick Stone died of a brain injury the day after beating Gary Wills.

1991: Michael Watson spent 38 days in a coma after being stopped by Chris Eubank. He is confined to a wheelchair.

1991: Clive Skwebe died nine days after being knocked out by Ndoda Mayenda.

1991: Patrick Diniso died after being knocked unconscious during a featherweight bout.

1991: Minoru Katsumata died after a 10th-round stoppage by Takashi Hurata.

1993: Yasuji Hamakawa died after being knocked down twice in one round.

1994: Wangila Napunyi collapsed after being stopped by David Gonzalez. He died after an operation to remove a blood clot from his brain.

1994: British bantamweight Bradley Stone died from a massive blood clot on the brain after losing to Richie Wenton.

1994: Michael Bentt was rushed to hospital and had to retire after his WBO heavyweight title defeat against Herbie Hide in London.

[Vajramusti]

I can provide lots of anecdotes. Why not wait and see what Dr. Sanjay Gupta actually says?

[Grumblegeezer]

Keven, thanks for starting this thread. This is a subject every martial artist, and especially every instructor, needs to be aware of. I think of this every time I hear some young MMA warrior-wannabe dump on traditional MA for not having enough really hard contact sparring, and making comments like "if you don't get hit hard and often, you won't be able to take a punch in a fight and won't be able to defend yourself." We've all heard that stuff. Well here's a confession. When I was starting out I got hit hard a few times, saw a flash and went down to my knees. Didn't seem like a big deal then. Now, I'm in my mid-fifties and I thank god that I didn't continue taking risks like that. Call me a wimp, but there's no way I'm gambling with the brain cells I've got left!

[Vajramusti]

Some posts in internet forums appear to show that one does not have to be in boxing, football or mma to appear brain damaged!!!

[anerlich]

Some posts in internet forums appear to show that one does not have to be in boxing, football or mma to appear brain damaged!!!

Definitely.


I think of this every time I hear some young MMA warrior-wannabe dump on traditional MA for not having enough really hard contact sparring, and making comments like "if you don't get hit hard and often, you won't be able to take a punch in a fight and won't be able to defend yourself."

There are just as many of these people in TMA. Most of the MMA guys I know only have issues with TMA people who spar and score victories with their mouths. Stereotyping abounds, make sure you aren't also guilty.

A better maximum IMO is an old TMA one "a good boxer is stung frequently and hurt occasionally."

I've only had one KO/concussion in about 30 years of MA training, and that was in a TMA class. I've probably had about $40000 of dental work indirectly related to being hit (yes, with a mouthpiece).

In Jiu Jitsu, I've had cracked ribs, arthroscopic surgery on a knee, and I'm currently rehabbing a separated shoulder.

IMO, there is always risk in MA training. No risk, no reward.

Most athletes of any description have to deal with injuries. One of my training bud's husband is 4X Australian Kyokushin champion. The worst injury he's had was breaking a foot when he did something weird to it while doing ankle circles in warm up. 12 weeks on crutches and four months off training.

Still fairly safe IMO compared to auto or motorcycle racing, rugby, and most extreme sports.

They say "it's not ballet", but ballet dancers work really hard and can get injured quite badly.

[k gledhill]

How many punches can a guy take ?
MSNBC article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35221044/ns/health-behavior/t/study-how-many-punches-can-guy-take/#.TyGw-1z2aa9)

[Lee Chiang Po]

More harmful than what? Boxing? No deadly intent? I'm reminded of Mike Tyson saying how he wanted to drive his opponents' nose bones up into their brains.

It's only TOMA that talk about "killing strikes". Though it's mostly talk and little delivery.

No, more harmful than sparring, as in your last post before mine. Boxing, if a man goes down, the other guy goes to a neutral corner. In MMA when a man goes down the other guy jumps down on him and beats on his head while he is out cold. These are usually full power shots with absolutely no effort to defend or move. Also, boxers don't kick each other in the head.
I can remember a while back when you couldn't turn on the tube without seeing MMA fighting or an add for such. It is pretty much done now and it no where near as popular with the public as it used to be. It will end up like boxing with a smaller following and then only when it is a couple of very well known fighters.

[PalmStriker]

I gave up hard sparring years ago, 1983. Realized when sparring with my sparring partner (him, kook su wan) after using a back mule kick that missed (at dusk, outside) that had I connected, things might not have looked good. He had missed work, and let go earlier on from being hamstrung by me, he was the superior fighter at the time, a VietNam Vet, Marine. Sports may/are hazardous to your health. What you are doing for "contact" may deep six the whole purpose of training which is to be prepared. Not good. :(

[anerlich]

I can remember a while back when you couldn't turn on the tube without seeing MMA fighting or an add for such. It is pretty much done now and it no where near as popular with the public as it used to be. It will end up like boxing with a smaller following and then only when it is a couple of very well known fighters.

Boxing has a small following? OK. :rolleyes:

If it does end up like you say ... I guess it will have followed a similar fate to Wing Chun.

And frankly, you are incorrect ... I was in Las Vegas last October/November while the UFC was on ... it was huge. I think your predictions indicate you own biases rather than recognition of facts. It may settle down at some stage but at the moment there is no sign of slowing down.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Boxing has a small following? OK. :rolleyes:

If it does end up like you say ... I guess it will have followed a similar fate to Wing Chun.

And frankly, you are incorrect ... I was in Las Vegas last October/November while the UFC was on ... it was huge. I think your predictions indicate you own biases rather than recognition of facts. It may settle down at some stage but at the moment there is no sign of slowing down.

Growing up, boxing was on the tube every friday, and then there were the top bouts with contenders for the titles and such. Everyone loved boxing. That is not the case today. People still pay to see boxing in Vegas, but it is not even close to what it was at one time. MMA is starting to calm down too. I flipped my TV all night and have not seen any MMA adds or whatever. I used to not be able to do that. Wing Chun has never had a following. In fact, Until I found this forum I didn't know anyone else knew what it was. That is not a problem for me. I don't really care that it is so obscure. I sort of like it that way.
No, once they put a stop to all the steriod use and such, MMA is not going to go any where it hasn't already been. It is actually boring, watching 3rd rate fighters. Professional wrestling, which we all know to be fake, is far more popular than MMA. Certainly far more intertaining.