Sunni - Shia differences

[Shǎguā]

I found a Sunni prayer in one of the neighbouring buildings the other day. Was invited to visit. Did some independent research beforehand.

I now understand Sunni - Shia differences a little bit better.

For instance, Sunni is the main (old) branch of Islam; Shia is the newer branch.

There are many Sunni variations, and all Sunnis recognize all other Sunni branches as being valid.

It is possible to not know a single thing about "Islam", yet still be considered Sunni.

Shias see only their branch as valid and as far as I can tell, it is not possible to be a true Shia unless you are born Shia.

After Mohammed's death and before the Shia split, Sunnis used to democratically elect a leader, known as a Caliph.

After the split, Shias created a dynastic leadership system and waged war on the democratically elected Caliphs, forcing them to give up their authority - essentially turning them into puppets of the Dynasty. In response, the Sunnis simply refrained from electing a Caliph and diversified their leadership into smaller, local, collaborative governments.

Sunnis have a long history of peaceful coexistence, dialogue and exchange with other cultures and religions.

Shias do not.

Very nutshell, but very interesting to me nonetheless.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Yet today, it seems that the Sunni is doing all the bombing and kidnapping and murdering. You can get a different picture with each that you speak with. Each is the victim and the other is the evil one. Religion is evil in and of itself. Large numbers of people have been killed and otherwise mistreated in the name of God and religion. It is like having to die over a cartoon or something. By far the majority of religious people are uneducated or ignorant. However, there are a lot of what could be considered very smart people that are also religious. Just look at the Heaven's Gate people that took poison so that they could go catch a ride on a comet. They packed a suitcase and put on their best clothes, then killed themselves. Now, what would a stinking corpse need with a suitcase and nice clothes if they are going to be swept away in the spirit world. And you could easily see that their leader was stark raving mad. These were some smart and very successful people too. Something is missing in a persons brain for them to even think there is another being controlling us.

[Syn7]

Sunnis have a long history of peaceful coexistence, dialogue and exchange with other cultures and religions.

Shias do not.

Very nutshell, but very interesting to me nonetheless.

I think you may hear the opposite if you talk to shia. Truth is, they started killing eachother before the split. Sunni looked down on shia from day one. They both believe they are the rightful heirs of mohammed. The shia have a long and proud heritage. The truth of the matter is that the strength of conviction among the shia causes alot of fear amongst the leaders of the sunni tribes and the sheer numbers of sunni keep the shia from pushing back as hard as they should. The shia have traditionally been more fearsome warriors and more are willing to sacrifice their own hides for the benefit of the collective. But this is all changing in the last hundred years or so. As far as I can tell most of these arguments are simply because they have been raised to hate eachother rather than any real valid point on either side.

An interesting fact, during the crusades the hasassins(shia) were working with the templars against Saladin and his sunni horde.

[Syn7]

Yet today, it seems that the Sunni is doing all the bombing and kidnapping and murdering. You can get a different picture with each that you speak with. Each is the victim and the other is the evil one. Religion is evil in and of itself. Large numbers of people have been killed and otherwise mistreated in the name of God and religion. It is like having to die over a cartoon or something. By far the majority of religious people are uneducated or ignorant. However, there are a lot of what could be considered very smart people that are also religious. Just look at the Heaven's Gate people that took poison so that they could go catch a ride on a comet. They packed a suitcase and put on their best clothes, then killed themselves. Now, what would a stinking corpse need with a suitcase and nice clothes if they are going to be swept away in the spirit world. And you could easily see that their leader was stark raving mad. These were some smart and very successful people too. Something is missing in a persons brain for them to even think there is another being controlling us.

It isn't religion that is evil. It's the men who use it to do evil. The rules have always been crystal clear. Most of the evil deeds were done in spite of the rules. Many senior churchmen have allowed themselves to be corrupted by ideas that lay outside of the church. They aren't supposed to be political, and when they are it's because somebody came up with a convincing reason to do it and then weak men allowed it to happen. It may be a vehicle for creating evil, but then so is government. Does that mean Government is evil too? Alot of good comes from religion and government as well.
It's like that saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people." All forms of power are open to abuse, but that does not make them inherently evil. At least I don't see it that way. Power only corrupts already corrupt minds.

[Lee Chiang Po]

It isn't religion that is evil. It's the men who use it to do evil. The rules have always been crystal clear. Most of the evil deeds were done in spite of the rules. Many senior churchmen have allowed themselves to be corrupted by ideas that lay outside of the church. They aren't supposed to be political, and when they are it's because somebody came up with a convincing reason to do it and then weak men allowed it to happen. It may be a vehicle for creating evil, but then so is government. Does that mean Government is evil too? Alot of good comes from religion and government as well.
It's like that saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people." All forms of power are open to abuse, but that does not make them inherently evil. At least I don't see it that way. Power only corrupts already corrupt minds.

Governments have always been evil to some extent, but religion is evil because it exists only to control the masses. It is something that simply does not exist except in the minds of the sheep, or followers, and the religious leaders use that to gain riches and control the movement of society. Governments are necessary to maintain order among the masses, and of course individuals will work their own agenda when they can, but religion is far more sinister.

[David Jamieson]

"Orthodoxy is unconsciousness" - G.Orwell 1984

[Syn7]

:eek:

CRIMETHINK

[Syn7]

Governments have always been evil to some extent, but religion is evil because it exists only to control the masses. It is something that simply does not exist except in the minds of the sheep, or followers, and the religious leaders use that to gain riches and control the movement of society. Governments are necessary to maintain order among the masses, and of course individuals will work their own agenda when they can, but religion is far more sinister.

I disagree. I believe that alot of people believe what they believe even though i dont actually believe what they believe. But it doesnt mean that because some dont believe in the whole system of belief that said system of belief is unbelievable.
believe that!



seriously though, I think that honest ideas were hijacked in some cases. not all founders are crazy or lying. of course many have. occams razor says there is both.

[Zenshiite]

I found a Sunni prayer in one of the neighbouring buildings the other day. Was invited to visit. Did some independent research beforehand.

I now understand Sunni - Shia differences a little bit better.

For instance, Sunni is the main (old) branch of Islam; Shia is the newer branch.

There are many Sunni variations, and all Sunnis recognize all other Sunni branches as being valid.

It is possible to not know a single thing about "Islam", yet still be considered Sunni.

Shias see only their branch as valid and as far as I can tell, it is not possible to be a true Shia unless you are born Shia.

After Mohammed's death and before the Shia split, Sunnis used to democratically elect a leader, known as a Caliph.

After the split, Shias created a dynastic leadership system and waged war on the democratically elected Caliphs, forcing them to give up their authority - essentially turning them into puppets of the Dynasty. In response, the Sunnis simply refrained from electing a Caliph and diversified their leadership into smaller, local, collaborative governments.

Sunnis have a long history of peaceful coexistence, dialogue and exchange with other cultures and religions.

Shias do not.

Very nutshell, but very interesting to me nonetheless.

Ugh. NO.

Sunni and Shia emerged at essentially the same time. The split goes as far back as immediately after the death of Muhammad. There were open supporters, called Shia, of 'Ali ibn Abi Talib(as) then. And the democratic election of the Caliph has always been a farcicle notion on the face of it. The Shura council was in no way a democratic election, never was a Caliph put of for a popular vote. The only Caliph to be "elected" in any way was Abu Bakr and that was via him storming into a council of the elders of Medina and essentially threatening them with violence if a Meccan didn't get the job. He and Umar literally beat the snot out of one of the Medinans. And thus Umar "nominated" Abu Bakr and Abu Bakr got the post. Meanwhile Ali and the rest of the family were preparing Muhammad's body for burial.

Abu Bakr appointed Umar his successor, he was not elected. Neither was Uthman. Ali became Caliph because after all the drama, all the debates about his right to succession after the Prophet form the beginning, he was the only logical choice for leadership. And still Muawiya came along and concocted a reason to rebel and wage war on Ali, who was ultimately assassinated while prostrating in prayer. After this Muawiya continued to threaten war to Ali's son Hasan, and eventually it seems he had Hasan assassinated. Then we come to Muawiya's appointed successor, his son Yazid, who proceeded to have Ali's other son Husayn and most of his male family members killed in Karbala Iraq because Husayn refused to pledge allegiance to Yazid. He then imprisoned Husayn's son Ali Zayn al-Abideen and the womenfolk of the family for years. And this was the rule for all of Islamic history until the death of the 11th Shia Imam, Hasan al-Askari. His son, the 12th Imam and expected messianic figure the Mahdi, was hidden from the Caliphal authorities.

If you think the Caliphate wasn't a dynastic endeavor I suggest you study actual historical records. If what you said in your post is anything to judge by, your Sunni friends were straight up bull****ting you or didn't know their own history(which isn't uncommon).

Try this book, if you really care to know: http://images.betterworldbooks.com/038/After-the-Prophet-Hazleton-Lesley-9780385523943.jpg http://www.amazon.com/After-Prophet-Story-Shia-Sunni-Split/dp/0385523947/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329500888&sr=8-1

[hskwarrior]

ANY RELIGION ON EARTH THAT BELIEVES THIS IS WHAT GOD WANTS IS REALLY THE SEED OF SATAN.......

http://ucministries.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/307209_273400822694286_100000731121391_894787_2042 841916_n.jpg

http://ucministries.wordpress.com/tag/saints/

[David Jamieson]

ANY RELIGION ON EARTH THAT BELIEVES THIS IS WHAT GOD WANTS IS REALLY THE SEED OF SATAN.......

http://ucministries.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/307209_273400822694286_100000731121391_894787_2042 841916_n.jpg

Don't be deceived. That photo is from a gas explosion tragedy and it is being sent across the net as an attack on one religion by another. It couldn't be further from the truth.

People will make any lie they can to project their own hate and to provoke yours. I question any and all things like this and dig deeper to find out the truth.

Don't let truth die because someone else is hiding it.

[David Jamieson]

Yes I can:

here is the exposure piece in regards to how the photo is and was used to incite hatred: http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/10/fake-nigerian-christians-burnt-alive-photo-resurfaces-on-facebook/

Here is the original news story translated into english:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.afrik.com%2****icle20308.html

Here is the Reuters piece on the same thing for those who can't get to the links:

(Reuters) – At least 230 people were killed when a fuel tanker overturned and exploded in eastern Democratic Republic of Congo, unleashing a fire ball that tore through homes and cinemas packed with people watching World Cup soccer.

Officials said on Saturday the explosion late on Friday also injured 196 people, adding that the death toll could rise.

They described scenes of devastation in the town of Sange, where houses were burned and bodies littered the streets. Some people died while trying to steal fuel leaking from the tanker, but most were killed at home or watching World Cup soccer in cinemas.

Many of the bodies were charred beyond recognition.

United Nations helicopters began airlifting injured people to hospital, while Congo’s army, which lost a number of men in the blast, has sent soldiers in to help with the rescue.

“Our latest numbers are 230 dead and 196 injured,” Madnodje Mounoubai, a spokesman for the U.N. mission, said. Congo’s government also gave the same number of dead.

Marcellin Cisambo, governor of South Kivu province, where the incident took place, said the blast occurred when the fuel truck overturned, leaked fuel and then later exploded.

It was not immediately clear what caused the initial accident or later blast, but local people said the truck, which was part of a convoy, stopped when the road seemed to crumble, toppling the vehicle and spilling fuel. Fire then erupted.

“It’s a terrible scene. There are lots of dead bodies on the streets. The population is in terrible shock — no one is crying or speaking,” Jean-Claude Kibala, South Kivu’s vice governor, said from Sange, which is between the towns of Bukavu and Uvira.

“We are trying to see how we can coordinate with (the U.N.) to manage the situation and how to take the wounded to hospital,” he added.

TANKER ACCIDENTS

Roads in the area are notoriously bad after years of war and neglect in the vast central African nation.

“Some people were killed trying to steal the fuel, but most of the deaths were of people who were indoors watching the (World Cup) match,” Cisambo said.

There have been numerous similar accidents across Africa, where crowds gather around fuel tankers involved in crashes, only for the tanker to explode.

Millions of football fans across Africa were watching Ghana, the continent’s last team in the World Cup, play Uruguay in the quarterfinals of the tournament on Friday evening.

For many, who have no electricity at home, makeshift cinema halls are the only option for watching the football.

“My children were watching the football match in the cinema and then they ran out to see the petrol,” said Kiza Ruvinira, who lost three children and his sister-in-law in the blast.

“I went out to see what happened and I found my three children’s bodies myself. I don’t know how to go on.”

Mubaya Mumasura also lost three family members: “I don’t know what to do with myself I am so sad. I want the government to assist all the victims and help us.”

Congo’s weak government has difficulty providing even the most basic services, so U.N. peacekeepers began airlifting some of the wounded to nearby hospitals and aid workers were called in to help with medical treatment.

“The national Red Cross is working on collecting the bodies and taking them to the morgue, but the priority is obviously to take the wounded to the hospital,” International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) coordinator Inah Kaloga told Reuters.”

Kaloga said aid workers were trying to identify bodies before they were buried, but many were completely charred.

“It’s a catastrophe,” said Captain Olivier Hamuli,” spokesman for Congo’s military operation in South Kivu, adding that 13 soldiers had been injured and another 10 were missing.

The Kenyan driver of the truck is being held by the police.

Alain Ilunga, deputy CEO of Congo’s storage and distribution company, which is already investigating the incident, said the truck was carrying 49,000 liters of petrol at the time.

[hskwarrior]

ok i saw some other stuff claiming it was a lie as well.....my bad.

still. killing in the name of religion is proof of Seeds of Satan.....LOL

[Drake]

**** those satanic fuel tankers to hell!

[Drake]

ANY RELIGION ON EARTH THAT BELIEVES THIS IS WHAT GOD WANTS IS REALLY THE SEED OF SATAN.......

http://ucministries.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/307209_273400822694286_100000731121391_894787_2042 841916_n.jpg

http://ucministries.wordpress.com/tag/saints/

Worst possible place to be standing in the event of a zombie outbreak...

[hskwarrior]

Worst possible place to be standing in the event of a zombie outbreak...

when i first saw the picture i was stunned. I wonder silently to myself "did i do that?" i mean i just had some beans the other night.....

whew, good to know thats not on my shoulders hahaha

[David Jamieson]

ok i saw some other stuff claiming it was a lie as well.....my bad.

still. killing in the name of religion is proof of Seeds of Satan.....LOL

All major and most minor religions are guilty of killing in the name of.

[Zenshiite]

ok i saw some other stuff claiming it was a lie as well.....my bad.

still. killing in the name of religion is proof of Seeds of Satan.....LOL

I would agree with you, and I believe there is plenty of evidence that Nigerian Christians have been just as guilty of religiously motivated violence in the recent election riots. http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Africa/2011/0420/Nigeria-election-riots-How-leaders-stoke-Muslim-Christian-violence


All major and most minor religions are guilty of killing in the name of.

Too true. You have religious persecution done on the grounds of almost anything. As a Muslim I wouldn't want to live in Burma/Myanmar(kind of funny, since I recently started training Bando/Lethwei)because of the official policy of the ruling junta... which only sanctions Buddhism. Anti-Muslim and anti-Christian riots have broken out led by what would appear to be monks(certainly there has been some question regarding the authenticity of those people being actual monks). Sri Lanka has ever present religious tensions between the Buddhist Singhalese and the Hindu Tamils.

[Syn7]

ok i saw some other stuff claiming it was a lie as well.....my bad.

still. killing in the name of religion is proof of Seeds of Satan.....LOL

Is that like some nervous LOL or do you really find any of this funny?

[Syn7]

It's unfortunate that propaganda works so well. So sad. People believe what they want to believe most of the time. That is not freedom.