Mantis and Superman Punch

[MeiHuaBR]

Okay guys, first thread in the forum. These days I was analysing some moves from Beng Bu and notice
d something. A ressemble between a move from the most famous mantis form and a MMA famous one.

This is me doing the Beng Bu:
http://youtu.be/XbxR1F3jEGw

The flying punch at 00:10 (sorry, I don't know the chinese name for this)

This is the Superman Punch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CIKOxf6_gM

Although there's some mechanical differences, looks like 2 kinds of moves that uses the momentum to generate power. One through a running and other using the leg.

By no means I want to discuss which is better. But I thought it was great two similars moves with similar mechanics.

Any thoughts?

[YouKnowWho]

Some people like to say, "My style does it differently". I prefer to say, "My styles does it similarly". If you always look at the "similarity" instead of the "difference", not only you have positive attitude, you will make more friends instead of enemies through your life time.

[Yao Sing]

CMA doesn't work in MMA, just ask the MMA experts. You have to call it something else, like Superman Punch, then it will work. :D

[YouKnowWho]

CMA doesn't work in MMA, just ask the MMA experts. You have to call it something else, like Superman Punch, then it will work. :D
When I use the term 扣(Kou) in discussion, non-TCMA guys always said, "It has never been seen in UFC, so it must be a low successful rate move." Since then I always called it "Chinese single leg", nobody ever wants to argue with me after that.

When I talk about Chinese Kung training, none-TCMA guys will say, "It's BS." When I talk about heavy bag training, they leave me alone.

[mooyingmantis]

Okay guys, first thread in the forum. These days I was analysing some moves from Beng Bu and notice
d something. A ressemble between a move from the most famous mantis form and a MMA famous one.

This is me doing the Beng Bu:
http://youtu.be/XbxR1F3jEGw

The flying punch at 00:10 (sorry, I don't know the chinese name for this)

This is the Superman Punch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CIKOxf6_gM

Although there's some mechanical differences, looks like 2 kinds of moves that uses the momentum to generate power. One through a running and other using the leg.

By no means I want to discuss which is better. But I thought it was great two similars moves with similar mechanics.

Any thoughts?

Are you talking about the right grab/left reverse punch with a simultaneous right knee lift?

I just had my students drill that move tonight in class. :) It is a nice move!

BTW, your form looked good!

[-N-]

Same concepts. With the Mantis approach including its typical elements of running footwork and additional control.

[sanjuro_ronin]

First time I ever saw it was in ITF TKD.

[Jimbo]

First time I ever saw it was in ITF TKD.

+1.

I also remember it from old(er)-style TKD, and always thought of it as coming from there. The first time I saw the "superman punch" was back in the 1970s, and remembered it as called, in English, the jump-up punch.

[Chadderz]

I didn't see anything really resembling a Superman punch,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_punch

Although I'm not denying that it does happen in other martial arts, I'm just saying I didn't see you pull it off.

The purpose of the Superman punch, or กระโดดชก in thai, is to fake a kick whilst in the air, leaving the face exposed.

[TenTigers]

First time I saw it, the evil TKD guy with the eye patch in,"Best of the Best," threw it.

Then I learned it in CLF as Fei Charp Choy.

[-N-]

I didn't see anything really resembling a Superman punch,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_punch

Although I'm not denying that it does happen in other martial arts, I'm just saying I didn't see you pull it off.

The purpose of the Superman punch, or กระโดดชก in thai, is to fake a kick whilst in the air, leaving the face exposed.

"The technique involves bringing the rear leg forward to feign a kick, then snapping the leg back while throwing a cross, resulting in greater power behind the punch."

In the Mantis sequence, the raised knee takes the place of the kick feint. Literally taken, it is a knee attack. But in understanding the form, it represents any leg method including knee, kick, feint, avoid, or just a jumping in footwork.

The MT approach kicks the raised leg back to generate counterbalancing force to add to the punching power.

Mantis throws the lead hand back after the grabbing control to generate the counterbalancing force. Mantis calls that concept split force.

Mantis also steps into the jump as opposed to the direct jump in the MT example. That is part of the Mantis training for explosively covering a large distance. It is training for worst case situation. If the distance is close, the step is not required.

So the details are not exactly the same. But the concepts related or the same depending on what level you look at things.

[-N-]

There is another Mantis footwork which shares related physics with the superman punch.

If you don't jump up so high, and you do the counterbalancing kick motion so that your foot jams into the ground to launch you forward to power the punch, you have the Din Bo footwork.

The idea is the same - to generate a lot of momentum in a short distance.

[MeiHuaBR]

Yeah, this "TCMA don't work in MMA", or worst "TCMA don't work in a fight" is pure bull****. But the biggest problem I see is how the is teached in the schools. I had a mantis teacher that was from Chute Boxe, a famous MMA school in Brasil. He showed me a lot of things that was directly relationed with mantis, but was made from a MMA metodology.

Today I believe that if we want TCMA to be well respected as a fighter choice, we have to evolve the method of training. Specially the physical preparation. And before anyone says, I knows there's some teachers that already do that, but they are minority. And a biggest exchange is essencial also.

But anyway, as I said before, I'm not saying it's the same move. But as -N- (sorry, I don't know your name) said, they share concepts.

I like the after also, the elbow strike smashing the opponent. I can almost imagine the line of reasoning:

"Okay, I'm running, pressing the guy backwards... so if I want to produce a lot of damage I have to use this momentum. If I jump here and punch... hmmm okay, nice. But I want to continue... I'm already in the air, so a elbow strike would be nice, especially if I got him down. But if I hit him with my punch, he'll be knocked down or out of my range, and my rate of sucess is low.... so.... I grab him before the punch and strike with the elbow after, still holding him... them I just continue with a backstab punch."

Sorry guys, just nonsense.

[sanjuro_ronin]

First time I saw it, the evil TKD guy with the eye patch in,"Best of the Best," threw it.

Then I learned it in CLF as Fei Charp Choy.

Can't remember if that was Philip or Simon Rhee...

[dirtyrat]

Can't remember if that was Philip or Simon Rhee...

i believe it was Simon Rhee. i used to use this punch instinctively when i was kid. everyone i fought was always taller than me...

[Michael Dasargo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntklTX3MDPg&feature=player_embedded

Superman demonstrated in the video above at the 24 second mark.

Note that in the superman punch, the kicking leg stays OFF the ground, and the front foot skips.

In Mantis Boxing, the rear leg initiates the launch, then switches to posting leg position, with the FRONT leg kicking/faking, so that we can get to work with TLQ hands.

Mike

[Tainan Mantis]

I put a small picture of a Superman punch on this page
Tampa Kungfu (http://www.tampakungfu.com/)

They were just joking around after class, but I put it on the website because I thought it looked fun.

[Dragonzbane76]

There is nothing new on this earth. Cavemen were probably beating each other up with the same punch.