Bill Cosby is tired

[sanjuro_ronin]

From an email I got:

"I'm 76 and I'm Tired"

I'm 76. Except for a brief period in the 50's when I was doing my National

Service, I've worked hard since I was 17. Except for some some serious

health challenges, I put in 50-hour weeks, and didn't call in sick in nearly

40 years. I made a reasonable salary, but I didn't inherit my job or my

income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, it looks as

though retirement was a bad idea, and I'm tired. Very tired.

I'm tired of being told that I have to "spread the wealth" to people who

don't have my work ethic. I'm tired of being told the government will take

the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy

to earn it.

I'm tired of being told that Islam is a "Religion of Peace," when every day I

can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and

daughters for their family "honor"; of Muslims rioting over some slight

offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren't

"believers"; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning

teenage rape victims to death for "adultery"; of Muslims mutilating the

genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur'an and

Shari'a law tells them to.

I'm tired of being told that out of "tolerance for other cultures" we must let

Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries use our oil money to fund mosques

and madrassa Islamic schools to preach hate in Australia , New Zealand ,

UK, America and Canada , while no one from these countries are allowed to

fund a church, synagogue or religious school in Saudi Arabia or any other

Arab country to teach love and tolerance..

I'm tired of being told I must lower my living standard to fight global

warming, which no one is allowed to debate.

I'm tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help

support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ

rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses

or stick a needle in their arm while they tried to fight it off?

I'm tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of all

parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful

mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting

caught. I'm tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor.

I'm really tired of people who don't take responsibility for their lives and

actions. I'm tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination

or big-whatever for their problems.

I'm also tired and fed up with seeing young men and women in their teens and

early 20's be-deck them selves in tattoos and face studs, thereby making

themselves un-employable and claiming money from the Government.

Yes, I'm **** tired. But I'm also glad to be 76... Because, mostly, I'm not

going to have to see the world these people are making. I'm just sorry for

my granddaughter and her children. Thank God I'm on the way out and not

on the way in.

[bawang]

did bill cosby really say it?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Supposedly.
I can see him say something like that, sure.

[wenshu]

Really?

http://billcosby.com/site/2011/09/if-you-got-the-bogus-email-its-time-to-hit-delete.html

If you got the BOGUS email, it's time to hit DELETE!
There's an email floating around - entitled "I'm 76 and tired" - purportedly sent by me. I did not write the email, I did not send the email, I'm not 76, and I don't subscribe to the ugly views expressed in the email. We are coming up to an important anniversary on Sunday, which is a day when we should all come together. Whoever wrote this email is not thinking about our country, or what is important. If you get the email, it's time to hit DELETE.


You know what else I'm tired of? Millionaires who think they are entitled to paying 15% in taxes on income from investment dividends and capital gains.

Paying less than half of what people who actually work for a living do is the ultimate entitlement.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Really?

http://billcosby.com/site/2011/09/if-you-got-the-bogus-email-its-time-to-hit-delete.html



You know what else I'm tired of? Millionaires who think they are entitled to paying 15% in taxes on income from investment dividends and capital gains.

Paying less than half of what people who actually work for a living do is the ultimate entitlement.

Ah so it wasn't from him? interesting.
Having heard some of his views before, some of what was mentioned seemed in line with what he said.
Is that a poke at Romney? :D

[mawali]

An expression of rational sentiment(s) in this day and age!
Whatever happened to freedom? Just sayin'!

[sanjuro_ronin]

One may agree with the views but of they were NOT expressed by Bill and someone is saying they are then that is simply fraud.

[hskwarrior]

I personally agree with what bill or bill cosby didn't say about the muslim faith. what God tells you to kill your female family members over HONOR? i'm truly disgusted with what we see in regards to ISLAM......the religion that HUNGERS to kill people for even the slightest reasons. still, this is no GOD i plan to worship.

[WingChunABQ]

Really?

http://billcosby.com/site/2011/09/if-you-got-the-bogus-email-its-time-to-hit-delete.html



You know what else I'm tired of? Millionaires who think they are entitled to paying 15% in taxes on income from investment dividends and capital gains.

Paying less than half of what people who actually work for a living do is the ultimate entitlement.

For the Win.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I personally agree with what bill or bill cosby didn't say about the muslim faith. what God tells you to kill your female family members over HONOR? i'm truly disgusted with what we see in regards to ISLAM......the religion that HUNGERS to kill people for even the slightest reasons. still, this is no GOD i plan to worship.

Mohameds interpretation of God's will was just that, HIS interpretation.
That those that came after agreed with it, well...it makes you wonder what environment they wanted to create and what environment they were in to go along with it.
I think it is always important to realize that it isn't the person that voices an opinion, an interpretation, that cause people to do horrific things.
Heck free will is a ***** in that regard and NO MUSLIM ( or any other member of any religion or faith) can ever fall back on the "that was what I was told" excuse.
If more people realized that, perhaps things would be far different.
One must make a conscious decision about who's words we will follow, who's words we will accepted as being "Of God".

[hskwarrior]

Mohameds interpretation of God's will was just that, HIS interpretation.

He also told his followers that it was perfectly ok to trick non muslims into being muslims. I wonder how many people Mohammed tricked and lied to prior to becoming a muslim. LOL

[sanjuro_ronin]

He also told his followers that it was perfectly ok to trick non muslims into being muslims. I wonder how many people Mohammed tricked and lied to prior to becoming a muslim. LOL

We may never know, what we do know is that MANY were and still are, willing to die and kill for the interpretation of one man's idea of God's will.
What we must realize is that it is not HIS fault, but THEIR fault.
If one truly believes in a God and that doing certain things and believing certain things gives one eternal life or eternal punishment, then you would think that those people would understand the consequences of THEIR choices and actions.
Alas, it doesn't seem to be the case and far too many think they can "get off " on the technicality of " Hey, this is what I was told to believe".
People don't want to accept THEIR responsibility in all this.

[WingChunABQ]

He also told his followers that it was perfectly ok to trick non muslims into being muslims. I wonder how many people Mohammed tricked and lied to prior to becoming a muslim. LOL

You got this information from where?

[sanjuro_ronin]

You got this information from where?

I think he means these parts:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/011-taqiyya.htm

[WingChunABQ]

We may never know, what we do know is that MANY were and still are, willing to die and kill for the interpretation of one man's idea of God's will.
What we must realize is that it is not HIS fault, but THEIR fault.
If one truly believes in a God and that doing certain things and believing certain things gives one eternal life or eternal punishment, then you would think that those people would understand the consequences of THEIR choices and actions.
Alas, it doesn't seem to be the case and far too many think they can "get off " on the technicality of " Hey, this is what I was told to believe".
People don't want to accept THEIR responsibility in all this.

We also need to realize that Muslims have no monopoly on doing boneheaded, evil things in the name of religion. They happen to be doing it in the Information Age when everybody can see it, but let's not forget the long, long, long, long litany of hideous things people across the globe have done in the nameS of their religionS.

Including:
- Protestants and Catholics slaughtering each other all over Europe over differences in belief
- Japanese in WWII engaging in Kamikaze attacks, civilian suicide and the atrocities done across Asia (Rape of Nanking, anyone?) in the name of nationalist religion
- Spanish Inquisition
- Puritans burning women at the stake/hanging them on suspicion of witchcraft
- Spanish Catholic slaughter and subjugation of the Native American populations in the southwestern US and across Central/South America, done in the name of religion
- Christians shooting abortion clinic doctors
- Aparteid-esque policies of the state of Israel against the Arab populations within its borders and controlled lands

This list could go on for a long, long, long time. But here's the thing: Should we indict all Catholics, Christians and Jews for the evil actions that some do in their name? Nope.

It'd be like saying that every German approves of and is actively engaged in Nazi atrocities, like every American approves of and is actively engaged in the My Lai Massacre. And that would be dumb.

[wenshu]

Is that a poke at Romney? :D

I think it is good that someone with Romney's financial background is running. It will help bring attention to the utter hypocrisy and outright lies of the GOP's "don't raise taxes on job creators" talking point B.S.

How does investment capital hidden in overseas tax shelters create middle class jobs?

The only jobs it creates are for the politicians, lobbyists and superPACS themselves who in turn reward their benefactors with more millionaire entitlement tax breaks while distracting the people who support them (who they are actually screwing over) with dog whistle social issue politics as illustrated by that inflammatory, xenophobic, science hating screed.

[hskwarrior]

You got this information from where?

are you muslim? I got this information directly from a MUSLIM.....

shortened story in relation to this:

A middle eastern Christian had a Muslim friend who kept trying to convert him to islam. The Christian kept saying that he couldn't be a muslim because he liked to have sex, drink, and do some of the things against islamic law. The muslim kept pushing the issue then one day said to his christian friend that it was perfectly ok to do all those things as ALLAH was a good God.

The Christian guy gave it some thought and decided to convert and recited whatever he needed to to convert. It was after the conversion when the muslim turned to his new convert and said "Oh, now that you are a muslim we will kill you if you smoke, do drugs, have sex....etc etc"..........hence it is ok according to Mohammed to trick new converts into joining islam.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think it is good that someone with Romney's financial background is running. It will help bring attention to the utter hypocrisy and outright lies of the GOP's "don't raise taxes on job creators" talking point B.S.

How does investment capital hidden in overseas tax shelters create middle class jobs?

The only jobs it creates are for the politicians, lobbyists and superPACS themselves who in turn reward their benefactors with more millionaire entitlement tax breaks while distracting the people who support them (who they are actually screwing over) with dog whistle social issue politics as illustrated by that inflammatory, xenophobic, science hating screed.

Don't get me started on government dude, just don't :mad:

[WingChunABQ]

I think he means these parts:
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/011-taqiyya.htm

And that is a scholarly, peer-reviewed resource managed by people who are experts on Islamic theology, the Arabic language, the history of the founding of the religion, and so forth?

Don't think so.

So when the Bible says that women should submit to their husbands or else (Ephesians 5:22-24), or that they need to be quiet and submissive or else (1 Timothy), does that mean that Christianity justifies domestic violence?

Of course not. But plenty of folks can take that stuff out of context, put their fingers on those verses and claim that all Christians, fueled by their religion, support and indeed do beat their wives. And that'd be dumb too.

[wenshu]

Don't get me started on government dude, just don't :mad:

Yea, if I was Canadian I'd be ****ed too. Eh. 囧

USA! USA! USA!

http://i.imgur.com/3GOlS.gif

[hskwarrior]

So when the Bible says that women should submit to their husbands or else (Ephesians 5:22-24), or that they need to be quiet and submissive or else (1 Timothy), does that mean that Christianity justifies domestic violence?

That is something a MAN had written. I highly doubt a GOD would believe a woman should submit to her husband. I don't believe in religion or the bible, or the quran, all which was written by man.

[sanjuro_ronin]

And that is a scholarly, peer-reviewed resource managed by people who are experts on Islamic theology, the Arabic language, the history of the founding of the religion, and so forth?

Don't think so.

So when the Bible says that women should submit to their husbands or else (Ephesians 5:22-24), or that they need to be quiet and submissive or else (1 Timothy), does that mean that Christianity justifies domestic violence?

Of course not. But plenty of folks can take that stuff out of context, put their fingers on those verses and claim that all Christians, fueled by their religion, support and indeed do beat their wives. And that'd be dumb too.

Frank has answered your question himself and no, that was not a peer-reviewed website or whatever dude.
And yes, context is crucial and the links in that side do indeed show context by the way.
And peer-reviwed in religion simply means "peer-reviewed by someone giving their interpretation that is just their interpretation also".
Theology is NOT science dude and this coming from someone ( me) working on his Bachelors in Theology.

[hskwarrior]

Just in case you don't happen to believe me.....basically the same story i was told.


Taqiyya: The trick is to convert people to islam by any possible way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVJEMD3GA3w


ISLAM NO BUENO.

[wenshu]

It's ridiculous for Christians and Jews to label Islam as barbaric when all three share the same Old Testament.

The slit your son's throat, impregnate your daughter, rape your sister Old Testament.

[hskwarrior]

It's ridiculous for Christians and Jews to label Islam as barbaric when all three share the same Old Testament.

The slit your son's throat, impregnate your daughter, rape your sister Old Testament.

there's only one god. with so many roads with all of their bumps and potholes, i don't support any religion. God is within us, all we have to do is listen. you don't need christians, muslims, buddhists, protestants or whatever to tell you how to believe in the lord.

[WingChunABQ]

are you muslim?

Yes in fact, I am.




A middle eastern Christian had a Muslim friend who kept trying to convert him to islam. The Christian kept saying that he couldn't be a muslim because he liked to have sex, drink, and do some of the things against islamic law. The muslim kept pushing the issue then one day said to his christian friend that it was perfectly ok to do all those things as ALLAH was a good God.

The Christian guy gave it some thought and decided to convert and recited whatever he needed to to convert. It was after the conversion when the muslim turned to his new convert and said "Oh, now that you are a muslim we will kill you if you smoke, do drugs, have sex....etc etc"..........hence it is ok according to Mohammed to trick new converts into joining islam.

So the dude you mentioned in your story was named Mohammed, and it was okay for him to trick new converts? Or are you saying that the religion itself has some kind of directive for its followers to trick people?

[WingChunABQ]

Just in case you don't happen to believe me.....basically the same story i was told.


Taqiyya: The trick is to convert people to islam by any possible way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVJEMD3GA3w


ISLAM NO BUENO.

So you're taking what one guy says on Youtube, translated with subtitles (unless you speak Egyptian Arabic well enough to know what the guy is saying) as a normative, proscriptive directive to be follow by all Muslims worldwide and for all time?

Pretty faulty logic there.

Does the Westboro Baptist Church speak for all Christians? Nope.

[hskwarrior]

So the dude you mentioned in your story was named Mohammed, and it was okay for him to trick new converts? Or are you saying that the religion itself has some kind of directive for its followers to trick people?

i never said the dude in the story was mohammed. if you want to know what i'm saying.....watch your muslim brother in the video. these are words from a muslim, not a christian, nor a catholic, and not from any other religion other than ISLAM.

I've watch many many videos on islam, even watched a good number of "THE DEEN SHOW". I've seen video's of leaders telling its people that it is against islamic law to post up pictures of yourself on Facebook. He told them they should take them down and only post pictures of tree's and oceans. I also DON'T agree with any religion that says if you don't convert, or try to renounce islam they'll kill you. Can't apologize for my utter despise of HONOR KILLINGS.

I am not religious what so ever. i just wanted to see why ISLAM is trying to take over the world.

[hskwarrior]

So you're taking what one guy says on Youtube, translated with subtitles (unless you speak Egyptian Arabic well enough to know what the guy is saying) as a normative, proscriptive directive to be follow by all Muslims worldwide and for all time?

Pretty faulty logic there.

Does the Westboro Baptist Church speak for all Christians? Nope.

WHO stands up to these MUSLIMS and tries to convince them they are only harming the religion by spouting the things they do? who polices them?

I don't hate muslims, i hate religion. I used to work for a Muslim. I would talk with him about things like terrorists and such. he enlightened me to a different view point in which i do have a different understanding of life in his country. i also will never tell anyone NOT to go to a religion as i know everyone needs GOD.

But, if religion was like a buffet, all layed out in front of me, based on what i've seen, heard, experienced, and researched ISLAM is not for me. never will be.

[GLW]

Like it matters if someone is "tricked" into becoming Muslim.

There is enough blood to go around. The Inquisition is a good example.

Looking for someone like Bill Cosby to say something that you can then use to support YOUR views - how weak. Why not just put your own views out there instead....even if they are a bit distasteful....

Unless, of course, you secretly know that they are wrong.

[hskwarrior]

Like it matters if someone is "tricked" into becoming Muslim.

really? I'd be pretty upset if i got tricked into a religion that claims it will kill you if you try to leave it.

in fact. aside for my love of GOD, Im pretty upset that Christianity tricked me. but i left that religion behind and no one has ever threatened my life for doing so.

[WingChunABQ]

Frank has answered your question himself and no, that was not a peer-reviewed website or whatever dude.
And yes, context is crucial and the links in that side do indeed show context by the way.
And peer-reviwed in religion simply means "peer-reviewed by someone giving their interpretation that is just their interpretation also".
Theology is NOT science dude and this coming from someone ( me) working on his Bachelors in Theology.

No, they show a biased perspective on some quotes taken out of context.

So you're telling me, as a university student in Theology, that good research practices include just taking what anybody says on their word? That one guy's interpretation of something vast, elliptical and metaphoric is as good as another? JoeBlowsOpinions.com has the same authority to intrepret scripture as a Rabbi, priest, imam or monk?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sometimes we forget that religion in of itself has nothing to answer for, people on the other hand, have lots to answer for.
The real issue is that people let themselves be led but a minority and what they do, they will have to answer for and I just wish more people would realize that.
Christianity is a religion of love and compassion and peace and yet, people have been led by individual to commit horrific acts in its name.
And the same can be said for the vast majority of ideologies, religious or otherwise.
The common denominator being people led by a minority to do something that deep down they KNOW to be wrong.
Go figure.
Long before religion as we know it ever came to be, people were doing as such.
What religion has done is point out that this was wrong and the fact that man has taken religion and done what it preaches most vemently against, just shows how powerful the urge to F things up really is.

[sanjuro_ronin]

No, they show a biased perspective on some quotes taken out of context.

So you're telling me, as a university student in Theology, that good research practices include just taking what anybody says on their word? That one guy's interpretation of something vast, elliptical and metaphoric is as good as another? JoeBlowsOpinions.com has the same authority to intrepret scripture as a Rabbi, priest, imam or monk?

I don't think I said that but the fact is that when interpreting any ancient text, even withing context, we still get a mirad of interpretations.
Of course we are all slaves to our preconceived notions and the environment we are brought up in and those things "taint" our interpretation.
That is why it is crucial to have desenting views on these matters.
I h ave discussed and debated and being to enough lectures of Scholars and Rabbis and so forth to know that "appeal to authority" can be one of the worse "logical fallacies" we have.
Note I said CAN be,

[WingChunABQ]

WHO stands up to these MUSLIMS and tries to convince them they are only harming the religion by spouting the things they do? who polices them?

For certain, not enough moderate people within Muslim communities, and not as forcefully nor as publically as they should. It's profoundly frustrating to those of us who are level headed and not, you know, a$$holes.

Military regimes in the Arab world would, in fact, imprison and torture lots of the extremist guys. This actually made the extremism worse. They went into prison with chips on their shoulders - they left with a mission of revenge which they justified with their own strident, literal interpretations of scripture.

For what it's worth, there are moderate voices out there, but they don't get that much attention because they're not scary and therefore don't sell advertising space on Fox News and CNN as well. Here are a couple of resources for moderate voices, if you're interested:
http://www.zaytunacollege.org/
http://www.daralislam.org/
http://www.masud.co.uk/



I don't hate muslims, i hate religion. I used to work for a Muslim. I would talk with him about things like terrorists and such. he enlightened me to a different view point in which i do have a different understanding of life in his country. i also will never tell anyone NOT to go to a religion as i know everyone needs GOD.

But, if religion was like a buffet, all layed out in front of me, based on what i've seen, heard, experienced, and researched ISLAM is not for me. never will be.

Which is totally cool and I totally respect. Now. Want some FALAFEL!?!?!? MUWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!! (just kidding).

FWIW, I pretty much love religion, but hate religious people for exactly the same reasons you're stating.

[WingChunABQ]

Sometimes we forget that religion in of itself has nothing to answer for, people on the other hand, have lots to answer for.
The real issue is that people let themselves be led but a minority and what they do, they will have to answer for and I just wish more people would realize that.
Christianity is a religion of love and compassion and peace and yet, people have been led by individual to commit horrific acts in its name.
And the same can be said for the vast majority of ideologies, religious or otherwise.
The common denominator being people led by a minority to do something that deep down they KNOW to be wrong.
Go figure.
Long before religion as we know it ever came to be, people were doing as such.
What religion has done is point out that this was wrong and the fact that man has taken religion and done what it preaches most vemently against, just shows how powerful the urge to F things up really is.

I completely agree. Human history can be viewed as a long series of people failing to live up to their most noble potential.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think it is very common to confuse religion with organized religion.
Religion is a set of beliefs about God/afterlife/ the divine nature of the universe.
Organized religion is about a small group pf people trying to impose their view of religion on everyone else.

[hskwarrior]

For certain, not enough moderate people within Muslim communities, and not as forcefully nor as publically as they should. It's profoundly frustrating to those of us who are level headed and not, you know, a$$holes.

I can respect that. I only wish more people would step up and put a muzzle on the ones destroying the image of islam. i knew one guy who said he was Al-Islam and we were good friends. i know a few people who are muslim and they are good loving people. and i hope i didn't offend you much about my personal view of islam and all religion.


Which is totally cool and I totally respect. Now. Want some FALAFEL!?!?!? MUWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!! (just kidding).

hey i tried hummice and liked it. hahahahaha. Falafel, tried that too :D




FWIW, I pretty much love religion, but hate religious people for exactly the same reasons you're stating.

Good to know brother.. i used to love religion until i saw the flaws in it.

[Shǎguā]

I'm Bill Cosby and I disapprove of this massive derail.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm Bill Cosby and I disapprove of this massive derail.

LOL !
A bit of a derail, yes.

[Drake]

Word to the wise. ANY letter written by "Important Person X" spreading typical conservative garbage is always false. There's a large list on snopes.com of these fake letters, with George Carlin, Robin Williams, and now Bill Cosby as authors.

It's NOT something Dr. Cosby would say, because he's much more well spoken and intelligent than that.

As for the muslim debate... try knowing more than one muslim before casting judgment on billions of others.

[WingChunABQ]

I can respect that. I only wish more people would step up and put a muzzle on the ones destroying the image of islam.

Me too!


and i hope i didn't offend you much about my personal view of islam and all religion.


No worries, man. If you'd seen/heard a fraction of the stuff that people say and do to us a LOT, you'd be amazed. BTW, you're in San Francisco. The Zaytuna College is in Hayward, if you want to meet some decent people face to face.

[WingChunABQ]

I'm Bill Cosby and I disapprove of this massive derail.

Whatever dude. I'M Bill Cosby.
:D

[wenshu]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/228/700/tumblr_lwwgunugZS1qcs99do11_r1_500.gif

[WingChunABQ]

Ah Wenshu, is there no day you can't brighten?


:D

[David Jamieson]

Legislate our way out of the oligarchy. It's the only way folks. Just to get back to the middle, laws must be written and enforced and quickly.

There's nothing wrong with making money that you've worked hard to earn. Taxation should not be less on investment income, it should be the same.

Corporations shouldn't have the ear of the government anymore than the indigent should. There must be balance and the only way to get it is rule of law.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The issue is the Law.
Governments are run by lawyers and they do what is in THEIR best interest.
What on earth makes anyone think that a lawyer is qualified to govern a country or run a government?
They make laws to protect themselves and their vested interests.

[Drake]

Oh, and Bill Cosby is 74. That should have been a dead giveaway.

People are so gullible... :D

[wenshu]

Oh, and Bill Cosby is 74. That should have been a dead giveaway.

People are so gullible... :D

The real give away was the lack of any reference to Jello™ Pudding Pops.

http://i.imgur.com/6ijEZ.jpg

[Drake]

I did not catch that. I must train more.

[David Jamieson]

The issue is the Law.
Governments are run by lawyers and they do what is in THEIR best interest.
What on earth makes anyone think that a lawyer is qualified to govern a country or run a government?
They make laws to protect themselves and their vested interests.

I don't think there are enough lawyers in government personally. I would in fact like to see it as a prerequisite to being an elected member of senate or the house or the prime minister to have at least an undergrad degree in law. But I know that's asking a lot and there are no Utopic places really. :p

So, we the people and all that. Even up here. Keep speaking to whoever deems you a constituent. People do react to other people saying things to them and if they don't, they got a limited time to be there.

[Syn7]

We may never know, what we do know is that MANY were and still are, willing to die and kill for the interpretation of one man's idea of God's will.
What we must realize is that it is not HIS fault, but THEIR fault.
If one truly believes in a God and that doing certain things and believing certain things gives one eternal life or eternal punishment, then you would think that those people would understand the consequences of THEIR choices and actions.
Alas, it doesn't seem to be the case and far too many think they can "get off " on the technicality of " Hey, this is what I was told to believe".
People don't want to accept THEIR responsibility in all this.

They don't THINK they they can get away with it. They ARE getting away with it.

[Syn7]

are you muslim? I got this information directly from a MUSLIM.....

shortened story in relation to this:

A middle eastern Christian had a Muslim friend who kept trying to convert him to islam. The Christian kept saying that he couldn't be a muslim because he liked to have sex, drink, and do some of the things against islamic law. The muslim kept pushing the issue then one day said to his christian friend that it was perfectly ok to do all those things as ALLAH was a good God.

The Christian guy gave it some thought and decided to convert and recited whatever he needed to to convert. It was after the conversion when the muslim turned to his new convert and said "Oh, now that you are a muslim we will kill you if you smoke, do drugs, have sex....etc etc"..........hence it is ok according to Mohammed to trick new converts into joining islam.

I was under the impression that true christians didn't have random sex and get drunk. And in some places, even today, it could be punished by death, shaming, etc etc...

[Syn7]

And that is a scholarly, peer-reviewed resource managed by people who are experts on Islamic theology, the Arabic language, the history of the founding of the religion, and so forth?

Don't think so.

So when the Bible says that women should submit to their husbands or else (Ephesians 5:22-24), or that they need to be quiet and submissive or else (1 Timothy), does that mean that Christianity justifies domestic violence?

Of course not. But plenty of folks can take that stuff out of context, put their fingers on those verses and claim that all Christians, fueled by their religion, support and indeed do beat their wives. And that'd be dumb too.

Of course it advocates domestic viloence. The context here is that violence in the family was the norm. That's the context. We don't like it over here in america anymore so we bob and weave our way through new interpretations that suit our daily lifestyle. NOT the other way around. Not anymore anyways.

[Syn7]

really? I'd be pretty upset if i got tricked into a religion that claims it will kill you if you try to leave it.

in fact. aside for my love of GOD, Im pretty upset that Christianity tricked me. but i left that religion behind and no one has ever threatened my life for doing so.

Not here. But there are places in the world where being anything but christian does mean death, mistreatement etc etc...

And on the flipside, in your hood a muslim can choose to not be muslim too. They may have family pressure, but then so do christians. I know people whos fam won't talk to them because they chose to leave the faith. Sad, but true.

Rarely do you see muslim honour killings in america. very rare.

[Syn7]

Legislate our way out of the oligarchy. It's the only way folks. Just to get back to the middle, laws must be written and enforced and quickly.

There's nothing wrong with making money that you've worked hard to earn. Taxation should not be less on investment income, it should be the same.

Corporations shouldn't have the ear of the government anymore than the indigent should. There must be balance and the only way to get it is rule of law.

What we need is ZERO income taxes and consumption taxes on a sliding scale from cheap necessities to expensive luxuries.

And then create a real gold standard and resource based economy. That's just to start. :D

Then what we do is MASSIVE ELECTORAL REFORM with a special look at financing. We create publicly funded grants for candidates and they can spend no more. NO 3rd PARTY support for campaigning parties. Meaning I spend my allotment and then send out special interest groups to trash my opponent. Infact a complete elimination of lobbying for profit or at the very least tax the living sh1t out of any special interest contributions.

We also need to create a general cancellation of personal debts(not corporate) and make lending for profit illegal. PERIOD. It's the only way. The corporates will suffer mostly but they will crawl out eventually and make an honest profit from then on. I have some pretty comprehensive ideas on housing too but it's too deep to get into on a kung fu forum.

I know that isn't very specific, that would take waay too much time. But I think yall see where I'm going with this...

And if any of this did happen, it wouldn't come about peacefully at first. Some people will have to go.

[Syn7]

I don't think there are enough lawyers in government personally. I would in fact like to see it as a prerequisite to being an elected member of senate or the house or the prime minister to have at least an undergrad degree in law. But I know that's asking a lot and there are no Utopic places really. :p

So, we the people and all that. Even up here. Keep speaking to whoever deems you a constituent. People do react to other people saying things to them and if they don't, they got a limited time to be there.

Yeah but there are different kinds of lawyers. The last thing you want is a bunch of litigators running the show.

Classic litigation story. Estate battle. Relatives fight it out and lawyers draw it out over years promising victory to their clients and to not just settle. When it was all done the estate was eaten up by fees and the only ones who won anything were the representatives. Who did they represent? Themselves, of course. Do we want these guys running the house? Hell naw!!!

But yeah, the Constitutional lawyer who knows law and loves to help people would be the perfect legislator, but there are far more responsibilities in running government than legislation. That's just a piece of it. The rest takes a kind of smarts that may be better suited by a business degree.

[David Jamieson]

In my eyes there is a need for intelligent and highly educated people who want to serve their fellow humans to make a better world in public office.

I shudder to think of some of the slack jawed yokels that get elected in Canada. Our last federal election was practically a joke with the election of veritable teenagers not quite out of school with vapid attitudes and less political understanding than what I flushed out of my body this morning.

An embarrassment. But no more so than calling the reform party a conservative party and then putting billy bubbah dull brain into a seat of the highest offices in our land.

You say you want a revolution? Well, you know we all wanna change the world. But come on, it is startling how much voice we give to the ignorant yokels out there.

I'm with Aristotle. Governance by the indigent is as useless as governance by the wealthy. It's going to have to be mapped to a different model because people are fed up.

[Drake]

In my eyes there is a need for intelligent and highly educated people who want to serve their fellow humans to make a better world in public office.

I shudder to think of some of the slack jawed yokels that get elected in Canada. Our last federal election was practically a joke with the election of veritable teenagers not quite out of school with vapid attitudes and less political understanding than what I flushed out of my body this morning.

An embarrassment. But no more so than calling the reform party a conservative party and then putting billy bubbah dull brain into a seat of the highest offices in our land.

You say you want a revolution? Well, you know we all wanna change the world. But come on, it is startling how much voice we give to the ignorant yokels out there.

I'm with Aristotle. Governance by the indigent is as useless as governance by the wealthy. It's going to have to be mapped to a different model because people are fed up.

Sometimes intelligent and highly educated people make ****ty leaders. I see that very often. They have the smarts and the education, but they can't lead their way out of a wet paper bag.

[Syn7]

In my eyes there is a need for intelligent and highly educated people who want to serve their fellow humans to make a better world in public office.

I shudder to think of some of the slack jawed yokels that get elected in Canada. Our last federal election was practically a joke with the election of veritable teenagers not quite out of school with vapid attitudes and less political understanding than what I flushed out of my body this morning.

An embarrassment. But no more so than calling the reform party a conservative party and then putting billy bubbah dull brain into a seat of the highest offices in our land.

You say you want a revolution? Well, you know we all wanna change the world. But come on, it is startling how much voice we give to the ignorant yokels out there.

I'm with Aristotle. Governance by the indigent is as useless as governance by the wealthy. It's going to have to be mapped to a different model because people are fed up.

But taking only the brightest into the fold would just create a new kind of oligarchy.

I'm really tired of people saying what's wrong without offering solutions. How come I never see solutions? Just arguments as to why whoever disagrees is wrong. It's really sad to see what has become the political norm around here. We suck. We will be our own undoing. Why should we fear China and muslims when we are a bunch of sedentric pharmajunkie brats who feel like the world owes us happiness and if we can't find it for real we'll fake it with pills and lying to ourselves. The sense of entitlement where I live is just disgusting. In every place I have ever lived, actually. The poor are no different in that regard either. They see riches around them and are bitter that it isn't theirs and feel it should be theirs. The wealthy feel like everyone is there to serve them and the middle class is the worst of all because for the most part they just do as they are told. At least rich kids and poor kids make moves. Our society is sick from top to bottom.

[Drake]

Wow... talk about sweeping generalizations...

[Syn7]

You say you want a revolution? Well, you know we all wanna change the world. But come on, it is startling how much voice we give to the ignorant yokels out there.

And the simple truth is that those people need to go if we want to change for the better. We need to weed the garden. It's harsh, but nobody told them to be selfish j3rkoffs. That was their call. Arrogant families will need to be "disappeared". The only injustice in that is that they victimized their children by having them and passing on their superior garbage. How much money or schooling they have is besides the point. Oligarchical democracy is a lie. We aren't better off because we vote, we're better off cause we're wealthy.


Interesting you bring up Aristotle. I was just reading about how the Athenians drew lots for public servant positions to avoid becoming too polarized. They were afraid professional government servants would use those skills for self benefit. So they decided the average citizen was better for the offices of government. They drew lots to see who would be a judge, who would be a treasurer etc etc. Obviously some jobs couldn't be done by unskilled labor and eventually the whole system evolved back into an oligarchy. Personally I disagree with Robert Michels Iron Law of Oligarchy. We can work together and not sh1t on each other but we will have to change our nature to do this. And we've already started, a long time ago. Freedom of speech and everyone having a say is all good in theory but there are times when certain ideas need to be removed from the public consciousness as best as possible. My utopia does NOT have everyone running around doing whatever they want, good intentions or otherwise. People are not all equal and therefor total equality is NOT possible. But we can come close and at least give everybody the dignity and respect they deserve by giving everyone a fair shot at taking care of themselves. Except for those that take advantage of huge masses of people,like I said before, they need to go.

[Syn7]

Wow... talk about sweeping generalizations...

Well you should be more than used to seeing that!

[Syn7]

Sometimes intelligent and highly educated people make ****ty leaders. I see that very often. They have the smarts and the education, but they can't lead their way out of a wet paper bag.

And some stupid people are great leaders who lead men off a cliff. Clearly he meant smart people with leadership skills. Not just people with high IQ's. The smartest people are usually the most disfunctional. They understand too much. Whereas the average cat does get bogged down in the specifics like that. That's psych 101 sh1t right there.

[mawali]

Just in case you don't happen to believe me.....basically the same story i was told.


Taqiyya: The trick is to convert people to islam by any possible way.

ISLAM NO BUENO.

Taqiyya is no trick! It is only foolish people who are tricked by the deception.
One judges a man by his action and deeds!

Actually it is similar to politicians who say they are for most Americans but they vote with the .00001%, ,or those politicians who claim they believe in freedom of choice for themselves but want to deny choice for others who have different views! No difference in my book! A trick is a trick is a trick!!!!! Tricks are for fools and ignorant and stupid people and that's a fact!

[hskwarrior]

Taqiyya is no trick! It is only foolish people who are tricked by the deception.
One judges a man by his action and deeds!

Actually it is similar to politicians who say they are for most Americans but they vote with the .00001%, ,or those politicians who claim they believe in freedom of choice for themselves but want to deny choice for others who have different views! No difference in my book! A trick is a trick is a trick!!!!! Tricks are for fools and ignorant and stupid people and that's a fact!

its all a trick to me. in regards to religion and someone trying to covert others and people begin to call others stupid, foolish, or even gullible indicates to me you might be one of them who believe its ok to trick, fool, or deceive to get someone to believe in your god. if i am wrong, my bad........ I still say **** RELIGION. its for fanatics. :)

however, i do believe all will come to know religion is no bueno in due time. everyone isn't on the same spiritual level. i believe the sheading of the connection to organized religion you will come to truly know spirituality. not all the mystical bs......true spirituality.

ALL RELIGION on earth is going to face a instant extinction upon the admittance of alien life in the universe.

[bawang]

Really?

http://billcosby.com/site/2011/09/if-you-got-the-bogus-email-its-time-to-hit-delete.html



You know what else I'm tired of? Millionaires who think they are entitled to paying 15% in taxes on income from investment dividends and capital gains.

Paying less than half of what people who actually work for a living do is the ultimate entitlement.

i didnt think so. black people dont hate muslims.

[YouKnowWho]

Wow... talk about sweeping generalizations...
The following attitude is something I can never be able to figure out.


"I'm allowed to have WMD, but I won't allow you to have WMD."

[David Jamieson]

The following attitude is something I can never be able to figure out.


"I'm allowed to have WMD, but I won't allow you to have WMD."

I don't think anyone should have nuclear weapons or wmd of any sort.
Those that do have it should reduce what they have until it is all utterly eliminated in the name of humanity. And no one should be starting to make more. No one.

So, it falls with the ones who have made the error already to correct it in themselves and to have the know how and power to prevent it from happening with others.

I don't feel equanimity applies whatsoever when it comes to this.

[Drake]

The following attitude is something I can never be able to figure out.


"I'm allowed to have WMD, but I won't allow you to have WMD."

You think that's bad, you should have seen the **** we did during the Cold War...

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is a huge disconnect between those running government and the people that voted them in.
We are talking almost at the level of Marie Antonette.
Being a lawyers qualififes you to debate and discuss and implement Laws, it does not qualify to you run a country or city, to do finace or anything to do with health care.
Lawyers in the "legal" branches of government, sure, that is who should be there.
Running a country? No, not even close.
Especially not any of the lawyers I know, LOL !

[David Jamieson]

There is a huge disconnect between those running government and the people that voted them in.
We are talking almost at the level of Marie Antonette.
Being a lawyers qualififes you to debate and discuss and implement Laws, it does not qualify to you run a country or city, to do finace or anything to do with health care.
Lawyers in the "legal" branches of government, sure, that is who should be there.
Running a country? No, not even close.
Especially not any of the lawyers I know, LOL !


Guy, have you seen who sits in the Houses of Parliament?
I would like to demand that we have a better quality of mind in any of those chairs.
For an individual to have put forth the 4 to 6 years to get to the bar and including the amount of mental ability required to get there I would rather that than some racist farmer from saskatchewan in a suit licking at steve's boots and giving him all his votes or some vapid young girl all of 22 who used to work as a ****tail waitress in a club and whose major is liberal arts which she has just barely one year completed as a freshman.

No thanks. Our system is broken, most systems are. We live in a country where business and corporations direct the government to do what is best for them, not for the people.

Most people don't have the guts to deal with that and half the people are too **** ignorant or greedy themselves to understand what the problem with that is.

The last decade has seen polarization. Anytime you see intellectuals in society diminished by ignoramus' such as creationists, racists, out of touch inheritance kids etc, you're looking at a set up to the enslavement of the masses that are asking for it by NOT getting up to speed or because they're afraid about their jobs or they are just plain old uneducated about most things that are worthwhile to know something about.

superbowl and american idol are more important to people than foreign policy and truth in government.

the stupid get what they deserve in my opinion.

I would rather live in a world where personal integrity is what has value. Right now, there is not that and it is decaying rapidly and quickly into crap.

Another 10 years? Maybe won't even happen at this pace.Too much hate, greed and ignorance in the world. The system we live in has been set up to trap you into having to use it in order to be part of the greater society. If you do not conform, you are cast aside and regarded as less than.

Believe it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Guy, have you seen who sits in the Houses of Parliament?
I would like to demand that we have a better quality of mind in any of those chairs.
For an individual to have put forth the 4 to 6 years to get to the bar and including the amount of mental ability required to get there I would rather that than some racist farmer from saskatchewan in a suit licking at steve's boots and giving him all his votes or some vapid young girl all of 22 who used to work as a ****tail waitress in a club and whose major is liberal arts which she has just barely one year completed as a freshman.

No thanks. Our system is broken, most systems are. We live in a country where business and corporations direct the government to do what is best for them, not for the people.

Most people don't have the guts to deal with that and half the people are too **** ignorant or greedy themselves to understand what the problem with that is.

The last decade has seen polarization. Anytime you see intellectuals in society diminished by ignoramus' such as creationists, racists, out of touch inheritance kids etc, you're looking at a set up to the enslavement of the masses that are asking for it by NOT getting up to speed or because they're afraid about their jobs or they are just plain old uneducated about most things that are worthwhile to know something about.

superbowl and american idol are more important to people than foreign policy and truth in government.

the stupid get what they deserve in my opinion.

I would rather live in a world where personal integrity is what has value. Right now, there is not that and it is decaying rapidly and quickly into crap.

Another 10 years? Maybe won't even happen at this pace.Too much hate, greed and ignorance in the world. The system we live in has been set up to trap you into having to use it in order to be part of the greater society. If you do not conform, you are cast aside and regarded as less than.

Believe it.

I do know who sits there, a few of them better that I would like.
A little story:
My mom was a nanny for a family member of a certain premier of Ontario.
She told me that she would never vote for him because " A man that can't govern his home, can't govern anything".
She was 100% correct as history proved.
The fact that the people the run for government are quite possibly the ones that should NEVER be elected, speaks volumes.
Who was it that said that "no man that wins an election, deserves to" ?
Your issues with Harper are irrelevant.
Need I mention Mulroney and Chretian, both Lawyers and both horrific ( Chretian perhaps less so, but oh my the corruption).

The disconnect between the typical person in federal or provincial government ) elected official, although employees seem to also be in a lad of their own), is stunning. I know I have seen it up close and personal AND officially.

Somewhere along the lines politician forgot they are first and foremost CIVIL SERVANTS, they work for US, not the other way around.

[ShaolinDan]

I do know who sits there, a few of them better that I would like.
A little story:
My mom was a nanny for a family member of a certain premier of Ontario.
She told me that she would never vote for him because " A man that can't govern his home, can't govern anything".
She was 100% correct as history proved.


Wow, how Confucian! Smart mom. :)

[David Jamieson]

I do know who sits there, a few of them better that I would like.
A little story:
My mom was a nanny for a family member of a certain premier of Ontario.
She told me that she would never vote for him because " A man that can't govern his home, can't govern anything".
She was 100% correct as history proved.

Then you should know that qualified is something many of them ain't and secondly who and what has history proven. The little story means nothing without a name.



The fact that the people the run for government are quite possibly the ones that should NEVER be elected, speaks volumes.
Who was it that said that "no man that wins an election, deserves to" ?
Your issues with Harper are irrelevant.
Need I mention Mulroney and Chretian, both Lawyers and both horrific ( Chretian perhaps less so, but oh my the corruption). Mulroney failed the bar twice and was recruited by the cons in HIS freshman year. my issues with Harper? Where did you read that into it? Harper is a leash holder. That's obvious and has nothing to do with my perception and everything to do with how he runs his cabinet and government.


The disconnect between the typical person in federal or provincial government ) elected official, although employees seem to also be in a lad of their own), is stunning. I know I have seen it up close and personal AND officially.

Somewhere along the lines politician forgot they are first and foremost CIVIL SERVANTS, they work for US, not the other way around. People function on the primary rule of self interest. No matter who they are.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Then you should know that qualified is something many of them ain't and secondly who and what has history proven. The little story means nothing without a name.

Mulroney failed the bar twice and was recruited by the cons in HIS freshman year. my issues with Harper? Where did you read that into it? Harper is a leash holder. That's obvious and has nothing to do with my perception and everything to do with how he runs his cabinet and government.

People function on the primary rule of self interest. No matter who they are.

Bob Rae was the name.
The sorry state of the WORLD governments is a fact, that the world governments are headed by lawyers is also a fact.
That governments pass laws to benefit themselves and not the people they work for is pretty obvious.
The governments run a deficit and then borrow money to cover the deficit THEY made and pass the bill to US, is also obvious.

[David Jamieson]

Bob Rae.

hmmmn, maybe you should read this: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/the-hidden-history-of-bob-raes-government-in-ontario/article1749515/

The story is nice, but it is contrite. I can't think of anyone's family that is in complete accord.

Especially if the kids are teens. (when yours get there, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. lol ) Not hope, no prayer, no lock and chain will keep kids from rebelling and resenting you at some point.

Maybe the nanny got to see some bad days, but there's been worse since Rae. Namely Mike Harris. Who collects your taxes to build infrastructure, then sells the infrastructure for profit and now you have to pay to use the infrastructure you already paid for and you have to pay a foreigner to use it too! Thanks conservatives!

Ah well, I know in the end I'll be just fine and not worrieda bout any of it at all. Mainly because I'll be dead... :)

[Sardinkahnikov]

You think that's bad, you should have seen the **** we did during the Cold War...

IMO: modern history shows us that national States are not really bent on creating a fair and peaceful planet, but on benefitting themselves and the big corporations who turn in tax money and further their interests worldwide.

It's like Machiavelli said centuries ago: there are two basic types of virtues: moral and political ones. The survival of the political organization does not depend on how morally upright it is, but rather on it's capacity to supress their external and internal enemies and consolidate de facto power.

[Drake]

Like every other nation on the planet, we put our interests first. It's been that way for thousands of years. And before that, your tribe came first.

[David Jamieson]

Like every other nation on the planet, we put our interests first. It's been that way for thousands of years. And before that, your tribe came first.

In the beginning there was fussin and feudin
still is
the end.

[Syn7]

Taqiyya is no trick! It is only foolish people who are tricked by the deception.
One judges a man by his action and deeds!

Actually it is similar to politicians who say they are for most Americans but they vote with the .00001%, ,or those politicians who claim they believe in freedom of choice for themselves but want to deny choice for others who have different views! No difference in my book! A trick is a trick is a trick!!!!! Tricks are for fools and ignorant and stupid people and that's a fact!

Yeah... those politicians are lying. Whats your point again???

[Syn7]

i didnt think so. black people dont hate muslims.

That's not exactly true. Some blacks like it, some don't. Go talk to some north african whos villiage was slaughtered by the expanding muslim horde, ask them what they think!!!

[Syn7]

The following attitude is something I can never be able to figure out.


"I'm allowed to have WMD, but I won't allow you to have WMD."

No doubt. The US is the only country to actually nuke another nation yet they somehow feel they have the moral highground to enforce everyone disarming except for them. What a joke. The saddest part is that people are buying into it. Not just americans who have been conditioned from birth to believe they are the most righteous, but also some of those they oppress.

[Syn7]

You think that's bad, you should have seen the **** we did during the Cold War...

Which one? aren't the war on terror and the war on drugs also cold wars? They have done abominable sh1t in the name of both of those. Not just hoodwinking their own about the russian threat.

[David Jamieson]

Not here. But there are places in the world where being anything but christian does mean death, mistreatement etc etc...

And on the flipside, in your hood a muslim can choose to not be muslim too. They may have family pressure, but then so do christians. I know people whos fam won't talk to them because they chose to leave the faith. Sad, but true.

Rarely do you see muslim honour killings in america. very rare.

1. where is this CHristian prison country?

2. Cultures that function within the whole sharia model are screwed. You know it, I know it, the only ones who don't know it are the ones who are in it. Mind control garbage much like North Korean leader worship. Moderates don't live in countries that practice sharia.

3. The Shafia family of Kingston Ontario was convicted of carrying out a murder (honour killing) of 4 people (wife #2 brought in as a cousin and 3 daughters) with the Father, the mother and the son each convicted of doing it. This was last week. When cultures bring over the bad stuff as well, this happens, especially when the greater culture (ours in this case) does little to integrate people into the mores of the culture of the majority.

In many respects, Canada is stupid in it's multicultural relativism. It has become nothing more than a good intentioned policy that is now used to divide people politically.

It's easy to cut a cake that has lines marked on it. I"m actually a little surprised that more people don't realize this is what has happened to the original multicultural model in Canada.

We now have what are referred to as "cultural villages" but that is a PC way of saying "upscale ghetto".

In Canada you can fully keep your culture. In America, you can't. You MUST be American first and your culture? yeah keep that to yourself or behind closed doors because Americans don't want to hear you babbling in Pashto or Urdu or Farsi or Swahili in the booth next to them while they are trying to enjoy their tractor trailer sized coca cola with some fries.
:p

[Syn7]

I dunno about country, but I can look for districts, areas etc etc. I'll let you know when I find something specific. But I have read about places that you follow the norm or you don't fare well at all, and many of these places were Christian. I'll let you know.

The Shafia incident was what I was thinking about when I said it happens RARELY. Considering how many Muslims we have, I'd say for the most part they are doing OK so far as killing loved ones is concerned. There were a few over here in the last decade. One I can remember specifically. Pakistani man kills "whoring" daughter who had met a boy and went on a secret date. She was like 15 and just did like dumb girl sh1t like movie dates and maybe a few kisses at the most.

Sharia law sucks, I agree. It's backward and perpetuates more violence than it stems. Not to mention the idea of sharia justice is not very just to all parties considered.


Regardless of what CAN work, what we have here is NOT working. The reasons why are quite clear and I think we all pretty much agree on the basics.


Oh and I completely agree about the dangers of allowing children and simpletons into office simply because they were able to strike an emotional nerve among their constituents. usually either a very conservative cat barking the same ol neo con bull or it's some community college doofus left wing rally organizer with a narrow take on our situation.

[David Jamieson]

It's not that rare though. There have been many cases of so called honour killings or suspected honour killings in teh GTA (Greater Toronto Area).

This is mainly due to the high number of immigrants who stay in Toronto which now has a completely different face than the rest of Canada in many respects.

Toronto is probably one of if not THE most ethnically diverse city on the planet. It has everyone's problems all laser focused into one place.

It is problematic with all the issues in the countries of origins too! Any crap goes down in some country and it's displaced people protest in the streets of Toronto making demands that the Canadian government go and fix their original countries political messes or cultural problems.

It is beyond ridiculous at times.

I keep moving further and further away as the droves of newcomers stay. NOt because I'm intolerant, but because it doesn't work and is impossible to function efficiently in.

I stood in line at a gas station while a guy spoke broken english with a heavy chinese accent to another guy speaking broken english in a heavy arabic accent. It took them about 5 minutes to figure out the chinese guy wanted a pack of gum.

This is plain old stupid and reflective of our poor policies regarding integration, language and so on.

We could do a lot more for these folks to get the stigmatization gone and to increase the acceptance and streamline peoples integration into Canada. Politicians are useless in getting that done it would seem.

When it comes to cultural mores, that is even more important when you are bringing in a lot of people who hang onto their old crap or want Canada to fix their countries. It is in many cases mind boggling in the scope of dumbness on both sides of the coin.

[WingChunABQ]

It would be interesting to compare the statistics between the amounts of domestic violence, either leading to death or not, in the U.S. and Canada and the so called 'honor killings' being referred to here.

Where I live in New Mexico, I know that domestic violence rates are pretty high thanks to poverty, low education and high alcohol consumption, among other factors.

Domestic violence is domestic violence, whether it's done by Muslims, Catholics, Atheists, Flying Spaghetti Monster Worshippers or whoever.

[WingChunABQ]

In the U.S.A.:
According to the American Bar Association, a quarter of of all women in the U.S. have either been raped or abused by a partner/domestic relation at some point in their lives. Around 1.3 million women are physically assaulted by an intimate acquaintence per year, and 33% of female murder victims were killed by intimate partners per year.
http://www.americanbar.org/groups/domestic_violence/resources/statistics.html


Here's another fact sheet by the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence which cites similar numbers but has some other facts on the issue as well.
http://www.ncadv.org/files/DomesticViolenceFactSheet(National).pdf


Worldwide:
The United Nations says that 1/3 of all women worldwide are victims of sexual abuse, assault, or sexual coercion such as being forced into the sex trade.
It states that "thousands" of women are subject to honor killings per year. http://www.unfpa.org/swp/2000/english/ch03.html


I don't care who does it, or for what reasons, or what you call it. I think some of the onus is on the martial arts community to address these situations in our schools, properly prepare potential victims and properly weed out potential victimizers.

[Syn7]

It's not that rare though. There have been many cases of so called honour killings or suspected honour killings in teh GTA (Greater Toronto Area).

This is mainly due to the high number of immigrants who stay in Toronto which now has a completely different face than the rest of Canada in many respects.

Toronto is probably one of if not THE most ethnically diverse city on the planet. It has everyone's problems all laser focused into one place.

It is problematic with all the issues in the countries of origins too! Any crap goes down in some country and it's displaced people protest in the streets of Toronto making demands that the Canadian government go and fix their original countries political messes or cultural problems.

It is beyond ridiculous at times.

I keep moving further and further away as the droves of newcomers stay. NOt because I'm intolerant, but because it doesn't work and is impossible to function efficiently in.

I stood in line at a gas station while a guy spoke broken english with a heavy chinese accent to another guy speaking broken english in a heavy arabic accent. It took them about 5 minutes to figure out the chinese guy wanted a pack of gum.

This is plain old stupid and reflective of our poor policies regarding integration, language and so on.

We could do a lot more for these folks to get the stigmatization gone and to increase the acceptance and streamline peoples integration into Canada. Politicians are useless in getting that done it would seem.

When it comes to cultural mores, that is even more important when you are bringing in a lot of people who hang onto their old crap or want Canada to fix their countries. It is in many cases mind boggling in the scope of dumbness on both sides of the coin.

I think that immigration needs to be re-done from the bottom up. One thing I would insist is language skills. While you wait to become a citizen ONE of your many requirements will be to pass a written and verbal language test before being granted citizenship and all it comes with.

I also think areas that are focused on maintaining the cultural identity of other nations should at the very least not be publicly funded. If you want a Chinatown and want tyo be around your own kind then do it yourself just like I would have to do if I wanted an area of only people who like the same music as I do. I am free to do that but in no way shape or form should I EXPECT the government to fund any of that.

I have MANY MANY more suggestions.

[Syn7]

Yeah most of the women I know have at least one story of being attacked or in serious fear of attack.

Sexual assault is a HUGE problem worldwide.

Also, I have never been one to say it is always wrong to hit a woman. Why? because I don't believe it's always wrong. Now hear me out before you judge. I feel it's wrong to hurt ANYONE who is weaker than you, man woman or child(even animal). But if a woman is hurting you, you gotta do what you gotta do. I watched a guy get boot stomped by 2 girls because he wouldn't even push back, let alone hit back.

Of course it is also wrong to go and injure somebody who is twice your size too. But at least they aren't as vulnerable as people half your size.