Who were Abbott Gee Gin's other disciples besides Hung Hei Gung?

[LaterthanNever]

I ask this because it is listed that he taught other disciples besides HHG.

Hence, does any of the disciples other than HHG have styles that they developed? Or did the other original disciple group play a part in developing Hung Ga?

Thanks,
LTN

[tungmojingjung]

Tong Jin Kan who established Tong Gar Kuen. On one of his past trips to Shaolin Temple, I received a phone call from Grandmaster Chiu Chi Ling, he was explaining to me the memorial to Tong Jin Kan and Tong Gar Kung Fu that was there in the temple. My first Sifu Yuan Chan, taught Buk Sil Lum and Tong Gar Kuen, it was nice to have that validity there in Shaolin concerning one of the true heroes of the revolution during that time.

[TenTigers]

yeah..except that the Southern Temple was built NOT on the grounds of the old temple ruins (for ease of tourist access) and is nothing more than a tourist attraction...
I'm not disregarding the validity of your system, just the validity of the Southern Temple.

[hskwarrior]

yeah..except that the Southern Temple was built NOT on the grounds of the old temple ruins (for ease of tourist access) and is nothing more than a tourist attraction...
I'm not disregarding the validity of your system, just the validity of the Southern Temple.

The location of the southern temple was documented by the Hung Society. I believe it was the Gau Lin Mountain. is the location of the temple you're referring to in the same areas or location?

[TenTigers]

The location of the southern temple was documented by the Hung Society. I believe it was the Gau Lin Mountain. is the location of the temple you're referring to in the same areas or location?
they found what they believed to be the location, and found the ruins, then built it in another area nearby, as it would be more accessable for tourism. If you look at some of the "artifacts" they dug up, they are the same weapons we use today, but have been aged, weathered and antiqued to look old. They are notorious for that-we are being flooded with bogus antique swords, halberds, etc that are actually new.
They do the same with Les Pauls-although I've read some reviews on the counterfiets and they are actually pretty good, once you set them up right and maybe replace some components.

[tungmojingjung]

According to my late Sifu, Tong Jin Kan initially started with his teacher at Mount Song, where as i'm told so did his Master Gee Sim Sum Si, before heading south, thereby in Tong jin Kan's boxing skills one can witness the extended movements or how Sifu used to say Long Bridge and Short Bridge manoeuvres. For example the tiger claw skills of Tong Gar are more akin in motion to Choy Lee Fut via its extension and raking, not so much the extend and contract motions found for example in Hung Gar. Sifu used to also say Tong Jin Kan was with his teacher before Hung Hei Kwun.

[TenTigers]

ok, so the memorial is at the Northern Shaolin Temple on Song Shan, rather than the Southern Temple?
Makes sense...I suppose.
So there are references to Ji Siem at the Northern Temple?

[Brule]

they found what they believed to be the location, and found the ruins, then built it in another area nearby, as it would be more accessable for tourism. If you look at some of the "artifacts" they dug up, they are the same weapons we use today, but have been aged, weathered and antiqued to look old. They are notorious for that-we are being flooded with bogus antique swords, halberds, etc that are actually new.
They do the same with Les Pauls-although I've read some reviews on the counterfiets and they are actually pretty good, once you set them up right and maybe replace some components.

Now that's a stretch, claiming Shaolin as the origin of the Les Pauls.

[David Jamieson]

Now that's a stretch, claiming Shaolin as the origin of the Les Pauls.

No, not at all. Les Paul was a 18th generation shaolin monk and was well versed in making i... ah never mind, I can't pull this off!

D**N you Kellerman!

As an aside, Gee Sin Sim See was a traveller. He was trained at The Shaolin temple and then traveled and shared with various factions who opposed the Qing.

The southern Shaolin temple of now is a made for tourists type of place. It is not original and the one from close by was found in '97 and is STILL unconfirmed in regards to who built it, why etc. iT is a stretch to say it was the southern shaolin temple. Mainly because there is and always has been only ONE shaolin Temple and that is the one at Mount Song in DengFeng where it has been for more than 1500 years.

It was the repeated diaspora of Monks that spread Shaolin Kung Fu around China. It was then morphed and morphed again and again over the last 1500 years into the myriad styles we have today. The commonality between them is the basics. Stances, punches and kicks. The schisms of styles occurs with the advanced materials in each and it should be noted that many monks of varying degrees of skill shared their stuff over a wide area. So, very basics to advanced stuff morphed into the styles we have today with more than a few weird ones and of course plenty of highly questionable styles and ideas about Shaolin have come about since being in the realm of the whole world.

[TenTigers]

Now that's a stretch, claiming Shaolin as the origin of the Les Pauls.
Chasing tone can be likened to chasing skill....Les Paul was known as the original "Tone Chaser," seeking out various woods, pickup configurations, etc., until he developed the first solid body electric guitar (nicknamed, "the log,") which went through many incarnations, refinements and variations, even to this day. He may have died, but his legacy lives on.
Shaolin Boxing has also gone through and continues to go through the same process of constant refinement. The legacy of Shaolin lives on through all of us.

There! I did it!:D

[LaterthanNever]

Thanks all for your interesting responses!

TungMoJingjung..thanks!

All,

May I ask, if we could get back to the original topic? ;)

[Northwind]

My first Sifu Yuan Chan, taught Buk Sil Lum and Tong Gar Kuen

How can I learn more of Yuan Chan?

[tungmojingjung]

Northwind,

My Sifu Yuan Chan, was like many who came from china trying to make a better life for himself and his niece. I came to know him and learn from him due to the working relationship between him and my father. As my father used to help him out in return he started to train myself and two other brothers, my brothers went to basketball and I stayed with gung fu.

Sifu was very low key, he didn't really want to teach a class, as I recall it was myself, my brothers for a time, his niece and three other guys. His northern style was from Jing Mo and right now i don't remember the family line off the top of my head of Tong Gar Kuen, but i'll post it when i get home from work. he particularly favored the Gim (sword) and the Chiang (spear), he often played for us the northern styles skills but was rather reserved when it came to Tong Gar Kuen. In fact I believe he only started teaching me Tong Gar Kuen because he felt it suited me moreso than northern style, in hindsight I still like them both.

I still talk with his niece (Susan Chan) and one of my classmates under him name Fred Lau who lives in Sacramento, California

[Northwind]

Thanks for sharing, TungMo! I'm a BSL guy myself but had not heard of him before, so it's always nice to hear about others' stories and whatnot. Thanks! :)

[Asmo]

yeah..except that the Southern Temple was built NOT on the grounds of the old temple ruins (for ease of tourist access) and is nothing more than a tourist attraction...
I'm not disregarding the validity of your system, just the validity of the Southern Temple.

Which of the three southern siulams you speaking of now? ;)

[Brule]

I ask this because it is listed that he taught other disciples besides HHG.

Hence, does any of the disciples other than HHG have styles that they developed? Or did the other original disciple group play a part in developing Hung Ga?

Thanks,
LTN

I don't know, i always take these things with a grain of salt. I mean there is no way to know who trained with whom and in what method since a lot of this happened generations ago and at the time, things were not recorded and were only passed down by word of mouth.

[doug maverick]

its not even guaranteed that gee shim existed..let alone had other student...hell even hhg was debated at one point or another.

[sanjuro_ronin]

its not even guaranteed that gee shim existed..let alone had other student...hell even hhg was debated at one point or another.

DM has Jik Kiu'd the correct.
Its fine to go over the history of our chosen MA, we just have to realize that the anecdotal information we have is interesting but it is not "historical fact" usually and that just because some stuff is agreed on by the majority, since it came from the same source, that still doesn't make it a fact.
As MA the history of our style can tell us where it came from and why it was developed BUT it can't tell us where to take it or where its; going, that is 100% up to US.
And in THAT regards, we are ALL lineage holders.

[David Jamieson]

its not even guaranteed that gee shim existed..let alone had other student...hell even hhg was debated at one point or another.

I think that has more to do with our ignorance of the Chinese language, it's literature, it's culture of teacher/student hand down of knowledge etc.

We are not as able to find documentation because most of us don't know how to read or look for it and frankly, in a cultural sense, Chinese historians and such don't actively attend martial arts boards to help out.

Having said that, I am not certain it matters so much as there is what there is. There is value in the story as a lesson and as a model of integrity in a man that can be followed.

One could argue against the historical existence of Jesus Christ and be correct but that will not stop a couple of billion people from worshiping him as a god to them.

The monk merely propagated an idea of uprightness through being a full human being in mind and body and driven by intention and purpose. All good stuff!

[hskwarrior]

One could argue against the historical existence of Jesus Christ and be correct but that will not stop a couple of billion people from worshiping him as a god to them.

I wondered about that. Why people pray to jesus who was the son of God? Why not pray directly to God?

Oh well, religion isn't my thing....

[David Jamieson]

I wondered about that. Why people pray to jesus who was the son of God? Why not pray directly to God?

Oh well, religion isn't my thing....

What if I told you that you and most other people were actually tying their shoes incorrectly?

lol.

It's funny because it's true!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAFcV7zuUDA

This changed my experience with dress shoes and those tube laces by the way.

It is an example of how habits can poison truth in a very simple sense.

I'm not religious either. :)

[tungmojingjung]

Hey Frank, I have that answer for you!

The reason they pray like that is because all power was given unto the son on earth, then in that sonship degree he said, I and my father are one, when you see me you see the father. What people don't understand is that, the father who is spirit has the power to put on a coat of flesh and walk around in his creation, you as well could be a father, son and a brother, and each role is played different, meaning as a son you wouldn't act like a father, as a father you wouldn't act like a brother, in the sonship degree he did not strive to be equal with the father, knowing all along he was the father, but because of his purpose in operation he had to manifest himself in the flesh to be the propitiation of mankind sins that he himself perpetuated on mankind himself.

[David Jamieson]

...well, that certainly clears that up!

:p

[hskwarrior]

thanks bro. i figured something like that. I still pray to GOD tho....

[sanjuro_ronin]

I wondered about that. Why people pray to jesus who was the son of God? Why not pray directly to God?

Oh well, religion isn't my thing....

Christ, for a typical Christian ( Trinitarian as opposed to a non-Trinitarian) views Christ as God Incarnate, but only in NATURE and not in Person ( person in the ancient sense of the term not our modern sense).
We pray to Christ because it is in HIS name that God, the Father answers/accepts our prayers ( to honour the Son is to honour the Father).
Christ, who was the very image and nature of God, give Himself for Us and as such, we honour that gift by alloting Christ the most special of places, the right hand of God the Father.
You can most certainly Pray directly to God and The Lords Prayer is direct to The Father.

[hskwarrior]

We pray to Christ because it is in HIS name that God, the Father answers/accepts our prayers ( to honour the Son is to honour the Father).

I think this was the answer i was looking for. thanks bro.

I will leave this subject with my favorite song .......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KU8tnvk81s

[TenTigers]

Jews look at it a bit differently....
(Ring-Ring)
Jesus: "Hello?"
Jew: "Hi, is this Jesus?"
Jesus: "Yeah."
Jew: "Oh okay, put your father on the phone."
Jesus: "Da-a-d, it's for you!"
:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Jews look at it a bit differently....
(Ring-Ring)
Jesus: "Hello?"
Jew: "Hi, is this Jesus?"
Jesus: "Yeah."
Jew: "Oh okay, put your father on the phone."
Jesus: "Da-a-d, it's for you!"
:D

LMAO !!:D
*golf clap*

[David Jamieson]

Jesus seemed like a good bet to get rid of the roman appointed Herod who was not the actual King of the Jews but some governor who was elevated to the position of King by way of Tribute.

With Herod came the Messianic period and there were many other guys like Jesus. Trying to prove they were the saviour of the Jewish people and would restore their kingdom.

Jesus became regarded as the actual "King" because of his bloodline. That's how it works with Jews and their Kings.

If you come from one family, you are always priests, if you come from another, you are royalty, another and you're a fishmonger and so on. Herod and the priests conspired to power, this pizzed off all the regular Jews who saw their traditions and ways getting converted into Roman pseudo- crap and they didn't like that Herod, despite all his buildings and efforts (mostly roman style stuff )anyway.

In the end the Jews were right about Herod being a bad bet as it was under him that Israel or Roman Judea as it had come to be known was destroyed for the last time under the Emperor Vespasian and his co-ruler Titus. they destroyed the second temple of Solomon and took the treasure, enslaved the Jews, dragged em back to Rome and used the loot to build the Coliseum. then they changed the name fo Roman Judea to Palistinea in reference to the Greek fishermen (philistines) who built their cities and villages along the coast and thereby took Israel away in name and in geography.

It wasn't restored until 1948 by David Ben Gurion who technically is the saviour of Israel because he restored it to a country again specifically for the Jewish people.

Boom!