Kung fu may not be about fighting anymore but neither is mma

[SavvySavage]

After watching Carlos Condit run away from Nick Diaz for 5 rounds. Thats what spawned this post. In mma matches you don't have to actually go for the kill. All you have to do is counter strike well and avoid takedowns. GSP hasn't finished a fight in ages. Machida is known for running away.


My point is that even though Kung fu isn't about fighting anymore neither is mma. Mma matches are about winning.

[Yao Sing]

Good point. I alluded to the fact that they "game the system" (take advantage of the rules) just to win. I'm not fond of the strategy Condit used but he isn't the only one. Josh Koschek did the same to Kenny Florian and Machida fights like that all the time.

Can't blame him for not wanting to let Nick "Cry Baby" Diaz do his thing. The only thing that will control that is the booing of the crowd. If the crowd doesn't approve then your fight future is over. It is entertainment after all. Although Nick "Sore Loser" Diaz cancelled his own career because he couldn't deal with his failure to get his hands on his opponent.

[SavvySavage]

Good point. I alluded to the fact that they "game the system" (take advantage of the rules) just to win. I'm not fond of the strategy Condit used but he isn't the only one. Josh Koschek did the same to Kenny Florian and Machida fights like that all the time.

Can't blame him for not wanting to let Nick "Cry Baby" Diaz do his thing. The only thing that will control that is the booing of the crowd. If the crowd doesn't approve then your fight future is over. It is entertainment after all. Although Nick "Sore Loser" Diaz cancelled his own career because he couldn't deal with his failure to get his hands on his opponent.

He's may be a sore loser but he has a point. How does a guy who runs away the whole time, not do any real damage, and win? Some people would call it strategy. I call it not fighting. Condit and GSP will just be circling each other through their whole match. Maybe someone will get lucky. When GSP was fighting Jake Shields he looked at the timer and saw there was only a few seconds left and took him down. He did this each round to assure he was ahead on points. Nick Diaz is right. They come for their paychecks and not to actually fight.

Ray, you can't defend the current trend of the UFC. They are at the top of their game being blackbelts in bjj, erc, but they don't really try to hurt each other.
If forms are mental maturbation as you call it then going into a cage to try to win on points is martial masturbation.

[doug maverick]

the kf forum is kind of a joke...you guys literally have the same freaking conversation..100 million times..i mean what more can be said on the subject of mma v. tma...seriously...what more? i mean its just absurd at this point...there are maybe 1000 threads on here on this exact same subject and thats just the last freaking year. lets move on to something else.

[Chadderz]

Yeah, this is a kung fu forum. You guys need to get over MMA. Yes it's practical fighting, no it's not the be-all-end-all of fighting.


If you want to female dog (didn't know it was a swear word?) about MMA, post in the MMA section, that's where I'll be ;p

[SPJ]

After watching Carlos Condit run away from Nick Diaz for 5 rounds. Thats what spawned this post. In mma matches you don't have to actually go for the kill. All you have to do is counter strike well and avoid takedowns. GSP hasn't finished a fight in ages. Machida is known for running away.


My point is that even though Kung fu isn't about fighting anymore neither is mma. Mma matches are about winning.

running away is to engage with disengagement

it is part of fighting

you may always out run your opponent in the ring or on the street

we advance and engage. we also retreat to fight another day.

1. Afrika Korp retreated fast after El Alamein during WWII

2. Operation Barbalosa ended with fast retreat after Kursk

3. Chinese Communists PLA running around all over Shan Dong

Nationalist 250,000 men so tired of chasing around 100,000 men PLA

General Su Yu even encircled 10,000 men tiger division with his 100,000 men and destroyed the best nationalist division

running around is a big part of fighting

---

:)

[SavvySavage]

The forum and thread are so pathetic that you both took the time to read and respond. I bet you're reading right now. Nice job.

[Pork Chop]

So Condit hit Diaz without getting hit...
Condit frustrated Diaz to the point of wanting to give up fighting altogether...
Isn't that the goal of martial arts?
Especially the buddhist ones?

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M6lya-cL58

running around

Nationalist used the best division as the bait or staying lure

it did attract 100,000 men to take the bait

however, Nationalist reinforcement did not reach in time

bait got eaten.

---

[Ray Pina]

armchair quarterbacking.

Easy to have a "go forward and get 'em" attitude from behind the keyboard.

[Ray Pina]

Amazing how hard TCMA will go to legitimize themselves..... now form players are equal to fighters competing at the highest level.:)


Goes to show you, without the actual experience of physical confrontation, need to prove oneself, be it real sparring, rolling and competition, martial artists lack the real honor and humility that comes with training.

Empty training obviously produces cynicism. The inability to relate to the glories of victory, agonies of defeat and the mutual respect held between participants. For mutual participation in a tough deed that few sign up for, many like to hang on coat tails off.

[Peaceful Orchid]

After watching Carlos Condit run away from Nick Diaz for 5 rounds. Thats what spawned this post. In mma matches you don't have to actually go for the kill. All you have to do is counter strike well and avoid takedowns. GSP hasn't finished a fight in ages. Machida is known for running away.


My point is that even though Kung fu isn't about fighting anymore neither is mma. Mma matches are about winning.

It's called counter-fighting and it is all about fighting and always has been.

[Peaceful Orchid]

How does a guy who runs away the whole time, not do any real damage, and win? Some people would call it strategy. I call it not fighting. .

This is what the British said when they got their butts handed to them in the American Revolution.

[David Jamieson]

Amazing how hard TCMA will go to legitimize themselves..... now form players are equal to fighters competing at the highest level.:)


Goes to show you, without the actual experience of physical confrontation, need to prove oneself, be it real sparring, rolling and competition, martial artists lack the real honor and humility that comes with training.

Empty training obviously produces cynicism. The inability to relate to the glories of victory, agonies of defeat and the mutual respect held between participants. For mutual participation in a tough deed that few sign up for, many like to hang on coat tails off.

Look who's talking! lol.

what's your rank in the UFC? How many over 14 year olds have you taken out for the big prize?

empty training produces chubby folk who lie around on the beach smoking weed and thinking they had some kind of glory days as a semi-pro fighter. :p

[Peaceful Orchid]

Look who's talking! lol.

what's your rank in the UFC? How many over 14 year olds have you taken out for the big prize?

empty training produces chubby folk who lie around on the beach smoking weed and thinking they had some kind of glory days as a semi-pro fighter. :p

What it gives him is the perspective to appreciate skilled fighters and not think they are simply guys "fighting in a ring in bike tights with rules " like people who have never done it do.

[David Jamieson]

What it gives him is the perspective to appreciate skilled fighters and not think they are simply guys "fighting in a ring in bike tights with rules " like people who have never done it do.

wait...are you saying that punching out what amounts to kids, ambushing accommodating people and then losing badly in the ring 1 time maybe twice on an amateur undercard = perspective?

:rolleyes: ok, sure, cool story bro. lol

[Peaceful Orchid]

wait...are you saying that punching out what amounts to kids, ambushing accommodating people and then losing badly in the ring 1 time maybe twice on an amateur undercard = perspective?

:rolleyes: ok, sure, cool story bro. lol

He went out there and mixed it up with a bunch of different guys in a variety of different settings and he has actual evidence for that.

Gives him better perspective than the guys who "bounced" and then think that beating up drunks with the other bouncers is somehow more representative of fighting skill than "sport fighting in bike tights with rules".

[Jimbo]

After watching Carlos Condit run away from Nick Diaz for 5 rounds. Thats what spawned this post. In mma matches you don't have to actually go for the kill. All you have to do is counter strike well and avoid takedowns. GSP hasn't finished a fight in ages. Machida is known for running away.


My point is that even though Kung fu isn't about fighting anymore neither is mma. Mma matches are about winning.

Standing in front of someone and trading punches back and forth is not necessarily 'better' fighting than evasion/countering. GSP and Machida can and have finished fights...Machida is still the only man to have beaten Rashad Evans...and by K.O. They're fighting equally-trained fighters, so to blindly go in for the kill on an opponent who's alert and ready would be foolish. Avoiding damage (as much as possible) and inflicting it on your opponent is not simply running away. I can guarantee against a hurt or lesser opponent, Machida will finish the fight very quickly.

[David Jamieson]

He went out there and mixed it up with a bunch of different guys in a variety of different settings and he has actual evidence for that.

Gives him better perspective than the guys who "bounced" and then think that beating up drunks with the other bouncers is somehow more representative of fighting skill than "sport fighting in bike tights with rules".

uh...not sure what you're talking about here, but if it's Ray, let me be the first to correct you.

ray got kicked out of David Bond Chan's Kung Fu school for reasons he blames on everyone else but himself.

he then got angry at kung fu, invited people to have some friendly cross hands and then ramped up to 100% and bullied his way through as many as he could.

then he moved away and decided he was a pro surfer. I believe at some point he entered a nhb type event by his own telling and got his ass handed to him.

then he decided he'd train some kids by beating on them and couldn't figure out why this is not a good teaching model.

this is all on video and presented by Ray for every one here to look at and go "wtf is up with this PIna character".

Then he returns here and tries to deride practices that have a wide variety of avenues in some attempt at pounding his chest to get as many pats on the back as he can.

Then he thought Everlast was a satanic organization and it was then that I deduced that Ray is probably a mild schizophrenic and definitely has a bi-polar disorder with his personality.

Then he asks to be banned. But he doesn't followup and here he still is...

But hey, if you think that's better than an actual course of training towards a better self, you go ahead and think that. I'm not gonna stop you.

But I will stop Ray from posting his bowel dumps here in the forum and his drum banging. If he can't contribute something even mildly thought provoking and instead goes for the poo poo head lines all the time, then that crap will be contested, removed , whatever.

what? you never told a kid to be quiet before? lol

ask yourself this, would you train with that kind of a loose cannon?


me neither.

[Ray Pina]

wait...are you saying that punching out what amounts to kids, ambushing accommodating people and then losing badly in the ring 1 time maybe twice on an amateur undercard = perspective?


Does this look like a 14-year old boy to you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq9fKZdboos

That's the last fight of mine someone filmed.

I've been in the ring competitively 5 times. In the cage competitively 5 times.


Don't use words to knock others. Use action to raise yourself up.

Have dignity and honor.

[Ray Pina]

ray got kicked out of David Bond Chan's Kung Fu school for reasons he blames on everyone else but himself.



I moved to Puerto Rico.

I've been back to the school on visits since.


You are not qualified to write my biography. Work on your own skills, go enter some fights, then report back first hand..... otherwise get off my jock. Stop sweating me for having the balls to do what you don't.

[Ray Pina]

When I lost.... I was training only TCMA.

Now, I win and lose. Now I train BJJ, boxing and kick boxing.

This is not about me. This is about the inability of you Kung Fu folks to compete.

Instead of attacking me, you should self reflect honestly.... the why is obvious. The why no one changes to train correctly is also obvious: no b@lls.

[David Jamieson]

yap yap yap.

ray, with every barb you throw, you make it about you.

grow up and learn how humans communicate.

You are so full of it, you are beyond laughing stock material.

Your whining threads, your mewling idiotic rants.

whatever man, go circle jerk elsewhere if you don't like it.

I don't practice being a braggart, but I like taking shots at them online because they are weak. Weak minded and weak souled and they have NO place whatsoever dumping their crap into an area that may have new flowers ready to bloom.

If you don't understand what Kung FU is, that's fine. This is not an mma forum or a boxers forum and you offer nothing to bring harmony. You're basically a jerk and have written yourself out as one.

To be honest, I am not even sure if that is you in that film, in fact, I"m gonna say that if that is august 1 2011 then it ISN'T you because that guy is not the same fat guy with the axl rose head band that was beating up on the kids in the parking lot a few short months ago.

anyway, fair warning, keep up throwing you hate rants and Ill keep deleting them the same way I flush similar substance in the morning. GO puff your own tool elsewhere fool.