crazy bag

[uki]

Dude, step away from the heavy bag, get a floor to ceiling ball and/or a guy who knows what he’s doing with a set of pads.

so i followed this bit of advice... i have had mine now for about 5 days... pointers??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl1TKRJImNk&feature=youtu.be

[MasterKiller]

pointers??

Hit it like a man and stop with the f@ggy wrist slaps.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Uki,

One thing you have going is good eye hand coordination and "connection" with the bag. In Pai Lum our serpent techniques are similiar to the stance you are keeping, in that the feet are stationary and the upper torso and body move from side to side to counter and evade than attack.

It seems to me this is what you are going for, however, one problem with this is most opponents are not going to stay stationary, at least if they are any good, so incorporating good foot work and movement into your bag training is essential because the serpent style of evasion can work but not at all times, particulary on an opponent who moves and uses angles well.

In other words, move more often, move your body, move your head, just move man!:D

It also would benefit you to add more power strikes to this. Yes, the double end bag is for developing speed and timing, but power will come through this as well when your technique improves. Hope that helps.

Here is a clip of me doing double end bag work, the head movement, parrying, footwork, and overall movement are what I think would help you the most:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57rVCztYiAo&feature=bf_next&list=UUwVQdvTSCvWTxzPNdacy4aw&lf=plcp

[uki]

yo that vid was crooked man. :p

[Iron_Eagle_76]

yo that vid was crooked man. :p

What can I say, I'm a crooked mofo!!:p

[uki]

what's the difference between wearing gloves and not, while practicing on this bag?

[Ray Pina]

Not bad for new to the ceiling to floor bag.

Watch your straight left.... it's dropping on the follow through. Someone will rush in on that.

Great coordination.

Try a good lead straight followed by a cross, pivot step. Lead hook.... good combo.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

what's the difference between wearing gloves and not, while practicing on this bag?

Besides the obvious inability to do open hand strikes, if you train with boxing gloves it will make you better with boxing gloves, for your speed and timing mostly. Doing it bare hand is not bad, and you should actually do both from time to time, I know I do, it mostly depends on your goals and what you are trying to improve upon.

One other thing Uki, it is a good idea to tuck your chin, and in most of your work I see you with the head up and chin exposed. Give a slight tuck to the chin to protect the button, and it also protects the throat area from all the knifehands and adam's apple ripping tiger claws from the Kung Fu killas!!!

[Ray Pina]

Here is a clip of me doing double end bag work, the head movement, parrying, footwork, and overall movement are what I think would help you the most:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57rVCztYiAo&feature=bf_next&list=UUwVQdvTSCvWTxzPNdacy4aw&lf=plcp


Nice movement! Nice fluid, powerful punching.

[Ray Pina]

... the boxing gloves also add weight. Adds a level of shoulder conditioning into the mix. Improves accuracy slightly too.

[uki]

Hit it like a man and stop with the f@ggy wrist slaps.remind me to *****slap you we ever meet. :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Never been a fan of the DBL end bag, nor the speed bag for that matter, but had to do it when I was boxing.
In one word: MOVE
The DBL end bag teaches you hand/eye coordination BUT you have to move around it and evade and such.
You are not fighting it nor are you actually moving and hitting the same way as you would in a fight BUt you are developing some good coordination and timing and footwork.
It also breaks the monotony of heavy bag work.

[Pork Chop]

uki - ray had some good advice.


... the boxing gloves also add weight. Adds a level of shoulder conditioning into the mix. Improves accuracy slightly too.

I probably wouldn't go as high as 16oz; and definitely no larger than 16oz though.
The larger the glove size the more sloppy the work.
I'm not a fan of large gloves on the focus mitts either.


Iron_Eagle_76's video was pretty good; my only advice to him would be to work on keeping up the hand of the side he's ducking to (in case of a feint followed by a hook or kicks).


Sanjuro_ronin - I hate speed bag, but love the double end (unless it's hung too tightly). I find double end bag & shadow boxing to be the 2 most effective solo training drills to help with sparring - they have the most carry over for me.

[sanjuro_ronin]

uki - ray had some good advice.



I probably wouldn't go as high as 16oz; and definitely no larger than 16oz though.
The larger the glove size the more sloppy the work.
I'm not a fan of large gloves on the focus mitts either.


Iron_Eagle_76's video was pretty good; my only advice to him would be to work on keeping up the hand of the side he's ducking to (in case of a feint followed by a hook or kicks).


Sanjuro_ronin - I hate speed bag, but love the double end (unless it's hung too tightly). I find double end bag & shadow boxing to be the 2 most effective solo training drills to help with sparring - they have the most carry over for me.

Go advice there.
Yeah, to me it's just a personal thing, I don't like to be hold back that much.

[Pork Chop]

Go advice there.
Yeah, to me it's just a personal thing, I don't like to be hold back that much.

oh, that's easy - get a peanut style double end bag and hang it slightly loose.
that way you can blast it and give it a lot of swing.
needs to be tight enough that you can still do combos, but loose enough to have some swing.
the double end bags i've seen in roy jones jr & manny pacquiao clips have been hung WAY too tight.

[sanjuro_ronin]

oh, that's easy - get a peanut style double end bag and hang it slightly loose.
that way you can blast it and give it a lot of swing.
needs to be tight enough that you can still do combos, but loose enough to have some swing.
the double end bags i've seen in roy jones jr & manny pacquiao clips have been hung WAY too tight.

Hmmm, maybe that was it, they could have been too tight.
The peanut is the double dblend bag right?
How do you know when it's too tight?

[Pork Chop]

Hmmm, maybe that was it, they could have been too tight.
The peanut is the double dblend bag right?
How do you know when it's too tight?

http://store.titleboxing.com/2indoubendba.html
The nice thing about the peanut bag is that it's a bit more substantial when you hit it.

Some of this is personal preference, but when I'm looking at it, I judge how far the bag swings out after I punch it before it swings back at me, and the speed of the swing.
If you land a nice cross, it should swing out a bit before coming back.
You should still be able to string combos together, so not too much slack.
A lot of double end bags are hung so tightly that they "stick" to your punches - don't swing out at all before they're coming back.
The size of the glove can affect the "sticking" problem too; larger gloves can "stick" more.
Needs to have enough balance between swing & return that you can fire off a combo at a good rhythm and still hit the bag.

In the old days, heavy bags were lighter and they swung more.
Watch some of the old Sugar Ray Robinson training highlights.
The swinging helped fighters judge distances & hit moving targets better.
They could also use the swing of the bag for defense.
Everybody's on this super heavy heavybag kick these days because they think it'll make 'em hit like Marciano (who supposedly had a 300lb heavybag).
Peanut double end bag is kind of like a throw back to this idea.

[David Jamieson]

use that thing for dodge stepping as well.

[Pork Chop]

use that thing for dodge stepping as well.

i use it for all kinds of defense.
the nice thing about hanging it with a bit of swing is that it opens up more opportunities for side stepping & creating angles.

[sanjuro_ronin]

http://store.titleboxing.com/2indoubendba.html
The nice thing about the peanut bag is that it's a bit more substantial when you hit it.

Some of this is personal preference, but when I'm looking at it, I judge how far the bag swings out after I punch it before it swings back at me, and the speed of the swing.
If you land a nice cross, it should swing out a bit before coming back.
You should still be able to string combos together, so not too much slack.
A lot of double end bags are hung so tightly that they "stick" to your punches - don't swing out at all before they're coming back.
The size of the glove can affect the "sticking" problem too; larger gloves can "stick" more.
Needs to have enough balance between swing & return that you can fire off a combo at a good rhythm and still hit the bag.

In the old days, heavy bags were lighter and they swung more.
Watch some of the old Sugar Ray Robinson training highlights.
The swinging helped fighters judge distances & hit moving targets better.
They could also use the swing of the bag for defense.
Everybody's on this super heavy heavybag kick these days because they think it'll make 'em hit like Marciano (who supposedly had a 300lb heavybag).
Peanut double end bag is kind of like a throw back to this idea.

Marcianos was a 200lbs sandbag and he only used that one fro hooks and body shots.
Rule of thumb is a 100lbs for those under 200lbs and the heavier ones for those over 200lbs.
I may look into this.
Thanks bro.

[Pork Chop]

Marcianos was a 200lbs sandbag and he only used that one fro hooks and body shots.
Rule of thumb is a 100lbs for those under 200lbs and the heavier ones for those over 200lbs.
I may look into this.
Thanks bro.

There's reality and urban legend.
They still say 300 in a bunch of boxing gyms.
Kind of relieved that it wasn't that big and that he didn't use it all the time.
Smaller guys tend to have much better skill than the bigger guys.
So I'm not sure the bigger bags are all that useful.

I also think power at 185lbs is probably enough to hurt anybody.
Marciano & Dempsey weighed in the 180s and 190s - some of their opponents were mid 200s.
Henderson KOed Fedor and Silva - both of whom were able to go to decision against the likes of CroCop and Mark Hunt.
Mark Hunt's first KO was against Manhoef, a guy who can make 185.
Sorry, had another "well you gotta suck weight" convo with my coach last night and this topic's back in my head.
I agree that guys over 6'4 have almost an unfair advantage, especially with knees.

In Baltimore we had this 6'7" former basketball player talking all this mess about how he was going to be a killer in boxing. He was a pretty lean heavy, but still a good 250, and was pretty strong in the weight room. The coaches all bought into it. My old sparring partner, who hit hard, but wasn't more than 5'9", 160lbs at the time, knocked that guy senseless. It was a smoker with an audience and the heavy's opponent was a no show, so my friend jumped in and knocked the guy out. He never came back.

We got a guy at my gym now who's 6'6", self proclaimed street fighter. He's apparently a pr!ck to work with. After last night's convo, his past history of hurting partners, and my coach bragging how the guy was undefeated in streetfights since starting muay thai; I may have to Zulu (http://youtu.be/jpymdcnk3E0) him.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There's reality and urban legend.
They still say 300 in a bunch of boxing gyms.
Kind of relieved that it wasn't that big and that he didn't use it all the time.
Smaller guys tend to have much better skill than the bigger guys.
So I'm not sure the bigger bags are all that useful.

I also think power at 185lbs is probably enough to hurt anybody.
Marciano & Dempsey weighed in the 180s and 190s - some of their opponents were mid 200s.
Henderson KOed Fedor and Silva - both of whom were able to go to decision against the likes of CroCop and Mark Hunt.
Mark Hunt's first KO was against Manhoef, a guy who can make 185.
Sorry, had another "well you gotta suck weight" convo with my coach last night and this topic's back in my head.
I agree that guys over 6'4 have almost an unfair advantage, especially with knees.

In Baltimore we had this 6'7" former basketball player talking all this mess about how he was going to be a killer in boxing. He was a pretty lean heavy, but still a good 250, and was pretty strong in the weight room. The coaches all bought into it. My old sparring partner, who hit hard, but wasn't more than 5'9", 160lbs at the time, knocked that guy senseless. It was a smoker with an audience and the heavy's opponent was a no show, so my friend jumped in and knocked the guy out. He never came back.

We got a guy at my gym now who's 6'6", self proclaimed street fighter. He's apparently a pr!ck to work with. After last night's convo, his past history of hurting partners, and my coach bragging how the guy was undefeated in streetfights since starting muay thai; I may have to Zulu (http://youtu.be/jpymdcnk3E0) him.

Some guys have natural heavy hands, regardless of their weight.
But the big guys drop some serious bombs, if not by impact force buy the sheer "weight" of their punches.
One thing you will see is smaller guys that routinely fight bigger guys not really being as intimidated and bigger guys being surprised that a "little guy" can hit so freaking hard.
Reach advantage can be ( and usually is) more of an advantage than just weight.

[Pork Chop]

Reach advantage can be ( and usually is) more of an advantage than just weight.

There's no way to get away from reach though.
There are guys that are 6'5 that fight at 170.
I think the best thing to do is use what you got and try to prepare the best you can against who you're likely to face.

Thing about the big guys is that they often move slower so you can see their punches coming, and they don't react as quick on defense - so a quicker guy can load up on a shot a LOT more.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There's no way to get away from reach though.
There are guys that are 6'5 that fight at 170.
I think the best thing to do is use what you got and try to prepare the best you can against who you're likely to face.

Thing about the big guys is that they often move slower so you can see their punches coming, and they don't react as quick on defense - so a quicker guy can load up on a shot a LOT more.

One hopes anyways, lol !

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I would also add that reach in boxing is very difficult to get around, but in kickboxing can be somewhat nullified by having better kicks than your opponent.

For example, at 5'9" I am not a tall guy although I have pretty long arms and legs, but fighting someone who is say 6'2" is going to have me in the reach department. That being said, if he is a strong boxer but not a strong kicker, my kicks being better can nullify his boxing even though the reach is to his advantage.

[sanjuro_ronin]

At 5-6 I am a short and stubby little ****er so I got move in and hurt them bad, quick and easy, then get a hold of them and bite their legs off !
Maybe do a jumping kick to their ankle for good measure !
:D

[Pork Chop]

I would also add that reach in boxing is very difficult to get around, but in kickboxing can be somewhat nullified by having better kicks than your opponent.


Yeah, but knees can nullify a lot of that.
...and that's how I got my ribs broken twice in 2009 kids...
6'4" guy, real lean, lots of experience, with really, really powerful knees.

6'6" guy is just big and wild.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yeah, but knees can nullify a lot of that.
...and that's how I got my ribs broken twice in 2009 kids...
6'4" guy, real lean, lots of experience, with really, really powerful knees.

6'6" guy is just big and wild.

Really bony knees too I bit.
:mad:

[Pork Chop]

Really bony knees too I bit.
:mad:

Yep. But we're also really good friends. His name is Sam.
When I say "real lean", i mean I saw the guy in the range of about 195 to 220.
His last sanction amateur fight was against a big, football player-looking guy (probably around 6'3 240) and Sam absolutely destroyed the guy.

EDIT: my coach says Sam's 6'5; I usually go with 6'4 to be conservative.

[Shaolin]

Hit it like a man and stop with the f@ggy wrist slaps.

I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to hurt his feelings.

[uki]

I was thinking the same thing but didn't want to hurt his feelings.sweet jesus... i just got the thing - actually it was a double double end bag(peanut bag)... i bought it so i could get two bags for the price of one and i intend to hang the other one nearby within range of the other so i can use two at once to further hone my co-ordination... didn't get them for developing power. :)