What makes Kung fu, Kung Fu

[sanjuro_ronin]

Last weekend I had some friends over and family.
My brother-in-law who is into MMA ( watching not training) and a freind were debating MA and asked me what is the difference between the various styles and I gave a quick and politically correct summary.
But then the BIL asked what makes kung fu, kung fu?
I explained some of the technical uniqueness of kung fu, comapred the forms with karate and TKD but as I was doing so I realized that is NOT what makes kung fu, kung fu.
Many other systems have forms like kung fu, many other systems share the techniques, many others share the principles and many others share the "look and feel" of kung fu.
So I contemplated my navel ( as I do in situations like this) and realized that, for ME, what makes kung fu, kung fu is:
The Gungs.

And you?

[MightyB]

The biggest difference I see isn't the technique's, it's in how they're executed. For example, Karate has a broken, almost staccato rhythm where a person strikes you, you block, then you strike - basically it's like watching two separate techniques. In Kung Fu, ideally there's no break in the flow, the strike and riposte are simultaneous - it's one technique.

[Brule]

To me, it's the delivery system. How to use your weapons. To use the least amount of effort to accomplish the goal. Granted i haven't studied other systems in depth, but that is what drew me to kung fu.

[ShaolinDan]

Kung Fu (as a fighting art, not a concept of achievement) is from China. :D

Really though, there are too many styles of kung fu to make any kind of universal generalization like that. what makes Japanese Martial Arts, JMA?

Integration of ranges, beauty of form, variety of weapons, integration of hard/soft, might all help distinguish KF, but there are exceptions to all of them.

[David Jamieson]

Kung Fu- The TCMA fighting limb of it isn't special or any different from any other martial art except that it doesn't really include much in the way of wrestling or ground work.

But what separates it and makes Kung Fu unique?

The Kung Fu I immerse in is Shaolin in origin.
It contains a complete system for transforming a human into a place of health and mental fitness, it allows for study of ancient and classical weapons, it includes bodywork and meditation and it has it all in one package without going elsewhere.

It is a fairly comprehensive system of personal transformation and development beyond a way of fighting etc, but certainly inclusive to the idea of defending oneself in the circumstance where violence may rear up at you.

It also includes healing, both physically and in dealing with emotional/intuitive issues that you may carry. It helps to increase mental toughness through overcoming perceived physical difficulties and getting over hills that might be perceived as insurmountable at first, but with effort and support, these things are done and the mind becomes better for it.

You can cut as much off of it as you like and only take what you want. That's up to anyone. I like to keep finding the things that were there in the sense of the origin.

It has a lot that cannot be found elsewhere in martial arts.

[TenTigers]

The biggest difference I see isn't the technique's, it's in how they're executed. For example, Karate has a broken, almost staccato rhythm where a person strikes you, you block, then you strike - basically it's like watching two separate techniques. In Kung Fu, ideally there's no break in the flow, the strike and riposte are simultaneous - it's one technique.
actually, karate has this as well...if done right.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There isn't a right or wrong answer on this, its really a personal thing.
I choose the gungs because I have seen the same things in other systems that I have seen in kung fu ( technique and principle wise).

[TenTigers]

one of the biggest differences I see is the fact that Gung-Fu has many different types of ging, and many ways to develop and use it. Hard, soft, inch, whipping, etc.
These energies take a long time to develop, and a much longer time to apply.
For some, the end does not justify the means. For others, it is the journey.

[sanjuro_ronin]

one of the biggest differences I see is the fact that Gung-Fu has many different types of ging, and many ways to develop and use it. Hard, soft, inch, whipping, etc.
These energies take a long time to develop, and a much longer time to apply.
For some, the end does not justify the means. For others, it is the journey.

I have noticed that other systems may develop one or two types of jings but the variety we have in kung fu is uniquely ours.

[Lucas]

Its the wushu chicks. :D

[MasterKiller]

It's all Kung Fu, even when it isn't.

[TenTigers]

It's all Kung Fu, even when it isn't.
yeah, and a lot isn't Kung-Fu, even when it is...:D

[hskwarrior]

http://www.information-security-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/kung-fu.png

[SavvySavage]

Kung Fu- The TCMA fighting limb of it isn't special or any different from any other martial art except that it doesn't really include much in the way of wrestling or ground work.

But what separates it and makes Kung Fu unique?

The Kung Fu I immerse in is Shaolin in origin.
It contains a complete system for transforming a human into a place of health and mental fitness, it allows for study of ancient and classical weapons, it includes bodywork and meditation and it has it all in one package without going elsewhere.

It is a fairly comprehensive system of personal transformation and development beyond a way of fighting etc, but certainly inclusive to the idea of defending oneself in the circumstance where violence may rear up at you.

It also includes healing, both physically and in dealing with emotional/intuitive issues that you may carry. It helps to increase mental toughness through overcoming perceived physical difficulties and getting over hills that might be perceived as insurmountable at first, but with effort and support, these things are done and the mind becomes better for it.

You can cut as much off of it as you like and only take what you want. That's up to anyone. I like to keep finding the things that were there in the sense of the origin.

It has a lot that cannot be found elsewhere in martial arts.


Shuai Jiao predates all Kung fu styles to the point where every system can claim chin na and throwing contained in its forms.

Not everyone gravitates toward the Shuai jiao aspects but Shuai jiao as an art predates Kung fu styles. It could be argued that wrestling is the most natural human way of fighting. The technical skill involved is bill until that big brute, way back when, wrestled against an equally big brute or bigger. Then he was like, "how does big brute A beat big brute B?".

And then he got his abucis out and burned incense to the gods and ancestors to find clues.

For me Kung fu is a complete system of physical, an maybe mental, development. There is nei gong(soft) and wai gong(hard) aspects which blend and help each other.

Soft aspects: Nei gong- joint exercises to make nimble the body and mind with it. I include qi gong in this. Chi sau, push hands, two man form.
Hard aspects: Wai gong- lifting weights, sparring(hard, medium power), etc. The nei gong exercises may be warm up, cool down, joint mobility, etc. but they are systematic working out each joint and muscle and he body as a whole.


It's much easier to focus on the yin(soft) aspects because they are more gentle on the body and you don't get your darn fingers jammed.

[SIFU RON]

Often overlooked is the health benefits of Kung Fu.

For years the medical profession has studied Tai Chi and understands the benefits of exercising for health, especially for the older folks and disabled people.

Kung Fu for health is excellent.

As far as self defense goes Traditional Chinese Kung Fu is by far ( in my opinion )the best however all Martail Arts are very good at self-defense.

Wu Shu is outstanding, it is very physically demanding, Wu Shu performers are in excellent physcial condition.

On the flip side is MMA, these fighters are also in excellent physical condition.


However Tai Chi / Kung Fu for health is an exculsive in Martail Arts.

[Drake]

It's like ice cream.

Some like vanilla.

Some like chocolate.

Some like butter pecan.

Some like mint chocolate chip.

Some like strawberry.

Some like Ben and Jerry's.

Some like gelato.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Kung Fu is the hard work one puts into the system of techniques they have learned, and the mental and physical benefits they attained from the said practice.

[dirtyrat]

in terms of usage, i'm sure most here if not all have read widely respected author, Adam Hsu's book The sword-polisher's record. there's a chapter where he tries to describe kung fu and it's usage....

[David Jamieson]

in terms of usage, i'm sure most here if not all have read widely respected author, Adam Hsu's book The sword-polisher's record. there's a chapter where he tries to describe kung fu and it's usage....

I wouldn't be so sure of that.
Also, I wouldn't be so sure that everyone into Kung Fu takes Adam's words as gospel.

Many don't like his politics, his overt Taiwan favouring and his veiled racism towards non-chinese in that book.

I've read it. I respect his Kung Fu skills.
I look at it (SPR book) through somewhat cynical eyes.

No one man has the low down on Kung Fu.

But a bunch of us together do! Even the silly stuff!

[dirtyrat]

Many don't like his politics, his overt Taiwan favouring and his veiled racism towards non-chinese in that book.

I've read it. I respect his Kung Fu skills.
I look at it (SPR book) through somewhat cynical eyes.



really? i didn't get any of that 'veiled racism' when i read it. could you point out some passages while i try to dig that book out of my closet.

[David Jamieson]

really? i didn't get any of that 'veiled racism' when i read it. could you point out some passages while i try to dig that book out of my closet.

yep I can. But I don't have the book with me at the moment.
I'll peek and shoot some selections that are suspect in spirit.

[dirtyrat]

yep I can. But I don't have the book with me at the moment.

I'll peek and shoot some selections that are suspect in spirit.

much appreciated! always good to get new perspective on things.:D

[RenDaHai]

I think what makes KungFu so 'Kung Fu' is the way it is so interlinked with the rest of chinese culture.

Talk about 5 element theory, qi gong, chinese medicine, chinese calligeraphy, all contain the same concepts in kung fu.

The 5 elements work in kung fu, the direction of calligraphic strokes work in martial arts, the theory of chinese medicine works in kung fu, etc etc. All the theory and strategy from Sun Tzu on all seem to be in agreement in kung fu and all are applied.

I know to some extent this is true for other cultures and their martial arts but it does profoundly so in kung fu. This is what gives Kung fu its flavour.


Using the terminology correctly all 'Great Achievement of Skill' is Kung Fu (Gong Fu).

[ginosifu]

I think that what makes "Kung Fu" - KUNG FU is the theorys and principles. Many systems have that same or similar techniques, but in the end.... How you set them up, How you apply them, what types of energy or jing you use etc.

Fighting is fighting no matter where you go. How you get there makes the deifference.

ginosifu

[Gru Bianca]

I was about to say all the cultural references in it (from phylosophy to medicine) but actually it wouldn't be correct as also Indian martial arts do share the same characteristic so I'll have to go with Sanjuro and Ten Tiger on the different gong meant at developping different jing.
Pretty cool things if you ask me:D

[Jimbo]

I wouldn't be so sure of that.
Also, I wouldn't be so sure that everyone into Kung Fu takes Adam's words as gospel.

Many don't like his politics, his overt Taiwan favouring and his veiled racism towards non-chinese in that book.

I've read it. I respect his Kung Fu skills.
I look at it (SPR book) through somewhat cynical eyes.

No one man has the low down on Kung Fu.

But a bunch of us together do! Even the silly stuff!

I never sensed anything racist in Hsu's writings, although I am aware that in regards to kung fu, he is very sino-centric, i.e., it must be done in just such a way; no non-Chinese exercises or influences can be permitted, or else one's kung fu becomes 'polluted,' etc. And I don't see any particular Taiwan favoring, other than the fact he grew up/learned his kung fu there, so obviously his biggest influences come from there.

I do agree that no one man can lay claim to knowing it all about kung fu, including Adam Hsu. I also respect him as a practitioner, but I do not agree with everything he says.

FWIW, he's come out with another book in recent years, Lone Sword Against the Cold, Cold Sky. He writes a lot more about his travels/experiences in mainland China.

[Dragonzbane76]

The ability to take something, and through hard work, make it work for that person.

[Scott R. Brown]

Kung Fu is just a phrase used to indicate/mean different things at different times according to changing contexts. As with all contrived indicators (made up words), it is both meaningless and meaningful according to the purpose of the one using it and the inclination of the person hearing/reading it, which are often two different meanings.

It would be beneficial to not even use the term at all!


Shuai Jiao predates all Kung fu styles to the point where every system can claim chin na and throwing contained in its forms.

Just for general information, "go-ti" predates Shuai Jiao!;)

[Jimbo]

I never sensed anything racist in Hsu's writings, although I am aware that in regards to kung fu, he is very sino-centric, i.e., it must be done in just such a way; no non-Chinese exercises or influences can be permitted, or else one's kung fu becomes 'polluted,' etc. And I don't see any particular Taiwan favoring, other than the fact he grew up/learned his kung fu there, so obviously his biggest influences come from there.

I do agree that no one man can lay claim to knowing it all about kung fu, including Adam Hsu. I also respect him as a practitioner, but I do not agree with everything he says.

FWIW, he's come out with another book in recent years, Lone Sword Against the Cold, Cold Sky. He writes a lot more about his travels/experiences in mainland China.

I'd like to add that, in my observation, Adam Hsu is extremely passionate about kung fu and wants to see it preserved for future generations. That's why he feels the various systems need to be kept 'pure.' For example, he has said (I'm not sure if this was in his first book, second book, or both) that if you punch, pull back and punch again, it isn't kung fu, because you did not work off that initial contact into a second or third continuous technique. If you kick above the waist during sparring or competition, it isn't kung fu. Etc., etc. The issue for me is, what works for me in a given situation? Everything doesn't work the way it's 'supposed to' every time. Kung fu requires a flexible mindset, even if that means stepping outside of a 'pure style characteristic' mindset, IMO.

I think he makes valid points, and I think I see where he's coming from. But I must disagree with some of his thoughts as well. Nothing can exist or grow in a vacuum. I can pretty much guarantee that the kung fu styles he learned were not the same (when he learned them) as they were decades earlier. Everything must evolve, or it will die or become outdated. Now, if you're preserving it as a strictly cultural art form, then it's fine. If you want it to remain combat-relevant in modern times, then it must grow and learn to deal with the new circumstances/environment.

But to each his/her own. Whether I agree or disagree with his views, I respect Adam Hsu for his dedication and skills. It isn't easy dedicating one's whole life to spreading kung fu, however way you choose to see it.

[dirtyrat]

just to be clear, i never said Adam Hsu's word should be taken as "gospel". i do believe that he is generally well-respected. if i recall correctly there were members on this forum that made his book required reading for their students. i think if you do a search on this forum, you'll find threads that generally speaks favorably about him (and on this forum, that is something!! ;).

and yes, its always good policy to take things with a grain of salt, but i have found the things he talks about in his book to be close to what i have experienced in kung fu.

[hskwarrior]

My sifu always reminded me that you can tell the quality of one's gung fu by the age he passes away at.

Since Gung Fu is an individual endeavor, what makes gung fu ...gung fu is the INDIVIDUAL and the hard work he puts into it. Sure, gung fu mean great skill developed through hard work over time. But, gung fu isn't just about martial arts. Gung Fu is SKILL any way you look at it. Gung Fu can be found in any art, any sport, and THING an individual who puts in the time and effort to be good at what he or she does.

Long ago, i heard a Chinese Chef being called "SIFU" and i asked my sifu "is he a martial artist?" My sifu informed me that yes a CHEF, an athlete, a painter, or even a dancer or even a tattoo artist who is at the top of their game can be called Sifu and said to have good gung fu ....meaning skill.

So, on the most important level, what makes gung fu ....gung fu is HARD WORK by the INDIVIDUAL.

Where i believe a problem lies is when people try to imitate the CHINA side of chinese martial arts. Some will try to "BECOME" chinese just to be accepted by the Chinese. Others are intoxicated by the vapors of gung fu and completely misconstrue the art and get all esoteric and mystical. THAT is not gung fu. Chi is not exclusively "GUNG FU" because Chi can be built up by any athlete not related to gung fu.

So whether you're interested in weapons, forms, lion dancing, or fighting, if you don't put in the work you will never have good gung fu.

JUST MY OPINION.

[Drake]

I'm interested in Chinese history. Modern Chinese culture, not so much.

But, then again, I am interested in history in general. This was just something new and fresh.

[Gru Bianca]

It seems there is some little drift from what I think (please correct me if I'm wrong) Ronin meant with the opening of this thread. I guess he was referring more to the arsenal and technical aspect of the art rather then the general meaning of Gongfu.

[No_Know]

What makes Kung-Fu, Kung-Fu?..The spelling.

No_Know

[hskwarrior]

Oh_No !!!!!!

[SPJ]

kung fu is a journey and the road map is defined by you.

I like to add 2 things. Many good points already been posted.

1. specializing or honing in on a certain set of skills or related jin/power/energy.

Without practicing or developing jin or gong, your moves or techniques may not work.

For example, in tong bei, we stress the whipping power. we start with shaking wrist, rotating elbow, and the shoulder, -- we also practice stepping on toes and heels or deng and ta.

Eventually, we practice to develop whole body whipping power.
It starts with feet by stepping into the ground, the recoil power from ground then transferred all the way up, stored in your shoulder and then expressed in your fingers or palm.

It takes time and stages of diligent practice to get there.

2. do not look down on basics. Kung fu is about developing excellence in the basics of your style.

They are bread and butter. They are bricks and foundation to build things on.

From day one to day whenever, we still practice basics daily.

For example, in ba ji, we have all the basic moves in small frame.

We then have some tactics and strategy and derivatives from small frame into large frame. (intermediate level)

In advance level, we actually practice specialized moves in the lian huan routine.

In short, the advance is still from the basic moves but just more focused to a special theme or apps.

Therefore, we take times (kung fu) to develop the skills and jin (kung/gong).

We practice the basics (kung/gong) to a proficient level.

We learn the tactics and strategy and apps well.

:)

[wenshu]

精 气 神
jing qi shen

手 眼 身法 步
shou yan shenfa bu

弓 马 仆 虚 歇
gong ma pu xu xie

三节合
san jie he (I hear all sorts of variants of this principle. Alternatively liu he; san wai + san nei he. Or san duan; shang zhong xia etc. The idea of whole body integration or coordination)

[Yum Cha]

I think, amongst other things, there's a lot more free will and mindfulness required to study Kung Fu, "Making it your own." There is more plurality an subtlety in the techniques and training than regimented and catalogued arts - and you have to figure it out yourself.

The aforementioned "Road map is not the same as a destination."

Obviously, the folks that think collecting forms is the same as learning 'kung fu' are in real danger of missing the point entirely.

[MightyB]

Kung Fu is about how many forms you know and how sweet you look while performing them!!!

[bawang]

chinese people

[dirtyrat]

Many don't like his politics, his overt Taiwan favouring and his veiled racism towards non-chinese in that book.

I've read it. I respect his Kung Fu skills.
I look at it (SPR book) through somewhat cynical eyes.


i went over the book, and i just don't see any pushing of political agenda, overt Taiwan favoring or veiled racism toward non-chinese...

he did note his difficulty in bridging cultural barriers when he taught in the states.

there was a chapter where he said he was impressed with the other kung fu instructors in San Francisco, though he didn't care for some people's obsession with titles.

[YouKnowWho]

I like the simple definition of Kung Fu as:

The human body contains 3 separate springs. Without Kung Fu training, those 3 springs will be compressed and released independently. With Kung Fu training, you can make all 3 springs to be compressed and released at the same time.

[Kung Fu God]

Power from ground, to foot, to ankle, to knee, to hip, to waist, to rib, to shoulder, to elbow, to wrist, to finger..... body like a whip, or ocean wave crashing = Kung Fu

[hskwarrior]

Power from ground, to foot, to ankle, to knee, to hip, to waist, to rib, to shoulder, to elbow, to wrist, to finger..... body like a whip, or ocean wave crashing = Kung Fu

yeah maybe for those of us with two GOOD shoulders.

[IronFist]

So if a martial art came out of China that "looked like karate," would it still be kung fu?

[sanjuro_ronin]

So if a martial art came out of China that "looked like karate," would it still be kung fu?

You mean CLF?
:D

[Pork Chop]

You mean CLF?
:D

I would've at least gone with Ngor Chor

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Personally I consider San Shou to be Kung Fu, although it has elements of western boxing and greco roman wrestling that are not Chinese based arts. Of course, it also has Shuai Jiao and other TCMA techniques.

It is generally recognized as the full contact venue for Kung Fu practioners. The point is that what is considered Kung Fu is really subjective and kind of a dead horse to argue over, especially from the LARPing side.

[David Jamieson]

Everything is subjective. :)

Kung Fu is clear. I think people want it to be something less or more than what they currently project upon it.

San shou is a limb of kung fu and not a totality of it.
Mostly it was taken from judo and muay thai though and later things were adapted and changed etc.

san shou isn't the same everywhere you go either. some place have elbows and knees, others don't some places encourage the slam throws and others want it to be more rolling throws.

San shou is the new sportified kickboxing version that was made so people could compete with a ruleset that was fair and could be weight based. It's pretty new in that regards. San Shou did not replace Lei Tai at all.

San Da used to be free style fighting within a system or style that students would use to test their progress. free strikes = san da and san shou=free style/hands.

These terms were specific to a training modality that got wrapped into being the sportive kickboxing version of chinese martial arts.

It's all good, but Kung Fu is a total effort of the human being.

Not unlike how Yoga these days is practiced with only 1 or 2 limbs of it and the rest is left behind. probably because of cultural gap and lack of understanding from one culture to another in regards to what those limbs are and how to practice them in daily living.

san shou is kickboxing sport with chinese martial arts as the base.

[Pork Chop]

Mostly it was taken from judo and muay thai though and later things were adapted and changed etc.


Actually, they didn't start bringing in the Thais until pretty late in san shou's development.
According to the head coach of the US Sanshou team, who has prior experience fighting pro Sanda in China; they didn't hire any Thai coaches till the late 90s.
Sanshou's outside influences for punching & kicking came from TKD & Sambo first and foremost.
They have fundamentally different mechanics than muay thai for punches & kicks; and they've always had those differences.

[David Jamieson]

Actually, they didn't start bringing in the Thais until pretty late in san shou's development.
According to the head coach of the US Sanshou team, who has prior experience fighting pro Sanda in China; they didn't hire any Thai coaches till the late 90s.
Sanshou's outside influences for punching & kicking came from TKD & Sambo first and foremost.
They have fundamentally different mechanics than muay thai for punches & kicks; and they've always had those differences.

It's been 20 years or so since san shou made the scene so to speak and it's been less than 10 that it's gotten to where it is now.

The last stuff I saw of it in dev was in the mid and late 90's and it was littered with Muay Thai training and techniques.

I agree, TKD was pretty big in bringing it about in the early years to separate it cleanly from wushu demonstration.

I wasn't aware of a sambo connection. That's typically eastern euro/Russian style stuff. That must have been later than earlier.

It's on it's own now, but it really is a relatively new invention as far as sport martial arts go. It was a way for the Chinese martial arts to throwdown as well.

Cool about the sambo. I wasn't aware of it.

[brothernumber9]

I'm not sure what is the current context of sanshou, but between '90 and '92/'93 the NACMAF tournaments were running sanshou divisions and the majority of contestants were from kung fu schools that at the time did not cross train in muay thai or judo or whatever. The various schools trained in conventional jabs, hooks, uppercuts, push, side, and roundhouse kicks, and throws, contoured a bit to the stylistics of what system they were learning or at least toward the sifus' bias'.

Shawn Liu was the head coach, but to be honest everyone at the time took his word of fight experience with rolly eyes. But other than some fighters that either came from overseas or were from schools that focused only on fighting, I never saw anything that looked like an over influence of muay thai, tae kwan do or judo.

[brothernumber9]

now that I think of it. I'm not sure Shawn Liu was the head coach at that time. He may hav been, but It may have been someone else like sifu John Tsai, or Sifu Mike Barry, or Sifu Tai Yim, or Sifu Goh.

[David Jamieson]

I'm not sure what is the current context of sanshou, but between '90 and '92/'93 the NACMAF tournaments were running sanshou divisions and the majority of contestants were from kung fu schools that at the time did not cross train in muay thai or judo or whatever. The various schools trained in conventional jabs, hooks, uppercuts, push, side, and roundhouse kicks, and throws, contoured a bit to the stylistics of what system they were learning or at least toward the sifus' bias'.


Agreed. Because virtually every club had san da / san shou on the course. It was essentially how people sparred with their kung fu. Free style use of the style they were learning.

I think the differences in how Kung Fu schools focused is what forced the established kickboxing connection. Chinese Martial Arts were simply too diverse and there is way to much politics about martial arts in it's own circles and to the detriment of Chinese martial arts overall.

Because of the huge differences and arguments, the only way to go was to force a rule set and stick to it. A lot of older guys or particularly egotistical guys got huffy and either got out or went big guns with it and got rid of all the rest often kung fu training in favour of sport kickboxing with throws that were for the most part taken from other arts and were no longer really Chinese martial arts.

Then the good part happened! Kung Fu was suddenly useless and only sport fighting was deemed worthy!

lol, bloody simple minds are abundant. :rolleyes:

[Pork Chop]

I wasn't aware of a sambo connection. That's typically eastern euro/Russian style stuff. That must have been later than earlier.


Actually the earliest military sanshou training materials are somewhat close to the combat sambo that the soviet military was using when both were created in the 1920s.
Sanshou competition rules (http://www.wusociety.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=35) were drafted in 1982.
There wasn't much muay thai influence prior to 95. Cung Le was a big name by 1994.
The big san shou vs muay thai bouts didn't kick off till about 2000.
You can look at chinese sanshou training videos available through martialartsmart.com (http://www.martialartsmart.com/tc-bj006.html) and see for yourself that the techniques are not Thai in flavor.

[SPJ]

What makes kung fu kung fu?

It is you. You make the journey, so you make kung fu kung fu.


In the 1980s, I listened to 'Without you" from air supply.

In the 1990s, I listened to "Without you" from Mariah Carey.

She listened to the song when she was a kid. She sang it so many times. She put her emotions in the song. She made the song her own.

If you learn something for so long, you put your time in practicing it so many times. You make it your own.

It is your kung fu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hat1Hc9SNwE&feature=youtu.be

:cool:

[B.Tunks]

Actually the earliest military sanshou training materials are somewhat close to the combat sambo that the soviet military was using when both were created in the 1920s.
Sanshou competition rules (http://www.wusociety.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=35) were drafted in 1982.
There wasn't much muay thai influence prior to 95. Cung Le was a big name by 1994.
The big san shou vs muay thai bouts didn't kick off till about 2000.
You can look at chinese sanshou training videos available through martialartsmart.com (http://www.martialartsmart.com/tc-bj006.html) and see for yourself that the techniques are not Thai in flavor.

Pork Chop's on the money.

[Lokhopkuen]

The kool uniforms,
http://www.arsportasia.com/pic/digi/0830.jpg
yep it's the uniforms for sure:D
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8Q08SYKcQEo/TduM6lWbVFI/AAAAAAAACSY/bObrtqQV4lk/s1600/Jamie-Chung.jpg


Last weekend I had some friends over and family.
My brother-in-law who is into MMA ( watching not training) and a freind were debating MA and asked me what is the difference between the various styles and I gave a quick and politically correct summary.
But then the BIL asked what makes kung fu, kung fu?
I explained some of the technical uniqueness of kung fu, comapred the forms with karate and TKD but as I was doing so I realized that is NOT what makes kung fu, kung fu.
Many other systems have forms like kung fu, many other systems share the techniques, many others share the principles and many others share the "look and feel" of kung fu.
So I contemplated my navel ( as I do in situations like this) and realized that, for ME, what makes kung fu, kung fu is:
The Gungs.

And you?

[MightyB]

The kool uniforms,
http://www.arsportasia.com/pic/digi/0830.jpg
yep it's the uniforms for sure:D
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8Q08SYKcQEo/TduM6lWbVFI/AAAAAAAACSY/bObrtqQV4lk/s1600/Jamie-Chung.jpg

Darnit man - pics like these are making it very hard for me (pun intended) to meet my personal lenten challenge of no internet porn. DAY 2

[Lokhopkuen]

Funny David I had never heard of the term San Da until I read it in a KF Mag and I learned with all Chinese LOL.

I'll get serious for a beat; What makes Kung Fu, KUNG FU? I was taught (via example) that It's the depth of thought and applied practice regarding the teaching of martial based self cultivation. Traditional Kung Fu is about having a plan that encompasses the long view with considerations of the bigger picture.

Most practitioners these days (IMHO) only think in terms of the individual's skill sets metered on some sort of bad a ss factoring self assessments. The stuff I read here and what some of you think is important is sometimes sad and scary in the same breath:p
Loyalty, honor, duty to many are by-gone concepts (?) and most seeker/ practitioners flitter from teacher to teacher adding and discarding from "the menu" as if shopping a department store for the latest fashionable martial technique. Many after making their selections have the audacity to CREATE THEIR OWN STYLES... to each his own :rolleyes:

Traditional kung fu (in our association) is about the group collective as family extended over and through generations with clear definition of mission built on a series of values and principles. In my teacher's approach (which I strictly adhere to as student/teacher for over 30 years);
We;
Promote and advance the martial arts as a means for individuals to achieve self-betterment, self-discovery, and self-discipline via our system of martial cultivations.

We teach our art to any one regardless of age, sex, race, color, or nationality who is willing to learn and have no motives to defame the art, disrupt the class or use the art for unethical and/or illegal purposes. We spread the teachings of the art via the most efficient and economic means thereby reaching as many willing students as possible. We present the martial arts in all aspects. i.e., as means for self-defense, sport, physical training, philosophy, entertainment, performance, science, health, healing, discipline, meditation, mental development, confidence building, sportsmanship, art, history, culture, etc.& cultivate the martial arts as a vehicle for developing friendship, teamwork, communications and cooperation, and not as means for dominance, suppression, control and undue influence over others.

We;
Present the art in its most realistic form refraining from trickery, myths, deceptions, and supernatural claims.
We;
Produce students that appreciate and understand the martial arts but not necessarily be experts or champions.
We;
Develop successors who can carry the responsibility of continuing and expanding the missions and principles of the class by proper teaching of the art and most important of all, the philosophy and ethics.

We;
Continue to better our style of martial arts via the processes of actual practice and applications of the teachings leading to re-evaluation, discovery, and understanding.

My teacher's student base extend over 4 generations:D

Our older Aunts and Uncles still hang around and practice Tai Chi, deep breath works and meditate on the subtleties of the double edged straight sword. A few old die hards (such as myself) still struggle through the long, exhausting yet dynamically energizing Northern Shaolim practice forms. Our teens and twenty somethings hang outside or in the back room sparring and wrestling, figuring out how its applied, working out an understanding of the rules of engagement, distance, ranges, timing, intention, coming to the senior aunts and uncles picking our brains, testing our skills! Our children practice the basic then go play outside while we do our sets. Every once in a while we have to pause swinging a broadsword, horse cutter, Qwan Dao as a gaggle of little monkeys dash across the floor and through our ranks as we just pause and smile growling at them to be careful. Our children seem stronger, smarter and faster than the average youngling (?) I'm sure this is simply a doting parental bias;)

Kung Fu is about family it's about LIFE! The fact our system of martial cultivations is time proven to be an effective and broad based pool of martial arts knowledge, deserves our best efforts to continue to enhance and develop its values to benefit others in the future. Our Kung Fu Association has successfully developed a group of dedicated and capable individuals as instructors who can carry the teachings and leanings forward to the future.

In the coming years, our hope is for these individuals to further spread the art following the Mission, Value, and Principles set down for the Association. Personally I have gone through about 2 generations of students in our martial family and already working on the third. I intend to continue spending more time teaching to young children as long as I have the energy to do so. I believe the seeds have to be planted when they are young. Also, I will continue my personal pursuit for excellence in the Martial Arts as a way of life and hope to lead the developed and key exponents my extended Association to reach new heights in their martial arts endeavors.

I ask readers here to please forgive my half formed, ill connected thoughts along with my innate inability to adequately express myself.

Submitted Sincerely :D





Agreed. Because virtually every club had san da / san shou on the course. It was essentially how people sparred with their kung fu. Free style use of the style they were learning.

I think the differences in how Kung Fu schools focused is what forced the established kickboxing connection. Chinese Martial Arts were simply too diverse and there is way to much politics about martial arts in it's own circles and to the detriment of Chinese martial arts overall.

Because of the huge differences and arguments, the only way to go was to force a rule set and stick to it. A lot of older guys or particularly egotistical guys got huffy and either got out or went big guns with it and got rid of all the rest often kung fu training in favour of sport kickboxing with throws that were for the most part taken from other arts and were no longer really Chinese martial arts.

Then the good part happened! Kung Fu was suddenly useless and only sport fighting was deemed worthy!

lol, bloody simple minds are abundant. :rolleyes:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well put dude.
But...:D, one can very easily argue that none of that is unique to Kung fu.
If you were to remove "kung fu" and put "karate" I would venture to say that most, if not all of that, would still be true.

[Lokhopkuen]

Well put dude.
But...:D, one can very easily argue that none of that is unique to Kung fu.
If you were to remove "kung fu" and put "karate" I would venture to say that most, if not all of that, would still be true.

http://simpsons.skewsme.com/img/james_brown_simpsons_2.jpg
I DON'T KNOW KARATE BUT I KNOW KA-RAZOR (YES I DOOOO!):rolleyes:

[Lokhopkuen]

Well put dude.
But...:D, one can very easily argue that none of that is unique to Kung fu.
If you were to remove "kung fu" and put "karate" I would venture to say that most, if not all of that, would still be true.

Karate is more "do or die", "kill or be killed" where as kung fu as a martial art is more flexible, adaptive, uhhh like POWER GIRL!! LOL!


http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv39/zoozone/4-POWERGIRL-BAIRDJLE-4.jpg

There you go using that logic stuff:rolleyes: rolling at her not you....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Impossible for me to argue with that :D

[Lokhopkuen]

Wish I could get my woman to say that:p

[hskwarrior]

Hom Sup Lo's........


EVERYONE of ya.....me included.:o....but yeah....

[Lokhopkuen]

Néih hóu Hom Sup Lo, pung yao:D

[hskwarrior]

Néih hóu Hom Sup Lo, pung yao

Ho Pang Yao i am THE Hom Sup Lo round these parts :D

[Lokhopkuen]

wUrd;) but don't get it twisted:rolleyes:
http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/5-yoga-half-spinal-twist.jpg