Bullies....

[TenTigers]

ok, so I have some kids who are being bullied. Here are a few examples, and I would love to hear your input and suggestions.

1) Kid is 15, honor roll, great MA student, great kid. He is getting hassled by his "peers," for (get this) NOT smoking weed. His mom called me-he hasn't come in yet. He even didn't want to go to school, he was that upset. I cannot understand how someone with so much smarts, and so much going for him can get so affected by this. Usually, it's the other way around-kids not wanting to be friends with another because he DOES smoke weed. Wow.
Now, a little background-he was quite shy when he came in to my school last year. Since then, he has become a role model here. He is highly motivated and motivates others. He competes, Lion Dances, does demos, you name it. He has undergone such a change-but, as you can see, that insecurity is still there. It doesn't go away in just one year.

2) Kid is 10, a bit small and "young" for his age. Has a reading problem, but is not learning disabled. He's a sweet kid, pretty bright in other ways,gentle, funny. His MA is doing very well. He competes, demos,fights (although he does need some "toughening up" but he's young, and he gets right back up, wipes his eyes, and gets in there.
Kids are picking on him, calling him stupid, and it's getting physical. He's afraid to defend himself, I guess. That is hard. You can learn technique and spar, but to be that guy who can just haul off and punch someone in the face...face it. Fighting (not sparring) is scary. It's not in all of us.

[David Jamieson]

I think you might find some insight on how to speak to these kids through the "It Gets Better" Project.

Youtube has a gorillian videos around the idea that "It gets better".

Yes, the project was started to help LGBT kids in school get over the hills of being bullied by closed minded fools, but there is a lot about it that can be applied to any of the cruelty that kids face with each other or anyone else.

How does the older kid feel about wearing the "Just Say No" T-shirt to class? Or to take it another level of push back he could wear one that says " Dope is for Dopes" or "Only losers use drugs" etc and get the point across quite well.

They both need to understand that they don't need to leave the keys to their happiness in someone else's pocket and that bullies are like that because they are hurting themselves. Pity them.

To teach violence as the reaction can lead to compound interest on the cycle of violence. While a short sharp shock certainly does work in some cases, in others it can bring more trouble. So better to let that sort of thing happen organically as required and to go at it from a mental aspect instead.

If those kids know that they are correct and upright in their position, they won't be concerned with the bullies.

[TenTigers]

my (ex-step)daughter at 11 yrs old, has an incident with another "friend."
She was over her house for a playdate, and the friend invited another girl over as well.
Well, they then teamed up against her, and the "friend," flatleft her for the other one.

Pretty bad scene for an eleven yr-old.
So..she says she is done with this girl. Her mom says,"You are new in the neighborhood, and she is the only friend you have now."
Her reply was,"I would rather go a year without any friends at all, than to have a "friend" like that."
I was so proud of her.
I know how hard it is for a child to feel that, and harder still to be able to make that kind of decision. Strong kid.

[WingChunABQ]

You might talk to the 15 year old and let him know that the approval of morons is worthless. It's tough for teenagers, since they're hard-wired to care very much about what their peers think of them. Let him know that he has the choice to hold his head up high - after all, it sounds like he has a lot to be proud of.

The ten year old should have recourse to adults - his teachers at school, his parents. As far as in your dojo, I'd try to create as much success for him as possible - lots of praise and challenging but attainable goals. Nothing trains confidence like success.

[hskwarrior]

I had a classmate in my sifu's school that was a grown man who acted like kid no.2. he was a good guy, but, he baked cookies and let his wife make all the decisions. he wanted to be tough but i noticed that it wasn't in him. So, i personally bullied him, meaning i would purposefully push him to the point he'd get ****ed off. When he did i'd smile and say "I knew you had it in you. Over time he started pushing back and everyone noticed that he stopped being a push over. He admitted that although it hurt his feelings at times he appreciated what i did with him. cause he stopped letting EVERYONE push him around, including his wife.

Sometimes you just have to help wake up the fighter that dwells inside all of us.

Kid no. 1, he is doing the right thing by not smoking weed. People who PRESSURE people to do something that is not only against the law but could affect his life later on, need to get their butts kicked.

You student should be proud to be different. looks like he makes the right choices. and in the end, true friends would never force you to do something you don't want to do. Back in the day, i had friends who did coke around me and would ask me if i wanted to do a line...i'd be like "nah, i'm cool brah".......and they'd respect that.

[Almost A Ghost]

1) He's going to have to learn to change his social circle. Yeah, it's hard when you're 15 and forced to see the same people 5 times a week and at the age where peer acceptance is everything, but that's just part of growing up.

2) It's tricky. I'm sure there's a whole lot going on in his head: he's afraid to hit someone, he's afraid of getting hit, he's afraid to use his training because what if it doesn't work. I would get an older student who out ranks him and is slightly bigger to spar him and tell that senior student to not let up until the lower rank starts putting a little more oomph into his strikes/kicks/blocks and build up his confidence in himself and his training at the same time. My neighbor, who's five years older than me, did this to me to help me with my soccer. When I was 12 I became terrified to go one-on-one when I had possession of the ball or trying to take possession. He would go just a little bit harder each team I asserted myself slightly building me up. By the end the fear of confrontation and failure was gone.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The dead can't be bullies....just saying ;)

[taai gihk yahn]

I had a classmate in my sifu's school that was a grown man who acted like kid no.2. he was a good guy, but, he baked cookies and let his wife make all the decisions. he wanted to be tough but i noticed that it wasn't in him. So, i personally bullied him, meaning i would purposefully push him to the point he'd get ****ed off. When he did i'd smile and say "I knew you you had it in you. Over time he started pushing back and everyone noticed all that we stopped being a push over. He admitted that although it hurt his feelings at times but he appreciated what i did with him. cause he stopped letting EVERYONE push him around, including his wife.

Sometimes you just have for help wake up the fighter that dwells inside all of us.

Kid no. 1, he is doing the right thing by not smoking weed. People who PRESSURE people to do something that is not only against the law but could affect his life later on, need to get their butts kicked.

You student should be proud to be different. looks like he makes the right choices. and in the end, true friends would never force you to do something you don't want to do. Back in the day, i had friends who did coke around me and would ask me if i wanted to do a line...i'd be like "nah, i'm cool brah".......and they'd respect that.

this is some of the smartest insight and advice I've read on the topic

[hskwarrior]

this is some of the smartest insight and advice I've read on the topic

well, i've been there. peer pressured to try something i didn't want to do. sure, i grew up around people who had some kind of vice and some tried to get me to try things. I knew better. I know friends who've lost their minds on Angel Dust and PCP. That wasn't the route for me.

Saying NO can be pretty hard on a teenager. At that age they don't want to lose friends over a choice not to do drugs. Still, it takes the stronger person to say no. Many many times i've been with friends who drink alcohol too and pressured me to drink. I'd stand my ground and tell em nah i'm good. sometimes they thought i was square because i didn't drink or want to do other things. but i saw in them the potential to fail in life and stood behind my stance on not doing it. It was later that they complimented me for not being a follower.

Getting bullied.....people tried. mostly because i was a white kid in the hood. On the flipside, my older brother taught me how to fight before i was 5 years old. so when people tried to bully me i'd fight em right there on the spot. Got more respect that way.

I don't encourage kids to fight. yet i do encourage them to put a bully in their place. or at least let the bully know they are ready to fight if they have to.

[Gru Bianca]

this is some of the smartest insight and advice I've read on the topic

Agree, felt to say exactly the same.

I was that kid too, the only one not smoking "fumo" (a surrogate of weed of dark brown colour of which I don't know the English term) in the car in that cold winter night at the sea side (just one of the many occasion). My friends poked at me at times but all in all they respected my choice that's why I was also more often then not the driver of the night out, cause I was the one to not get crazy with drinking

[hskwarrior]

(a surrogate of weed of dark brown colour of which I don't know the English term)

thats mexican weed hahaha. Cali is known for its GREENER pastures LOL

[ginosifu]

Everyone has some good ideas.... I think we need to build these kids up. Build their self esteem and help them feel good enough about themselves. Make them feel better than these bullies.

I tried this:

A shy kid who was getting bullied (pushed around a little, nothing bad). So to help their self esteem, during Shuai Chiao class I put up against a kid I knew they could defeat. They one a few matches and started getting confident... this went one over time and eventually they were no longer bothered by the bullies cuz they did not act scared around them, so they left my student alone.

ginosifu

[David Jamieson]

Make the bullies feel better about themselves is an even stronger angle of attack.
It is usually the Bully who is more fragile and more broken than the kids that get bullied.

Find them out, help them up.

[hskwarrior]

Make the bullies feel better about themselves is an even stronger angle of attack.
It is usually the Bully who is more fragile and more broken than the kids that get bullied.

Find them out, help them up.

Sorry, I have to disagree here. little talks, make the bully feel better about himself, lift him up...help the bully........this won't work. at all. If you have some good examples of this working bro, i'll take this response down. But, i'd have to see or read a prime example of a real thug, bully, being talked out of being a bully.

That might work in the movies, in a fantasy play, or something of this nature. In real life, yeah the bully may have personal issues in his private life. but, soft as cotton pep talks never work on real bullies. The bully may need to take medication.....have a chemical imbalance or something like this.

However, video proof has proven there is only one effective way to stop a bully. And that starts with the one being bullied. Standing up for yourself and being ready to fight back is the ONLY proven way to stop a bully. and, at times even this doesn't work. Still, out of all the video's of kids fighting back, how many of those kids continued to be bullied by the same person again? Almost NONE because the bully was put in his place.

Now AFTER stopping a bully from his mission to bully people you may want to give him a pep talk, lift him up, give him a warm loving hug (lol). GOOD LUCK ON THIS however. :D

[TenTigers]

yeah, we know that bullies are insecure, lack self-esteem, and strike out at others to make themselves feel less inadequate...well, usually. Some are just fukked up psychopaths, and giving them more self-esteem is fuel for the fire.
I know a few guys who are like that, and after many years of Martial Arts training, they are now psychopathic baddas$es-with skillz.

[sanjuro_ronin]

yeah, we know that bullies are insecure, lack self-esteem, and strike out at others to make themselves feel less inadequate...well, usually. Some are just fukked up psychopaths, and giving them more self-esteem is fuel for the fire.
I know a few guys who are like that, and after many years of Martial Arts training, they are now psychopathic baddas$es-with skillz.

I think that every instructor has had at least one of those and these are the teachers that, in the past, went on to be far more careful in what and to whom they teach.
The was a time that MA were the "bullies" of the time and while now that is less of the case, I wonder how the future will be with more access to MA than ever before and not as many teachers being "judges of character".

[Lucas]

we have a lot of 'fast food' martial arts schools now days.

just like fast food, it fills the hole. Ya fast food fills you up, keeps you going, puts some fuel in the old gas tank...but it doesnt carry all of the nutrients you actually need for a BALANCED healthy diet.

[Sardinkahnikov]

IMO, the problem with your 15 year old student should solve itself sooner or later, as he will grow a ticker skin after realizing that the opinions of idiotic highschool dopeheads don't really matter.

The younger one could be trickier, tho. Try to boost his confidence and social skills (asking him to perform/fight/demonstrate in front of an audience, or putting him in situations where he has to communicate effectively, for example). If he's comfortable in his own skin, he's less likely to be bullied.

The ***** thing about bullying is that we shouldn't really intervene, but help the kid develop the assets that'll allow him/her to overcome the problem.

[Syn7]

ok, so I have some kids who are being bullied. Here are a few examples, and I would love to hear your input and suggestions.

1) Kid is 15, honor roll, great MA student, great kid. He is getting hassled by his "peers," for (get this) NOT smoking weed. His mom called me-he hasn't come in yet. He even didn't want to go to school, he was that upset. I cannot understand how someone with so much smarts, and so much going for him can get so affected by this. Usually, it's the other way around-kids not wanting to be friends with another because he DOES smoke weed. Wow.
Now, a little background-he was quite shy when he came in to my school last year. Since then, he has become a role model here. He is highly motivated and motivates others. He competes, Lion Dances, does demos, you name it. He has undergone such a change-but, as you can see, that insecurity is still there. It doesn't go away in just one year.

2) Kid is 10, a bit small and "young" for his age. Has a reading problem, but is not learning disabled. He's a sweet kid, pretty bright in other ways,gentle, funny. His MA is doing very well. He competes, demos,fights (although he does need some "toughening up" but he's young, and he gets right back up, wipes his eyes, and gets in there.
Kids are picking on him, calling him stupid, and it's getting physical. He's afraid to defend himself, I guess. That is hard. You can learn technique and spar, but to be that guy who can just haul off and punch someone in the face...face it. Fighting (not sparring) is scary. It's not in all of us.

Hitting back isn't a really good idea. I find that it usually just leads to more violence. When I was young I was small and I had a bit of a temper and I did hit back and it didn't always go that well. The satisfaction of thumping out a bully was never as nice as knowing the situation has been diffused another way and is just "gone" and every time I did swat some kid I obviously was ratted out and paid for it. But it does go away. Kids have pretty short memories. What he needs is to speak one on one with somebody who has diffused the situation with words and he needs to learn those techniques. Of course the only real cure is confidence. Every kid is different and there's no cookie cutter solution to confidence problems. Maybe a bit of extra attention in front of his peers would teach him to be more confident and carry that out of MA and into the real world.

Build him up. Just not too much.

And the 15 year old just needs to learn how to tell people to **** off. He's 15, it's time he learned that people are not all equal and that he's on the right side of it. If he wants to be one of the better men he needs to understand that how he feels about himself will have far more impact on how others feel about him than anything he does or doesn't do under peer pressure.

We can defend weed all day but in the end every one of us that smokes knows we would be better off without it. I'm glad I grew out of how it was when I was younger. it was always there, morning till bed. I like to smoke in order to ensure that I lay down and do nothing, relax. But it isn't good for much else. I used to actually believe it motivated me. So many stoners actually believe that. Inspire maybe, motivate, not so much. We fooled ourselves into believing it was ok because we were still active. What we didn't realize is that we would have been more active without it.

[Syn7]

The ***** thing about bullying is that we shouldn't really intervene, but help the kid develop the assets that'll allow him/her to overcome the problem.

Word....!!!

[hskwarrior]

But it isn't good for much else. I used to actually believe it motivated me. So many stoners actually believe that. Inspire maybe, motivate, not so much. We fooled ourselves into believing it was ok because we were still active. What we didn't realize is that we would have been more active without it.

Well, since you left weed way back in the dinosaur age it has changed dramatically since then. There is weed to make you relax n sleep. there is some that keep you energized and focused. other strains of the plant can benefit cancer patients who cannot eat due to nausea but the weed gives them the super munchies.

I support medical marijuana.

[Syn7]

I think that every instructor has had at least one of those and these are the teachers that, in the past, went on to be far more careful in what and to whom they teach.
The was a time that MA were the "bullies" of the time and while now that is less of the case, I wonder how the future will be with more access to MA than ever before and not as many teachers being "judges of character".

with great skill comes great responsibility!!!;) lol

I agree.

Classic Karate Kid lesson, ay! Kinda cheesy but true none the less.

But how much responsibility does an instructor have to a child that has been failed by their parents? You could just turn them away and hope they don't find a teacher without scruples. Taking that on isn't your job. Not for that kind of money anyways. Some MA teachers just happen to be great with kids tho, and that's all good. But it shouldn't be expected. I guess it depends if you're running a serious school, an MA daycare or a mix of both.

[Syn7]

Well, since you left weed way back in the dinosaur age it has changed dramatically since then. There is weed to make you relax n sleep. there is some that keep you energized and focused. other strains of the plant can benefit cancer patients who cannot eat due to nausea but the weed gives them the super munchies.

I support medical marijuana.

How old do you think I am? Trust me, I live in Vancouver BC. When you get chronic, it came from here. We are in the top 3 on the planet. And it's cheap.

Weed is great for nausea. I was talking about abuse, not use. Like I said, I like to smoke and relax. Any weed that takes you UP is not cool. That isn't selective breeding, that is genetically modified. Saty away from that sh1t, you get it enough at the supermarket.

[hskwarrior]

How old do you think I am? Trust me, I live in Vancouver BC. When you get chronic, it came from here. We are in the top 3 on the planet. And it's cheap.

Weed is great for nausea. I was talking about abuse, not use. Like I said, I like to smoke and relax. Any weed that takes you UP is not cool. That isn't selective breeding, that is genetically modified. Saty away from that sh1t, you get it enough at the supermarket.

humboldt bro..humboldt...... :D

[David Jamieson]

Well if you're not even gonna try to take a different angle of attack on the issue, nothing will change.

everything advocated here has been done to death and it's still an issue.

-fight the bully
-tell a teacher
-speak with the bully's parents

I'm not saying everything in the world can be made right, it can't, but people are people and everyone can be spoken with and reasoned with on some level unless they are mentally incapable.

A different path has not been taken to fix the bully and everyone is trying to fix the bullied.
The kids who are getting bullied aren't the problem and don't have a problem.

so, I advocate:

- Identify the Bully
- Segregate the Bully
- Educate the Bully
- Be consistent in support
- Be resilient in approach

I do not advocate:

- encourage the fight response as the answer
- shaming
- making kids deal with adult realities

This creates an endless cycle. What's needed is a genuine want for a better environment, not vengeance, not reciprocal force. Compassion will fix more problems than punches will. Ever.

[hskwarrior]

Well if you're not even gonna try to take a different angle of attack on the issue, nothing will change.

everything advocated here has been done to death and it's still an issue.

-fight the bully
-tell a teacher
-speak with the bully's parents

I'm not saying everything in the world can be made right, it can't, but people are people and everyone can be spoken with and reasoned with on some level unless they are mentally incapable.

A different path has not been taken to fix the bully and everyone is trying to fix the bullied.
The kids who are getting bullied aren't the problem and don't have a problem.

so, I advocate:

- Identify the Bully
- Segregate the Bully
- Educate the Bully
- Be consistent in support
- Be resilient in approach

I do not advocate:

- encourage the fight response as the answer
- shaming
- making kids deal with adult realities

This creates an endless cycle. What's needed is a genuine want for a better environment, not vengeance, not reciprocal force. Compassion will fix more problems than punches will. Ever.

yet, the SOFT AS COTTON approach NEVER NEVER NEVER works. its just a fantasy.

[David Jamieson]

yet, the SOFT AS COTTON approach NEVER NEVER NEVER works. its just a fantasy.

I try it and it does actually work.
How much effort is put into the approach?

That's what counts. To consistently be patient, to consistently be firm. To not be overcome with our own anger towards failure.

[hskwarrior]

I try it and it does actually work.
How much effort is put into the approach?

That's what counts. To consistently be patient, to consistently be firm. To not be overcome with our own anger towards failure.

Who have you tried this with? you can't consistently be patient while the bully laughs at your attempts then goes and bullies another kid.

Do you have any supportive evidence that your method works above putting a bully in his place? I'd be interested in knowing where Soft as Cotton methods work. I'd like to see the kind of people that do this as well as give in to the S.A.C. approach.

I bet alot that the parents of the three white guys tried to S.A.C. approach with these kids, but i don't really think it worked.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=daf_1329488202

[David Jamieson]

Who have you tried this with? you can't consistently be patient while the bully laughs at your attempts then goes and bullies another kid.

Do you have any supportive evidence that your method works above putting a bully in his place? I'd be interested in knowing where Soft as Cotton methods work. I'd like to see the kind of people that do this as well as give in to the S.A.C. approach.

I bet alot that the parents of the three white guys tried to S.A.C. approach with these kids, but i don't really think it worked.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=daf_1329488202

You can be consistently firm and consistently patient. the segregation of the bully removes him or her from the opportunity. It is important to identify and change their course.

Having worked with kids from junior high(middle school) and high school on this exact issue, I can say that identifying and segregating works in an immediate way.
Then it becomes a matter of digging deeper and applying counseling to the person in question.

I don't call it a soft as cotton approach. It isn't that. It can be difficult for the bully to have to deal with having his behaviours revealed to him in a matter of fact way and explaining how it is wrong.

It is a gradual process. there is no fast answer to correction of a human condition. It can be identified as harmful and stopped without bringing further harm to anyone.

Yes, you can fix stupid. It demands consistency, patience and perseverance towards the goal. I don't recommend it for anyone who is not capable of doing it. It takes a different kind of strength to do this than what many people are accustomed to recognizing as strength.

Bottom line is that violence begets violence. Fighting fire with fire means that everyone gets burned. It's terrible advice in my opinion. To fight fire, water is required. :)

[Sardinkahnikov]

I don't know, some kids can be really cynical. They can act ashamed and remorseful in front of you and resume the bullying when you're not around. Surely the bully has some personal issues that need addressing, but such "counseling-like" approach seems, at least in some cases, to be futile...I mean, these kids know that what they are doing is wrong. But why don't they stop doing it then?

I believe that bullies bully others because their keepers failed to impose limits. Sadly, the bullied kid frequently has to resort to open confrontation, since that's what sends the strongest message. It's when you feel pain in your own skin that you learn to respect other people - not only because of fear of retribution, but because you'll also understand what it feels like.

[hskwarrior]

You can be consistently firm and consistently patient. the segregation of the bully removes him or her from the opportunity. It is important to identify and change their course.

So what happens when you remove him and he bullies someone else? What about the bully who does this after school?



I don't call it a soft as cotton approach. It isn't that. It can be difficult for the bully to have to deal with having his behaviours revealed to him in a matter of fact way and explaining how it is wrong.


sorry, that is indeed a soft as cotton approach. i've never seen it work and if it does, it never works as effectively as a bully getting his butt kicked. THAT is the real eye opener for the bully. I'm sure that with all the bully video's showing the bullied kid fighting back that the bully was most likely CALLED OUT on his being a bully before. If i were a bully, i know i'd laugh at the S.A.C. approach, then i'd go bully another kid.



It is a gradual process. there is no fast answer to correction of a human condition. It can be identified as harmful and stopped without bringing further harm to anyone.

Punching a bully dead in his nose and knocking him out is the FASTEST way to get a bully to rethink what he's been doing. Bullied kids don't have the luxury of time to wait for the bully to finally come around after years of counseling.



Yes, you can fix stupid. It demands consistency, patience and perseverance towards the goal. I don't recommend it for anyone who is not capable of doing it. It takes a different kind of strength to do this than what many people are accustomed to recognizing as strength.

what is the next step if that doesn't work out for ya?



Bottom line is that violence begets violence. Fighting fire with fire means that everyone gets burned. It's terrible advice in my opinion. To fight fire, water is required.

Returned Violence can also immediately stop a bully. Why? because the bully finds out that the kid is willing to fight back. and when it happens, the bully in most cases is in a sh1t load of trouble and will never bully the kid again. he may even think twice about bullying others.

i'm sorry, turning the other cheek is only offering up another target for some people.

No disrespect is intended with this comment, so don't take it that way. but bro, i've seen your face and it says to ME....just to ME.....that you haven't really seen or been involved with real violence. i could be wrong.....but it usually shows in someones face that they've experienced some things.

to each his own. but if my son, nephew, niece, student or other family member were to be bullied, they would be taught what to do next if the bully keeps it up.


Life ain't hollywood and movies with happy endings are stories that have little to do with anything more than catering to your already established beliefs whether they are correct or not.

Your soft as cotton approach seems to think it does.

[David Jamieson]

I don't know, some kids can be really cynical. They can act ashamed and remorseful in front of you and resume the bullying when you're not around. Surely the bully has some personal issues that need addressing, but such "counseling-like" approach seems, at least in some cases, to be futile...I mean, these kids know that what they are doing is wrong. But why don't they stop doing it then?

I believe that bullies bully others because their keepers failed to impose limits. Sadly, the bullied kid frequently has to resort to open confrontation, since that's what sends the strongest message. It's when you feel pain in your own skin that you learn to respect other people - not only because of fear of retribution, but because you'll also understand what it feels like.

The approach you believe in is the same one that has always been used and it still fails. There hasn't been a grassroots level that has approached in a different way and if you see most street proofing and bully proofing puts the edge and burden of effort onto the bullied and doesn't work with the real problem which is the bullies.

Being patient is to the end of not being frustrated by the persons attempts at making you frustrated and leaving them to their ways.

Being firm is what allows consequence to be revealed.

Being consistent is what teaches the bully there is a need for change and that people will not resort to abandoning him or her and will actively work with them on bringing about change.

It's a different way of looking at it. I admit it and it is counter intuitive to how the general public feels about bullies. But then, the rules to live by in religion are counter intuitive to how people actually behave too. :p It's a stretch to find people who have actually learned to love their enemy and to embrace it and most certainly, belligerence is exhausting. It's exacerbated by the pseudonymous nature of the net where people don't have to be accountable for what they say or do. It's easy to dead end a conversation or idea online, you don't have to think about it once you disconnect. But someone up and in your face, daily? Yeah, that's different. Online bullies just need to be disconnected, in reality, they need to be dealt with one way or another and the old ways of thinking are NOT working.

Most people want to bully the bully to teach him how it feels. You know what? S/He probably already knows how it feels because s/he gets that already. probably in his or her family on some level there is abuse or neglect that transforms into that child's or adult's behaviour.

Life ain't hollywood and movies with happy endings are stories that have little to do with anything more than catering to your already established beliefs whether they are correct or not.

Maybe if people actually started TRYING to use the ethics and morality that have been shown there would be some real differences made.

[Sardinkahnikov]

The approach you believe in is the same one that has always been used and it still fails. There hasn't been a grassroots level that has approached in a different way and if you see most street proofing and bully proofing puts the edge and burden of effort onto the bullied and doesn't work with the real problem which is the bullies.

Being patient is to the end of not being frustrated by the persons attempts at making you frustrated and leaving them to their ways.

Being firm is what allows consequence to be revealed.

Being consistent is what teaches the bully there is a need for change and that people will not resort to abandoning him or her and will actively work with them on bringing about change.

It's a different way of looking at it. I admit it and it is counter intuitive to how the general public feels about bullies. But then, the rules to live by in religion are counter intuitive to how people actually behave too. :p It's a stretch to find people who have actually learned to love their enemy and to embrace it and most certainly, belligerence is exhausting. It's exacerbated by the pseudonymous nature of the net where people don't have to be accountable for what they say or do. It's easy to dead end a conversation or idea online, you don't have to think about it once you disconnect. But someone up and in your face, daily? Yeah, that's different. Online bullies just need to be disconnected, in reality, they need to be dealt with one way or another and the old ways of thinking are NOT working.

Most people want to bully the bully to teach him how it feels. You know what? S/He probably already knows how it feels because s/he gets that already. probably in his or her family on some level there is abuse or neglect that transforms into that child's or adult's behaviour.

Life ain't hollywood and movies with happy endings are stories that have little to do with anything more than catering to your already established beliefs whether they are correct or not.

Maybe if people actually started TRYING to use the ethics and morality that have been shown there would be some real differences made.

Jamieson, the thing is that you're a mature individual who minds the philosophical implications of your actions. But others (specially kids) may not share that trait. Frankly, sometimes working the bully is not worth the effort it takes. In the end, I think you call too much responsibility unto yourself, man.

What about the bullied? What'll happen when he has to face another bully and you're not around to take care of it? Seems like the most efficient way is to help the bullied one to develop the assets that'll help him to stop bullying dead in it's tracks, and I'm not talking about physical confrontation only either - it's all about thick skin, sharp tongue and confidence. And it doesn't take much to instill it in a kid either, it's just a matter of providing the correct stimuli.

[David Jamieson]

I don't think we should neglect the kids who get bullied. I think we should make attempts to instill confidence in them and strengths such as being strong voiced, making eye contact and even work on physically defending themselves to an extent.

I do think we should activate the watchfulness of teachers and encourage parents to pay extra attention to their kids and I also think there is a need for more community center activity as well.

There is simply not enough of the village raising the child anymore. there are simply not enough people stepping into programs to help and there are a lot of people who just want to leave it on someone else's plate.

Don't let schools parent your children. Don't let clubs parent your children and it can't be made clear enough that the parent is 100% responsible for the parenting of the child.

there's no requirement in society to be educated as a parent, to be educated about nutritional needs or emotional needs. Perhaps there needs to be that and in doing so, the amount of people who fear and resent and blossom into bad people doing bad things will be reduced.

Early childhood educators are a massive step towards this type of thinking and teaching in society. It is not a cost, it is an investment and it would be a dollar well spent to help any mother or father better know how to be a good mother or father.

Nothing will be resolved effectively with any quick fix thinking.

If we all look to ourselves as responsible for the happiness of those around us, or at least fully understand that we are a definite contributing factor I can pretty much guarantee you that there will be a positive change.

When you give up out of frustration, you still just gave up.

And I do understand that in the cases of the extremely broken, it takes even more effort.

We need stronger people in society providing positive roles. Be that stronger person to the people you can have a positive effect on.

[hskwarrior]

There is simply not enough of the village raising the child anymore.

This i agree totally with 100%. Where I grew up, the community knew you and your parents and would look out for you. Shame it stopped.

[David Jamieson]

This i agree totally with 100%. Where I grew up, the community knew you and your parents and would look out for you. Shame it stopped.

People don't even know who their neighbours are anymore it seems.
And when you say hi to a neighbour, sometimes they ignore you!

what a world we've made.

There is nothing done that can't be undone.

[hskwarrior]

I really do believe in PEACE. It sucks that this world has gone to SH1T :(

[David Jamieson]

I really do believe in PEACE. It sucks that this world has gone to SH1T :(

It hasn't. It is a difficult and daunting thing to rectify, but if we each work on ourselves then the world will become a better place.

if we resign ourselves to the mess, the mess wins and we get swallowed in it.

Keep sweeping! :p

[Lucas]

ive worked very hard to sow disorder and chaos, dont you guys go about trying to undo all my hard work and labour with your peace nonsense. :mad:

[David Jamieson]

*I've
*sew
*don't


:p

[Lucas]

huh? you sow chaos the way you sow seeds, you just have to watch the fruits of your labors blossom... but you can sew my socks up if you want. :P

and i could use proper punctuation, and grammar, but i dont want to on the internet. fug u guys

[Lucas]

bessidessss what kind of bringer o9f chaos would i be with orderly posts?

[David Jamieson]

My bad
http://www.showpigsatsunnybrook.com/images/sows/lg/14-1sow.jpg

[Lucas]

when life gives you lemons...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gLGOsirSkHc/TKEucDCtX_I/AAAAAAAANbs/9mGbavSqUMY/s1600/cooked+bacon.jpg

[IronFist]

I've never seen anyone take any flack for not smoking weed.

Potheads are usually cool, relaxed people who are cool with you whether you smoke or not :confused:

I've seen people teased for not drinking alcohol, but I've never seen it with weed.

Bizarre situation.

[Jimbo]

Physical bullying, as we all know, isn't all there is to it, esp. now. All the bullying that kids do now over the internet. They feel empowered by the anonymity of the keyboard. A lot of the bullies nowadays never even do it face-to-face with their victims anymore. It's chicken****, but people like that don't care. This is what I refer to as 'the culture of cowardice,' because these people know their chances of being held accountable are slim to none. And if the person can't handle the bullying and tragically commits suicide, the bullies don't feel responsible and most likely continue smirking and laughing about it online. Young or not, kids like that are simply worthless sociopaths. Period.

[uki]

i got picked on all the time in school - red hair, hearing aide, glasses, asthma, abusive step-da, you name it... i was the classic all-round bully target... examples, "what are you gonna do if a girl blows in your ear and your hearing aide whistles?", failed 12th grade twice for not going to gym class because i got picked on and pushed around by the football team(which was in my gym class), i got locked in a locker once, beat up at the bus stops... it wasn't until i started to not give a sh!t that i stopped getting bullied, yet this was a progressive move over a number of years from mid teens to mid 20's, during which time i walked 1000 miles on the appalachia trail and spent two years homeless on the streets of europe(where i got beat up some more - mostly by the police) and it wasn't until after i began martial arts that the real self confidence kicked into high gear... looking back on it all, what i have come to understand is that a bully only can be a bully if you allow yourself to be bullied... seems we(as a collective society) have shied away from the true notions of what self defense entails, our dignity, integrity, and honor... we don't teach our children to simply pop the bullies in the nose, it's called VIOLENCE or some nonsensical bullsh!t... self defense is not violence. all we have to teach our children is to say something like, "i don't believe it's nice that you speak to me like this or how you are treating me. respect me and leave me alone or i will end it right here." sometimes the ability to walk away is not an option - at some point in our lives we will have to confront our fears and we might aswell learn to confront them at an early age... that is my advice and yes of course i understand that fighting can and will lead to all kinds of legal trouble, but that's the difference right there, my honor and dignity is more important than what is not deemed "acceptable behaviour"... people simply have to stand up to a bully, be it with words or at times, with fists... being a doormat is a choice. :)

[uki]

http://viewsfromthecouch.com/2012/02/12/you-didnt-thank-me-for-punching-you-in-the-fac/

[Kung Fu God]

"Great" "Competing" Demo-worthy martial artists .... getting bullied:confused:

[Kung Fu God]

There will always be people of all ages applying pressure to others, to get them to follow along in their thinking or actions.

Training should instill self confidence and negate these temptations. A good martial artist should feel above average, non trained people. What the others do should not impact them.

.... of course, you can always ban these children from talking to others. Can't handle what others say. Instead of disciplining oneself, remove the temptation.

[Kung Fu God]

P All the bullying that kids do now over the internet. They feel empowered by the anonymity of the keyboard..

When I was little I learned a ryhm: "STicks and stones may break my bones but words can never hurt me."

Toughen up. Close the computer. Go outside and enjoy the day. Train Kung Fu.

[bawang]

kids need to learn to be strong. never show cowardice SHAMEFUR DISPRAY

[hskwarrior]

"Great" "Competing" Demo-worthy martial artists .... getting bullied

Hit it right on the money. RP is back.......:D

[bawang]

i would suggest you show your young students raw iraq war footage, or old chinese ling chi photos. it will give them strong.

kids must learn impotant lesson. only strong survive. the weak must perish.

[Yao Sing]

Cobra Kai !!!!!!!!!