Alan Orr Questions 5 Where is Tan, Bong Sau in Sparring

[Alan Orr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9mTuia70A&context=C318dc01ADOEgsToPDskKSbRxtRNOj81qDAdVKPxea

Question 5 in my Q & A series - Where is Tan, Bong Sau in Sparring

best Alan

[k gledhill]

The wu sao on the forehead, "Tomahawk" move.......:confused: seriously ?

[Yoshiyahu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9mTuia70A&context=C318dc01ADOEgsToPDskKSbRxtRNOj81qDAdVKPxea

Question 5 in my Q & A series - Where is Tan, Bong Sau in Sparring

best Alan

i think your brand of WC is more like Street Boxing...But its cool. I think a person really skilled at blocks would look similiar to what you are doing. Ne Way I see alot of compromise of WC techniques that have you using the covering as your main form of defense instead of bridging for control.

[Alan Orr]

i think your brand of WC is more like Street Boxing...But its cool. I think a person really skilled at blocks would look similiar to what you are doing. Ne Way I see alot of compromise of WC techniques that have you using the covering as your main form of defense instead of bridging for control.


What you see is your opinion and that is cool with me. But you don't understand the progression or full principle behind what we do. Of course we use bridging. Any time we touch we have a bridge, it just depends on who has control of it.

Compromise? not sure why you even think that. Street boxing - yes wing chun is hong kong street fighting right? or it used to be before people stopping fighting and made it into drills and demo's of fighting.

My main form of defence - I showed a small clip - its not the whole system or an answer to the problem. You hold on too hard. Also we are not blocking. We have 3 stages in controlling and defending hard pressure blocking is the last and its not a hand block as you may see it. More clips to come.

Why not post some of what you do under hard pressure and also post some hard sparring showing it?

[Alan Orr]

The wu sao on the forehead, "Tomahawk" move.......:confused: seriously ?

No its the foreman that takes the punch, this is only when you are too late to counter the heavy rear hand. It allows you to stop taking the punch in the nose and still see and counter as the foreman is angled. We have used this in Pro MMA as the top level and it works very well. The body must be rooted behind the arm so the power goes into the whole body.

If you miss your bridge and the punch heading for your nose what is next for you?

Many wing chun don't think about it as they don't train that hard or with guys that are really trying to land the strike on them. When you do you think a but deeper and answer more questions with your wing chun.

[k gledhill]

No its the foreman that takes the punch, this is only when you are too late to counter the heavy rear hand. It allows you to stop taking the punch in the nose and still see and counter as the foreman is angled. We have used this in Pro MMA as the top level and it works very well. The body must be rooted behind the arm so the power goes into the whole body.

If you miss your bridge and the punch heading for your nose what is next for you?

Many wing chun don't think about it as they don't train that hard or with guys that are really trying to land the strike on them. When you do you think a but deeper and answer more questions with your wing chun.

Good luck.

[Yoshiyahu]

correction....When I said blocks...i meant to qoute 52 blocks my bad...typing on the fly an miss some stuff...also what i meant by street boxing is basic techniques boxers use in the streets...I didnt mean street fighting...thats a whole nother animal all together...Im not saying what you do is bad or wrong. Just its like complete foreign to wing chun in my opinion. The principles may be similar but the excution of those principles is done as Hendrik would say from a different engine. The engine and vehicle you use to apply the WC principles is different than street fighting wing chun...


You are right...thats a great idea about posting...I will soon one day been thinking about it...


I know the way i intrepret wing chun most westerners on the forums will disagree because its not what their use too...



What you see is your opinion and that is cool with me. But you don't understand the progression or full principle behind what we do. Of course we use bridging. Any time we touch we have a bridge, it just depends on who has control of it.

Compromise? not sure why you even think that. Street boxing - yes wing chun is hong kong street fighting right? or it used to be before people stopping fighting and made it into drills and demo's of fighting.

My main form of defence - I showed a small clip - its not the whole system or an answer to the problem. You hold on too hard. Also we are not blocking. We have 3 stages in controlling and defending hard pressure blocking is the last and its not a hand block as you may see it. More clips to come.

Why not post some of what you do under hard pressure and also post some hard sparring showing it?

[Yoshiyahu]

No its the foreman that takes the punch, this is only when you are too late to counter the heavy rear hand. It allows you to stop taking the punch in the nose and still see and counter as the foreman is angled. We have used this in Pro MMA as the top level and it works very well. The body must be rooted behind the arm so the power goes into the whole body.

If you miss your bridge and the punch heading for your nose what is next for you?

Many wing chun don't think about it as they don't train that hard or with guys that are really trying to land the strike on them. When you do you think a but deeper and answer more questions with your wing chun.

We also utilize cover hands...but not like your doing per se. But we do utilize cover hands. Its cool though Good stuff as way of fighting...just disagree with trying to use cover hands as your first result unless your rushing in on a opponent who is throwing random punches with out proper technique.

[Alan Orr]

correction....When I said blocks...i meant to qoute 52 blocks my bad...typing on the fly an miss some stuff...also what i meant by street boxing is basic techniques boxers use in the streets...I didnt mean street fighting...thats a whole nother animal all together...Im not saying what you do is bad or wrong. Just its like complete foreign to wing chun in my opinion. The principles may be similar but the excution of those principles is done as Hendrik would say from a different engine. The engine and vehicle you use to apply the WC principles is different than street fighting wing chun...


You are right...thats a great idea about posting...I will soon one day been thinking about it...


I know the way i intrepret wing chun most westerners on the forums will disagree because its not what their use too...


Yes I agree, my wing chun is different. But in terms of street fighting - What I am showing works in both, but on the street I have more tools as well. These are very small clips, so again don't hang on what I say it all depends on many things.

[Alan Orr]

We also utilize cover hands...but not like your doing per se. But we do utilize cover hands. Its cool though Good stuff as way of fighting...just disagree with trying to use cover hands as your first result unless your rushing in on a opponent who is throwing random punches with out proper technique.

Again you are talking as if I said that's what I do all the time. We don't just cover as our first call, also we are not just covering anyway. Nothing is so simple.

The clips are to give an idea of a different way of looking at application.

[Alan Orr]

Good luck.

The more I train the more luck I seem to have. But thank you anyway.

[k gledhill]

The more I train the more luck I seem to have. But thank you anyway.

Likewise....;)

[Phil Redmond]

The wu sao on the forehead, "Tomahawk" move.......:confused: seriously ?
Wu Sao means guarding/protecting hand. You can "protect" high/low. The strike was at his head so he "protected". You can't write a novel if you use the alphabet from A-Z sequence. You have to mix the letters up. Likewise, you can't expect a live fight to have perfect hand positions like in the forms.

[k gledhill]

Wu Sao means guarding/protecting hand. You can "protect" high/low. The strike was at his head so he "protected". You can't write a novel if you use the alphabet from A-Z sequence. You have to mix the letters up. Likewise, you can't expect a live fight to have perfect hand positions like in the forms.

Translating wu ? Wu sao is a new attack with a specific position for a reason . its useless at the forehead :D
Like a soccer goalie going back into the goal as a shot is made. He runs backwards into goal :D

Its not just the fact that its wrong, its going the wrong way, backwards, it goes forwards to attack from its positions....

It intercepts as a fundamental action by design mindlessly.

He did it in a DEMO not a live fight ;)

Positions tactics techniques ?

[Alan Orr]

Translating wu ? Wu sao is a new attack with a specific position for a reason . its useless at the forehead :D
Like a soccer goalie going back into the goal as a shot is made. He runs backwards into goal :D

Its not just the fact that its wrong, its going the wrong way, backwards, it goes forwards to attack from its positions....

It intercepts as a fundamental action by design mindlessly.

He did it in a DEMO not a live fight ;)

Positions tactics techniques ?



How can you tell me what I am doing is wrong? The system of wing chun I teach is CSL Wing Chun. Is not the method that you know or understand. Wu can be used in many ways and any direction. We do not limit it in the way you are talking. Once you have the correct principle within the structure of the system then you can apply the concept. In my mind you have it the wrong way around.

Demo yes to show an idea. Demo with Pro fighters that use what I show all the time. Thats why we know what we show works. Its all been tested with fighters. I have just had one of my guys win Kickboxing title a few weeks ago!

[Alan Orr]

Wu Sao means guarding/protecting hand. You can "protect" high/low. The strike was at his head so he "protected". You can't write a novel if you use the alphabet from A-Z sequence. You have to mix the letters up. Likewise, you can't expect a live fight to have perfect hand positions like in the forms.


Phil, I agree 100%

[Alan Orr]

http://www.fightstartv.com/videos/pete-irving-vs-timo-seidel-kickboxing/

Red shorts

This is my guy Pete in action a few ago.

[GlennR]

http://www.fightstartv.com/videos/pete-irving-vs-timo-seidel-kickboxing/

Red shorts

This is my guy Pete in action a few ago.

Days, weeks, months??

Says he's from the Semtex gym Alan, does he cross train with you guys?

[Alan Orr]

Days, weeks, months??

Says he's from the Semtex gym Alan, does he cross train with you guys?

sorry weeks ago

Pete has been training with me for the last 2 years and on and off before that. You can see him controlling the fight with his structural power and using cutting punching and many of the things I teach.

Pete now works at Semtex and teaches MMA at their gym, so he is now also part of their team as well as the Iron Wolves (my team). Semtex is an excellent gym with lots of fighters for Pete to teach.

Pete is one of my main sparring partners now days as well.

I keep forgetting to get an Iron Wolves patch!

[GlennR]

sorry weeks ago

Pete has been training with me for the last 2 years and on and off before that. You can see him controlling the fight with his structural power and using cutting punching and many of the things I teach.

Pete now works at Semtex and teaches MMA at their gym, so he is now also part of their team as well as the Iron Wolves (my team). Semtex is an excellent gym with lots of fighters for Pete to teach.

Pete is one of my main sparring partners now days as well.

I keep forgetting to get an Iron Wolves patch!

Thanks Alan
Yes, you can see him "imposing" his structure on the other guy... nicely done

[trubblman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9mTuia70A&context=C318dc01ADOEgsToPDskKSbRxtRNOj81qDAdVKPxea

Question 5 in my Q & A series - Where is Tan, Bong Sau in Sparring

best Alan

Bru, it seems like you are reinventing the wheel. Notice the following clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zs_rbnVHVI&feature=fvsr) - Filipino Panantukan. And Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3x4Vq1ZDpA&feature=related) Why try to invent a solution when one already exists?

[Alan Orr]

Bru, it seems like you are reinventing the wheel. Notice the following clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zs_rbnVHVI&feature=fvsr) - Filipino Panantukan. And Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3x4Vq1ZDpA&feature=related) Why try to invent a solution when one already exists?

This nothing like what we do. What we do is about the body structure not so much the hand positions as such. I will post some clips about that later.

[Alan Orr]

Thanks Alan
Yes, you can see him "imposing" his structure on the other guy... nicely done

Thanks, he did a great job. This was the week after winning UK1 Belt as well!

Pics from win the week before

http://combatartsathleticassocation.blogspot.com/

[trubblman]

This nothing like what we do. What we do is about the body structure not so much the hand positions as such. I will post some clips about that later.

Actually it resembles somewhat of what Dan Inosanto is doing but he is more fluid. I see you mention structure but it's one of those words like centerline that everyone uses in wing chun but its meaning varies from lineage to lineage and even person to person. What i see is your partner standing still and allowing you to press him.

[Alan Orr]

Actually it resembles somewhat of what Dan Inosanto is doing but he is more fluid. I see you mention structure but it's one of those words like center line that everyone uses in wing chun but its meaning varies from lineage to lineage and even person to person.

Yes of course. That's why I will do come clips to show the difference. We use our body weight rather than just the arm movement to control and redirect the blow.

[Yoshiyahu]

I meant street boxing...not really street fighting. In my opinion there is a discernable difference.

But if it works for you have at it...I just see that the Way you wu, tan and bong goes out of the structure. Because The WC structure is different than the way your presenting. The way your guarding or utilizing the WC principles is a different egine to me...you utilize more of the boxing body structure...its an inclose boxing structure but not really wing chun in my opinion...But if it works for you have at it...


Yes I agree, my wing chun is different. But in terms of street fighting - What I am showing works in both, but on the street I have more tools as well. These are very small clips, so again don't hang on what I say it all depends on many things.


Again you are talking as if I said that's what I do all the time. We don't just cover as our first call, also we are not just covering anyway. Nothing is so simple.

The clips are to give an idea of a different way of looking at application.

[Alan Orr]

I meant street boxing...not really street fighting. In my opinion there is a discernable difference.

But if it works for you have at it...I just see that the Way you wu, tan and bong goes out of the structure. Because The WC structure is different than the way your presenting. The way your guarding or utilizing the WC principles is a different egine to me...you utilize more of the boxing body structure...its an inclose boxing structure but not really wing chun in my opinion...But if it works for you have at it...

This is your opinion then all cool. But this is wing chun as I have been training wing chun 25 years. CSL Wing Chun is a complete system. This is our Wing Chun Chinese Boxing. Wing Chun is a Boxing art. Chinese Boxing. I train lots o fighters and many of them had normal boxing training, what I teach is very different.

[Yoshiyahu]

This is your opinion then all cool. But this is wing chun as I have been training wing chun 25 years. CSL Wing Chun is a complete system. This is our Wing Chun Chinese Boxing. Wing Chun is a Boxing art. Chinese Boxing. I train lots o fighters and many of them had normal boxing training, what I teach is very different.

Okay thanks for sharing...Again if it works for you i cant take nothing away from you...i just think the structure is a little foriegn to me compared to most Yip man WC or other styles I have seen...But its all good...

in fighting it doesnt matter if your Wing Chun or Ving Tsun or how good you look,...The only thing that matters in fighting is winning and surviving!