By using the modern gym equipments to "enhance" our throwing skill

[YouKnowWho]

I'm thinking about to make a DVD that introduce how to use the modern gym equipments to "ehnance (not develop)" our throwing skill.

We all know that we can go to gym to build up our muscle and endurance. Most of the time when we are in our gym, we are not thinking about our combat skill "enhancement". Sometime I even feel a bit guilty by spending time to work in the gym than to work on my combat skill.

It's better to "kill 2 birds with 1 stone" that we can develop big muscle, endurance, and also enhance our combat skill at the same time.

I'll bring my cell phone to my gym next time to record some drills. It sounds like a good idea to me.

Do you think the same approach can also be applied to the striking art as well? What's your opinion on this?

[mickey]

YouKnowWho,

You are a pretty amazing guy.

Last year, I was going to send you a closed end resistance band (not the kind or brand I reviewed), to see if you would like it for belt cracking exercises. I think you may have already done that. To continue to think of better ways to train and get a better result is the hallmark of a serious kung fu practitioner. Keep on going.


mickey

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm thinking about to make a DVD that introduce how to use the modern gym equipments to "ehnance (not develop)" our throwing skill.

We all know that we can go to gym to build up our muscle and endurance. Most of the time when we are in our gym, we are not thinking about our combat skill "enhancement". Sometime I even feel a bit guilty by spending time to work in the gym than to work on my combat skill.

It's better to "kill 2 birds with 1 stone" that we can develop big muscle, endurance, and also enhance our combat skill at the same time.

I'll bring my cell phone to my gym next time to record some drills. It sounds like a good idea to me.

Do you think the same approach can also be applied to the striking art as well? What's your opinion on this?


Well...I am old school about this:
Develop strength in general terms ( stronger muscles) and then develop the skill to apply that strength with "sport specific" drills.

[YouKnowWho]

Well...I am old school about this:
Develop strength in general terms ( stronger muscles) and then develop the skill to apply that strength with "sport specific" drills.

I go to 24 hours fitness center 3 times a week. I did just like you do most of the time. Bench press, leg press, ... I have a good set of TCMA training equpiments at home. I could just work out at home and not go to gym at all. Because my wife want to lose weight, I have to go to gym with her. I always have that "guilty" feeling as if I had spent my time in the wrong priority. Even today I still can't make up my mind whether I should replace my 4 miles running with low stance walking. Our time is limited. If we spend it in one area, we will spend less time in other areas. I have given up my weapon training, solo forms training just because I think I can use my time in more effeciency way.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I go to 24 hours fitness center 3 times a week. I did just like you do most of the time. Bench press, leg press, ... I have a good set of TCMA training equpiments at home. I could just work out at home and not go to gym at all. Because my wife want to lose weight, I have to go to gym with her. I always have that "guilty" feeling as if I had spent my time in the wrong priority. Even today I still can't make up my mind whether I should replace my 4 miles running with low stance walking. Our time is limited. If we spend it in one area, we will spend less time in other areas. I have given up my weapon training, solo forms training just because I think I can use my time in more effeciency way.

Well...chances are that you will need general strength and fitness in your day-to-day more than you need "martial specific" strength and fitness.
Being able to carry something heavy a flight of stairs is probably far more practical than being able to do a horse stance for 30 min.

[YouKnowWho]

resistance band (not the kind or brand I reviewed), to see if you would like it for belt cracking exercises.

I have tried my belt cracking by using Karate belt, lether belt, and steel chain. I have not yet tried the resistence band yet. I think by using the resistence band may be hard to develop explosive power. It just doesn't give the "sudden resistence" as the steel chain does.

[SPJ]

I am sort of home school instead of gym school.

I have my own bench (reebok) and dumb and bar bells (reebok).

I have everlast punching bag.

I have a 70 # throwing dummie.

---

However, it is always nice to know some "equipment" training at home or gym equivalent.

--

:)

[IronFist]

Well...I am old school about this:
Develop strength in general terms ( stronger muscles) and then develop the skill to apply that strength with "sport specific" drills.

That may be old school, but it's also correct :D

[RenDaHai]

In my experience muscle is highly function specific.

It works in the way you built it to work. At doing the actions you used to build it.

So I think its a great idea. If you can build strength through the motions that you will then use in combat, then that trumps building strength through other movements.

Gymnasts are good examples of this.

[bawang]

i dont know what you mean by "modern".

bicep curls, deadlifts and squats are all part of traditional kung fu training.

[David Jamieson]

i dont know what you mean by "modern".

bicep curls, deadlifts and squats are all part of traditional kung fu training.

Compound lifting and task specific lifting is better than standard body building routines.

Mind you, strength building and body building are different routines anyway.

[Brule]

I don't know, tossing gym equipment around sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Even if you do it at home. ie: having weights on one end of the bar and practising your leg reaping skill.

[sanjuro_ronin]

In my experience muscle is highly function specific.

It works in the way you built it to work. At doing the actions you used to build it.

So I think its a great idea. If you can build strength through the motions that you will then use in combat, then that trumps building strength through other movements.

Gymnasts are good examples of this.

Actually, strength is probably the least task specific atrribute you can build.
Someone who can deadlift 300lbs will be able to lift something heavy, regardless of the specific task.
Curling a 80lbs DB or 80lbs bucket of rocks is the same thing for the bicep muscle.

[YouKnowWho]

I don't know, tossing gym equipment around sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Even if you do it at home. ie: having weights on one end of the bar and practising your leg reaping skill.

Of course, there is no gym that will allow you to do that. I'm mainly talking about the weight pulley, leg curve machine, ...

somethink like this:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9546/weightpulley4.jpg

vs. something like this:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7906/weightpulley5.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

Of course, there is no gym that will allow you to do that. I'm mainly talking about the weight pulley, leg curve machine, ...

somethink like this:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9546/weightpulley4.jpg

vs. something like this:

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7906/weightpulley5.jpg

Lots of sports MA guys are doing that stuff, for their core as much as for strengthening the muscles that are "specific" to a certain movement.

[YouKnowWho]

for their core ...

That's exactly what I'm interested in.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That's exactly what I'm interested in.

There is a clip of Stallone doing a similar version on youtube.

[Frost]

Best core exercise every invented by man
The back squat
Second best deadlift
If you can squat and deadlift over 400 pounds your core will be strong enough for whatever task you want to do including dumping someone on their head

[sanjuro_ronin]

Best core exercise every invented by man
The back squat
Second best deadlift
If you can squat and deadlift over 400 pounds your core will be strong enough for whatever task you want to do including dumping someone on their head

Frost has crotch smacked the correct.

[JamesC]

Best core exercise every invented by man
The back squat
Second best deadlift
If you can squat and deadlift over 400 pounds your core will be strong enough for whatever task you want to do including dumping someone on their head

This^

Also, sport-specific weight training is a gimmick.

[SavvySavage]

Best core exercise every invented by man
The back squat
Second best deadlift
If you can squat and deadlift over 400 pounds your core will be strong enough for whatever task you want to do including dumping someone on their head

I would also add that of you can hold an L-sit for a few minutes your core will also be strong enough to handle whatever activity you're trying to do.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I would also add that of you can hold an L-sit for a few minutes your core will also be strong enough to handle whatever activity you're trying to do.

L-sit?
https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTRI1U5DBN8SQsGk19Lmzx_i4fWQAjki t7w6vzAMuIlW3bTQyFBgQ

[SavvySavage]

L-sit?
https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTRI1U5DBN8SQsGk19Lmzx_i4fWQAjki t7w6vzAMuIlW3bTQyFBgQ

That would be it.

[GeneChing]

See Master Charng's Shuai Chiao - Training Methods By Gigi Oh with me in our 2006 January/February issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=632) and Only the Strong By Chris Friedman in our 2009 September/October issue (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=830) for some traditional methods. Many of these could be easily adapted for use with modern gym equipment.

[YouKnowWho]

Well...I am old school about this:
Develop strength in general terms ( stronger muscles) and then develop the skill to apply that strength with "sport specific" drills.

It depends on what kind of strength that you want to develop. A body builder who can care less about MA can do anything he wants. If you are a TCMA guys, your strength training may be different from any body builder.

I believe we should push or pull on weight in fast speed. Can I bench press 50 lb with fast speed? Of course I can. Can I bench press 300 lb with fast speed? Even if I can, I may hurt my muscle badly. I have torn my muscle from heavy weight training by moving in fast speed before.

IMO, a TCMA's weight training goal should be more than just "strong muscle". Since speed does not work well with heavy weight, we have to pick up the right amount weight so we can achieve the maximum speed during weight training.

[wenshu]

Best core exercise every invented by man
The back squat
Second best deadlift
If you can squat and deadlift over 400 pounds your core will be strong enough for whatever task you want to do including dumping someone on their head

Dead lifts cure cancer and ovarian cysts. TRUE FACT.

This Joseph Kony nonsense would've been squashed a long time ago if Uganda would just get off it's fat ass and do some god****ed back squats. REAL TALK.



Also, sport-specific weight training is a gimmick.

I think of it as more of a fad. You know what else is a fad?

The notion that power lifting is the end all be all and the only training you'll ever need.

Mind you I think that the big 3 are indispensable and I have tremendous respect for Oly. Provided the time and access to equipment I would put in work more often. But its not everything, not by a long shot.

Swinging the pendulum so far to the other extreme to say that only weight lifting in a specific narrowly defined protocol is the only effective method is just as bad as the people this argument is ostensibly trying to distance itself from; the muscle is bad, weight training makes you slow, inhibits cheee, pajama wearing watered down psuedo mystical gobbledygook.

I think what happens most often is people train a certain way and for whatever reason they feel the need to justify their focus by denigrating anything else as useless merely because they lack the time, resources, energy or inclination to implement it with no regard for potential benefits or results.

[Frost]

Dead lifts cure cancer and ovarian cysts. TRUE FACT.

This Joseph Kony nonsense would've been squashed a long time ago if Uganda would just get off it's fat ass and do some god****ed back squats. REAL TALK.



I think of it as more of a fad. You know what else is a fad?

The notion that power lifting is the end all be all and the only training you'll ever need.

Mind you I think that the big 3 are indispensable and I have tremendous respect for Oly. Provided the time and access to equipment I would put in work more often. But its not everything, not by a long shot.

Swinging the pendulum so far to the other extreme to say that only weight lifting in a specific narrowly defined protocol is the only effective method is just as bad as the people this argument is ostensibly trying to distance itself from; the muscle is bad, weight training makes you slow, inhibits cheee, pajama wearing watered down psuedo mystical gobbledygook.

I think what happens most often is people train a certain way and for whatever reason they feel the need to justify their focus by denigrating anything else as useless merely because they lack the time, resources, energy or inclination to implement it with no regard for potential benefits or results.


Nope not really, if you want to get strong then the big three are really all you need, and please show where anyone here has said the powerlifts are all you need if you are a fighter? (or are you making a strawman to have an argument no one has started?)
What we are saying is that the best most time efficient way to strength train for your sport is powerlifting alongside energy system work and explosive work
And you are really simplifying things, most here have tried OL lifting, tried sports specific training and functional training, researched all of them and come to the conclusions we have based on real experience
And if you can think of a better more time efficient exercise for the core than the squat or the deadlift please share it with us reather than just posting rants on the way people view things?

[JamesC]

Dead lifts cure cancer and ovarian cysts. TRUE FACT.

This Joseph Kony nonsense would've been squashed a long time ago if Uganda would just get off it's fat ass and do some god****ed back squats. REAL TALK.



I think of it as more of a fad. You know what else is a fad?

The notion that power lifting is the end all be all and the only training you'll ever need.

Mind you I think that the big 3 are indispensable and I have tremendous respect for Oly. Provided the time and access to equipment I would put in work more often. But its not everything, not by a long shot.

Swinging the pendulum so far to the other extreme to say that only weight lifting in a specific narrowly defined protocol is the only effective method is just as bad as the people this argument is ostensibly trying to distance itself from; the muscle is bad, weight training makes you slow, inhibits cheee, pajama wearing watered down psuedo mystical gobbledygook.

I think what happens most often is people train a certain way and for whatever reason they feel the need to justify their focus by denigrating anything else as useless merely because they lack the time, resources, energy or inclination to implement it with no regard for potential benefits or results.

You can read into my statement as much as you'd like. I'm not really big on internet arguments.

My statement was that sport-specific weightlifting is a gimmick. And it is. Every good weightlifting program includes squats, bench, and deadlift(hopefully standing press too) as their core lifts with everything else being supplemental/accessory.

That isn't the same thing as people showing up to do nothing except standing chest press machines that mimmick punching and doing "combat-ropes" for 10 rounds.

These type of exercises DO have their place, but only as accessory/supplemental because of the lack of carryover that the big lifts have. That's all i'm saying.

Also, would just like the point out that I consider gymnasts the epitome of athletes.

[sanjuro_ronin]

It depends on what kind of strength that you want to develop. A body builder who can care less about MA can do anything he wants. If you are a TCMA guys, your strength training may be different from any body builder.

I believe we should push or pull on weight in fast speed. Can I bench press 50 lb with fast speed? Of course I can. Can I bench press 300 lb with fast speed? Even if I can, I may hurt my muscle badly. I have torn my muscle from heavy weight training by moving in fast speed before.

IMO, a TCMA's weight training goal should be more than just "strong muscle". Since speed does not work well with heavy weight, we have to pick up the right amount weight so we can achieve the maximum speed during weight training.

When we are using heavy weights, speed is a MUST, but because the weight is heavy it will NOT move fast.
You can't NOT move a close to maximal weight without speed.
When people get injured is when they combine heavy weights and bad form/technique.

[Frost]

When we are using heavy weights, speed is a MUST, but because the weight is heavy it will NOT move fast.
You can't NOT move a close to maximal weight without speed.
When people get injured is when they combine heavy weights and bad form/technique.

maximum speed comes from about 60% of your one rep max, granted some lifters are more explosive than they are strong so for them the number will be higher, but as Ronin says if your not strong you will not be fast

of course we could discuss starting strength
speed strength
strength speed etc

but typically if you are looking to throw someone fast you had sure as hell bettter be able to lift close to twice their body weight or you are going to be in trouble

[wenshu]

Nope not really, if you want to get strong then the big three are really all you need, and please show where anyone here has said the powerlifts are all you need if you are a fighter? (or are you making a strawman to have an argument no one has started?)
What we are saying is that the best most time efficient way to strength train for your sport is powerlifting alongside energy system work and explosive work
And you are really simplifying things, most here have tried OL lifting, tried sports specific training and functional training, researched all of them and come to the conclusions we have based on real experience
And if you can think of a better more time efficient exercise for the core than the squat or the deadlift please share it with us reather than just posting rants on the way people view things?

It is a little bit of hyperbole to say that the DL and BS are the greatest core exercises.

To say they are the best exercises for core strength disregards the fact that DL and BS are primarily posterior chain dominated. The hip drive offers some anterior activation (quads and abs) but that is secondary. For core strength nothing is going to beat focused eccentric and concentric anterior chain work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKMnv7eEsnQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=208gsUy9S-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwJ80DDIeNE



These type of exercises DO have their place, but only as accessory/supplemental because of the lack of carryover that the big lifts have. That's all i'm saying.



I wasn't really trying to imply that you or frost fall into that category of people of who have run to one extreme view or the other with my rant; this topic in general is just representative of a certain fashionable view that the only way to get strong is to lift heavy and that's patently not true. Or the idea that maximal strength outside of competitive powerlifting is even necessary in the first place. It is one of the greatest ways to get strong but not the only way. Maximal strength is a great goal and an impressive accomplishment but it won't save anybody.

Anyways, frost and james, my apologies for coming off like a jerk.