Matter of Range

[Jubei1]

After training last night I started talking with one of my sihings about fighting ranges. Coming from a MT and BJJ background I have the belief that there are multiple ranges in a fighting situation: Kicking, punching, elbow/knee, clinching/grappling. His view point is there is only one range – "contact range".
He correctly states that there is no fight without contact. His response has me thinking and I would like to get other view points on the subject.
Opinions Gentlemen?

[kung fu fighter]

His view point is there is only one range – "contact range".

I think he means if you are in range to hit me then i am in range to hit you, therefore if you enter within that range i attack first instead of allowing the opponent to dictate the range. But it would be nice to get other people's opinion on what this statement means to them.

[Paul T England]

Yes there is only one range as far as your opponent can hit you or not.

To me the ranges are more to help with attack and defence and which weapons are available.

2 sides of the same coin,,,,ranges are useful but then you can kick from the ground, punch at close or long range. Flying Knees etc.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[Eric_H]

Krav Maga apparently has 4 ranges of combat which are similar to what you describe. (Long Kicking, long striking, Standup Grappling/short strikes, Ground).

TWC has 5 stages of combat (http://www.cheungswingchun.ashop.com.au/g/932/5-stages-of-combat-in-wing-chun.html)

Some arts use the tools to define the range, some use measurements from center to center. Different ideas of range defines the tools rather than tools define the range.

[Wayfaring]

Standard MMA description of range includes: free movement, clinch, and ground.

[YouKnowWho]

His view point is there is only one range – "contact range".
I think that's from his point of view. If he is a

- strilker, the contact range is the striking range.
- grappler, the contact range is the clinching range.

The problem is, if your opponent has higher skill level than you do, he may be able to control his favor range bettter than you. To put all your eggs in one basket may not be the smartest thing to do.

[m1k3]

For me when I grappled if I could reach out and touch my opponent I was close enough to shoot or for him to shoot on me. So IMO grappling range is when I can touch my opponent.

[YouKnowWho]

For me when I grappled if I could reach out and touch my opponent I was close enough to shoot or for him to shoot on me. So IMO grappling range is when I can touch my opponent.

This is why a grappler's fighting stance is different from a striker's fighting stance. You put your hands much further forward and try to touch your opponent's hands. You may lose potential to strike since your arms are almost straight already, but you can also prevent your opponent from striking at early stage. His striking hand has to pass your hands frist, and your hands can stop him much earlier before his striking power is even generated. It's much easier to deflect a weak punch than a powerful punch

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8081/changfightingposture.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

Only two ranges:
Contact and non-contact ( too far to make any type contact without telegraphing)
I know guys that can kick from "clinch range" and guys that can take you down from "kicking range".

[Chadderz]

After training last night I started talking with one of my sihings about fighting ranges. Coming from a MT and BJJ background I have the belief that there are multiple ranges in a fighting situation: Kicking, punching, elbow/knee, clinching/grappling. His view point is there is only one range – "contact range".
He correctly states that there is no fight without contact. His response has me thinking and I would like to get other view points on the subject.
Opinions Gentlemen?

I agree with your ranges of combat to be honest.

To say there is only one range is kinda like saying "You can only eat Pasta or not eat Pasta, no other foods exist."

[Yoshiyahu]

Yes I have to say there are more than one range!

Ranges I adhere too!
1.Kicking
2.Punching
3.Knees
4.Elbow

When doing stand up Im mindful of what range im at. So i can imploy what techniques work best at that range. if your too close to punch you need to throw elbows and knees. if your too close to kick effectively then you need to adapt to what range your in.

But as for contact range. I would say anything outside of kicking range is non-contact range. From that range you can feint as you bridge the gap. But once the gap is bridge an you have contact. You have to realize you cant normally throw a side kick from chi sau range with out loosing some contact. chi sau range is stand up grappline range in my opinion. With in chi sau range you can kick, punch and knee and elbow. Because there are different ranges with in chi sau too. But you can can kick outside of chi sau range as well as punch.

[Vajramusti]

Only two ranges:
Contact and non-contact ( too far to make any type contact without telegraphing)
I know guys that can kick from "clinch range" and guys that can take you down from "kicking range".
---------------------------

Correct!

joy chaudhuri

[Yoshiyahu]

---------------------------

Correct!

joy chaudhuri

yea i seen some tae kwon do guys who could throw an ax kick from inclose with in chi sau range so yea your right..but that takes extreme agility and flexibility to do it.

[anerlich]

This is why a grappler's fighting stance is different from a striker's fighting stance. You put your hands much further forward and try to touch your opponent's hands.

I disagree. You want to keep your elbows in. Stick out a hand, you're offering grips to the other guy (though you can bait this way but you'd better be good)

Arms away from the body, you make it easy for him to get arm drags, duckunders, underhooks and other clinches. Stick out both arms, get ready for a leg shoot.

In grappling, you're strong when your arms are close to your body, weak when they are extended.

[Lee Chiang Po]

yea i seen some tae kwon do guys who could throw an ax kick from inclose with in chi sau range so yea your right..but that takes extreme agility and flexibility to do it.

I don't know what an axe kick is, but I will always kick when in chi sao range. It will open lots of upper gate options.

[Vajramusti]

I don't know what an axe kick is, but I will always kick when in chi sao range. It will open lots of upper gate options.
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An axe kick usually involves lifting a leg straight up and then coming crashing down on the head or between neck and shoulder. If you"always" kick as you say--that is being predictable!

joy chaudhuri

[k gledhill]

VT cuts into ranges of attacks intercepting them as they are made. We cut the way.

[YouKnowWho]

I disagree. You want to keep your elbows in. Stick out a hand, you're offering grips to the other guy (though you can bait this way but you'd better be good)

Arms away from the body, you make it easy for him to get arm drags, duckunders, underhooks and other clinches. Stick out both arms, get ready for a leg shoot.

In grappling, you're strong when your arms are close to your body, weak when they are extended.
If you always worry about fish may swallow your bait, you should not go fishing.

If you can fight in your opponent's territory, you don't want to fight in your own territory. In Chinese wrestling, this posture is called 黄瓜架(Huang Gua Jia). It's used commonly in the Chinese wrestling. It has been tested over 1,000 years in Chinese history.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8081/changfightingposture.jpg

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/479/changcucumbervine.jpg

http://youtu.be/Nx0eNuiphWE

http://youtu.be/iY4I9cOurA0

[anerlich]

If you can fight in your opponent's territory, you don't want to fight in your own territory. In Chinese wrestling, this posture is called 黄瓜架(Huang Gua Jia). It's used commonly in the Chinese wrestling. It has been tested over 1,000 years in Chinese history.


Wrestling's about 7,000 or 17,000 years old depending who you talk to, so I think I'll stay clear of this inexperienced system, thanks all the same.

You want to wrestle with your arms stuck out, go for it, just don't pick a match with anyone who knows what they are doing.

It's just like chasing hands in Wing Chun. Bad idea.