Traditional Guan Dao form

[DCB]

Hey guys,

Has anyone come across any videos of traditional Shaolin Guan Dao forms? Most of the stuff I've found is just modern wushu or performance forms.

I've always wanted to learn the Guan Dao but I want to learn something traditional rather than something just for show. Perhaps some one knows of a master in the UK that teaches such traditional forms?

Thanks

[David Jamieson]

Hung Gar and Choy Li Fut both have this classical weapon. If you find a Sifu of those, you are that much closer to learning the weapon form.

[kfman5F]

Here's footage of Ark Wong doing a Guan Dao form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq2zlqCJQR0&feature=related

[Ben Gash]

Aside from myself I know several UK teachers who do it. Where are you and what's your background?

[Shaolin Rasta]

DCB, at the risk of drawing fire from the staunch traditionalists, I would say maybe you should take another look at some of the routines that you call "performance". I mean, what do you want? Actual combat with guan dao is, uh, not common know what I mean? I find that people complain about the movements that are actually quite athletic, advanced and dynamic because, well, maybe they are sorta "hating" because they don't have the ability(or think they don't) to do them. Don't be afraid. Of course some people are really into preserving the traditional and that I can appreciate. It should be preserved and practiced, but don't be mad because the game is elevated in this era. Just like in basketball, the Bob Cousy set shot might be "traditional", but it just ain't happennin' no more, know what I mean?
That said here are a couple of vids that I think are pretty good. Don't know how "traditional" they are, but the guys doing them are bona fide in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWdOTwNhxyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=speOiJ3hR-g


Now compare them to the vid with Ark Wong. No disrespect, but that aint too impressive in my opinion. Ok guys, fire away, I'm outta here!

[Ben Gash]

Those are traditional forms :confused: Big difference is that the first guy has a stupidly light weapon, so can move more quickly, and both are 40 years younger than Ark Wong in that video :rolleyes:

[DCB]

That said here are a couple of vids that I think are pretty good. Don't know how "traditional" they are, but the guys doing them are bona fide in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWdOTwNhxyk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=speOiJ3hR-g



I've seen that first one before, but the second one is new to me, thanks. Don't get me wrong I know the Guan Dao isn't exactly a pracatical weapon for self defence, but let's be honest how many of us have learnt to use swords? We're not likely to use them to defend ourselves any time soon.

I'm not against performance forms by any means, they certainly look good, which is what they are meant to do, and I've learnt some in my time. My main interest is forms and their applications, so I am looking for things which have been developed with actual fighting application in mind, rather than a series of moves put together to look good. This is what I mean by traditional, I'm under no illusion that the forms I know are exactly the same as when they were first developed, of course things change, it's the intent and heritage that's the key issue for me here.


Aside from myself I know several UK teachers who do it. Where are you and what's your background?

I live on the south coast and have been training in Shaolin for about 3.5 years.

[Ben Gash]

South coast's a bit broad. There's various White Crane groups in Brighton who'll do it, Fighting Lions and Kixx in Kent, Alan Tinnion in Bournemouth, Zheng Dao Lo in Portsmouth etc. Most'll want you to train for a fair while before learning it though.

[bawang]

the da dao is a heavy weapon; it is simlpe to use and there are no techniques. real da dao has about 5 basic attacks, all on horseback.

[David Jamieson]

the da dao is a heavy weapon; it is simlpe to use and there are no techniques. real da dao has about 5 basic attacks, all on horseback.

? whatchoos talking about willis.

Kwan Dao is not a sword, it's a Halberd. Big Knife on a pole with a spike on the other end.

It would be not very useful from horseback except for maybe one or two things.

Otherwise, it can use all the techniques associated with the use of a pole axe, halberd or polearm of some sort.

Also, it is an antiquated weapon and pretty much useless in modern combat, so approach it as a lesson in posterity and preservation, but not a lesson in valuable or important combat training.

Last of all, all of the videos show the use of an inadequate weapon for the actual application. Even Ark Wong is using a light version of the weapon to give the demonstration.

To that end, this weapon is "dead". It is fun to learn, but remember that while it is fun to learn, it is as meaningful in this day and age as any anachronistic practice, like trebuchet firing or the use of claymores and spears etc. :)

the techniques are simply.

-Falling cut
-twist and pull
-throw and thrust
-intercept and stab
-behind the back cut
-continual lift and cut
-press forward thrusting

and others.

This expression of it uses a more appropriately weighted Kwan Do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofd0rgLtWIo

[bawang]

guan dao is exclusively a battlefield weapon and calvary weapon, man. its not supposed to be used on foot. the forms on foot are done for entertainment.

the techniques are simply

-couched lance stance
-side sweep
- upward sweep
- stabbing iwth the spike
-hooking

[David Jamieson]

guan dao is exclusively a battlefield weapon and calvary weapon, man. its not supposed to be used on foot. the forms on foot are done for entertainment.

the techniques are simply

-couched lance stance
-side sweep
- upward sweep
- stabbing iwth the spike
-hooking

I gotta disagree.
Using a halberd off a horse instead of a lance doesn't make sense.

I know the story of General Gwan has him mounted, but this is a pole arm. Throughout history in most all cultures, pole arms aren't really used off of horses too often.

[bawang]

man, i am not speculating. this is a known fact. the da dao was extremely effective on the horse. a da dao charge cannot be blocked or parried and unlike the lance it comes at a weird angle.

[RenDaHai]

@BaWang and Dave

Well, In 'ShuiHuZhuan' (Outlaws of the marsh) they use them both mounted and on foot, and they use them all the time. I realise this book is fiction but it was fiction written at the time DaDao's were actually used.

[Darthlawyer]

And the Big Knife with the hook on it was designed for use by unmounted soldiers against a horse's legs.

[David Jamieson]

man, i am not speculating. this is a known fact. the da dao was extremely effective on the horse. a da dao charge cannot be blocked or parried and unlike the lance it comes at a weird angle.

I didn't say it wasn't used from a mount, I said it wasn't exclusive to that use.