am i using kung fu?

[wiz cool c]

this was from another thread about bagua,
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiz cool c
i'm not saying he can or can't,but i have been involved in bagua for about maybe 7 years,martial arts maybe close to 30,and to be honestly i haven't seen a whole lot of proof that bagua works either in sparring or competition, but one thing i can say is, bagua works well in real fights, i can think of at least 4 different occasions i used the techniques in real fights ,and they worked well

And here comes the style conundrum. All styles have kicks right? There is a stomping kick in ba gua in their crane stepping drills. Stomping kicks are in all styles. If I stomp kick a guy tryin to rob me was I doing ba gua or tkd or hung gar? Depending on the style of the person in the fight they will claim they used x style.I don't believe in any of this using this style or that style in a fight. I don't believe in any of this using this style or that style in a fight.


so if do bjj and get in a fight and pull off an arm bar can i say i used bjj in a fight?

[LivingArt]

a lot of martial arts share tenchiques, or have techniques that are incredibly similar to other styles. I would say when using a technique you could best describe them are striking or grappling techniques. and if you're certain you're using a technique in the way the style dictates than by all means say you're using say muay thais roundhouse. But other martial arts also have roundhouse kicks.

If your leg stays straight, you pivot your stepping leg, and enter at a 45 degree angle then you're using a muay thai round house. if you keep your knee bent and "snap" your roundhouse kick than you's be using a karate/taekwondo/kung fu roundhouse.

The devil's in the details.

[wiz cool c]

right i see your point. so what if i practice boxing and get into a street fight and knock someone out with a hook punch am i using boxing? or am a wrestler and get in a fight and lateral drop the guy, am i using wrestling?

[Lee Chiang Po]

right i see your point. so what if i practice boxing and get into a street fight and knock someone out with a hook punch am i using boxing? or am a wrestler and get in a fight and lateral drop the guy, am i using wrestling?

Dude, you have some serious issues. It don't matter what system you use, because most good systems will all have some pretty decent techniques. They are shared I guess. There is just so many ways to hit or kick someone, and some systems tend to collect the more effective ones, but just because someone from a different fighting system uses the same kick as you, it don't automatically mean he is doing your system, or you his. Just learn it and practice it and be happy that it works for you.

[wiz cool c]

not the point i'm trying to make, the point is, if i box and knock someone out with a hook people will say boxing works in real life, if someone arm bars someone in a fight and they train bjj,bjj is a real fighting style, but if i use bagua techniques,specific techniques even combinations from the form still i'm not using baugua, it is a way to discredit bagua and kung fu



and i have issues maybe but i'm sure i am still living the dream you wish you were living

[lance]

not the point i'm trying to make, the point is, if i box and knock someone out with a hook people will say boxing works in real life, if someone arm bars someone in a fight and they train bjj,bjj is a real fighting style, but if i use bagua techniques,specific techniques even combinations from the form still i'm not using baugua, it is a way to discredit bagua and kung fu



and i have issues maybe but i'm sure i am still living the dream you wish you were living

Wiz cool ,

Living art , lee chiang po , is right it does ' nt matter what technique you use , what really matters is you are able to survive the situation . And yes , if you beat a person up with only with your fists , yes it ' s boxing , and that arm bar fight you
are talking about , it could be wrestling , because if you think about it BJJ people would make use of the entire body , arm bar sounds more like wrestling . BJJ can be used against one person , but what if you ' re surrounded by mutiple opponents , bagua should be working at that time . And if you using techniques from a particular type of bagua form then it is bagua .

Another thing is Wiz cool , is this a trick question ? If you ' re using techniques from a particular form of bagua , why would it be bagua ? And yes , you ' re discrediting bagua and kung fu . Why don ' t you just call it MMA wizcool method .

[YouKnowWho]

A: What's your style?
B: I train the style that can beat the sh!t out of people.

[Dragonzbane76]

Arm bar =wrestling? Where the heckdid that come from?

[Frost]

Arm bar =wrestling? Where the heckdid that come from?

its lance got to love him lol
To clarify what 76 is on about
wrestling doesn’t have arm bars as such, it’s a pinning not a submission art so it would be BJJ or judo

BJJ can be used against multiple opponents about as well as other arts, ie poorly, but I can use you are a shield whilst doing a standing rear naked and punch a hole through the group to escape for example, or I can body lock you throw you into your friends and then run like h*ll

As for the original point, if it doesn’t work in sparring or competitions but it does work on the street, I would question on who exactly it is working and their skill level, because if you can’t pull something off under controlled conditions against an opponent who is also playing by the same rules, how do you manage to pull it off against someone in a totally no holds barred situation?

AS for are you using your art, well if you are using the structure and power generation you are shown in training, then the actual technique will be from your art whether it’s a stomp, kick or throw, it’s the structure, power generation and training methods that make an art, not the techniques per say

[sanjuro_ronin]

If you train bagua and get into a fight and beat the other guy, then your bagua trained paid off.
That is the most simplest way to see these things.
HOWEVER, the issue is NOT that, the issue is one of HOW did you beat the other guy and it is this "how" that confirms that you beat him with "bagua" (whatever hat may mean).
In short:
If that Bagua YOU were taught and that YOU train is strictly palm work and circular movements and you beat him with a straight punch up the middle, then while you training MAY have helped you, it certainly wasn't a "bagua technique" that did it.
It would be like saying that you spend all your time in BJJ class working on ground work and then in a fight you take out a guy with a left hook and claim that BJJ is the best !
That makes no sense whatsoever.

[Frost]

If you train bagua and get into a fight and beat the other guy, then your bagua trained paid off.
That is the most simplest way to see these things.
HOWEVER, the issue is NOT that, the issue is one of HOW did you beat the other guy and it is this "how" that confirms that you beat him with "bagua" (whatever hat may mean).
In short:
If that Bagua YOU were taught and that YOU train is strictly palm work and circular movements and you beat him with a straight punch up the middle, then while you training MAY have helped you, it certainly wasn't a "bagua technique" that did it.
It would be like saying that you spend all your time in BJJ class working on ground work and then in a fight you take out a guy with a left hook and claim that BJJ is the best !
That makes no sense whatsoever.

why do i see vitor belfort in my mind as i read this bit lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

why do i see vitor belfort in my mind as i read this bit lol

How many fights did he even win that guy? I can't remember...but I think he will always be remembered for that "blitzing" fist attack, LOL !

[Frost]

How many fights did he even win that guy? I can't remember...but I think he will always be remembered for that "blitzing" fist attack, LOL !

he won a fair few with his boxing, and his corner would always chat BJJ afterwards lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

he won a fair few with his boxing, and his corner would always chat BJJ afterwards lol

Really? That's too funny but I do recall Rorian saying how Matt Hughes' victory over Royce was a great accomplishment for Gracie JJ.
:D

[wiz cool c]

[QUOTE=Frost;1163477]its lance got to love him lol
As for the original point, if it doesn’t work in sparring or competitions but it does work on the street, I would question on who exactly it is working and their skill level, because if you can’t pull something off under controlled conditions against an opponent who is also playing by the same rules, how do you manage to pull it off against someone in a totally no holds barred situation?



i understand what you are saying. in my on experience,i have trained in many arts over many years. most recently in the last few years bagua and shuai jiao. bagua for maybe 7 year shuai jiao about 5. now i have not seen bagua used often in sparring or in competiton.but i have used it on 4 different occasions successfully. i have trained in shuai jiao and bagua side by side. i spar almost evertime i do shuai jiao,but in the real fights bagua techniques are what came out . and worked well under street fighting condition. now yes i agree that these opponents were not well trained and not as tough as someone you most likely would meet in competition. but hey they are the people who f$%ked with me. and the shuai jiao techniques that i used all the time in sparring didn't come to mind.

now i can not explain this scientificly,and people will say too deadly for the ring is bull****. but this has been my own real life experience. and these techniques that worked for me well in street fights were identical to those found in the forms i learned.

[David Jamieson]

"guy tried to rob me, so I kicked his ass"

That will suffice. The style note isn't required. lol

[Pork Chop]

The way I look at it is this:
I'm a fighter, not a style.
If there's something from a style that I want to use, and I pull it off, then for me, the style is effective.
I don't really care what other people label what I do as.

On the other hand, there's also teaching method, which gets confused with style a lot.
If the teaching method of a particular school is to do nothing but breathing exercises and assume you can magically just fight one day after X number of years of training, I'm not so sure that training at that school is all that useful. That doesn't mean the style itself isn't useful in it's own way.

In the end, there's no one school or style that is the be-all-end-all of training, because at least 1/3 of your learning should be based on experience (especially with other arts) and nobody can teach you that - you need to do it for yourself.

[bawang]

A: What's your style?
B: I train the style that can beat the sh!t out of people.

i train wombat combat, it is supremem ultimate style.

[TenTigers]

I teach TCMA. I also train in BJJ. When I teach any grappling.....it's suht gohk! :D

unless I am teaching Mandarin Kung-Fu classes, then I guess it would be shuai jiao....

[bawang]

I teach TCMA. I also train in BJJ. When I teach any grappling.....it's suht gohk! :D

unless I am teaching Mandarin Kung-Fu classes, then I guess it would be shuai jiao....

1. learn BJJ
2. call it kun gfu
3. win

[Lucas]

just tell people you dont know any martial martial arts at all....just say 'im just a natural destroyer'

[TenTigers]

1. learn BJJ
2. call it kun gfu
3. win

That's RIGHT! TT FTW!!!!


( Your ftw is most likely different than mine);)

[Lee Chiang Po]

not the point i'm trying to make, the point is, if i box and knock someone out with a hook people will say boxing works in real life, if someone arm bars someone in a fight and they train bjj,bjj is a real fighting style, but if i use bagua techniques,specific techniques even combinations from the form still i'm not using baugua, it is a way to discredit bagua and kung fu



and i have issues maybe but i'm sure i am still living the dream you wish you were living

LOL!! I am not so sure of all that, but like I said, it really don't matter what people say anyway. On average they will not know what they are talking about anyway.

[lance]

Arm bar =wrestling? Where the heckdid that come from?

What are you ! man ! A martial arts critic , all you do is criticize peoples' thread , but you yourself don ' t have any answers ? So if arm bar is ' nt wrestling then , where did it come from then ? If you can ' t answer me then you don ' t anything .
You ' re just jealous .

I ' ve notice whenever I submit a thread , you always have some kind of remarks .
Well , it does ' nt matter anyway .

[lance]

Arm bar =wrestling? Where the heckdid that come from?

Dragonzbane , okay I take back what I said about you not knowing anything , arm bar comes from BJJ , so maybe I don ' t know anything , but it does ' nt mean that I can ' t research it right ? But you ' re still a martial arts critic to me , you know why ? You criticize what I write on my thread and make remarks , but you don ' t provide any answers to my thread . It ' s like saying you ' re wrong , but you figure out why ? So it means that you ' re a different type of person , who expect people like me to figure out what you ' re thinking right ? Well , you ' re the type of person I don ' t need to deal with anyway .

[wiz cool c]

it came from japanese jj then judo then bjj, not being a **** just saying

[lance]

its lance got to love him lol
To clarify what 76 is on about
wrestling doesn’t have arm bars as such, it’s a pinning not a submission art so it would be BJJ or judo

BJJ can be used against multiple opponents about as well as other arts, ie poorly, but I can use you are a shield whilst doing a standing rear naked and punch a hole through the group to escape for example, or I can body lock you throw you into your friends and then run like h*ll

As for the original point, if it doesn’t work in sparring or competitions but it does work on the street, I would question on who exactly it is working and their skill level, because if you can’t pull something off under controlled conditions against an opponent who is also playing by the same rules, how do you manage to pull it off against someone in a totally no holds barred situation?

AS for are you using your art, well if you are using the structure and power generation you are shown in training, then the actual technique will be from your art whether it’s a stomp, kick or throw, it’s the structure, power generation and training methods that make an art, not the techniques per say

Frost ,

Show me a video where BJJ can used against multiple attackers ? Silly joke ,
BJJ , the idea is to get the person on the ground , so that you can utilize your techniques , you got submission holds joint locks , and choke holds . So lets say the the first person comes attacking with a right hook , so maybe you move to avoid that punch , so that as the hook passes you , you can set him up for a choke hold , now it ' ll take a while to choke a person out , unless you ' re strong .
While you choke out the first person , the second person attacks you , ! yeah ! the person who you ' re holding in a choke hold can be your shield for the second person . And plus eventhough you shield yourself against the second attacker with the first attacker , you still got to make sure that the first person is out or he can attack you again . What if the third person throws a kick against you ? You probably going need a technique using your hands to catch that kick and take your opponent to the ground and you can leg lock the attacker . Or make him submit . Best of luck to you .

When I talk about defense against multiple opponents , I ' m talking about techniques from your art , that can fully stop the attackers from retaliating against you . Like knocking him by striking him in the stomach , or breaking his ribs , breaking his joints . But if you ' re in a situation where you ' re dealing with just 1 person , ! yeah ! Your BJJ can work .

[Frost]

Frost ,

Show me a video where BJJ can used against multiple attackers ? Silly joke ,
BJJ , the idea is to get the person on the ground , so that you can utilize your techniques , you got submission holds joint locks , and choke holds . So lets say the the first person comes attacking with a right hook , so maybe you move to avoid that punch , so that as the hook passes you , you can set him up for a choke hold , now it ' ll take a while to choke a person out , unless you ' re strong .
While you choke out the first person , the second person attacks you , ! yeah ! the person who you ' re holding in a choke hold can be your shield for the second person . And plus eventhough you shield yourself against the second attacker with the first attacker , you still got to make sure that the first person is out or he can attack you again . What if the third person throws a kick against you ? You probably going need a technique using your hands to catch that kick and take your opponent to the ground and you can leg lock the attacker . Or make him submit . Best of luck to you .

When I talk about defense against multiple opponents , I ' m talking about techniques from your art , that can fully stop the attackers from retaliating against you . Like knocking him by striking him in the stomach , or breaking his ribs , breaking his joints . But if you ' re in a situation where you ' re dealing with just 1 person , ! yeah ! Your BJJ can work .

Show me a video of TCMA working in a multiple opponent situation :)
BJJ does take the person to the ground most of the time that’s correct, which means it has throws and takedowns (not as good as wrestling but good enough for what it needs) so I can slip under your punch body lock dump you between me and your friends and run away as they try to get over you, or I can pick you up and run straight through your friends using you as a battering ram
It also has standing submissions like as you say chokes and It doesn’t take that long to choke someone out, but I would be using the choke to disorientate and control him, not put him to sleep

What does BJJ have to fully stop an opponent from coming at me? Well hitting him with the ground or cutting of the blood supply to him head probably works as well as punching his stomach :)

[Dragonzbane76]

@ lance,

Critic? Well yeah this is a forum last i checked and usually this happens. Dude if u dont like my statements put me on ignore, i promise it wont hurt my feelings.


As for an answer to your question, if it works who cares where it came from.

[Dragonzbane76]

Frost i would go further and state it teaches positioning that most of the other arts dont teach. Positioning in stand up and ground to be able to defend.

[wiz cool c]

[QUOTE=Frost;1163629]Show me a video of TCMA working in a multiple opponent situation :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvPeGiVeJyE

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is also the video of that boxer taking out 4 guys.

I really don't think you will find a video of a BJJ grappling with mulitiple attackers because BJJ does NOT advocate grappling with multiple attackers, it advocates "hitting and running" like every other MA.
It does however address what happens if you fall or are taken down WHILE facing multiple attackers.

[David Jamieson]

bjj? rufk me? lol

why the f**k does it come around to this retarded bickering over and over again?

[Frost]

bjj? rufk me? lol

why the f**k does it come around to this retarded bickering over and over again?

maybe because people keep bringing it up?

you know you could always (shock horror) chose to not get involved:rolleyes:...

[Dragonzbane76]

I dont think anyone is advocating taking on multiple people on the ground. I dont know how some people just automatically think that bjj would take on such encounters on there "back". Most people i know in bjj and grappling will tell u to never be that dumb. But in a fight do we ever onow exactly what is going to happen. NO. So be prepared for anything.

[Neeros]

Kung fu = Force Training, Stances/Footwork, and Chuan fa all trained daily until death. :)

[David Jamieson]

Kung fu = Force Training, Stances/Footwork, and Chuan fa all trained daily until death. :)

what of qi gong? zhou chan? massage? erudition? etc?

You're talking about martial arts. anyone can train that. But Kung Fu? Kung Fu is the training of the person in a holistic sense. The entire person. NOt just attack and defend stuff.

Just sayin...

[Neeros]

what of qi gong? zhou chan? massage? erudition? etc?

You're talking about martial arts. anyone can train that. But Kung Fu? Kung Fu is the training of the person in a holistic sense. The entire person. NOt just attack and defend stuff.

Just sayin...

I totally agree.

Well, I do train Qi Gong and Chan daily actually. Point massages are taught as well.

We are taught how to train everything as Qi gong on an energy level. We also train everything in a Chan or "Zen" state of mind because everything we do is also mind cultivation.

Essentially we holistically work on all levels at once.

Different people have different aims, but typically the major benefits received from the training are radiant health, mental clarity, spiritual joy, and combat efficiency. Not necessarily in that order depending on your aims and objectives.

I sum all that up as being included in Force Training.

Our grandmaster has said that our training program is a program to develop one into a Scholar-warrior. So scholarly aspects are definitely included. Everything we do has rich philosophy and strategy that is applied to our training and can be applied to daily life. But that was simply a summation of many words into a precise definition of what Kung fu means to me. I think Force can come in many different forms.

[lance]

@ lance,

Critic? Well yeah this is a forum last i checked and usually this happens. Dude if u dont like my statements put me on ignore, i promise it wont hurt my feelings.


As for an answer to your question, if it works who cares where it came from.

You ' re the one who replied to my thread with those remarks . I think you do care where it came from .

[Dragonzbane76]

I reply to a good many posts with truthful comments your not that special.

[lance]

I reply to a good many posts with truthful comments your not that special.

I don ' t think so , I noticed that you ' re always picking on my topic thread , with negative comments , so dragonzbane don ' t BS to me . Did I say I was special ?
You said it not me . The way I see your thread you give good truthful comments to other people , but because what I write in my threads does ' nt suit you . You give my thread negative comments . The fact is you really don ' t know the truth anyway . So if you ' re going to do this to me , then I ' ll do the same to you too .

[Frost]

I don ' t think so , I noticed that you ' re always picking on my topic thread , with negative comments , so dragonzbane don ' t BS to me . Did I say I was special ?
You said it not me . The way I see your thread you give good truthful comments to other people , but because what I write in my threads does ' nt suit you . You give my thread negative comments . The fact is you really don ' t know the truth anyway . So if you ' re going to do this to me , then I ' ll do the same to you too .

to be brutally honest you do make some statements that cry out to be corrected :)

[Dragonzbane76]

Like i said u dont like my demeanor put me on ignore makes no difference.

[David Jamieson]

Now now. Let's just end the animosity.
Thanks. :)

[SavvySavage]

what of qi gong? zhou chan? massage? erudition? etc?

You're talking about martial arts. anyone can train that. But Kung Fu? Kung Fu is the training of the person in a holistic sense. The entire person. NOt just attack and defend stuff.

Just sayin...

It's much easier to train the other stuff than it is to train the fighting aspect. Safer too. Your comment should be reversed. What about fighting technique, sparring, conditioning, and fight strategy? This would looking at the whole fighting spectrum. Anyone can train the non-martial stuff because it's safer and easier. What's the pint of learning meditation and Chinese medicine if you and your students never get hurt? Never get beaten or angry/disappointed from losing in sparring? The medicine and meditation aspects would be directly applicable in these situations instead of just doing them to do them.

Anyway, my point is that it's easier to learn different qi gongs and self massages for health instead of really learning whatnot takes to hurt anothe human being.

[David Jamieson]

It's much easier to train the other stuff than it is to train the fighting aspect. Safer too. Your comment should be reversed. What about fighting technique, sparring, conditioning, and fight strategy? This would looking at the whole fighting spectrum. Anyone can train the non-martial stuff because it's safer and easier. What's the pint of learning meditation and Chinese medicine if you and your students never get hurt? Never get beaten or angry/disappointed from losing in sparring? The medicine and meditation aspects would be directly applicable in these situations instead of just doing them to do them.

Anyway, my point is that it's easier to learn different qi gongs and self massages for health instead of really learning whatnot takes to hurt anothe human being.

I disagree and see this aspect of Kung fu study neglected more often than not. I also see many guys who claim to have studied these things but demonstrate not having a clue about them.

the fighting aspects? that is the simplest part. Getting angry while sparring? That's a moment to learn to grow up.

I'm 48 years old. I've had my ass handed to me in training on a few occasions and have done my fair share of handing others their ass as well.

at my age, fighting is the least important aspect of kung fu and is for the most part behind me. Not that I can't punch like a horse kick, I'm told I still can. Not that I don't train the martial aspect, I do.

the martial aspect is the simple part. the refinement exercises and mental development are the superior aspects that will give you quality of life that isn't had in the same way without them.

I seriously don't meet many people who work on that aspect of themselves in context to their martial arts. It is to their own detriment. I wouldn't take the advanced and throw it back at the beginning. :)

[No_Know]

Many Arts have similar or universal techniques(with variation possible). One would use a universal technique as learned from styles one associates ones' self to be practicing/studing/having studied/studies currently.

Use a move you learned in your style of study, My Say-you're using that style/Martial art.

If you do arm bars in BJJ and you do one a kin of the ones you do/did one might think you can say you used BJJ (except your instructors telling you to not say you use BJJ except as a promotional).
.
No_Know

[lance]

There is also the video of that boxer taking out 4 guys.

I really don't think you will find a video of a BJJ grappling with mulitiple attackers because BJJ does NOT advocate grappling with multiple attackers, it advocates "hitting and running" like every other MA.
It does however address what happens if you fall or are taken down WHILE facing multiple attackers.


Sanjuro_ronin , if you can find frosts' thread he did say that BJJ can be used against multiple attackers' . So that ' s why I was just challenging him , I know that you can ' t use BJJ against multiple opponents . In my thread the reasons why I mentioned the techniques in BJJ is because , I was wanted people to imagine the picture in their minds how using these methods used in BJJ , can ' t work against mutiple opponents . I know you can ' t use BJJ against multiple opponents , but frost said you can . I know that you could ' nt find a video . so that ' s why in one of my thread I did mention the moves of BJJ , and if people can use their imagination , you can ' t use BJJ moves in multiple attacks .


For multiple attackers kenpo ( chinese , japanese , okinawan ) Kajukenbo , thai boxing . Kung fu ( both northern and southern ) . Boxing if the boxer is very skillful and yet powerful .

If you fall down while facing multiple opponents , your best bet is to get back up , and attack the first person who attacks you first . Nobody wants to face multiple attackers , but it can happen to anybody . Because eventhough you run , and try hiding , you better hope that your opponents don ' t find you . You know the saying you can run , but you can ' t hide . Because if they catch you , they ' re still going try to hurt you . I would rather injure each person , then if they smart
they ' ll leave me alone , but if they stupid then , they ' re going to get hurt .

[lance]

I dont think anyone is advocating taking on multiple people on the ground. I dont know how some people just automatically think that bjj would take on such encounters on there "back". Most people i know in bjj and grappling will tell u to never be that dumb. But in a fight do we ever onow exactly what is going to happen. NO. So be prepared for anything.

Don ' t you know frost brought that up , if you can read the thread your friend wrote . So what you ' re going back stab your friend frost ?

[Dragonzbane76]

??? Wtf are u talking about.

[Dragonzbane76]

I think frost was was speaking of positioning if im not wrong and yes bjj/grappling/wrestling teaches this.

[Frost]

originally from lance

yes it ' s boxing , and that arm bar fight you
are talking about , it could be wrestling , because if you think about it BJJ people would make use of the entire body , arm bar sounds more like wrestling . BJJ can be used against one person , but what if you ' re surrounded by mutiple opponents , bagua should be working at that time . And if you using techniques from a particular type of bagua form then it is bagua .

to which i replied


BJJ can be used against multiple opponents about as well as other arts, ie poorly, but I can use you are a shield whilst doing a standing rear naked and punch a hole through the group to escape for example, or I can body lock you throw you into your friends and then run like h*ll

as you can see i never said i would chose BJJ as my first form of defense in a multipul opponent situation nor did i advocate using BJJ i simply said it worked as well as TCMA, ie not that well, i also never said anything about taking the fight to the ground as you can see above id use them as a standing shield or throw them into others
so to quote 76

??? Wtf are u talking about. (aimed at lance no one else)

[Syn7]

I disagree and see this aspect of Kung fu study neglected more often than not. I also see many guys who claim to have studied these things but demonstrate not having a clue about them.

the fighting aspects? that is the simplest part. Getting angry while sparring? That's a moment to learn to grow up.

I'm 48 years old. I've had my ass handed to me in training on a few occasions and have done my fair share of handing others their ass as well.

at my age, fighting is the least important aspect of kung fu and is for the most part behind me. Not that I can't punch like a horse kick, I'm told I still can. Not that I don't train the martial aspect, I do.

the martial aspect is the simple part. the refinement exercises and mental development are the superior aspects that will give you quality of life that isn't had in the same way without them.

I seriously don't meet many people who work on that aspect of themselves in context to their martial arts. It is to their own detriment. I wouldn't take the advanced and throw it back at the beginning. :)

That's cool. But I'm willing to bet that those who do not practice the actual martial aspects would get their "asses handed to them" by a second year MMA student. And to me, that's really sad. So you can take hits, that's awesome. A guy can break metal on your face, thats fresh, I love it. But it isn't that useful in a fight if you don't actually know how to fight. You look at some of these cats that practice the whole spectrum and they are as$ kickers. I think a top fighting monk would do well in his weight class in MMA if you just threw him in there. If he had 2 years to train the specifics I don't see any reason why somebody with those abilities can't be champ.

What saddens me is those who only have half the game and are satisfied with that. I'm not talking about guys getting old and changing their focus. I'm talking about clowns who always just assumed they could fight because they excelled at the non martial aspects of the arts. For the laymen thats fine. nobody really expects everyone who participates to be the best they can be, but those who dedicate their lives to it and completely miss half the point, I don't know man, to me they have wasted half their time. Even more because the sum total of the two is greater than both parts added together.


If fighting never was and never will be any sort of focus then why do MARTIAL arts at all? Who not just do yoga or something. Mastering chi isn't about fighting, and I get that. I just think there are better approaches if you have no interest in the martial aspects.

It never ceases to amaze me at how many people who have never fought actually believe they can fight. It's absolutely ridiculous. Laughable even. I just don't get it.

If I go to the batting cage every day of my life but never actually played a game of baseball then why would I believe I am good at baseball?

It's like med students that think they know everything and believe they wont make mistakes. They are absolutely crushed after their first month looking back at all the mistakes they made and finding out just how much they don't know. And those who survive this trial by fire can become great doctors. Learning from their mistakes. Why did they assume they wouldn't make mistake before? Because they had an unrealistic outlook about life as a doctor. Just like a ton of so called martial artists have an unrealistic outlook about fighting. All theory and very little putting in to practice.

[Syn7]

Sanjuro_ronin , if you can find frosts' thread he did say that BJJ can be used against multiple attackers' . So that ' s why I was just challenging him , I know that you can ' t use BJJ against multiple opponents . In my thread the reasons why I mentioned the techniques in BJJ is because , I was wanted people to imagine the picture in their minds how using these methods used in BJJ , can ' t work against mutiple opponents . I know you can ' t use BJJ against multiple opponents , but frost said you can . I know that you could ' nt find a video . so that ' s why in one of my thread I did mention the moves of BJJ , and if people can use their imagination , you can ' t use BJJ moves in multiple attacks .


For multiple attackers kenpo ( chinese , japanese , okinawan ) Kajukenbo , thai boxing . Kung fu ( both northern and southern ) . Boxing if the boxer is very skillful and yet powerful .

If you fall down while facing multiple opponents , your best bet is to get back up , and attack the first person who attacks you first . Nobody wants to face multiple attackers , but it can happen to anybody . Because eventhough you run , and try hiding , you better hope that your opponents don ' t find you . You know the saying you can run , but you can ' t hide . Because if they catch you , they ' re still going try to hurt you . I would rather injure each person , then if they smart
they ' ll leave me alone , but if they stupid then , they ' re going to get hurt .

You can't figure out how to make your punctuation go back to normal ay! :o

[lance]

You can't figure out how to make your punctuation go back to normal ay! :o

Syn7 , What are you talking about ? My punctuations are accurate , maybe you see it differently ?

[David Jamieson]

That's cool. But I'm willing to bet that those who do not practice the actual martial aspects would get their "asses handed to them" by a second year MMA student. And to me, that's really sad. So you can take hits, that's awesome. A guy can break metal on your face, thats fresh, I love it. But it isn't that useful in a fight if you don't actually know how to fight. You look at some of these cats that practice the whole spectrum and they are as$ kickers. I think a top fighting monk would do well in his weight class in MMA if you just threw him in there. If he had 2 years to train the specifics I don't see any reason why somebody with those abilities can't be champ.

What saddens me is those who only have half the game and are satisfied with that. I'm not talking about guys getting old and changing their focus. I'm talking about clowns who always just assumed they could fight because they excelled at the non martial aspects of the arts. For the laymen thats fine. nobody really expects everyone who participates to be the best they can be, but those who dedicate their lives to it and completely miss half the point, I don't know man, to me they have wasted half their time. Even more because the sum total of the two is greater than both parts added together.


If fighting never was and never will be any sort of focus then why do MARTIAL arts at all? Who not just do yoga or something. Mastering chi isn't about fighting, and I get that. I just think there are better approaches if you have no interest in the martial aspects.

It never ceases to amaze me at how many people who have never fought actually believe they can fight. It's absolutely ridiculous. Laughable even. I just don't get it.

If I go to the batting cage every day of my life but never actually played a game of baseball then why would I believe I am good at baseball?

It's like med students that think they know everything and believe they wont make mistakes. They are absolutely crushed after their first month looking back at all the mistakes they made and finding out just how much they don't know. And those who survive this trial by fire can become great doctors. Learning from their mistakes. Why did they assume they wouldn't make mistake before? Because they had an unrealistic outlook about life as a doctor. Just like a ton of so called martial artists have an unrealistic outlook about fighting. All theory and very little putting in to practice.

Dude, if a guy who trains to fight daily goes into his 45th match and loses in 30 seconds what can be presumed by that?

If a soldier trains in bootcamp for his 13 weeks, takes up a specialty and gets his badge at something that takes incredible skill, steps off the plane and gets shot in the head, what can be presumed by that?

If an MMA dude trains 5 hours a day, 6 days a weeks and then tries to prevent a robbery only to be shot to death, what can be presumed by that?

Fighting isn't important and isn't something you can train to be better at. You can build muscle, you can condition yourself, you can build stamina, you can practice techniques and work on your stepping and power generation.

this will help you in a fight, but is not necessarily the determining factor to any fight.

This is what many martial artists fail to understand. And no, you can't presume that the untrained cannot fight and cannot win over someone who trains to fight. I know for a fact that isn't true and I can name names as to why that doesn't apply in the real world.

I don't care about how people feel about their ability to fight or not. It is unimportant unless I am about to fight them. I don't know who this person is that you are referring to that thinks they can fight etc etc.

who thinks they can't fight? I would raise my eyebrow about that person more because that is a mental blockage. Everyone can fight, whether they train or not.

the thing is, there is always someone who is ready to say "All these people who think they can fight".... but in fact, where are all these people besides in that persons head and who are they to say they can't fight simply because they don't practice in a particular way?

That's just ignorance. And self doubt and ego etc.

Anyone can fight, some can fight well, nobody fights in an unbalanced situation and glock trumps all training even heavyweight champ of the world, which isn't really fighting so much as it is sportive dueling like ALL martial arts conducted in a ring. It's a duel. It's sport. It is not going to change the world like a knife in the eye will.