being sore after workouts

[ged]

while we're talking about weights,

i had a great workout today. right now, 2 hours later, im slightly sore, and tomorrow i know that ill be very sore.

a friend just told me that this is bad, because it can take 2-3 weeks for damaged/torn muscles to repair. i knew that muscles get slightly torn, but i thought that if i eat plenty of protein, ill be ok to stress the same muscles again after a week (my usual rotation cycle)

anyone know about this?

[Lost_Disciple]

To me, being sore is not great. Slightly sore is okay. I use my muscles on days aside from their assigned lifting days. If I have a heavy leg day, I don't want to have aching legs for a whole week. Especially not when I'm gonna be trying kicks, footwork, stances, etc. The same goes for arms.
I'm of the mindset that I'd rather undertrain than overtrain, just as long as I'm trainin'.

"Undertraining" as some hard core people put it, is beneficial in my book, because it lets your body work for you. Resting and repairing the muscles should be just about as important as the working out. I see a lot more improvement by not going all out all the time.

I think there's an old taiji saying where you practise with 70 or 80% so the remainder goes back into repairing your body and helping you improve. Training 100% is actually detrimental to your health.

I'm no expert, just giving my opinion, cuz I got nothing better to do. :)

[harry_the_monk]

If you know they'll hurt for up to 48 hours after are you sure its not just a build up of lactic acid and not a torn muscle....torn muscles are a different thing entirely.
You get build ups of lactic acid in the muscles after workouts, thats fine, if it is too sore, some light work using those muscles can help to flush out that lactic acid and make it slightly less painful, also, after gym try some carbs, fruit is good as that helps the body flush out the lactic acid as well.
If its torn muscle then u better rest it for a bit to let it heal. :D

peace...

[Ford Prefect]

Scientifically Proven Ways to combat soreness after workouts:

1) Light jog for 15 minutes

2) Stretch

3) Consume a meal composed of approximately 50%/50% protein immediately after workout. It is also good to have some BCAA's and extra glutamine in there as well, so I just take a MRP.

4) Take alternating hot and cold shower after you've cooled down. Keep it as hot as you can for a couple minutes and then as cold as you can for a couple minutes, repeat... This not only helps your muscles get rid of the lactic acid build it, but it also kick starts your immune system into cleaning the body out in general.

5) 1-2 hours after workout consume another meal

This should do it. The meals keep your body from going into catabolic shock. The stretching helps to keep your muscles from spasming/tightening, and the jogging/shower helps your muscles rid themselves of toxins like lactic acid.

[Stranger]

I have heard that if you eat a teaspoon of straight baking soda two hours after your workout it limits lactic acid build up. Do not eat more in the beginning or you will puke.

I don't get mad.
I get stabby.

[Ford Prefect]

Never heard of that. I stick to science. Yuck!

[Stranger]

Actually, it is science. Baking soda neutralizes acids of any kind (I think that it would be referred to as a "base" in chemistry, but i am not sure). It tastes like crap (I hear) but the powerlifters who workout at the gym where I take MA classes seem to swear by it.

I don't get mad.
I get stabby.

[Ford Prefect]

I'll repeat: Yuck! I'll stick to better tasting science like steak and fruits. ;) Forget that!

[Stranger]

Which is exactly why I'll recommend it to the desperate, but elect not to do it myself. ;)

I don't get mad.
I get stabby.

[Fu-Pow]

I would highly advise against Ford Prefects advice of taking alternating hot and cold showers. This would be considered very bad in terms of TCM. Baking Soda? If you take Baking Soda all your going to do is upset the acid balance in your stomach and give yourself a bad case of heartburn. The body builders that swear by this probably have never heard of the placebo effect. The body just doesn't work this way.

Sore muscles are caused by a build up of lactic acid in the muscles. Lactic acid is produced when the muscle cells are working harder than the available oxygen will allow. So they switch over to anaerobic respiration. Lactic acid is the byproduct of this anaerobic respiration. Lactic acid is transported to the liver and converted back to glucose to be used by the body (Cori Cycle).

Muscle tissue grows because of increased metabolic demand from being worked out and also from microscopic tears in the muscle fibers. (BTW,When your muscles get bigger you do not actuallly grow more muscle cells, they just increase in size.) As far as I know soreness is not caused by these tears but rather the lactic acid build up.

Here are some dos and don'ts for soreness:

1)DON'T take aspirin/tylenol/etc...it has never been shown to have any effect on sore muscles.

2)DO do a light cardiovascular/stretcing type work out. This will help free the lactic acid from the muscle areas and get it back to the liver.

3)DON'T drink a lot of alcohol. One beer might be okay, because it relieves some pain and gets you movin around and freein up the lactic acid. But alcohol is also converted to lactic acid and this could keep you sorer longer. Plus it dehydrates you.

4)DO drink plenty of water. You want to stay well hydrated to make sure the lactic acid keeps moving out of your muscle tissue.

5)DO get a massage. Again, helping free up the lactic acid from muscle tissue.

6) DO take a bath. Again, got a get that stuff moving out of the muscle.

7) DO take a multivitamin, especially with vitamin B complex. Muscle cells need all these goodies to keep growin. Plus the enzyme that converts lactic acid back to glucose uses a B-vitamin.

Can't think of anything else, hope that helps. And , yes, I still do get sore. But it is usually when I don't follow my own DO and DON'TS

Fu-Pow

http://www.fongs-kungfu.de/assets/images/lionhead.gif

"Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu does not encourage its students to abuse or harm others with no reason. Nevertheless, in times when Kung Fu must be performed, Choy Lay Fut requires the student to change from a gentleman into a fierce and cold fighter."

-Lee Koon Hung,
CLF:The Dynamic Art of Fighting

[ged]

thanks everyone for your replies.

um, one thing, i dont really care how i sore i get - its not me being macho, its just that the sorer i am, the more i feel like i had a good workout. its good sore, u know what i mean?

what i was interested in, were how long those microscopic tears referred to in a few posts take to heal, before i can workout those same muscles again.

i am 90percent sure that the soreness immediately after workouts is caused by lactic acid, and the soreness over the next few days by the tears. i did a lot of research on the net on this.

but i could definitely be wrong.

(although that WOULD mean that the internet has false information on it - :o)

[Lost_Disciple]

Sorry, my post was kinda biased. I overdid legs last week and had a hard time walking for a good 4 or 5 days. :)
.

[IronFist]

Fu-Pow, don't forget that Alcohol is catabolic as well, so it's going to eat your muscles :)

Iron

[IronFist]

Also, there's been no proven connection that Soreness = effective workout.

But I seem to find that soreness results after bodybuilding type workouts than after pure strength workouts. For example, last year in college when I was bodybuilding, after each workout whichever muscle groups I had just worked would be sore for 3 days, (legs even more). But now, on a purely strength workout, I hardly ever get sore, and I work the same muscles 5 days a week, with heavy weights ("heavy" here being subjective, but my 3-5 rep max weights).

I would hypothesize that soreness comes from a large amount of the muscle being broken down, a la hypertrophic workouts. More of it breaks down, more soreness, more grows back, more muscle mass. Addtitionally, the shorter rest breaks in BB routines increase the intensity of a workout, thus helping to breakdown more muscle fibers.

Don't believe me? Go bench your 3RM for 3 sets, with long rest in between. No soreness the next day. Now, go bench a weight for 8 or 10 reps, 1.5 minutes inbetween sets, for 5 or 6 sets. Yeah, you'll be sore.

Iron

[ged]

ironfist, please expand on your bodybuilding routines vs strength routines.

so in bodybuilding, youd do about 8 reps of a weight? and feel sore?

and now, you do 3-5 reps of heavier weights? and dont feel sore?

so the first lot make you bigger, but not stronger? (i know that there are many types of 'stronger') am i on the right track here? or have i misunderstood?

[dumog93]

I've noticed that since changing from more of a bodybuilding program to a powerlifting program i am significantly less sore.My muscles get tired,real tired...but not very sore.I feel fatigue the next day in a good kind of way,and might get sore the day after that a slight amount.but never to the degree i used to get by doing alternating sets,giant sets,and the rest of the bodybuilder's bag of workout tricks.I probably put more effort into my workouts now than i did then,but i tend to do a lot less reps and keep the variations for the same muscle groups at a minimum.The baking soda thing is a myth i think.Tried it,didn't seem to help.Maybe if you like eating chalk it will work for you.I do drink a hell of a lot of cell tech after heavy lifting days though.I think creatine has been one of the few significant products made that actually may work as advertised and i've tried about all the garbage.It also seems to work better with the lipoic acid and dextrose mix that cell tech has as compared with phosphagen's fructose and lipoic acid.

-Devildog

[Ford Prefect]

Iron and Dumag have a good point. You can structure a workout properly, then you won't be sore.

[Sharky]

isn't it funny how we, the "fitness freaks", those people who work out every day, are the ones that have constant injuries and soreness etc?

.......

Edd

My anus is superior™

[IronFist]

ged,

ironfist, please expand on your bodybuilding routines vs strength routines. so in bodybuilding, youd do about 8 reps of a weight? and feel sore?

Here are the basics. For pure strength, with minimal size gain, your exercises would tend to look more like this:

Sets: 2-4
Reps: 5 or less
Rest: 5 minutes or more in between sets
Weight: HEAVY
Don't go to failure

For Bodybuilding, it would be more like this:

Sets: 5 and up (up to 15 or 20 for some people)
Reps: 6-10+
Rest: 1 and a half minutes or less between sets
Weight: Not heavy weights, but between 60-80% of your 1 rep max
Some people go to failure, but others choose not to.

As you can see, a BB routine is more "intense," and will leave you feeling more tired after the set. Also, with strength routines, people tend to do few, but compound exercises (ie. squats, bench, deadlifts). BB'ers do those, but also individual muscle exercises as well, bicep curls, forearm curls, etc. The object of BB'ing is primarily to LOOK like a BB'er, with strength being a result of training. Maximal strength is not the primary goal.

so the first lot make you bigger, but not stronger? (i know that there are many types of 'stronger') am i on the right track here? or have i misunderstood?

BB'ers will get strong, but generally not as strong as PL'ers, or people who lift for strength.

Additionally, Powerlifters don't have to eat as much, and are generally MUCH healthier people. Pro BB'ers, while HUGE, are generally not in that good of health.

Hope this helped.

Iron

[prana]

1. Monitor your "just awoken" resting heart beat. If it rises more than about 6 bpm, you may have over-trained.

2. Pain after training depends on your training. If you are doing "plyometrics", you will feel the pain often on the 2nd or 3rd day. This is termed "DOMS". Plyopmetrics concentrates on micro-tears in the muscles, and thickening of muscle fibers when they are super-compensated. Massage and stretching whilst muscles are still warm will reduce pain a fair bit.

3. Burning pain after "anaerobic" training is best removed via drinking water. Massage is also good to help youir body flush out the Lactic Acids. Some electrlytes may help, depending on how intense the work out was.

I don't know about eating proteins. They just make you **** heaps...hehe. Amino acids ?!!!!!.


4.

[ged]

just saying thankyou to everyone, especially disciple and iron fist.

its really comforting to know that i can ask questions and get such good responses.

thanks once more

now, my only problem is whether to go for strength or size.... lol.