Punching Sensei in the Gut

[WingChunABQ]

I co-teach in a martial arts program at a local high school. The other teacher is a sensei of Shotokan and Goju Ryu, very well regarded and popular in our town. Today I stopped into his karate class to say hello, and on a lark he asked me to help him demonstrate the conditioning that he does.

We banged arms and stuff, and then he put his hands up and told me to start working his body. He stood there while I punched his stomach really hard, over and over again. This sent peals of screams and gasps up from his all-female karate class. This guy is tough as a bucket of nails - I wasn't hitting him my hardest but I wasn't going light either.

After he looked at his students, trembling in their gis, and said, "This is what you have to work up to!"

I love getting to work with and share with other martial artists.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I co-teach in a martial arts program at a local high school. The other teacher is a sensei of Shotokan and Goju Ryu, very well regarded and popular in our town. Today I stopped into his karate class to say hello, and on a lark he asked me to help him demonstrate the conditioning that he does.

We banged arms and stuff, and then he put his hands up and told me to start working his body. He stood there while I punched his stomach really hard, over and over again. This sent peals of screams and gasps up from his all-female karate class. This guy is tough as a bucket of nails - I wasn't hitting him my hardest but I wasn't going light either.

After he looked at his students, trembling in their gis, and said, "This is what you have to work up to!"

I love getting to work with and share with other martial artists.

Old school karate is ALL about the conditoning.
And the mind humps that go with it, LOL !

[WingChunABQ]

Yeah, and this guy is old school. Approaching 40 years of martial arts training, goes to Okinawa and Japan to train all the time... He bangs on giant river rocks all the time to condition his hands. He's intense.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yeah, and this guy is old school. Approaching 40 years of martial arts training, goes to Okinawa and Japan to train all the time... He bangs on giant river rocks all the time to condition his hands. He's intense.

Get him into Jow, to many old school karate guys don't understand the necessity of Jow.

[WingChunABQ]

Oh he knows about Jow. He uses the recipe of another old school Hung Gar sifu in our town.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Oh he knows about Jow. He uses the recipe of another old school Hung Gar sifu in our town.

Good, not enough do.

[Hendrik]

We banged arms and stuff, and then he put his hands up and told me to start working his body. He stood there while I punched his stomach really hard, over and over again. This sent peals of screams and gasps up from his all-female karate class. This guy is tough as a bucket of nails - I wasn't hitting him my hardest but I wasn't going light either.

.


seriously, this is not a good practice. one can get serious internal injury.

[Lucas]

or they can turn into a hardcor 40 year practitioner that can take it

[jesper]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqDVajCHKGQ

[kung fu fighter]

I co-teach in a martial arts program at a local high school. The other teacher is a sensei of Shotokan and Goju Ryu, very well regarded and popular in our town. Today I stopped into his karate class to say hello, and on a lark he asked me to help him demonstrate the conditioning that he does.

We banged arms and stuff, and then he put his hands up and told me to start working his body. He stood there while I punched his stomach really hard, over and over again. This sent peals of screams and gasps up from his all-female karate class. This guy is tough as a bucket of nails - I wasn't hitting him my hardest but I wasn't going light either.

After he looked at his students, trembling in their gis, and said, "This is what you have to work up to!"

I love getting to work with and share with other martial artists.

I know exactly what you mean, one of my sparring partners was a kyokushinkai black belt. he received his kyokushinkai black belt in Japan and faught in the world kyokushinkai championship in Japan and came in top 30 out of hundereds or possibly thousands of competitiors. He was tough as nails when it came to conditioning. he also had amazing timing and distancing. He even won a few fights in K1 Vagas. Hitting him felt like hitting rubber. but just remember no one can condition their chin :) so if you ever spar or fight someone like that don't play his game. distroy his balance and attack areas that can't be conditioned


here is his profile http://k-1sport.de/en/database/show_fighter.php?id=121
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWJsCXt5LCY&feature=relmfu

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1165984] . Hitting him felt like hitting rubber. but just remember no one you can condition their chin :)
-----------------------------------

True Navin.

joy

[Lee Chiang Po]

Hendrik is right, you can't condition your organs either. Spleen, gaul bladder, liver, heart, kidneys. It looks real macho, impresses the little girls, but it is a very dangerous practice. Why even do that. If no one can hurt you, why even fight in the first place? Just stand and let them beat on you till they get tired and then walk off. No real need to learn to fight. The whole idea is to keep this from happening in the first place.
That is also why we strive to target certain areas of the anatomy. A straight on chin punch will knock anyone out, no matter how big or strong or tough.

[Hendrik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqDVajCHKGQ

this is just demo for fun.

i am sure you all have heard about the story of GM Ip Man breaking the iron stomach Qigong of the female artist.

one must never take a chance.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik is right, you can't condition your organs either. Spleen, gaul bladder, liver, heart, kidneys. It looks real macho, impresses the little girls, but it is a very dangerous practice. Why even do that. If no one can hurt you, why even fight in the first place? Just stand and let them beat on you till they get tired and then walk off. No real need to learn to fight. The whole idea is to keep this from happening in the first place.
That is also why we strive to target certain areas of the anatomy. A straight on chin punch will knock anyone out, no matter how big or strong or tough.


decades ago when I was testing for my brown black belt in Kyokushin. So, i have to spar a few black belt senior. what happen was I got carry away as a hot short teenager.

So, I was substituting my strike with WCK strike, and the outcome is I knock the black belt out of breath. the black belt senior's san chin harden training cannot seal his body up. the strike penetrate .....

It is a KO ok sparing. my instructor cannot say anything the strike is legitimate and within rule. but after the test. my instructor told me never do that again and I feel bad today for doing such.

I have a few same type of incident at teenage which lead me to have " ok rather I loose attitude" then to win at all cost with those strikes. it is a part of my regret of hurting others which i have to carry over my life.

So, no, the WCK strike can even penetrate armour. dont do it. and dont hurt others for we dont want ourself to get hurt.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Any martial artist who pretends to be anything, needs to be able to handle a few legitimate gut shots. However, I don't care who the hell you are, no one can stand there and take clean shot after shot from a legitimate fighter in their weight class. You should have given him the Bas Ruten liver shot for being a *******.
Watch this at about 245.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JBUJa7ndYL0

My problem though with Sensei isn't that he can take a few shots, it's that he is trying to put himself on a pedestal and probably seem mystical. 600-1500 reps on abs, 2-4 times per week,will give you the same ability as Sensei.

[goju]

seriously, this is not a good practice. one can get serious internal injury.

Seeing as how many Okinawan karate practitioners seem to be able to practice their art into their advanced years i think its best to say they know what they are doing no?

[imperialtaichi]

Seriously guys.... what's the chance of getting in a confrontation WITHOUT getting a scratch? Unless the you are way way way better than the opponent, he will land some hits on you. Don't forget, unless your attacker is a total idiot, he is going to size up his odds before fighting you. Which means most fights occur only when the attacker has a good chance of taking you out.

If you can't handle a few hits, you are going to fall. I am not advocating "taking hits" over "issuing hits"; but anyone who is serious about their training should learn to take hits, at least as an "insurance".

True, no one can train themselves to take hits on the chin, eyes, balls (I'm still not convinced) etc. And there are many other areas that cannot be conditioned. But at least decrease the number of targets the opponent can capitalise on, and increase the force necessary to strike you down.

[Hendrik]

Seeing as how many Okinawan karate practitioners seem to be able to practice their art into their advanced years i think its best to say they know what they are doing no?

i have an incident with an okinawan train karate ka friend on this.
he insists on testing it. and cause him to sick for a few week taking a strike.

So, sure, ordinary punch might be ok. not WCK inch strike, the penetration and density is like a bullet. just no point to test it.

[Hendrik]

Seriously guys.... what's the chance of getting in a confrontation WITHOUT getting a scratch? Unless the you are way way way better than the opponent, he will land some hits on you. Don't forget, unless your attacker is a total idiot, he is going to size up his odds before fighting you. Which means most fights occur only when the attacker has a good chance of taking you out.

If you can't handle a few hits, you are going to fall. I am not advocating "taking hits" over "issuing hits"; but anyone who is serious about their training should learn to take hits, at least as an "insurance".

True, no one can train themselves to take hits on the chin, eyes, balls (I'm still not convinced) etc. And there are many other areas that cannot be conditioned. But at least decrease the number of targets the opponent can capitalise on, and increase the force necessary to strike you down.



John,

IMHO,
Not the Cold Jin. one strike in the front of the body it penetrate to the back of the body. even people with iron body or taiji expert they cant take it. it is just too high a density.

recently after I watch an advance fajin demo with different part of the body. I told this famous taiji master, I said, it takes only one year to train to strike the point jin but a ten years trainner might not be able to recieve or handle the jin. he told me, it might be possible to handle but I rather not to face that type of jin.

in my opinion, forget about the iron body or recieving jin....etc. because in real life that is not very practical stuffs. too late and too many things easy to go wrong. not to mention the over confident get one into serious trouble.

if cannot avoid the strike, use the strike to bounce off to dissipate the power instead of take it as the macho sensei. that is suicide. those type of training get one into a habit of take the strike full power.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Seeing as how many Okinawan karate practitioners seem to be able to practice their art into their advanced years i think its best to say they know what they are doing no?

Only the ones that do not die of failed livers or crushed hearts.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Seriously guys.... what's the chance of getting in a confrontation WITHOUT getting a scratch? Unless the you are way way way better than the opponent, he will land some hits on you. Don't forget, unless your attacker is a total idiot, he is going to size up his odds before fighting you. Which means most fights occur only when the attacker has a good chance of taking you out.

If you can't handle a few hits, you are going to fall. I am not advocating "taking hits" over "issuing hits"; but anyone who is serious about their training should learn to take hits, at least as an "insurance".

True, no one can train themselves to take hits on the chin, eyes, balls (I'm still not convinced) etc. And there are many other areas that cannot be conditioned. But at least decrease the number of targets the opponent can capitalise on, and increase the force necessary to strike you down.

I don't think anyone is ever going to get into a serious fight that is not going to take a few shots. It happens. The idea here is to minimize this occurance. Most times when we take a shot it is not a full force or even close to full force as it is most likely a glancing blow or one that is chasing you as you retreat. If you take a full force blow, chances are you are going down.
As a teenager my jiujitsu instructor was taking me through a scenario where you would be fighting in a room with furniture and other structure. He subdued my striking arm, forcing it across my body, neutralizing both arms in the process. At the same time he was forcing me back until I made contact with structure and went backward over it. He then lightly slapped me with a downward open palm into the solar plexus. That is the area where the abdomen meets the ribs in the center. The wave of shock energy went downward and by the count of 5 I was on the floor. It took my breath, and the pain felt like I was having a 12 foot log chain being dragged out my butt. I had about the hardest stomach of anyone I have ever known or seen too. The solar plexus stoke became my most favorite from then on.

[Vajramusti]

Some other "testing" cases.
In the Las Cruces, NM and El Paso Texas area there used to be a an old school Japanese sensei
who insisted that his students trust him enough to let him choke them and then revive them. Also in a university activity class he would, until he was told to desist,throw his students against the walls in the activity room
if they violated his dojo protocol.

In Ed Parker's kenpo- once upon a time the black belt prospect had to stand still and take a kick in the gut from his sensei.

I would decline either test.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Seeing as how many Okinawan karate practitioners seem to be able to practice their art into their advanced years i think its best to say they know what they are doing no?

There might be something to what you are saying, but it could just be that some survive to practice in old age in spite of their art. Also, other factors unrelated to the martial arts practice might allow people to practice to old age.

[k gledhill]

102 ! Chu Chung Man of Weng Chun

[sanjuro_ronin]

Learning how to take a shot is and always has been part of EVERY single style of MA training.
The method used by typical Okinawan is to focus taking body shots in the one area that can be best conditioned, the stomach.
It is not and has never been a method to take shots ANYWHERE ELSE.
Part of the training is to position oneself in a way that a liver shot ( for example) does NOT land in the liver but lands on the conditioned stomach.
You'd think that every MA that has actually fought would know this.
Obviously not on this forum.
Sure there are excpetions to this, silly people that do silly things to themselves, but they are the exception and not the rule.
Once again, the drill is used to condition the stomach area ( abs) to take shots WHILE fighting ( not just standing there) and to learn how to position oneself so that any strike that does get through ( and in a fight strike get through) will NOT hit a vital spot but make impact where we want it to.