Hamstring curls?

[Scarletmantis]

Hey folks, it's been a long time since I've posted on this forum. The "Training and Health" section has matured nicely over the past few months, and I'm happy to say that I've finally found some useful stuff!

Ironfist, I am especially grateful for your posts on the "100 pushups" program. I've been on it for four weeks now. Very, very nice.

I also recently bought a gym membership (thanks to all of your inspiration!) and have been implementing a wieght training routine. I've got a few questions though.

The machine that trains the hamstring curl requires that you stand on one leg and curl with the other. Is this position recommended?

I've been squatting 310, Quad lifting 160 (both legs), and curling 60 (one leg). I do this for five sets of five on all exercises, usually failing on the fifth rep. Is this too intense?

My knees were bothering me the other day, and it all seemed to be inflamed by the hamstring curls. If I shouldn't be doing them that way, what exercise might yield similar benifits for the hammies?

Thanks for your help!

"The essence of life is struggle and it's goal is domination. There are higher goals and deeper meanings, but they exist only within the mind of man. The reality of life is war."

- The Way and the Power

[Kumkuat]

Try stiff legged deadlifts instead of hamstring curls, they both bascially work the same leg muscles. Make sure to lower the bar far enough that you won't round your back. You're also probably overtraining, I think one day of heavy squatting would be adequate.

[Scott R. Brown]

ScarletMantis,

I have been training in the MA for 27 years and have weight trained the entire time. I have worked as an exercise trainer and I am a nurse.

The question of overtraining is not necessarily a yes or no answer. It depends on a number of factors.

1) How many days a week are you training?
2) How are your workouts split? One day on, one day off, two on, one off?
3) How are your body pa

[Scott R. Brown]

ScarletMantis,

I have been training in the MA for 27 years and have weight trained the entire time. I have worked as an exercise trainer and I am a nurse.

The question of overtraining is not necessarily a yes or no answer. It depends on a number of factors.

1) How many days a week are you training?
2) How are your workouts split? One day on, one day off, two on, one off?
3) How are your body parts split? Upper body one day, lower body the next? Push exercises one day, pull exercises the next? Some other program?
4) Are you training to failure everyday? This is an absolute no-no!!!
5) What are your other physical activities? Do you have a physical job? How intense is your MA workout and how often is it?
6) How long have you been weight training? The longer you have trained the greater you recovery ability.
7) Cardio-vascular fitness will also increase you recovery ability.
8) The amount people can train is also affected by their genetic makeup. What is overtraining for me may not be overtraining for you.

In general the lower the repetition, scheme the more rest you should have between workouts or repeating the exercises for each muscle grou

[Scott R. Brown]

ScarletMantis,

I have been training in the MA for 27 years and have weight trained the entire time. I have worked as an exercise trainer and I am a nurse.

The question of overtraining is not necessarily a yes or no answer. It depends on a number of factors.

1) How many days a week are you training?
2) How are your workouts split? One day on, one day off, two on, one off?
3) How are your body parts split? Upper body one day, lower body the next? Push exercises one day, pull exercises the next? Some other program?
4) Are you training to failure everyday? This is an absolute no-no!!!
5) What are your other physical activities? Do you have a physical job? How intense is your MA workout and how often is it?
6) How long have you been weight training? The longer you have trained the greater you recovery ability.
7) Cardio-vascular fitness will also increase you recovery ability.
8) The amount people can train is also affected by their genetic makeup. What is overtraining for me may not be overtraining for you.

In general the lower the repetition, scheme the more rest you should have between workouts or repeating the exercises for each muscl

[IronFist]

Overtraining is more a question of how do you feel, not how hard are you training.

The same workout may overtrain one person, and not bother another person at all. Some symptoms of overtraining are:

Excessive tiredness
Lack of motivation
Inability to mentally focus
No desire to train

Hey those all sound like the same thing don't they. Well you get the idea. If you're still going strong and looking forward to the next workout, you're probably not overtraining.

Iron

[Ford Prefect]

Iron, that sounds like me after taking a week long break from lifting. :)

Scarlet,

You ever try body curls. Not exactly sure what they are called, but you pad your knees, lay down flat on your stomach, weigh down the back of your ankles, and then lift your body off the floor by bending at the knee joint(shins are the only thing that stays on the ground). They are pretty fun.

[Scarletmantis]

Yeah Ford, that does sound like fun. I'll give it a go on friday. Thanks everyone else, as far as overtraining goes I think I'll be fine. I only lift heavy twice a week and my knees aren't bothering me anymore. Stance training sure is tough now that I've added the squats though... ;)

"The essence of life is struggle and it's goal is domination. There are higher goals and deeper meanings, but they exist only within the mind of man. The reality of life is war."

- The Way and the Power

[Sharky]

Excessive tiredness
Lack of motivation
Inability to mentally focus
No desire to train

Yea, thats me. But it's like when you read about some symptoms in a medical book - you think you got em all!

================================================== =
The battle started with a grapple, he had real long hair so a grabbed a hand full, and chopped 'em in the Adams-apple, his partner in back of you tried to attack you, so I'ma twist 'em up like a pret-zel then I'ma tag you/I can't believe he wanna grapple again, I swung 'em around like I was dancing wit 'em, put his arms in back of his head and snapped 'em again, I fractured his limbs and put em in the figure-"6 subtracted from 10"...

[Scott R. Brown]

ScarletMantis,

I have been training in the MA for 27 years and have weight trained the entire time. I have worked as an exercise trainer and I am a nurse.

The question of overtraining is not necessarily a yes or no answer. It depends on a number of factors.

1) How many days a week are you training?
2) How are your workouts split? One day on, one day off, two on, one off?
3) How are your body parts split? Upper body one day, lower body the next? Push exercises one day, pull exercises the next? Some other program?
4) Are you training to failure everyday? This is an absolute no-no!!!
5) What are your other physical activities? Do you have a physical job? How intense is your MA workout and how often is it?
6) How long have you been weight training? The longer you have trained the greater you recovery ability.
7) Cardio-vascular fitness will also increase you recovery ability.
8) The amount people can train is also affected by their genetic makeup. What is overtraining for me may not be overtraining for you.

In general the lower the repetition, scheme the more rest you should have between workouts or repeating the exercises for each muscle group.

Signs of overtraining are: sore muscles, malaise (feeling tired all the time), trouble sleeping, irritability, and frequent injuries. Dehydration will also contribute to overtraining. Drink plenty of water during your workouts.

The fewer non-weight training activities you participate in the more intensely you can weight train.

If you are training in the 5-rep range, you should only exercise each muscle group 1-2 days per week. If you train a muscle group 2 days a week the 2nd day should be a light day approx. 70%-85% of the weight you lifted on the heavy day.

Train on a 6-12 week progressive program so that you are not lifting heavy all the time. Start light and increase the weights every week for 6-12 weeks. Then take a 1-2 weeks rest before beginning your next training cycle. The scientific literature suggests that over 3 sets per exercise is generally a waste of effort and 2 exercises per muscle group is fine unless you are a bodybuilder. Most people get their weight training information from bodybuilding magazines. These workouts are not for athletes they are for people who want to be bodybuilders. Olympic and professional athletes weight train on progressive cycles and according to the needs of their sport, not as bodybuilders train.

Stiff-legged deadlifts work a different portion of your leg bicep than leg curls. The leg curl works the muscle belly, similar to the peak of your arm bicep. Stiff legged deadlifts work the lower back and the leg bicep where it integrates with the buttock muscles. Some call it the ham-glute tie-in. A well-rounded leg bicep work out will include both exercises. Caution should always be used to prevent lower back injury.

1) Do not lock out your knees. Keep them slightly bent.
2) Do not lift too heavy. Especially if you have never done them. Increase weight slowly..
3) Do kicks before you stiff-dead and lift lightly. Do not do kicks after you stiff dead or the following day. Stiff-deads are an intense exercise and if you lift too heavy, you may need 2-3 days before you perform kicks again.
4) Keep the back flat when performing stiff-deads.
5) Be sure you have the flexibility to go down as far as you do when performing the exercise.
6) This is not an exercise you want to do improperly. It is an excellent exercise when performed properly. Take the time to learn it properly and start with light weights.

I hope this helps you out.

Sincerely,

Scott

[Scarletmantis]

Thank you very much Scott. I was lifting heavy twice a week, but found it too exhausting when coupled with four to six days of Kung Fu. I'm on a five rep routine, and I spend about an hour and a half working my entire body, but I only do it once a week right now.
My goal is to increase power and gain some weight. I'm worried that I won't make significant gains if I only lift once a week. What do you guys think?

"The essence of life is struggle and it's goal is domination. There are higher goals and deeper meanings, but they exist only within the mind of man. The reality of life is war."

- The Way and the Power

[Lost_Disciple]

Full body workout once a week?
You're threatening overtraining, seriously.
That much time in the gym is really pushing it. I think it's best to keep it between 30 minutes and 1 hr 15 minutes.
By training the whole body, you're building up a massive amount of ATP- the acid that causes soreness. A lot of times it's the body's inability to adequately flush out this acid that leads to symptoms of overtraining.

What I did, was break my workouts into upper and lower body- only working out twice a week. A lot of people here don't recommend doing squats and deadlifts on the same day- so you'd probably need more than a single day a week to avoid going too hard on any given day. I did them both on my leg day and by keeping my reps low, not going to failure, I was able to avoid overtraining.

A note on those hamstring machines- only do the one where you're lying down. I've read that the sitting one and the standing one can cause joint problems- something about them encouraging your knee to bend at awkward angles.

Good luck. :)
.

Just some thoughts from an ignoramus.

[Ford Prefect]

It would be much more beneficial to train a small amount every day (20 minutes) than spend just one heavy day in the gym. Studies have shown that testosterone production falls heavily after 45 minutes of working out, so the returns for any work done 45 minutes into a workout are greatly deminished. You can hit your whole body, by working out for only 20 minutes per day 5 days per week. Try this out for a few months. You'll gain much strength, but unfortunately you won't put on much mass.

Weeks 1&2 (10 total workouts)
-Deadlift 2x5
-Push-Press 2x5
-Weighted Pull-ups 2x5

Weeks 3&4
-Squat 2x5
-Bench Press 2x5
-Weighted Chin-ups 2x5

Repeat...

Principles to follow
1) Start the cycles off light with a weight you could easily do 10 reps with. Add a few pounds every day, so you'll be doing a near maximal lift in your last workout. Set one will be your heavier set, and set two will be 90% the weight of set one.
2) Never work to failure. Even on your last workout of the cycle, use a weight that you could get another rep or two in good form with.
3) Rest 2-5 minutes between sets
4) When starting cycles over again, start with a weight a little heavier than the one your started with last time, and work your way up to a weight a little heavier than you lifted last time.

for example:

Deadlift cycle 1
1) 175x5 160x5
2) 180x5 165x5
3) 185x5 170x5
4) 190x5 175x5
5) 195x5 180x5
6) 200x5 180x5
7) 205x5 185x5
8) 210x5 190x5
9) 215x5 195x5
10) 220x5 200x5 -Respectable for a beginner

Deadlift cycle 2
1) 185x5 170x5 -started a bit heavier
2) 190x5 175x5
3) 195x5 180x5
4) 200x5 180x5
5) 205x5 185x5
6) 210x5 190x5
7) 215x5 195x5
8) 220x5 200x5
9) 225x5 205x5
10) 230x5 205x5 -you just added 10 lbs to your max in 10 days of working on the lift!

As you can see, cycling the poundages and not failing is the key to this program and to consistent strength gains. Not only that, but not going to failure will not wear you out for martial arts practice and it actually has a tonic, energinizing effect on the nervous system. All in 20 minutes per day. Not bad. For more info on principles like these go to:

http://www.dragondoor.com and look for "Power to the People"

[Scott R. Brown]

I agree with Lost_Disciple & Ford Prefect it is better to do small amounts more frequently.

You cannot expect to train maximally in weight training and Kung Fu at the same time. You can cycle both programs throughout the year or you can focus on one intensely and lighten up on the other. 6 days a week of Kung Fu is fine if you are not training intensely. It seems like your main goal now is weight training.

I would split your body into two workouts and train 3 days a week, alternating workouts. Sometimes I will run two cycles at once on an 8 week cycle:

Workout one:

1) Back
2) Chest
3) Back
4) Chest
5) Lower Back
6) Biceps

Workout two:

1) Thighs
2) Shoulders
3) Thighs
4) Shoulders
5) Triceps
6) Hamstrings

I will work the back and lower back exercises, shoulders and triceps on an 8 week cycle. The chest and biceps, thighs and hamstring workouts will be on an 8 week cycle as well, but will not start until the 5th week of the back and thigh cycle cycle. This way your body is receiving a lot of rest. Your body does not max out on all the exercises in a single day or single week. You will max on three exercises/day and then 4 weeks later you will max again on the three other exercises/day. This way you are not stressing out your entire body at one time. It is the rest in-between your workouts in which you become stronger. Rest is very important. If you train your entire body in a single workout once, twice or three times a week you are stressing your entire system and it takes a much longer time to recover.

Because you are training in an activity other than weight training you must carefully plan your program so that you are not over doing it. You may consider lifting 3 days a week and Kung Fu 3 days a week. Especially if you are weight training in the low rep range as this requires much more recovery time. If you feel the compulsion to continue training in Kung fu 6 days a week, work slowly on technique with one or two intense days. Do not over fatigue your self in your Kung Fu workouts. You will be much more susceptible to injury following heavy lifting days as you are nearing your maximal weights, so be cautious.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Scott

[BAI HE]

I've heard the only muscles you can workout every day are the calves. Any truth to this?

Any way Here is my weight routine:

day 1
Jog 20 min - to target heart rate
Chest and back
Abs
Jog 20 min - to target heart rate

day 2
Jog 20 min - to target heart rate
shoulders and legs
(lots of squats and shrugs)
(a lot of Hindu squats before weighted squats, got to0 warm up my old bones)
Light lower back rowing.
Jog 20 min - to target heart rate

day 3
Jog 20 min - to target heart rate
(push ups to warm)
Bicep, tricep forearm
Jog 20 min - to target heart rate

The jogging really gets me into my target heart rate which is essential to making gains for me.
My program is simplistic by I work hard on safe exercises and proper form in relation to my body type.
I'm a big believer in rest and recovery. You have one recovery system. The same one that gets you over a cold also helps you recover from the grind of a workout. NEVER WORK OUT WHEN YOUR SICK.

I still have alot to learn though, especially about the nutritional aspects of fitness.

Also, I'm very fortunate to have a running track 100 yards from my house and a bowflex in the other room. I know how hard dragging your azz to the gym can be when your tired and unmotivated.
But keep going!!!

[Scott R. Brown]

BAI HE

It is possible to work any muscle everyday depending upon how you train it. In general the lower the weights and higher the weight the more rest you require. The higher the reps the lighter the weight the less rest you require. Also the more often you train to failure the greater the rest you need. It is best not to train to failure any more than 2-4 weeks every 6-12 weeks. The program you have looks fine. If it works for you stay with it. When it becomes tedious or you are not gaining fast enough change it around a little bit. It is very important for a workout to be enjoyable.

Scott

[Ford Prefect]

Bai He,

Exactly what are your goals? I'm sure I could come up with something to suit your needs unless you are just looking for pure body building/looks.