old school steelwire mants

[Frost]

forgot about this style, used to be quite popular here in the uk, nice to see mantis guys sparring and making contact even if its mainly to the body, 3.05 for some nice use of a motorcycle helmet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsovkA8fGJU

[sanjuro_ronin]

Isn't steelwire a combination of Chow Gar and Hung Gar?

[Frost]

Isn't steelwire a combination of Chow Gar and Hung Gar?

yep, tony leung combined both arts in the 90's, think he was quite high up in chow gar before he developed steelwire thinks hes a shaolin disciple now

[sanjuro_ronin]

yep, tony leung combined both arts in the 90's, think he was quite high up in chow gar before he developed steelwire thinks hes a shaolin disciple now

Its funny, my SPM teacher's older brother is a Hung Kuen guy ( that is where I meet my SPM teacher) and he n ever combined them per say, though he did take a few things he liked ( Iron wire for one).
He preferred to combine his SPM with Western Boxing ( although combine is perhaps to strong a word).

[Frost]

Its funny, my SPM teacher's older brother is a Hung Kuen guy ( that is where I meet my SPM teacher) and he n ever combined them per say, though he did take a few things he liked ( Iron wire for one).
He preferred to combine his SPM with Western Boxing ( although combine is perhaps to strong a word).

never trained it but i heard they trained the two side by side, i think he branched out when the Ips made paul witrod there rep in the uk (think he had trained longer but not sure)

[Chris m]

I did Steelwire Mantis for 4 lessons, just before starting Hung Kuen Jing Chung in '96, always felt wrong the training and atmosphere too, Tony Leung had a problem with my teacher when Leung tried to claim lineage with Chan Hon Chung si-gung (coz he had a photo taken with him, although previously Leung claimed Chiu Wai lineage??. Hung Gar n Chow Gar dont mix.

As for the Ip's choosing Paul Whitrod, a close friend of my teacher-I was lucky to meet Ip Sui a few times coz he loved our Mo See, Leung is supposed to have offered cash as a bribe, for number one in UK/Europe status and this offended the Ips

[charp choi]

I did Steelwire Mantis for 4 lessons, just before starting Hung Kuen Jing Chung in '96, always felt wrong the training and atmosphere too, Tony Leung had a problem with my teacher when Leung tried to claim lineage with Chan Hon Chung si-gung (coz he had a photo taken with him, although previously Leung claimed Chiu Wai lineage??. Hung Gar n Chow Gar dont mix.

As for the Ip's choosing Paul Whitrod, a close friend of my teacher-I was lucky to meet Ip Sui a few times coz he loved our Mo See, Leung is supposed to have offered cash as a bribe, for number one in UK/Europe status and this offended the Ips


interesting. I didn't know that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I did Steelwire Mantis for 4 lessons, just before starting Hung Kuen Jing Chung in '96, always felt wrong the training and atmosphere too, Tony Leung had a problem with my teacher when Leung tried to claim lineage with Chan Hon Chung si-gung (coz he had a photo taken with him, although previously Leung claimed Chiu Wai lineage??. Hung Gar n Chow Gar dont mix.

As for the Ip's choosing Paul Whitrod, a close friend of my teacher-I was lucky to meet Ip Sui a few times coz he loved our Mo See, Leung is supposed to have offered cash as a bribe, for number one in UK/Europe status and this offended the Ips

Actually HK and SPM do mix, just not at the same time and not as a "blend".
That said one of the issues with SPM is that you MAY (note I said MAY) need something else to "unlock" it.
Some find that "key" in other CMA like hung kuen, others find it outside, my sifu found it in western boxing, Sifu Whitrod found it in the Indian arts.

[Chris m]

Of course anybody can learn as many different styles as they want, but Steelwire mantis threw it all together in a mess, first Lau Gar Kuen, then some Chow Gar drills, it just felt horrible. People learning multiple styles separately is excellent.... But that was just chop suey crap

[sanjuro_ronin]

Of course anybody can learn as many different styles as they want, but Steelwire mantis threw it all together in a mess, first Lau Gar Kuen, then some Chow Gar drills, it just felt horrible. People learning multiple styles separately is excellent.... But that was just chop suey crap

Well...I have never seen it so I can't comment on that.
I don't place much stock in demos as being able to show what a style is really about and I have only seen demos of it, so...

[charp choi]

some more footage here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcX9TC33tRs&feature=related

and here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VtRHtPJbI0&feature=related

[Frost]

some more footage here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcX9TC33tRs&feature=related

and here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VtRHtPJbI0&feature=related

nice liked he first clip lots of contact work and some of it gloved up :)

[charp choi]

nice liked he first clip lots of contact work and some of it gloved up :)

There's a lot of contact in Chow Gar anyway. Stink of jow all the time. ;)

Tony C has a good rep in kf circles.

[Frost]

There's a lot of contact in Chow Gar anyway. Stink of jow all the time. ;)

Tony C has a good rep in kf circles.

pre arranged contact work is a bit diffeent to full on hard contact sparring as they were doing
Dont see much of that in the hakka arts on line to good to see

[sanjuro_ronin]

contact work is a bit diffeent to full on hard contact sparring as they were doing
Dont see much of that in the hakka arts on line to good to see

Which is one of the reason why some have a hard time "translating" their art into their practical ( and those that do have some practical in their background already).
I remember my SPM teacher saying to me (when he found out I had boxing and kyokushin in my background), "Good, you are ahead of the curve, you understand fighting already".

[Frost]

Which is one of the reason why some have a hard time "translating" their art into their practical ( and those that do have some practical in their background already).
I remember my SPM teacher saying to me (when he found out I had boxing and kyokushin in my background), "Good, you are ahead of the curve, you understand fighting already".

no argument from me, you know i think its better to have a sports background going into these arts

My Sifus teacher came from a hung gar and CLF background (where they fought alot) into the hakka arts, and he always felt those in the short hand stuff that didn’t come from a fighting background paid too much attention to the esoteric in the arts and made them too complicated

[sanjuro_ronin]

no argument from me, you know i think its better to have a sports background going into these arts

My Sifus teacher came from a hung gar and CLF background (where they fought alot) into the hakka arts, and he always felt those in the short hand stuff that didn’t come from a fighting background paid too much attention to the esoteric in the arts and made them too complicated

I agree.
Funny but my Sifu doesn't think much of kyokushin ( other than it makes you a good punching bag, LOL) but he is a huge fan of boxing.
He boxed in his 20's and still like to lace it up and go a few rounds.

[Frost]

I agree.
Funny but my Sifu doesn't think much of kyokushin ( other than it makes you a good punching bag, LOL) but he is a huge fan of boxing.
He boxed in his 20's and still like to lace it up and go a few rounds.

Teachers who boxed, did wrestling or judo in their youth are the best ones to learn from in my experience, they know contact, expect it and are hard to pull the wool over
For me personally the hardest sparring I have ever done is boxing, not being able to kick or knee, not being able to clinch and throw but just going hands only for rounds is tough its not funny (actually scratch that the hardest sparring I have ever done is non attached clinch range boxing, start off shoulder to shoulder and start hitting from there, you cant clinch and you cant separate just round after round of close in boxing, hate it)
I can see your sifus point lol, standing there punching the body without head contact can teach bad habits, have seen this in MMA too back in the day when amateur meant only body shots, there was no need for movement really you just steamed in lol
Now I know you have pointed out true kyokushin allows head shots in sparring just not comps, but a lot of clubs I have seen only do the no head shot run in sparring as well
Personally I like to mix it all in, body shot only sparring to allow no glove work (with head shots shown but not connected hard) , MMA gloves to allow harder contact as well as grappling and then boxing gloves to go hard

[sanjuro_ronin]

I went into kyokushin because I got a taste of hard contact from doing Okinawan Goju in Portugal as a teenager ( as well as boxing, judo and wrestling).
Kyokushin was the only place I could get that in Karate here.
Luckily my sensei was a polish freak that had done MT so he loved head shots, LOL !
But most kyokushin is now so "sport specific" that it's lost a bit of its "fighting karate" mentality.
Kyokushin was always more "MT with a GI with karate hands" than anything else in the old days.
But I digress.
I believe that the more "specialized" a system is, the more CRUCIAL it is to "cross test" VS other systems, my sifu is of the same notion.
There are times when he askes me to "box" my fellow mantis students to give them a "taste" of boxing/MT and it is a rude awkening for them.
Our group is smaller now, one of the guys left late late last year and the other is more iregular...
At this stage what I am doing is making HIS mantis MY OWN, but I do miss the sparring.

[Frost]

I have noticed that the more traditional (ie contact orientated) a tcma club is the less students seem to attend and stick around, I honestly think that those attracted to TCMA these days don’t want to get hit, and those that WOULD like that training head of to the local Thai or MMA club (they are simply better known for providing that type of training)
Me I feel lucky to be getting what I feel is good instruction in both TCMA and MMA and to to able to test what I am learning at different clubs,

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have noticed that the more traditional (ie contact orientated) a tcma club is the less students seem to attend and stick around, I honestly think that those attracted to TCMA these days don’t want to get hit, and those that WOULD like that training head of to the local Thai or MMA club (they are simply better known for providing that type of training)
Me I feel lucky to be getting what I feel is good instruction in both TCMA and MMA and to to able to test what I am learning at different clubs,

I don't know, can' comment on that.
My SPM and HK Sifu are about an hour away, so I visit them a few times a month.
The rest of the time I train and workout at home, sometimes go to the local MT/MMA gym for some sparring ans such.
Life...
I think that certain gyms attract certain types and certain MA attract certain types too.
You get what you put in.
My Hung Kuen Sifu had a commercial school and closed it years ago and retired to teach "the way it is supposed to be taught" -small group and family.
His brother never had a school and never wanted to teach but loves to "coach and give pointers".
There are pros and cons to this:
Pros is you get serious quality time with a teacher.
Cons is you do NOT get the sparring variety you need unless you go looking for it outside.

[Ben Gash]

I have noticed that the more traditional (ie contact orientated) a tcma club is the less students seem to attend and stick around, I honestly think that those attracted to TCMA these days don’t want to get hit, and those that WOULD like that training head of to the local Thai or MMA club (they are simply better known for providing that type of training)
Me I feel lucky to be getting what I feel is good instruction in both TCMA and MMA and to to able to test what I am learning at different clubs,

Yes and yes. The people I've had come to watch or trial who seem horrified when we spend an hour gloved up doing contact drills. Also yes this identity crisis means that the people who are interested in this type of training either go to combat sports or Krav Maga.