KL22 targeting strategy

[imperialtaichi]

This is reposted from my Facebook "Kulo Wing Chun 22 Sansau" page:

"Ok, I always talk about attack. But what are we attacking? Target selection as follows:

1. The target MUST shut down the opponent immediately: either by the amount of damage, or destroying his balance/structure/momentum or disrupting his psychology.
2. The target must be easy/fast/convenient.
3. The target must give you opportunity to continue your domination/control over your opponent.

Do not attempt to go for the "kill shot" as initial target unless it also satisfies the above criteria. Once you dominate your fight, you will have plenty of time to neutralize your opponent however you please."

Cheers.

[imperialtaichi]

I would also add number 4. target we are going for must not expose our weaknesses or compromise our balance/structure.

[Hendrik]

These are great!

Thanks for sharing!

[Frost]

its great that you have the ability in the middle of a fight to ensure all these are met, most people simply try to hit as hard as they can and hope for the best :)

[wtxs]

its great that you have the ability in the middle of a fight to ensure all these are met, most people simply try to hit as hard as they can and hope for the best :)

Reality check for sure.

[sanjuro_ronin]

its great that you have the ability in the middle of a fight to ensure all these are met, most people simply try to hit as hard as they can and hope for the best :)

Granted that is THE place to start BUT I have to say that (and this may be the sniper in me talking) I find the notion of "vital point aiming" to be very important.
Although probably NOT for the same reasons others do:
Sniper 101 - Aim small, miss small, aim big, miss big.

[Frost]

Granted that is THE place to start BUT I have to say that (and this may be the sniper in me talking) I find the notion of "vital point aiming" to be very important.
Although probably NOT for the same reasons others do:
Sniper 101 - Aim small, miss small, aim big, miss big.
i see your point but when going full on its hard to narrow like that i find, targets like the neck, temple, groin, liver maybe but smaller targets...im not sure i could pull that off unless i was a lot better than the other guy
i tend to go the other way, try to develop as much power as possible so what ever i hit it hurts him..well that the theory lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

i see your point but when going full on its hard to narrow like that i find, targets like the neck, temple, groin, liver maybe but smaller targets...im not sure i could pull that off unless i was a lot better than the other guy
i tend to go the other way, try to develop as much power as possible so what ever i hit it hurts him..well that the theory lol

It takes awhile but I have found that certain drills work well, one of them being dots painted on a dummy.
As you work out you are automatically drawn to hit those dots.
When you fight those dots "appear" on your opponent :D
Again, you still have to KNOW how to fight and deal with the stimuli but what you are really just doing is "fine tuning" the target -
Instead of head, it becomes Jaw, instead of jaw it becomes chin, know what I mean?

You also find that your strikes become "cleaner", "neater".
Back to the sniper analogy:
When you look through a scope its all over the place, but you focus on a smaller point and the scope moves less, focus on a smaller point it moves even less, etc..

In practical terms:
I go for a chest shot: I don't focus on the chest, I don't focus on the heart I don't focus on the name on the nametag on the chest, I focus on the inside of the letter "O" on the name tag.

[Frost]

It takes awhile but I have found that certain drills work well, one of them being dots painted on a dummy.
As you work out you are automatically drawn to hit those dots.
When you fight those dots "appear" on your opponent :D
Again, you still have to KNOW how to fight and deal with the stimuli but what you are really just doing is "fine tuning" the target -
Instead of head, it becomes Jaw, instead of jaw it becomes chin, know what I mean?

You also find that your strikes become "cleaner", "neater".
Back to the sniper analogy:
When you look through a scope its all over the place, but you focus on a smaller point and the scope moves less, focus on a smaller point it moves even less, etc..

In practical terms:
I go for a chest shot: I don't focus on the chest, I don't focus on the heart I don't focus on the name on the nametag on the chest, I focus on the inside of the letter "O" on the name tag.

i also suspect it needs a hell of a lot of time under fire to be good at ie a lot of fight experience to be able to it those spots in the heat of a fight

[sanjuro_ronin]

i also suspect it needs a hell of a lot of time under fire to be good at ie a lot of fight experience to be able to it those spots in the heat of a fight

Well, yeah :D
Just like marksmanship under fire takes more training than random bursts from a submachine gun.

[wingchunIan]

Depends what you mean by vital spots. Whenever I fight I am aiming my shots to the jic seen of the opponent and hitting their chung sum seen with full force. The throat, eyes, temples and ears (along with spine, base of skull etc) are all easy to hit and become natural targets with training. All of them are vital to the opponent being able to continue and striking any one of them sufficiently hard will shut down the opponent immediately. The only thing I disagree with is the sentiment of not going for the "kill shot" immediately, every shot should be thrown to finish the fight but with the full expectation that it wont

[imperialtaichi]

It takes awhile but I have found that certain drills work well, one of them being dots painted on a dummy.
As you work out you are automatically drawn to hit those dots.
When you fight those dots "appear" on your opponent :D

Nice.

Although we don't paint dots on a dummy (I'm stealing this one btw ;-)), in KL22 we learn to "Tai Dim Ng Tai Kuen" which means we see the "Dots/Points" and we don't look at fists. These dots are basically biomechanical markers which indicates movements and major mechanical hubs. Control these points and we control the fight.

We train until this is second nature, habit. So it is not like we analysis the opponent as we get into a fight, but we naturally goes for these points. Much like you don't need to analysis a coffee mug to know where the handle is and how to hold it without burning your fingers.

Cheers.

[imperialtaichi]

The only thing I disagree with is the sentiment of not going for the "kill shot" immediately, every shot should be thrown to finish the fight but with the full expectation that it wont

If the kill shot is fast and easy and safe, then definitely; but I'm not going to compromise my safety to go out of my way to strike the kill target. Fighting a skilled fighter, expose your weaknesses for a split second and you are out.

If you have to kill a goat with a small knife, would you go for a kill shot straight away and hope for the best? Or would you pull down the goat, restrain it, then cut the throat?

If the opponent is controlled, you will have plenty of time to kill him safely.

[imperialtaichi]

Not exactly these points, but roughly this is what I see when I fight. I see the points, not the person.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=f8TFi6qvPbc

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nice.

Although we don't paint dots on a dummy (I'm stealing this one btw ;-)), in KL22 we learn to "Tai Dim Ng Tai Kuen" which means we see the "Dots/Points" and we don't look at fists. These dots are basically biomechanical markers which indicates movements and major mechanical hubs. Control these points and we control the fight.

We train until this is second nature, habit. So it is not like we analysis the opponent as we get into a fight, but we naturally goes for these points. Much like you don't need to analysis a coffee mug to know where the handle is and how to hold it without burning your fingers.

Cheers.

We tend to be visual creatures and as such if we can use that to increase our fighting skill, we should.
I remember in TKD we used to fight with those chest guards with the big red dots and you just couldn't help by aim for them, even when they weren't there your weapon found that target.
A buddy of mine used to wear a head band with the big red sun of Japan on it and you just couldn't help but drill him there !

[Ali. R]

This is reposted from my Facebook "Kulo Wing Chun 22 Sansau" page:

"Ok, I always talk about attack. But what are we attacking? Target selection as follows:

1. The target MUST shut down the opponent immediately: either by the amount of damage, or destroying his balance/structure/momentum or disrupting his psychology.
2. The target must be easy/fast/convenient.
3. The target must give you opportunity to continue your domination/control over your opponent.

Do not attempt to go for the "kill shot" as initial target unless it also satisfies the above criteria. Once you dominate your fight, you will have plenty of time to neutralize your opponent however you please."

Cheers.


Ok, I always talk about attack. But what are we attacking?

Take every fake as a real attack, and from their attack the attack. Don’t just go on defense when someone moves, but concentrate more on ‘Da’ or attacking the attack simultaneously striking and blocking when someone runs fakes.

If one continue to step back defensively because of fakes (no heart) his/her opponent will always keep them chasing hands, thinking more on blocking rather attacking.

Remember, when you take your opponents fakes as a real attack and while following through with your own attack, then your opponent is only faking himself out.

[Ali. R]

No one knows when someone is faking or not, but if one sees that pattern just think more on attacking the attack; this way, when he fakes, it will only hurt him/her rather than becoming a supplement within his –or- her arsenal.

[imperialtaichi]

"attacking the opponent's attack" is what I always say.

The other thing, I don't do "simultaneous defense and attack."
"Attack is my defense".

並非連消帶打，而是先打後消，以打為消。

[Ali. R]

"attacking the opponent's attack" is what I always say.

The other thing, I don't do "simultaneous defense and attack."
"Attack is my defense".

並非連消帶打，而是先打後消，以打為消。

That’s cool,

I’ve kind of figured that out; when I talk about attacking the attack, I’m talking about ‘kune sue kue’ as well (fist parries fist), using offensive movements as a defensive counter parts through bridge walking, which is usually taught in the Hong Kong systems.

[Ali. R]

If one attacks without bridge contact –or – without the idea of blocking while shutting down fighting lines (bridge walking), he would never gain control of his opponent’s center of mass allowing him/her to move their feet freely in defense and without being hit.

And if one’s feet are faster -or- the same as yours and without contesting one’s offensive/defensive fighting lines with the idea of shutting them down; by his/her feet being faster than your, believe me his/her hands may be also.

If your opponent is a headhunter it would make your fight a lot easier. By him/her making an attack without taking over one’s offensive/defensive fighting lines (free hands), he/she will be creating a bridge right to his/her own head, then walk that same bridge right to his brain.

And if you don't take over the fighting lines (bridge walking); as your skill level is the same -or- less than your opponent’s, it would be tit for tat and you will take a lot of hits/strikes, while turning the fight mostly into a counter punch match.