Experience

[hansolo]

Hello everyone, I am a new member. I don't know whether this thread should go in a different section but since its sort of related to kung fu, I posted it here. I am deeply sorry if this the wrong section but this my first post . I have been searching other forums over the internet about the topic of choosing a good sifu to start learning wing chun. There were many threads on such a topic, however, many didn't satisfy my curiosity. I have been searching for respectable sifu (who don't just teach for money) within the london area. I have found that Alan Orr, Leo au Yeung, Desmond Spencer and Austin Goh are popular and commonly suggested but I haven't found a comparison between the different sifu's. Since this is my first martial art I will probably study, I don't know what really makes up a good MA teacher. I would be grateful to know people's opinion's on these teachers (first hand experience or not), comparisons between the instructors, how they teach, what you think is the most effective, reasonable pricing for lessons (how much they charge) and similar questions. Thank you to anyone who responds in advance. I am very grateful to be part of this wonderful community

hansolo :)

[Chadderz]

Alan Orr dude! He's awesome!

[k gledhill]

Try them all out, make your mind up...its easy to go back to one you like, they will appreciate that you came back to them once you decide.

[Buddha_Fist]

Ditto. Try them all.

[Runlikehell]

Gotta agree with the advice posted, try them all, see and feel their approaches. Take the time to consider which one (if any) feels appropriate for you and choose one. As Kevin said, they'll appreciate that you came back. :)

[LoneTiger108]

London is a pretty big place and there are plenty of us around who have a non-commercial approach to coaching too, so it really depends on what you are looking for, why you want to train and how far you want to travel?

[WingChunABQ]

Chiming in:

Be clear about what you are trying to get out of studying martial arts, then try them all out.

Don't stick around with any 'gurus', avoid personality cults.

[hansolo]

ok... I'll definitely check them all out... why alan orr? has anyone had any experience austin goh or leo au yenug?

thanks

hansolo

[thedreamer7]

ok... I'll definitely check them all out... why alan orr? has anyone had any experience austin goh or leo au yenug?

thanks

hansolo

Leo Au Yeung's linage is pretty much excellent. He learnt his craft in Hong Kong and helped choreograph the Ip Man movies. He trains hard and I have yet to see anyone not have a hard time in chi sau with him.

Finding a good teacher is much about yourself as as much as the teacher. Go meet as many teachers as possible and see who you think you will get alone best with and are best suited to their style of teaching.

"Finding a good teacher is hard, finding a good student is even harder..."

[hansolo]

thanks.... does leo au yeung do sparring?



does anyone know about austin goh?

[altbus1]

thanks.... does leo au yeung do sparring?



does anyone know about austin goh?

I've had a seminar from him a few months ago. No doubt I liked his way of teaching. Only the part of internal energie was a bit hard to accept. (Maybe that's something for when I'm more advanced:))

[LoneTiger108]

does anyone know about austin goh?

Yes. He is my kung fu uncle.

And if you are looking for sparring I know he and his many students and instructors love to train for the fight! He has some very decent, skilled martial artists he has taught over the decades and some are still in London too.

Granted, he himself promote much more heigung and healing these days, but he still manages to get around to his classes. Chinatown based mainly so again it depends on your distance and expectations.

[hansolo]

thanks for the responses... they all sound good....leo au yeung seems to be my favourite at the moment though

[LoneTiger108]

Sifu Leo is a genuine nice guy with good students so a good place to start

[hansolo]

he looks the best for me

[thedreamer7]

he looks the best for me

Yep, you can't go wrong Sifu Leo.
Also this place is worth a look in London, http://www.ninobernardo.com/warehouse.html

Just avoid any place with belts or grading systems. They don't belong in Wing Chun.

[hansolo]

ok then... thanks.... austin goh uses sashes....is this bad?

[LFJ]

Just avoid any place with belts or grading systems. They don't belong in Wing Chun.

Sifu David Peterson had a grading structure for his school in Melbourne for very practical reasons, mainly to ensure students didn't miss any important material on their way to becoming proficient. It wasn't about money, as he only charged like $20 for each level, and nothing for instructor levels, because at that point a Sifu should be giving back to the student for being there so long.

If you avoided his school simply because it had a grading system in place, you'd be missing some really quality training, perhaps in exchange for mediocre training elsewhere.

Although I'd generally agree with you, it's always best to just try out each option. One trial class will provide plenty of information and not teach you any bad habits if the place is bogus.

[LoneTiger108]

Just avoid any place with belts or grading systems. They don't belong in Wing Chun.

And you know this how exactly?

What a Sifu does to monitor his students progression, and ultimately inspire the younger memebers of the class (like children under 16yrs) is completely up to them.

FWIW A formal assessment and grading structure was in oplace with Ip Man himself in his early years in Fatshan. And from all accounts, Ng Jung So had levels and stages in his curriculums too which were monitored with different colours.

I had a traditional Sifu too who monitored such things, but the colours were used to identify a students 'purpose' more than his grade. Just my experience.

[thedreamer7]

And you know this how exactly?

What a Sifu does to monitor his students progression, and ultimately inspire the younger memebers of the class (like children under 16yrs) is completely up to them.

FWIW A formal assessment and grading structure was in oplace with Ip Man himself in his early years in Fatshan. And from all accounts, Ng Jung So had levels and stages in his curriculums too which were monitored with different colours.

I had a traditional Sifu too who monitored such things, but the colours were used to identify a students 'purpose' more than his grade. Just my experience.

I have trained in Ip Chun's school in Hong Kong and trained at other martial arts schools across China. From what I have seen I have seen, I never seen belts, gradings or secrets. I have only seen these in West (apart from VT (Leung Ting stuff)). So its IMHO to avoid schools with these if your looking for something non-commercial.

I state this in this forum post, because the original post asked for non-commercial schools and adding belts and gradings is just a form of commercialisation. A good sifu knows the level of his student without charging a grading or belt.

[LoneTiger108]

I have trained in Ip Chun's school in Hong Kong and trained at other martial arts schools across China. From what I have seen I have seen, I never seen belts, gradings or secrets.

First off, do you mean you spent time training in these schools, like months/years, or you trained in a seminar there or something? And on the secret front, why would you have 'seen' anything secret, if it's a secret??!! ;) As far as I'm aware, Ip Chun and his international representatives all have a grading structure of sorts.


I state this in this forum post, because the original post asked for non-commercial schools and adding belts and gradings is just a form of commercialisation. A good sifu knows the level of his student without charging a grading or belt.

Ah! I get where you're coming from now. Non commercial Sifu do tend to train in jeans too, but personally I wouldn't recommend that either.

The bottom line is it really shouldn't matter if there are sashes/gradings or no such thing, Wing Chun is a personal system that requires a bit of a personal relationship with the coach/instructor/Sifu so make your choice on that.

[thedreamer7]

First off, do you mean you spent time training in these schools, like months/years, or you trained in a seminar there or something? And on the secret front, why would you have 'seen' anything secret, if it's a secret??!! ;) As far as I'm aware, Ip Chun and his international representatives all have a grading structure of sorts.


I have spent months at these places. I saw no belts at Ip Chun's school or in any place in China. IMHO the secret in martial arts is repetition and hard work. I my experience there are no secrets in martial arts, just people selling them.

[LoneTiger108]

IMHO the secret in martial arts is repetition and hard work. I my experience there are no secrets in martial arts, just people selling them.

I agree with you here 100%

But as for selling secrets... how is this possible if it's a secret? You mean, selling an exposed secret lol??!! ;)

[thedreamer7]

But as for selling secrets... how is this possible if it's a secret? You mean, selling an exposed secret lol??!! ;)

Do a simple search on google and you will be entertained.

[LoneTiger108]

Do a simple search on google and you will be entertained.

I really haven't got the time anymore! It must be so confusing for any newcomers :eek:

[LFJ]

adding belts and gradings is just a form of commercialisation. A good sifu knows the level of his student without charging a grading or belt.

I don't think you can say that fairly. You may be put off by colored belts and grading systems because of what they mean at typical commercial martial arts schools wherever you're from, but it's not necessarily always the case. It's not an accurate or fair assessment of a school to assume things simply based on their use of a grading system (like they aren't good sifu or doing it only for commercialism).

As mentioned, a grading system may be in place to ensure students aren't missing any important material or details on their way to becoming proficient. My reference to Sifu David Peterson was a good example. Not many would argue the depth of his knowledge or quality of his instruction. If you blindly walk away from high quality training because you don't like wearing colored belts or having levels of gradation, then you're looking for a fantasy gung-fu experience at the most "traditional" feeling place to you and not real training.

If you're really looking for quality training, it's always best to take a trial class and see what they are really about.

[hansolo]

your right.. it is very confusing :D ... although.... just to add in...sifu leo au yeing also does gradings...http://www.leowingchun.com/2009/06/grading.html

[thedreamer7]

I don't think you can say that fairly. You may be put off by colored belts and grading systems because of what they mean at typical commercial martial arts schools wherever you're from, but it's not necessarily always the case. It's not an accurate or fair assessment of a school to assume things simply based on their use of a grading system (like they aren't good sifu or doing it only for commercialism).

As mentioned, a grading system may be in place to ensure students aren't missing any important material or details on their way to becoming proficient. My reference to Sifu David Peterson was a good example. Not many would argue the depth of his knowledge or quality of his instruction. If you blindly walk away from high quality training because you don't like wearing colored belts or having levels of gradation, then you're looking for a fantasy gung-fu experience at the most "traditional" feeling place to you and not real training.

If you're really looking for quality training, it's always best to take a trial class and see what they are really about.

Fair point the Sifu could still be good. However that doesn't stop this being a form of commercialism and the original post asked for non-commercial schools.

[couch]

your right.. it is very confusing :D ... although.... just to add in...sifu leo au yeing also does gradings...http://www.leowingchun.com/2009/06/grading.html

Be careful, a lot of folks on forums have, even unbeknownst to them, ulterior motives when they respond.

Folks enjoy being part of a 'system,' lineage and 'family.' Therefore they have emotional ties with their responses.

Check out each school and then make an informed decision. Also, keep in mind your reasons for training and what you hope to get out of it. It would be very easy for you to ask someone if they teach sparring and for them to say yes or dismiss sparring as 'not real self-defense training.' Also, it would be very easy for someone to tell you that you'll spar and then play patty-cake drills for years with you. So don't be afraid to jump ship if after a while it's not heading where you want.

And sometimes you don't know what you like until you've discovered what you don't like.

[hansolo]

Thanks everyone...I am going to try out everybody. leo au yeung is my first trial

[lance]

Hello everyone, I am a new member. I don't know whether this thread should go in a different section but since its sort of related to kung fu, I posted it here. I am deeply sorry if this the wrong section but this my first post . I have been searching other forums over the internet about the topic of choosing a good sifu to start learning wing chun. There were many threads on such a topic, however, many didn't satisfy my curiosity. I have been searching for respectable sifu (who don't just teach for money) within the london area. I have found that Alan Orr, Leo au Yeung, Desmond Spencer and Austin Goh are popular and commonly suggested but I haven't found a comparison between the different sifu's. Since this is my first martial art I will probably study, I don't know what really makes up a good MA teacher. I would be grateful to know people's opinion's on these teachers (first hand experience or not), comparisons between the instructors, how they teach, what you think is the most effective, reasonable pricing for lessons (how much they charge) and similar questions. Thank you to anyone who responds in advance. I am very grateful to be part of this wonderful community

hansolo :)

I agree with everybody on this thread go and try these sifus out , then you ' ll know what sifu you really like . Experience has to start from somewhere it ' s not an overnight thing . Because , you have to get to know your sifu , and as times really goes by for you , you know who you really want to train with in wing chun .
Take your time , and be patient , mainly because you ' re the one whose going to get the experience .