No shoes, KF training?

[Blacktiger]

Went and trained with another KF group last night for a bit of fun.

Was really suprised that they dont wear shoes when they train.

They were not on mats, it was polished boards.

I found this really odd, everywhere I have been its ALWAYS been shoes on.

Anyone else come across this?

Had a great time but the shoe thing was odd :D

[Shaolin]

I didn't use shoes years ago when I did Kempo, I don't use them now when I train Thai boxing, wrestling or jiu jitsu. Even with my Shaolin coaches some days it's shoes, some days not; it's up to me. At my school my students can use the shoes that come with their sign up or go bare feet, it's up to them.

It's not odd, it's quite common. Maybe you just haven't been exposed to many other schools and practitioners yet.

[Blacktiger]

Can understand the MMA side of things.

Trained with a few groups in Oz as well as Shaolin, China etc and have never seen it for Kung Fu...

[mickey]

Greetings,

Barefoot is actually quite good. It encourages the use of the toes in maintaining a strong stance, enhancing muscle activation through movement. The thing is that the surface you are training on has to be antibacterial. It also encourages people to better address their "funk" before coming to class.

mickey

[David Jamieson]

shoes, no shoes, cloth shoes, rubber ones.

It doesn't really matter if you work on your footing.
I mean what are the odds you get in a confrontation and you happen to have your training shoes on? Pretty slim.

You should be able to do your stuff on almost any terrain in almost any footware. barefoot gives you the most connection to the ground.

My only issue with bare foot training or bare training is hygiene.
People can get lax in their ablutions and therefore become disgusting to train with.

But I digress... :)

[SPJ]

Shoes or no shoes are fine.
But mattress is important.

[mig]

Greetings,

Barefoot is actually quite good. It encourages the use of the toes in maintaining a strong stance, enhancing muscle activation through movement. The thing is that the surface you are training on has to be antibacterial. It also encourages people to better address their "funk" before coming to class.

mickey

Barefoot on the ground? If most of the people today wear shoes I wonder how much you can train on dirt or even grass barefoot.

[mickey]

Hi mig,

I would not recommend the ground or even beach sand. I was talking about an indoor training environment. Thank you for bringing my scope under focus.

mickey

[kuniggety]

Having studied okinawan karate, aikido, and kick boxing, I was surprised coming into the chinese martial arts world and seeing everyone with shoes on. I say just go with whatever feels comfortable for you but realize that the chances of you getting into a fight barefoot are probably a lot slimmer than you getting into one with shoes.

[Shaolin]

Can understand the MMA side of things.

Trained with a few groups in Oz as well as Shaolin, China etc and have never seen it for Kung Fu...

After you've been training in martial arts for 15 years your feet become pretty conditioned. A big part of the arts is adapting to your environment. If you always practice in a nice school with a comfortable uniform and ideal conditions you never learn to adapt.

[Blacktiger]

Im not making a judgement call on weather its good or bad im just saying the norm is certainly shoes on.

:D

[Lucas]

Its true it is the norm in most cma. Actually you, imo, should train mostly in shoes that you tend to wear on a regular basis, or shoes that mimic what you normally would wear. Discounting of course abnormal footwear. On the other side, its a good idea to make sure and train bare foot, various terrain etc. Just so that you will be familiar with those conditions.

eDit: most grappling excluded for shoes. :D

[Lee Chiang Po]

I have watched people training in a couple of dojo, and they were all bare footed. I didn't question the reasoning because I didn't want to seem like I didn't know what they were doing. I was a young person. I never could understand the reasoning behind it except maybe to prevent a boot heel in the mouth. I can't walk on a hard surface if it has even sand on it or it hurts like hell. If I were bare footed I would not be able to move about freely enough to fight.

[David Jamieson]

I don't let anyone wear street shoes on my floor.
For obvious reasons.

If people do wear shoes, they are clean and unsullied by the streets.

[Dale Dugas]

I have multiple pairs of training shoes. Most of them are the same shoes I wear on the street.

I have indoor training shoes that have never been worn outside these are used for indoor training.

I was karate and Japanese arts when I was younger and had calluses from hell.

I have worn shoes for years, and now rarely train barefoot unless i am strength training.

[pateticorecords]

I tend to train both with and without shoes depending on the training. We also have days when we train in work clothes, shoes, boots, etc.

[Jimbo]

My background before CMA was judo, karate, TKD/TSD, etc., all barefoot. Some on mats, some on carpets, some on hardwood floors. Also as a kid, we also often walked to the beach and back every day in summer, about 1.75 to 2 miles each way, barefoot (I used to hate flip-flops). Maybe I was lucky, but I never got any infections, etc. on my feet; only issue was the first hot day of summer, I'd sometimes get blisters on my soles from the hot blacktop, which cleared fairly quickly back then, as your feet toughen up. I wouldn't do that now, but you'd be surprised how your feet can adapt to going barefoot. How do the native tribes do it in places like Papua New Guinea, many African countries, etc.

In the past, I've tried various types of shoes in training, some just for the experience, some used regularly...tai chi slippers (no good), sneakers, deck shoes (my favorite), steel-toed workbooks, and even cowboy boots once or twice (it was the 90s). You get to feel how they all affect your balance, speed, mobility, etc., in different ways, and the advantages/disadvantages of each.

As already mentioned, even when you train with shoes, you need to be aware of hygiene. If the training is indoors, only use a dedicated pair of shoes for that and don't wear them outside.

There are some MA's that I would NOT recommend practicing shoeless, such as some of the northern-style CMA that incorporate a lot of stomping into their practices, at least not on a plain hard surface.

When I train on my own at home, I go barefoot, but if doing CMA away from home now, I'll always wear shoes.

[LivingArt]

for me it depends on the rules of the establishment.

I do prefer barefoot, though. Gripping the ground with your feet gives you a better understanding of balance and how to play with it. imo.
If im training in a park or on concrete I wear shoes, at home never.

[YouKnowWho]

A friend of mine likes to train with heavy boots on. He told me that if he could fight with heavy boots, he could fight with any shoes. When he kicks me with his heavy industry metal head boots, I have to be very careful to handle his front toe kick. The metal piece that he adds inside of his instep part of his boots makes his roundhouse kick very powerful.

[Shaolin]

In theory it may sound like a good idea to add weight to your kicks and or punches but they probably limit you more than help. It's harder to kick with proper form and detail which could create bad habits. The biggest thing I'd worry about is pulling or even tearing a tendon, ligament or stabilizer. The added weight can yank the joints if thrown anything faster/harder then 50-60%.

[YouKnowWho]

In theory it may sound like a good idea to add weight to your kicks and or punches but they probably limit you more than help. It's harder to kick with proper form and detail which could create bad habits. The biggest thing I'd worry about is pulling or even tearing a tendon, ligament or stabilizer. The added weight can yank the joints if thrown anything faster/harder then 50-60%.

Agree! Speed and "heavy" weight don't go together.

[Seppukku]

A friend of mine likes to train with heavy boots on. He told me that if he could fight with heavy boots, he could fight with any shoes. When he kicks me with his heavy industry metal head boots, I have to be very careful to handle his front toe kick. The metal piece that he adds inside of his instep part of his boots makes his roundhouse kick very powerful.

I like to keep a retractible blade in my steel-toes. It makes my eagle claw stance deadly.

[Shaolin]

I like to keep a retractible blade in my steel-toes. It makes my eagle claw stance deadly.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ph8V052fCNE/Snhf7XBJ8iI/AAAAAAAAGYo/4IMrXIzKFYA/s400/roadhousebootknife.jpg

[SteveLau]

Many years ago, I heard from a fellow student in a school class that I attended that he used to train barefoot on wooden floor. What he said is that it will help one to build strong feet (having callusous). I would say it is not a good idea. As for now, I do not have callusous on my hands, and not much on my feet either.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[jimbob]

A slight derail but I hope people are still popping into this thread.

Has anyone tried wearing minimalist running shoes for training? I love my Feiyues - truly, madly and deeply. I love the floor feel/ground feel with them, I love their flexibility - they just don't breathe all that well and when training hard (usually) my feet sweat a lot. Consequently, I'm often training in a pair of wet Feiyues - especially in winter when they don't get much chance to dry.

I'm not talking about those 5 finger shoes, but something like NB's Minimus - very low to the ground, flexible but breathable as well, or something similar.

Anyone have any experience?

[SteveLau]

Wearing thin sole shoes is good for MA training. As they give one better feel of the floor. Also, the student will move faster than wearing thick sole shoes.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[jimbob]

Thanks Steve. Bumping for more insights.

[Lucas]

A slight derail but I hope people are still popping into this thread.

Has anyone tried wearing minimalist running shoes for training? I love my Feiyues - truly, madly and deeply. I love the floor feel/ground feel with them, I love their flexibility - they just don't breathe all that well and when training hard (usually) my feet sweat a lot. Consequently, I'm often training in a pair of wet Feiyues - especially in winter when they don't get much chance to dry.

I'm not talking about those 5 finger shoes, but something like NB's Minimus - very low to the ground, flexible but breathable as well, or something similar.

Anyone have any experience?

yes i have. i like the mimimal style or indoor soccer style shoes the best. (i work next door to a running store and get a fat discount so im always checking out the shoes available) they are pretty similar in feel, though the minimal style is more like training in a very durable pair of grippy socks almost. just have to be aware there is no heel padding if you are doing anything with stomps on a hard surface, you may bruise your foot if you arent careful.

i tend to pretty much always train gongfu in the same type of footwear i wear normally. its my thought that if you do this, there is no way your footwear can hinder you if you find yourself in a self defense situation...because well youve trained in those types of shoes all along. training judo is barefoot, but we are also on mats so its not he same as training gongfu barefoot on concrete or wood. karate would be a pretty good comparison.

i live in the city and never go around town without shoes. so % wise it makes the most sense for me to train with shoes, since i always have shoes on outside my home.

[jimbob]

Thanks for the reply Lucas. I agree with everything you say. The last few years I've been making my living through Japanese taiko drumming. I have my own school and we share space in a traditional purpose built Japanese dojo with kyudoka and kendoka - hence, we are not allowed to wear street shoes in the training area. We can wear indoor shoes though.

When I'm not drumming I use the space to train alone, and I will often go barefoot as well, but I've been practising since 1978 - shoes and kung fu just go together for me. Like I said, I love my Feiyues - but they don't breathe so well, and have been thinking of something with the same flexibility and feel with better circulation. I may give one of the minimalist models a try. Thanks again.