How to recognize GOOD Wing Chun?

[Yoshiyahu]

How do you know if some one has good Wing Chun?

What should they possess for it to be good WC?

is it forms, Chi Sau, the three terrors of WC; Fok, Tan and Bong?


PLEASE SHARE IN YOUR OPINION HOW TO TELL IF SOMEONE HAS GOOD WING CHUN?

[sanjuro_ronin]

How do you know if some one has good Wing Chun?

What should they possess for it to be good WC?

is it forms, Chi Sau, the three terrors of WC; Fok, Tan and Bong?


PLEASE SHARE IN YOUR OPINION HOW TO TELL IF SOMEONE HAS GOOD WING CHUN?

When they fight, they win AND it looks like the Wing Chun THEY do in training.

[Yoshiyahu]

When they fight, they win AND it looks like the Wing Chun THEY do in training.

Very good Sanjuro_ronin question though does all training look the same in actual fighting...

does a boxer look the same sparring as he does when he shadow box?

Does a Karate guy look the same when he free spars oppose to drills,katas and point sparring?

Just asking a question that is all...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Very good Sanjuro_ronin question though does all training look the same in actual fighting...

does a boxer look the same sparring as he does when he shadow box?

Does a Karate guy look the same when he free spars oppose to drills,katas and point sparring?

Just asking a question that is all...

Do boxers look the same when they fight and train? pretty much yep.

[Ali. R]

Do boxers look the same when they fight and train? pretty much yep.

I’m sorry, but that’s simply not true on both counts.

[couch]

I’m sorry, but that’s simply not true on both counts.

Sparring doesn't look like fighting?

[Happy Tiger]

When I see my si-jeh Carol doing chi sau with a guy over 100 lbs. heavier and totally controling him, I'm in awe. She can get men right up on their toes without getting tagged.
I really know I'm seeing somthing special when one doesn't seem to use any strength or or show exessive speed to get the score. Sweet. Players who are really good don't seem to use many 'techniques' which is a brain twister when you realise half of what your doing in the first 3 to 5 years you'll likely abandon.

[Robinhood]

That would be the look of the art of fighting without fighting, then you are doing the art right.



Cheers

[shaolinhouse]

sparring doesn't look like fighting?

???

?????????

[Lee Chiang Po]

I don't think there would be any difficulty at all in being able to recognize wing chun being used in any event. One thing I have noticed in video's is that most chunners like to play chi sao. It is a myth that you do not use force. A pak, a tan, a fook, should all be done like you mean it. I will hurt one's arms using these, and have caused fractures to opponents arm bones. If you can apply a technique perfectly it should give you some advantage against a stronger opponent, but if you are also strong and apply great force, then your technique is all the more powerful.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I don't think there would be any difficulty at all in being able to recognize wing chun being used in any event. One thing I have noticed in video's is that most chunners like to play chi sao. It is a myth that you do not use force. A pak, a tan, a fook, should all be done like you mean it. I will hurt one's arms using these, and have caused fractures to opponents arm bones. If you can apply a technique perfectly it should give you some advantage against a stronger opponent, but if you are also strong and apply great force, then your technique is all the more powerful.

[Wayfaring]

Do boxers look the same when they fight and train? pretty much yep.

Well, there are a lot of boxing exercises designed to develop attributes for fighting. These exercises are quite different than fighting.

Jump Rope
Speed Bag - 3 kinds
Heavy Bag
Ropes - duck under

What does look the same as fighting?

Good Pad Work
Shadow Boxing
Sparring

[Paul T England]

Good Wing Chun slaps you right in the face LOL

Good Hong Kong/Ip Man wing chun is simple direct and efficient. It must be completely logical and everything is there for a reason. Either fighting technique, training method or body conditioning drill.

Experienced teachers will put their layer ontop. This is very important as nobody knows everything and the older you get the wiser you should be.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[sanjuro_ronin]

Well, there are a lot of boxing exercises designed to develop attributes for fighting. These exercises are quite different than fighting.

Jump Rope
Speed Bag - 3 kinds
Heavy Bag
Ropes - duck under

What does look the same as fighting?

Good Pad Work
Shadow Boxing
Sparring

Well, obviously rope skipping and speed bag work will NOT look like fighting, though the HB work SHOULD.
When a boxer spars and even shadow box you will see him move and hit just like he does in a real fight.
Certainly a real fight will not be so "fluid and smooth" because they other guy is hitting back, but everything that is done in sparring and shadow boxing will come out in a fight ( ring or outside).
A trained boxer caught in video fighting someone will make you say: That guy is a boxer.

[desertwingchun2]

One experience I had, I thought looked nothing like WC. When my buddies came over they were all laughing and saying "Dave fully Wing Chuned him!!!" So to me it looked nothing like WC but to my buddies it sure did.

Not sure what it looked like to the guy that I "Wing Chuned" but who cares. He actually got what he asked for.

-DavidE

[wingchunIan]

When they fight, they win AND it looks like the Wing Chun THEY do in training.

Don't disagree with the second part but saying someone's Wing Chun is good only if they win is a poor yardstick IMHO. You can have poor Wing Chun and win if you are lucky or the other guy is poor, or you can have great Wing Chun and lose if you get unlucky or the other guy is great. No martial art makes you invincible.

[Wayfaring]

The only way to recognize good wing chun is when it bites you in the @$$!!!

[imperialtaichi]

Well, there are a lot of boxing exercises designed to develop attributes for fighting. These exercises are quite different than fighting.

Jump Rope
Speed Bag - 3 kinds
Heavy Bag
Ropes - duck under

What does look the same as fighting?

Good Pad Work
Shadow Boxing
Sparring

Exactly!

Similarly, a big part of WC training is for the development of certain attributes used in fighting, but NOT fighting moves/postures themselves. Much like, jumping ropes develops lightness and stamina which is useful in fighting but if a boxer skips around in that posture would just be comical.

Many of the WC postures/moves used in real fights are equally comical.

[lance]

Don't disagree with the second part but saying someone's Wing Chun is good only if they win is a poor yardstick IMHO. You can have poor Wing Chun and win if you are lucky or the other guy is poor, or you can have great Wing Chun and lose if you get unlucky or the other guy is great. No martial art makes you invincible.

wingchunIan , so what you ' re really saying is it does ' nt matter if the wing chun technique is good or bad . If the atttacker throws a right straight punch towards your face and you use a block of your choice to block the punch and you strike , if the timing is off you can miss the punch and still get hit ? So it ' s like saying you and the attacker and punch eachother out ?

And if you ' re able to block the attackers' punch with the block of your choice and punch the attacker in the face , then that ' s good wing chun then , is that what you ' re saying ?

[wingchunIan]

wingchunIan , so what you ' re really saying is it does ' nt matter if the wing chun technique is good or bad . If the atttacker throws a right straight punch towards your face and you use a block of your choice to block the punch and you strike , if the timing is off you can miss the punch and still get hit ? So it ' s like saying you and the attacker and punch eachother out ?

And if you ' re able to block the attackers' punch with the block of your choice and punch the attacker in the face , then that ' s good wing chun then , is that what you ' re saying ?

think you need to read my post again mate. What i was saying is that even the most gifted Wing Chun fighter can lose a fight (as can any other martial artist) it doesn't mean that their Wing Chun is no good, it just means that circumstances at the time lead to them losing. They may have excellent Wing Chun but the other person has better x, y or z. They may be awesome on 95% of occassions but could be feeling ill or be exhausted, or may slip at the vital moment or hell even just have a bad day at the office (which happens in everything). Of course if you always lose then something is clearly wrong.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Don't disagree with the second part but saying someone's Wing Chun is good only if they win is a poor yardstick IMHO. You can have poor Wing Chun and win if you are lucky or the other guy is poor, or you can have great Wing Chun and lose if you get unlucky or the other guy is great. No martial art makes you invincible.

Well, good wing chun should at least increase the chances for survival, eh?
And most certianly anyone can win on any given day and that is WHY "one fight" does NOT a fighter make.
Consistency is the key.

[Happy Tiger]

The better the VT, the less it needs to break it's own rules in combat to get the job done.

[Vajramusti]

If one knows what to look for...

Structural yeegeekimyeungma based unity of the body which adjusts
as needed in motion.

joy chaudhuri

[GlennR]

If one knows what to look for...

Structural yeegeekimyeungma based unity of the body which adjusts
as needed in motion.

joy chaudhuri

Thats exactly what id be looking for as well

[lance]

think you need to read my post again mate. What i was saying is that even the most gifted Wing Chun fighter can lose a fight (as can any other martial artist) it doesn't mean that their Wing Chun is no good, it just means that circumstances at the time lead to them losing. They may have excellent Wing Chun but the other person has better x, y or z. They may be awesome on 95% of occassions but could be feeling ill or be exhausted, or may slip at the vital moment or hell even just have a bad day at the office (which happens in everything). Of course if you always lose then something is clearly wrong.

wingchunIan , I read your posts twice , and to me the only way a gifted wing chun fighter would lose is because his opponent was better than him , gifted means you suppose to be good already . Because , in this world always get someone that ' s better than you . You would know your opponent , the minute you come into contact with the person . If you feel that your opponent is better than you , but you give the challenge your best shot , it ' ll give the opponent a challenge and from there it all depends on what happens . If your WC is good , then you should be able to win over your opponent . If your WC is bad then your opponent will have a advantage over you .

There is no circumstances in a fight or challenge it ' s either you lose or win . So that ' s why regardless of how gifted you are in WC it would ' nt hurt to challenge the sifu when possible . Another important thing is experience . I ' ve seen a WC expert lose against a free style kickboxer , it turns out that the kickboxer had more experience in fighting than the WC expert . It was embarrasing for the Wc expert , but that ' s realityh right there . this fight that I ' m talking about was on youtube .

[EternalSpring]

When they fight, they win AND it looks like the Wing Chun THEY do in training.

I'd go with this. There's really no other way to even attempt to judge someone's ving tsun. For me to simply say "oh their forms dont have the same energies as mine and thus are not good" would be narrow minded. The only way to know is to feel their energy/ability/etc.

[Jeff_H]

Good WC is consistent inside and out (no contradictions on any level).

Good WC (applied) depends on the person, and whether or not the person can leverage the art without compromising it.

[hulkout]

I think one of the most important things to look for is having the forward energy and intent when under pressure. A lot of guys when they fight fall apart under pressure and they retreat back or get scared. You've got to maintain your forward energy and you must have intent. Without these things, your Wing Chun will never work well.

[Ali. R]

The Sifu doesn’t talk about what he can do, or how good he is or even name drop; but only produce while proving his skill level, that’s the real deal.

If he/she can back it up then they wouldn’t have to do what I've just mention.

[Savi]

Good Wing Chun? Some of my thoughts...

Proper observance of personal gravity; no leaning, balanced stance work, upright posture, solid grounding

Proper energetics; use structural energy vs muscle and tension to overcome force, stick when you have to, explosive striking, no over/under commitment

Proper use of space; no chasing hands, tight close quarter mechanics, ability to engage all angles, controls and/or penetrates zones of attack and defense (space/volume), always observe correct facing concepts to measure dis/advantageous positioning

Proper use of bridging; maintains structural integrity without collapsing or overreaching, clearly identifiable contact points: wrist, palm, knife edge, back of hand, forearm - all with functional structure, leverage, and pressure to distort the opponent's center of gravity from any/all angles, disciplined control of range

Proper footwork; strong definitive steps supportive and conducive to whole body structure, application, and occupation of space, move when you have to and stay when you don't have/need to move

To me, good Wing Chun is unique in the MA world, yet through the above points and above all else is expressed in attitude and spirit. Good posts all around. Agree on some points and disagree on other points.

[duende]

Bias aside, that was an excellent answer Savi!

[Vajramusti]

Bias aside, that was an excellent answer Savi!
-------------------------------------------------------
agree

[Ali. R]

You are absolutely right, great answer; for those who already know what to look for.

Good stuff,

[Phil Redmond]

Don't disagree with the second part but saying someone's Wing Chun is good only if they win is a poor yardstick IMHO. You can have poor Wing Chun and win if you are lucky or the other guy is poor, or you can have great Wing Chun and lose if you get unlucky or the other guy is great. No martial art makes you invincible.

Yep, well said.

[Wayfaring]

Good Wing Chun? Some of my thoughts...

Proper observance of personal gravity; no leaning, balanced stance work, upright posture, solid grounding

Proper energetics; use structural energy vs muscle and tension to overcome force, stick when you have to, explosive striking, no over/under commitment

Proper use of space; no chasing hands, tight close quarter mechanics, ability to engage all angles, controls and/or penetrates zones of attack and defense (space/volume), always observe correct facing concepts to measure dis/advantageous positioning

Proper use of bridging; maintains structural integrity without collapsing or overreaching, clearly identifiable contact points: wrist, palm, knife edge, back of hand, forearm - all with functional structure, leverage, and pressure to distort the opponent's center of gravity from any/all angles, disciplined control of range

Proper footwork; strong definitive steps supportive and conducive to whole body structure, application, and occupation of space, move when you have to and stay when you don't have/need to move

To me, good Wing Chun is unique in the MA world, yet through the above points and above all else is expressed in attitude and spirit. Good posts all around. Agree on some points and disagree on other points.

Nice. Great points.