The yik kam transform

[Hendrik]

A brief introduction of the five layers in the Yik kam transform.

1. Physical body layer.

This layer describe the physical body the keys of handling physical body.

The body structures both in static and dynamic state , six bows, the alignment of feel, spine , and head, and the definition of loose are defined and experienced.

2. The mind layer

This layer describe the mind and the keys of handling the mind.

The mind layers tools : thinking, intention, aware, visualization , and present are defined introduced and experienced.

The mind layers tools are tools used for fine handling physical structure, force vectors, Qi cultivation , mental stability, and ect. This is beyond the coarse handling of physical body.

3. The breathing layer

This layer describe the breathing layer and the keys of handling the breathing.

The natural lower breathing which increase the breathing volume are define and experienced.

4. The Qi layer

This layer describe the Qi layer and the keys of handling the Qi.

The grow of Qi and the effect of Qi in physical body are defined and experienced.

This layer is dependent on the well handling of the physical , mind, and breathing layers.

5. The force vector, momentum types, and basic core martial application tactic characteristic layer.

This layer describes power generation, force balancing, momentum , and basic core martial application tactic characteristic for Wing Chun Kuen and the keys for handling them. Each details are defined and experienced.

For example :

the different between body type of power generation and force line type of power generation which always involve returning part of the force vector circuit. The consideration of recycle of momentum. The different between Pulse power and thrust power.

Layer 5 is the layer which makes the art a martial art while all other layer are a support to the 5th layer.

These five layers catagorization is an attemp to describe what existed in 1850 era Wing Chun Kuen in a modern day language, to aid a better understanding of the ancient art which was presented in a classical Chinese culture view. And to bring out the details involved in that era.




The Yik kam transform process consist of the well define subject as above accompay with various static and dynamic drill to bring one into direct experience and understanding of every layer in a tangible way.

It is called the Yik Kam transform because it is a tool for expand and evolve the boundary of one's Wing Chun kuen disregards of lineage with the 1850 era Wing Chun Kuen contents. So that the missing coud be found , the partial can be make whole, and promote a healthy and balance evolution towards the future. Via the transform to activate the Wing Chun Kuen three sets engine and identify where are the internal art located within the sets are no longer a dream but real.

Wing Chun 1850 is a science and technology, not a myth , cult, or legend.
And we do have the 1850 technology available.

A new era begin 2012 , unavoidable, it is all about education on what has been existed.

[Hendrik]

Expect a good fun summer.

Big thing has small begining...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WUpsErUBA

[Hendrik]

Whatever can be implemented with the five layers is not a dream.

[nasmedicine]

A brief introduction of the five layers in the Yik kam transform.

1. Physical body layer.

This layer describe the physical body the keys of handling physical body.

The body structures both in static and dynamic state , six bows, the alignment of feel, spine , and head, and the definition of loose are defined and experienced.

2. The mind layer

This layer describe the mind and the keys of handling the mind.

The mind layers tools : thinking, intention, aware, visualization , and present are defined introduced and experienced.

The mind layers tools are tools used for fine handling physical structure, force vectors, Qi cultivation , mental stability, and ect. This is beyond the coarse handling of physical body.

3. The breathing layer

This layer describe the breathing layer and the keys of handling the breathing.

The natural lower breathing which increase the breathing volume are define and experienced.

4. The Qi layer

This layer describe the Qi layer and the keys of handling the Qi.

The grow of Qi and the effect of Qi in physical body are defined and experienced.

This layer is dependent on the well handling of the physical , mind, and breathing layers.

5. The force vector, momentum types, and basic core martial application tactic characteristic layer.

This layer describes power generation, force balancing, momentum , and basic core martial application tactic characteristic for Wing Chun Kuen and the keys for handling them. Each details are defined and experienced.

For example :

the different between body type of power generation and force line type of power generation which always involve returning part of the force vector circuit. The consideration of recycle of momentum. The different between Pulse power and thrust power.

Layer 5 is the layer which makes the art a martial art while all other layer are a support to the 5th layer.

These five layers catagorization is an attemp to describe what existed in 1850 era Wing Chun Kuen in a modern day language, to aid a better understanding of the ancient art which was presented in a classical Chinese culture view. And to bring out the details involved in that era.




The Yik kam transform process consist of the well define subject as above accompay with various static and dynamic drill to bring one into direct experience and understanding of every layer in a tangible way.

It is called the Yik Kam transform because it is a tool for expand and evolve the boundary of one's Wing Chun kuen disregards of lineage with the 1850 era Wing Chun Kuen contents. So that the missing coud be found , the partial can be make whole, and promote a healthy and balance evolution towards the future. Via the transform to activate the Wing Chun Kuen three sets engine and identify where are the internal art located within the sets are no longer a dream but real.

Wing Chun 1850 is a science and technology, not a myth , cult, or legend.
And we do have the 1850 technology available.

A new era begin 2012 , unavoidable, it is all about education on what has been existed.

Excellent Post! This covers the gist of what Mike explained to me about the YK transform. I still have yet to meet up with him however to get a full idea via demonstration of the exercises/details. Hopefully soon, will let you know when I do. Thank for sharing Hendrik.

- Nirav

[Hendrik]

Excellent Post! This covers the gist of what Mike explained to me about the YK transform. I still have yet to meet up with him however to get a full idea via demonstration of the exercises/details. Hopefully soon, will let you know when I do. Thank for sharing Hendrik.

- Nirav

You are welcome.

There is no secret. And these are just the begining basic elements that let one to be Able to see the whole picture, and doing analyze and synthesize.


Try it you might like it.

[Hendrik]

According to Yik kam Prior to the art was named wing Chun kuen.

It was given the name siu Lin tau. Meaning the essential training of details.
The devil is in the small details is the strength of wing Chun kuen. Handling of small details is the basis of the short Jin.

[Hendrik]

For those who are interested on health improving , this yik kam transform will give you a solid based which is accord to the proper tcm and qigong principle.

You can contact sifu Jim Rosalendo at MIT qigong club if you are in boston area to learn them from him. Jim has been very kind to teach the public . Hope that more people can learn these and can Benifit others.

Wing Chun kuen can be for health that is certain.

http://web.mit.edu/qigong/Testimonials.html

[stonecrusher69]

I can say for myself during my short time with Hendrik I lost 5 pounds when i was there and the training was not very intense. So for your health alone its great..I never felt better and my energy levels are very high. I used to have to drink coffee in the morning to wake up and get moving,but now I dont need it and i dont need as much sleep as before..

[Hendrik]

Mike,

Excellent!

Master it and teach to the less fortune people.
Let them has a chance to live a better live!

Be it in the high education area as MIT or the less fortunate kids on the street, we help them equally so that everyone has good health good brain and can reach for a good living dream instead of fight fight and no hope. That is the mission of ancient Chinese martial artists beside protecting thier village as security personal.

[stonecrusher69]

I will Hendrik...I already passed on the 1st layer to one of my students a few days ago,and anyone else who would like to learn it..

[Hendrik]

I will Hendrik...I already passed on the 1st layer to one of my students a few days ago,and anyone else who would like to learn it..

Mike,

Great!


As we share sigung Ven. Hsu yin.

I have two more sigungs, they are Sek Ko Sam the shaolin martial monk in Indonesia , and dr. Ma li tang one of the top martial artists, tcm doctor, and qigong master. All these people share a mission and that is provide hope to the less fortunate.

[Hendrik]

I don't own the yik kam transform. It is a treasure of the red boat WCK ancestors. So it has to be available free for all wcners.

I will share every thing I know beside layer five because I am Buddhist now, It is no longer my interest to talk about how destructive is the weapons to destroy.

Rather, to use all the other four layers of information to build a positive , strong, healthy, and solid wcner.

[Hendrik]

In the Yik kam transform process. The yoga ball is an instrument to test out momentum, force vectors objectively. One can actually see the different type of power generations pattern and momentum handling. One can test out if shift with heels shift with ball of the feet....forward pressure..ect works or not.

Only when one can see it feel it, one can develop them. It is engineering not lip service.


http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=yoga+ball&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=68433189205884794&sa=X&ei=VnDLT7ujOuqY2wXj-vzZCw&ved=0CJABEPICMAA

[Happy Tiger]

Thank you for sharing

[Hendrik]

Months ago I release the yik kam slt kuen kuit. In order to understand the kuen kuit one needs the five layers knowledge otherwise one cannot comprehend.

So the five layers is the fundamental of the 1850 wing Chun.

[nasmedicine]

You are welcome.

There is no secret. And these are just the begining basic elements that let one to be Able to see the whole picture, and doing analyze and synthesize.


Try it you might like it.

Trust me I already like it just from the sound of it and the results that Mike has been achieving in such a short period of time.



Master it and teach to the less fortune people.
Let them has a chance to live a better live!

Be it in the high education area as MIT or the less fortunate kids on the street, we help them equally so that everyone has good health good brain and can reach for a good living dream instead of fight fight and no hope. That is the mission of ancient Chinese martial artists beside protecting thier village as security personal.

Well said.

[Hendrik]

Yik kam transform is an operating manual of our own body mind. Once we know the functions of our mind and body, the more we use them the more we will be good at it.
And the limit is only depend on how much one uses it.

Yik kam transform is a transform because it leads one to aware. Once one aware of what one has not aware one will no longer the same.

It is the aware and experience of the body mind which is categorize in the five layers kick starts ones evolution in ones body and mind. And at that point the evolution started and cannot be reversed.

Thus, an exposé to the transform of 24 hours push one into another body mind state and the world after that will no longer be the same. As it says, toto this is not Kansas anymore.

In the ancient china. This transform is named as sum fatt or mind method. It is only given to the inner chamber students in the blood line. That is because without the mind method. Ones practice will hit platoe and flat out and degrade while aging. With mind method there is alternative.

Thus, the yik kam transform is the yik kam slt sum fatt coin in the modern language. It has to work because it is a scientific educational process. And it is a holistic balance process.

Yes. These sum fatt things exist in 1850 wing Chun. Try it and you will know it is real.

[Hendrik]

For those who is in MIT and other Engineering colleges.

The yik kam transform process is called transform because


1. It is a process to promote transformation to break the boundary of the initial state.

2. The five layers is analog to the layers in the neuron network of artificial intelligent design , where the intelligent is in every layer and the integration of all layers.

3. It is similar to Laplace transform , with one deal with the reality in the Laplace domain to have the advantage of easier to grasp the subject and process and simplified the operation to algebraic instead of diff Eqs. With yik kam transform one dealing with the reality with zoom in to each layer and zoom out to all layers as needed.


Thus, yik kam transform is a tool. However, whether it is a Jedi training process or Dath Vaders clone Ning , that heavy rely on humanistic maturity. Thus, I suggest to limit the Depth of the fifth layer. Never give a neucler bomb to a kid even though we know every details how to Do mass production.


It is a 1850 concept with 2010 design. I am not a martial artist but a system architect .

[Hendrik]

I told the people who learn the Yik Kam transform that

if one replace the force vector, momentum, and figthing tactic layer to diet and nutrition layer. one will have a Transform for healthy holistic living.


I believe it is time to raise this issue because martial artists needs to be strong and healthy to protect others. instead of going through all type of macho stuffs and by the age of 45, the body run like an old car.

So, with the fifth layer replace into a diet and nutrition layer one has a very good chance to live a healthy live. in fact, I hope someone teach these stuff in high school.


My teacher in organic food use to tell me to never donate can food. He told me that, the less fortunate is already less fortunate. if we give them bad food. they will not have a chance. especially the young kid and teenages on the street. if they have bad food their body will not work properly and thus get into bad mood and will not think properly. That way how can they study and make a better living later? it is a dead trap spiral downward. So, diet is a serious issue.


Sure, the well todo can eat organic food. however, even the less fortunate has an alternative.

For example,

with Zero cost to pay
cut out soft drink, do not drink icy water. do not drink icy water with your meal. only drink water or warm water, cut down salt, cut down sugar. cut down or avoid white rice, cup noddle. cut out or down junk food to 20%, and eat with 4 hours between meal . eat fruit instead of junk food. do not eat after 9pm. Always eat break feast.

with some extra cost to pay,
avoid or minimize fast food or can food every week , eat old style oat meal, eat vegitables and minimum process food. cut down wine and whatever not neccesary and replace it with whole food.
Avoid fried rice or fried noodle.


With the above one can improve one's health and mood and mind with very little cost. So, one doesnt have to be well todo , one has alternative even one is less fortunate. with determination one will achieve a good result and better future instead falling into a dead trap of no future. the long term gain is very big.

So, one needs determination and perserverance, but martial art is all about determination and perserverance anyway.

I hope we WCners out there to explain this to our friends or students especially those who are in the less fortunate group to help them to have a good martial art and good life.

The bottom line and the agenda of the Yik Kam transform is aim at that. a good martial artists with a good life.



only last night a WCner old friend ask me why do I coin the term "Wing Chun 1850" I told him, 1850 era , opium war, Chinese government hit bankcruptcy, Chinese society is mealting down, chinese culture is in depression, the people is in hot water, the Wing Chun ancestors ( the Red boat opera actors) started the first military uprising of the chinese opera actor( in the entile Chinese history of thousands of years) . no one knows how to, and how long to get out of that. evidentally we know today it takes six generations or 160 years an a big numbers of war and battles to get to today's china condition. 160 years is a long time , too long for those living in 1850 to wait.

Those who live in 1850 has to live. they have to live and do the best the can with all what they have. no one knows when next Spring is going to come, no one can imagine how long is 160 years. if they can do it and survive then, there is no reason we can not do much much better in 2010. WCners need to be do a much better job then those who is in 1850. a better living a better art. instead of get stuck in the past with limited art and living within the opium fantasy.

For me, WCK is all about hope and chance. and the Transform is a tool for providing hope and chance. it is not about I fight better then you. or I can beat you. it is I have nuclear technology and have a good life too. when the world is evolving into deep high tech. we now face how to live a balance live or we get into chaos. it is time to look at everything holistically .

[Matthew]

I told the people who learn the Yik Kam transform that

if one replace the force vector, momentum, and figthing tactic layer to diet and nutrition layer. one will have a Transform for healthy holistic living.


I believe it is time to raise this issue because martial artists needs to be strong and healthy to protect others. instead of going through all type of macho stuffs and by the age of 45, the body run like an old car.

...................

For me, WCK is all about hope and chance. and the Transform is a tool for providing hope and chance. it is not about I fight better then you. or I can beat you. it is I have nuclear technology and have a good life too. when the world is evolving into deep high tech. we now face how to live a balance live or we get into chaos. it is time to look at everything holistically .

Thank you for sharing all of this! I've never taken any WCK lessons and only met a couple WCK players- but I think it applies as a nice systematic way to consider all arts - and as a foundation from which to bring deeper analysis when learning. Whenever I see your posts I think they often apply in general terms beyond WCK too similar to this one- so maybe in the future you can post this in the Kung Fu Training and Health sub forum too

Out of curiosity- I may have figured breathing to be with body layer (either integrated or even before it in some ways). I also might have thought mind being the first level of fundamental practice in quieting, focusing, and as a precursor to breathing practice.

From some teacher I did once have I noticed how quickly mind is often skipped and body 'layer' was gone directly to- perhaps it is an analysis tool though and not a concrete law of arts too.

What do you think?

Matt

[Hendrik]

Here is another example of how the yik kam transform applied in other style

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1172815&postcount=17

[Hendrik]

Thank you for sharing all of this! I've never taken any WCK lessons and only met a couple WCK players- but I think it applies as a nice systematic way to consider all arts - and as a foundation from which to bring deeper analysis when learning. Whenever I see your posts I think they often apply in general terms beyond WCK too similar to this one- so maybe in the future you can post this in the Kung Fu Training and Health sub forum too

Out of curiosity- I may have figured breathing to be with body layer (either integrated or even before it in some ways). I also might have thought mind being the first level of fundamental practice in quieting, focusing, and as a precursor to breathing practice.

From some teacher I did once have I noticed how quickly mind is often skipped and body 'layer' was gone directly to- perhaps it is an analysis tool though and not a concrete law of arts too.

What do you think?

Matt


Matt,

We all know, body and mind are inseperate able. And inter related, The break down of the five layers is for quick precise handling for the beginner. those who has master, just run natural .

Without these layer stuffs clearly present to the beginner and let them be able to handle them. The qi layer and the momentum , force, tactic layer will be having a difficult time to get handle.


Not to mention, within each layer there are indepth stuffs which the ordinary people doesn't aware of. In that case, they will never be able to use that part of the functions.

But then for the master, everything is just natural .


Also, the sequence and how to get hold of the layer makes a heaven and earth different unless one is a master.

For example, the physical body layer needs to be handle before the mind layer. The breathing layer must be handle via physical body layer and mind layer. Otherwise one cannot have a stable and repeatable consistence handling and further entering into the zone.

These stuffs are a part of human nature, if one cannot get it right in the begining. One will never have a stable practice, and will never arrive at the advance level.


When using for healing, these sequence of handling are very important to get result. We cannot have unstable and unrepeatable result.

In combat situation, these are critical because we cannot afford mind body latch up via tunnel vision. Due to missed handling of the layer, sequence of the layer, and depth of the layer. Each button has to be handle properly. Similar to flying a plane.

So, the layer separation above and how yik kam transform drill with its sequence bring one to experience the five layers are very critical.


People never be able to get to the qi layer if the first three layers cannot be repeatable handle. Thus, not many can called for or evoke qi in their Dan Tien. They cannot do it because the first three layers are not master . If that is master, the qi layer will surface. And can be measure. It is a nature phenomenon of the human body. Not philosophy or believe.


But then as I aways says if you are a master or natural. You don't need these. There are more then one way but it must based on repeatable and precise handling nature. Never philosophy because the nature is not going to listen to any ones philosophy but goes its own way and sequence very specifically.


Also, the layer activation sequence is for protection guarding. For example, when the mind cannot quite down and out of control. One knows one needs to shut down a certain part of mind function or totally abandon it to back off to work on the physical layer. Otherwise, it is self destruction.
So, as a beginner one absolutely needs to know the layers and sequence and the layers depth . To make it work. In the healing or combat situation. We today has very little pragmatic teaching but lots of philosophies.

IMHO, yes, there are laws needs to follow when dealing with the five layers. One can cleverly manupulate but must never against the law. To crack the code , the length of the bit and the sequence needs to be exact. For the past 150 years the wck engine is so difficult because the length of the bit or how many bit of data and the sequence of the bit is not that well know. And now we want to put that under spot light and crack the code once for all.

[Minghequan]

Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
Master it and teach to the less fortune people.
Let them has a chance to live a better live!

Be it in the high education area as MIT or the less fortunate kids on the street, we help them equally so that everyone has good health good brain and can reach for a good living dream instead of fight fight and no hope. That is the mission of ancient Chinese martial artists beside protecting thier village as security personal.

Thank you Hendrik! You have summed up the arts wonderfully!

[Ali. R]

the less fortunate kids on the street, we help them equally so that everyone has good health good brain and can reach for a good living dream instead of fight fight and no hope. That is the mission of ancient Chinese martial artists

Who and what is developing the less fortunate kids brain; and because they don’t do what you're working on; why are they less fortunate? They should have parents that love them unless you’re teaching orphans.

What was said here; is what every teacher should do and tell (kids), and not just in martial arts. That should already be in our everyday lives within the frame of mind in which should have came from our parents, I’m not going to pay anyone to teach me how to act/think, especially a martial art instructor while being an adult. I’m just not that weak minded (brain wash).

[Hendrik]

Who and what is developing the less fortunate kids brain; and because they don’t do what you're working on; why are they less fortunate? They should have parents that love them unless you’re teaching orphans.

What was said here; is what every teacher should do and tell (kids), and not just in martial arts.

That should already be in our everyday lives within the frame of mind in which should have came from our parents, I’m not going to pay anyone to teach me how to act, especially a martial art instructor while being an adult.

I’m just not that weak minded (brain wash).


I suggest you carefully read my previous posts and comprehend what is communicated instead of thinking what you are thinking as what I am saying.



As for the less fortunate brain, one can give ones kid all the love but if the kid keep eating can food, soft drink, high salt, high sugar, ... All day long .. (Got nothing to do with what i am working on. )

Guess what will the outcome be when these kids in school , And when they hit an age of 45? Can those type of eating support a healthy living , a clear and sharp mind? Not to mention a demanding martial art training?



As for parents, take a look how many of today's parents ,as we are , knows what is proper , and practice as a good model on how to live a balance live?


So, What i say is there are laws and techonogy of natural living.
every person will get Benifit by knowing what those are and walk their talk to get result.



And finally,

Those who fully develop their mind layer, will have no fear to look into anything and decide what is the best , always expand their horizon , and stay in the state of positive silence without trap in ones own mind set.

But that development will work only with good diet, and other layers' proper support because every layers is inter related.


As for weak mind and brain wash, we all are subject to that. We learn our stuffs mostly via tv and movies and internet, and commercial advertisement , without realize them. We don't even do prayer every night to reset our brain anymore. We all are weak and brainwashed.


Any one believe those chain punch in ip man 2 the movie can defense against a well train boxer? If yes, that is one of the worst brainwash. And the parents and instructors who do not know that put the kids in high danger. IMHO.

[Hendrik]

Ali has bring up a great point on love.

For me,

Even though I did zen, qi......ect.


Mind needs a physical support for 99% of the human.

Thus, if one cannot take care of the basic physical layer Forget the other stuffs.
And to taking care of the physical one needs a balance diet.

Thus, control the food one actually control the body. Control the body one control the mind.

So, is advance state of mind and qi exist ? Yes. But 99% percent of people cannot get there.

For the 1% who get there, mind and body is non dual. It is living in a different world? Do we have technology to get there? Yes. But most will never go that far.

[Ali. R]

Hello Hendrik,

I understand what you’re saying, but the entire thing you’re presenting as point/premises on why it’s better -or- which leaves others in the position of being less fortunate; my POV is ONLY a byproduct of good parenting.

If one doesn’t understand or develop what you do or work on doesn’t put them in any less position to live a happy and healthy life. Believe me, getting your but kick every time can be a very unhappy and unhealthy situation to be in, and this is where the mother's love comes in to play: to be better, to act better and to live a better life… ;)

[Hendrik]

Hello Hendrik,

I understand what you’re saying, but the entire thing you’re presenting as point/premises on why it’s better -or- which leaves others in the position of being less fortunate; my POV is ONLY a byproduct of good parenting.

If one doesn’t understand or develop what you do or work on doesn’t put them in any less position to live a happy and healthy life.

Believe me, getting your but kick every time can be a very unhappy and unhealthy situation to be in, and this is where the mothers love comes in to play: to be better, to act better and to live a better life… ;)

Ali,

You missed my definition of less fortune. Thus, you missed my point.

Please Read ' my organic food instructor told me why not to donate can food ' section to have a clear definition of what less fortune means.


Also, the thread here got nothing to do on what I work or what I do. This thread is a systematic presenting of what technology exist in today's language. I am just a messenger reporting what exists.


as I mention above, this thread is not going into get your but kick types of subject.
So, it will be appreciate to limit the discussion To facts, technology only.

[Ali. R]

I didn’t miss anything and you’re not the only one here with a brain.

Well, your message shouldn’t put others in the position of being beneath and less fortunate then you; and that’s all because you were told so, considering that you’re the messenger (brain washed).:rolleyes:

[Hendrik]

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1172960&postcount=36

[Ali. R]

Ok,

I just see you promoting “Chi Kung” for what it always has been (in realty) dieting, breathing, meditating and just some of the basic levels.


In1600 chinese martial art technology has already on its peak. thus, when White Crane was designed, it was using the top technology of its time. the momentum, force vectors flow, combat tactic, and Qi flow are fused into a single piece with the mind body evolution training..............

The entire thing that you just talked about; or always talk about falls in the category of “Energetic Formation”: spiritual interactions, matter, energies. All wrapped up in a pita bread formation of "Energetic/Embryological" and served to anyone that would eat it......

Same engine but different body.

[nasmedicine]

Ok,

I just see you promoting “Chi Kung” for what it always has been (in realty) dieting, breathing, meditating and just some of the basic levels.
.

I surely do not speak for Hendrik however from what I understand thus far Hendrik is simply trying to discuss a particular systematic method (in my opinion one of the best I've come across) on how cultivate these basic levels you speak of.

[Ali. R]

I surely do not speak for Hendrik however from what I understand thus far Hendrik is simply trying to discuss a particular systematic method (in my opinion one of the best I've come across) on how cultivate these basic levels you speak of.

I understand,

I’m not knocking him at all, but his propaganda/metaphors only shows what he may feel that is very unique or original, only has been around sense almost the creation of “Chi Kung” in a health sense.

And from the way he speaks, he speaks of these foundations; “Energetic Formation”: spiritual interactions, matter, energies, etc…, but only with his own twist (his wing chun). Nothing wrong with that though.

It sounds like his speaking of “Universal Energies” and “Environmental Energies” Heaven and Earth mostly all psychophysical.

[nasmedicine]

I understand,

I’m not knocking him at all, but his propaganda/metaphors only shows what he may feel that is very unique or original, only has been around sense almost the creation of “Chi Kung” in a health sense.

I think you a confusing propaganda with passion. Passion that many here on this forum for what they believe to be true, tried and tested. Hendrik just wants to share what he's has learned from his lineage and research. If one wants to listen then it's totally up to the individual. If not then it's no skin of any ones back. Right?



And from the way he speaks, he speaks of these foundations; “Energetic Formation”: spiritual interactions, matter, energies, etc…, but only with his own twist (his wing chun). Nothing wrong with that though.

Exactly, nothing wrong with that, but to be honest to fully understand what Hendrik is talking about you either have to go visit him or train with someone that has has the opportunity to learn the Transform from him. This is especially true if you practice WC with no internal aspect at all. If you do practice the internal portion of WC or come from another art with and internal background then Hendrik writing become a bit more digestible. It would seem that you have some background with internal arts or at least have a general knowledge so I'm sure you understand what I mean. As the saying goes at the pinnacle all internal arts are the same.

[Ali. R]

Why are you speaking for him, I’m not being insulting, why so defensive? It’s evident that you don't have a clue; not being mean. Hendrik knows what I say is true for a fact, so if he wants to speak then let him, other than that let’s not make a fight out this.:confused:

[Hendrik]

Ok,

I just see you promoting “Chi Kung” for what it always has been (in realty) dieting, breathing, meditating and just some of the basic levels.



The entire thing that you just talked about; or always talk about falls in the category of “Energetic Formation”: spiritual interactions, matter, energies. All wrapped up in a pita bread formation of "Energetic/Embryological" and served to anyone that would eat it......

Same engine but different body.

I am just present the existed internal tcma technology specifically in today's language.

It is not those new age qigong, spiritual, matter, energy....ect as some might think but totally missed the message.

[Hendrik]

Why are you speaking for him, I’m not being insulting, why so defensive? It’s evident that you don't have a clue; not being mean. Hendrik knows what I say is true for a fact, so if he wants to speak then let him, other than that let’s not make a fight out this.:confused:

Ali,

Joseph knows what I am talking about so he can has his opinion.

On the other hand, what you think I am presenting is not what I am presenting.

I am ok with every one has their own opinion. However, I would like the communication here to be restricted in term of technology only.

[Hendrik]

I think you a confusing propaganda with passion. Passion that many here on this forum for what they believe to be true, tried and tested. Hendrik just wants to share what he's has learned from his lineage and research. If one wants to listen then it's totally up to the individual. If not then it's no skin of any ones back. Right?



Exactly, nothing wrong with that, but to be honest to fully understand what Hendrik is talking about you either have to go visit him or train with someone that has has the opportunity to learn the Transform from him. This is especially true if you practice WC with no internal aspect at all. If you do practice the internal portion of WC or come from another art with and internal background then Hendrik writing become a bit more digestible. It would seem that you have some background with internal arts or at least have a general knowledge so I'm sure you understand what I mean. As the saying goes at the pinnacle all internal arts are the same.


I agree Joshep.

I passed out the message on what happen in WCK and even white crane a mother of WCK. Why the five layers categorization is needed for us who live in present day to be able to grasp what is going on century ago.

It is up for one to see if there is value for them to take it or leave it. It is a free world.

Also, I am very particular on internal details i am talking about, technology and education are the bottom line.

[Ali. R]

You speak of these foundations almost every other time you open your mouth: spiritual interactions, matter, energies, etc…, “Psychophysical” Chi Kung

And this is what you do, Universal Energies and Environmental Energies “Heaven and Earth”. I’m not missing anything because it develops those foundations :rolleyes:

[nasmedicine]

Why are you speaking for him, I’m not being insulting, why so defensive? It’s evident that you don't have a clue; not being mean. Hendrik knows what I say is true for a fact, so if he wants to speak then let him, other than that let’s not make a fight out this.:confused:

I think I made it clear in another post that I do not speak for Hendrik. Also, It's your interpretation of my written text is that I'm being defensive when in actuality it is nothing of the sort. You say that you don't want to make a fight out of this yet say I don't have a clue? What I have said before is my interpretation of the YK Transform and what it is trying to accomplish especially in light of the fact that you where having such a hard time wrapping your thought around what Hendrik had so clearly stated in numerous posts. If you want more clues then you might want to reread those earlier posts or perhaps if your really want to do some research you might want to sift through the 100's past post by Hendrik's that again repeat the same information. I think your confusion lies in the fact that the YK transform is mainly something that needs to be demonstrated in person by someone has been taught the "transform". But you can get a lot of clues by paying close attention to detail from some of Hendrik's lengthy explanations. Please do not interpret my words as anything more then what they are, words. You can either read them and absorb or dismiss. Totally up to.

Cheers,

Nirav

[Hendrik]

You speak of these elements almost every other time you open your mouth: spiritual interactions, matter, energies, etc…, “Psychophysical” Chi Kung

And this is what you do, Universal Energies and Environmental Energies “Heaven and Earth”. I’m not missing anything. :rolleyes:

Obviously you did not empty your cup and never tasted my tea.

[nasmedicine]

I agree Joshep.

It is up for one to see if there is value for them to take it or leave it. It is a free world.

Also, I am very particular on internal details i am talking about, technology and education are the bottom line.

Exactly, I think some people might be feel threatened by your presentation of the five layers because for them it's such a foreign concept from what they are normally used to especially when training WC. IMHO, the five layers is not reinventing the wheels but rater provides and excellent schematic for understanding the full functionality/utilization of the wheel. It's a nice package for something that would otherwise become disorganized and lost if not presented this systematic fashion. In any case I have said what I need to say for now. You have clearly written everything that can possibly written about the YK transform for those who are truly seeking.

- Nirav

[Ali. R]

Obviously you did not empty your cup and never tasted my tea.

Nope, I'll rather keep my head on tight; I understand, "politics".

Take care Hendrik,

[Hendrik]

Nope, I'll rather keep my head on tight; I understand, "politics".

Take care Hendrik,

I respect everyone's opinion.

[Ali. R]

Exactly, I think some people might be feel threatened by you presentation of the five layers because for them it's such a foreign concept from what they are normally used to especially when training WC.

- Nirav

I've tried the foreign concept thing myself dealing with this: http://detroitwingchun.com/steinerdigrams.htm Man I caught hell, I’m agreeing with him (because I know). I don’t remember you standing up preaching back then about being nice to foreign concept week for me -or- anyone else for that matter; sounds like you had a cup of that “tea” Hendrik was talking about.

[Hendrik]

Exactly, I think some people might be feel threatened by your presentation of the five layers because for them it's such a foreign concept from what they are normally used to especially when training WC. IMHO, the five layers is not reinventing the wheels but rater provides and excellent schematic for understanding the full functionality/utilization of the wheel. It's a nice package for something that would otherwise become disorganized and lost if not presented this systematic fashion. In any case I have said what I need to say for now. You have clearly written everything that can possibly written about the YK transform for those who are truly seeking.

- Nirav



I am in my 50s now. we dont live forever, I have spend 30+ years in trying to figure out what the heck is going on. so, it is my believe that if I dont want these things to be lost, I need to release it without reservation. at some point of our life we need to do something to contribute to the public.

not to mention, all what I am present doesnt belongs to me but the red boat WCK ancestors. It will be very selfish if I dont present it openly.

my personal view is that, WCK needs to adapt to the five layers or equavalent systematic teaching. otherwise WCK does not have a bright future but get limited in the very tribal type of thinking and teaching. As we know, none of those tribal type of thinking and teaching will survive evolution and new technology.

Like everything in the history, people always get short because of bringing up new ideas and concept. so, that is expected by me. also, i dont blame people for those because we ourselve will also did those stuffs, if we are in a different position. it is not the people it is the situation and position.


No one needs to like the Yik Kam transform and I do not expect every one to like it. However, I do want to say that, if you dont like it, create your own. but make very sure you have all based covered. because the technology in martial art is going to get more and more high tech. a style can get obsolete over night. and I dont want to see any WCK lineage fade away.


also, I dont use those fuzzy term Qigong....etc. but very specific details term. that is because everything said needs to be able to implemented and pragmatic.

[Ali. R]

equavalent systematic teaching. otherwise WCK does not have a bright future but get limited in the very tribal type of thinking and teaching. As we know, none of those tribal type of thinking and teaching will survive evolution and new technology..

See there you go again, with your personal POV “of those poor people” who don’t do/know what you do (sad); so all may be doomed according to you “The Messenger” as you were told.


also, I dont use those fuzzy term Qigong....etc. but very specific details term. that is because everything said needs to be able to implemented and pragmatic.

Yeah,,,, and you will really pick it up if you’re a MITT Graduate too, because higher education makes the world go-round:rolleyes:.

[anerlich]

I believe it is time to raise this issue because martial artists needs to be strong and healthy to protect others. instead of going through all type of macho stuffs and by the age of 45, the body run like an old car.


I'm 57, and myself and most of my nontraditional MA peers without access to the 1850s or 1600 "technology" (it's highly debatable whether the concept of "technology" existed in either era) do not experience the symptoms you feel compelled to warn us about.

In my experience following a Western style healthy diet and sensible exercise program have resulted in more leaps in longevity and health into old age then those of TCMA masters. There are very few IMA or WC masters that lived as long as Helio Gracie or Jack LaLanne.

And despite "all" the anecdotal evidence presented, I think I'll take my lifestyle advice from people qualified in related disciplines rather than a Buddhist engineer who dabbles in amateur history.

My advice to all - avoid unproven exotic diet plans and lifestyle practices based on
ideology promoted by the unqualified, passionate or otherwise.

Passion can be misguided.

Think for yourself. Question authority, especially the self-promoted kind.


YK transform for those who are truly seeking

I seek down paths other than that one, which I am confident goes nowhere I would ever want to be.

[GlennR]

I am in my 50s now. we dont live forever, I have spend 30+ years in trying to figure out what the heck is going on. so, it is my believe that if I dont want these things to be lost, I need to release it without reservation. at some point of our life we need to do something to contribute to the public.

not to mention, all what I am present doesnt belongs to me but the red boat WCK ancestors. It will be very selfish if I dont present it openly.

The question would be, who says that even after 30 years you are right?


my personal view is that, WCK needs to adapt to the five layers or equavalent systematic teaching. otherwise WCK does not have a bright future but get limited in the very tribal type of thinking and teaching. As we know, none of those tribal type of thinking and teaching will survive evolution and new technology.

Well if evolution is the judge why isnt the "1850 WC" still prevalent? Perhaps evolution did its job


Like everything in the history, people always get short because of bringing up new ideas and concept. so, that is expected by me. also, i dont blame people for those because we ourselve will also did those stuffs, if we are in a different position. it is not the people it is the situation and position.


Thanks for the understanding attitude.


No one needs to like the Yik Kam transform and I do not expect every one to like it. However, I do want to say that, if you dont like it, create your own. but make very sure you have all based covered. because the technology in martial art is going to get more and more high tech. a style can get obsolete over night. and I dont want to see any WCK lineage fade away.


So youre suggesting that everything else out there is flawed? Otherwise why would we have to create our own?

[Hendrik]

The question would be, who says that even after 30 years you are right?




Those who can activate the sets to attain the dynamic body structure, momentum recycle, force pulse generation are right.

[Hendrik]

See there you go again, with your personal POV “of those poor people” who don’t do/know what you do (sad); so all may be doomed according to you “The Messenger” as you were told.



Yeah,,,, and you will really pick it up if you’re a MITT Graduate too, because higher education makes the world go-round:rolleyes:.


1. If you like to take yourself as poor people every time other present something that is your freedom.

2. You don't have to keep reading my posts . No one force you to isnt it?
As you say you are a strong mind not a weak mind. Strong mind can just cut it off and never waste time on reading and complaining on something they don't like to read.

[nasmedicine]

I am in my 50s now. we dont live forever, I have spend 30+ years in trying to figure out what the heck is going on. so, it is my believe that if I dont want these things to be lost, I need to release it without reservation. at some point of our life we need to do something to contribute to the public.

not to mention, all what I am present doesnt belongs to me but the red boat WCK ancestors. It will be very selfish if I dont present it openly.

my personal view is that, WCK needs to adapt to the five layers or equavalent systematic teaching. otherwise WCK does not have a bright future but get limited in the very tribal type of thinking and teaching. As we know, none of those tribal type of thinking and teaching will survive evolution and new technology.

Like everything in the history, people always get short because of bringing up new ideas and concept. so, that is expected by me. also, i dont blame people for those because we ourselve will also did those stuffs, if we are in a different position. it is not the people it is the situation and position.


No one needs to like the Yik Kam transform and I do not expect every one to like it. However, I do want to say that, if you dont like it, create your own. but make very sure you have all based covered. because the technology in martial art is going to get more and more high tech. a style can get obsolete over night. and I dont want to see any WCK lineage fade away.


also, I dont use those fuzzy term Qigong....etc. but very specific details term. that is because everything said needs to be able to implemented and pragmatic.

I understand and I agree. Bottom line it's up to the individual.

[Hendrik]

I understand and I agree. Bottom line it's up to the individual.

Yup. It is a free world.

[k gledhill]

I'm 57, and myself and most of my nontraditional MA peers without access to the 1850s or 1600 "technology" (it's highly debatable whether the concept of "technology" existed in either era) do not experience the symptoms you feel compelled to warn us about.

In my experience following a Western style healthy diet and sensible exercise program have resulted in more leaps in longevity and health into old age then those of TCMA masters. There are very few IMA or WC masters that lived as long as Helio Gracie or Jack LaLanne.

And despite "all" the anecdotal evidence presented, I think I'll take my lifestyle advice from people qualified in related disciplines rather than a Buddhist engineer who dabbles in amateur history.

My advice to all - avoid unproven exotic diet plans and lifestyle practices based on
ideology promoted by the unqualified, passionate or otherwise.

Passion can be misguided.

Think for yourself. Question authority, especially the self-promoted kind.



I seek down paths other than that one, which I am confident goes nowhere I would ever want to be.

103 ! Chu Chung Man

[nasmedicine]

I've tried the foreign concept thing myself dealing with this: http://detroitwingchun.com/steinerdigrams.htm Man I caught hell, I’m agreeing with him (because I know). I don’t remember you standing up preaching back then about being nice to foreign concept week for me -or- anyone else for that matter; sounds like you had a cup of that “tea” Hendrik was talking about.

Back then I didn't know anyone who had learned the YK transform. However there were many occasions where I agreed with Hendrik purely based on my interpretation of what I read. It is only now that I realized that I wasn't to far off, yet at the same time there were subtitles that one would never get from reading. It's not better than anything nor is is worse it's just a systematic way to train the YKT to bring back the internal aspect to one's WC. You don't have to train the YK style to master it. So you can keep your existing WC and incorporate this into it and "transform" it. You can talk to Navin, Mike or even Jim for more input.

[Hendrik]

Back then I didn't know anyone who had learned the YK transform. However there were many occasions where I agreed with Hendrik purely based on my interpretation of what I read. It is only now that I realized that I wasn't to far off, yet at the same time there were subtitles that one would never get from reading. It's not better than anything nor is is worse it's just a systematic way to train the YKT to bring back the internal aspect to one's WC. You don't have to train the YK style to master it. So you can keep your existing WC and incorporate this into it and "transform" it. You can talk to Navin, Mike or even Jim for more input.

Yes, that is true.

It is about support to make every ones investment in WCK practice of sets to have a great return. And no longer keep practicing sets but dont know what to expect.

[nasmedicine]

I'm 57, and myself and most of my nontraditional MA peers without access to the 1850s or 1600 "technology" (it's highly debatable whether the concept of "technology" existed in either era) do not experience the symptoms you feel compelled to warn us about.

In my experience following a Western style healthy diet and sensible exercise program have resulted in more leaps in longevity and health into old age then those of TCMA masters. There are very few IMA or WC masters that lived as long as Helio Gracie or Jack LaLanne.

And despite "all" the anecdotal evidence presented, I think I'll take my lifestyle advice from people qualified in related disciplines rather than a Buddhist engineer who dabbles in amateur history.

My advice to all - avoid unproven exotic diet plans and lifestyle practices based on
ideology promoted by the unqualified, passionate or otherwise.

Passion can be misguided.

Think for yourself. Question authority, especially the self-promoted kind.



I seek down paths other than that one, which I am confident goes nowhere I would ever want to be.

You can't dawg it unless you try it. I'm a realist and my logic is result based. If I want to built my endurance I cross train, If I want to lower my weight I eat healthy food, If I want to understand more about internal wing chun I check out whatever is available.

Unfortunately there isn't to much out there and 90% of that is garbage. But I agree with you that one should see their own path and try what works for them, but please keep in mind that the Yik Kam Transform at the end of the day is only a name.

If I wanted to I would rename it to something more western and less "exotic". It's not the name or the ego of the person preaching "My stuff works!", the better question is "Will it work for me?". What you've done so far has worked very well for you and that's great.

If your content then more power to you. When you are finally not content then you will seek and that doesn't necessarily have to be on this forum, right? To be honest sometimes I wonder why anybody would share one this forum in light of the constant backlash, but at the end of the day you only share something when you really want other people to have it as well, regardless of the criticism. Can't please everyone. For those who don't want it, they don't have to take it and instead can get it from somewhere else. Nothing wrong with that at all. I do it all the time.

[Ali. R]

1. If you like to take yourself as poor people every time other present something that is your freedom..

You cannot free me my mind its already free, oh dear messenger


2. You don't have to keep reading my posts . No one force you to isnt it? As you say you are a strong mind not a weak mind. Strong mind can just cut it off and never waste time on reading and complaining on something they don't like to read.

As long as I don’t come and sit in your circle my mind will always stay strong. I don’t need anyone to tell me what my mind needs. Thanks but no thanks; because I’m not weak minded.

I advise you to stay out of people heads; you’re not a Doctor, so stop playing like one with your “Psychophysical” approach.

I’m sorry Hendrik but your superior intellect could get you in a lot of trouble if you’re not careful. I know what I’m reading; so you can’t fool me like the others.

[Hendrik]

You cannot free me my mind its already free, oh dear messenger



As long as I don’t come and sit in your circle my mind will always stay strong. I don’t need anyone to tell me what my mind needs. Thanks but no thanks; because I’m not weak minded.

I advise you to stay out of people heads; you’re not a Doctor, so stop playing like one with your “Psychophysical” approach.

I’m sorry Hendrik but your superior intellect could get you in a lot of trouble if you’re not careful. I know what I’m reading; so you can’t fool me like the others.



Thanks for your opinion.

There is no superior intellect here but common sense.
Also, I am just pull the curtain to let everyone who like to see what is in WCK.

[Ali. R]

Thanks for your opinion.

There is no superior intellect here but common sense.
Also, I am just pull the curtain to let everyone who like to see what is in WCK.

Sure, the common sense part is your doing “Psychophysical Chi Kung”….

[Hendrik]

As for those who exposed to YKT . Within a week the following result are to be expected.




1. Physical layer

Aware of the condition and be able to use the six bows at all time naturally. Aware of How the six bow forming both static and dynamic structure.



2. Mind layer

Aware of the state of mind, and be able to switch from thinking, intention, aware, visualization as needed, also know the level of the Shen or present.



3. Breathing layer

Aware of the breathing , and can switch to natural lower abs breathing as needed.



4. Qi layer

Aware of the exist of the qi development and the flow the 20 medirians in different physical movements, the using the qi medirians to aid movement or force handling.



5. Force vector, momentum, WCK core tactic layer

Aware of the different between body type power generation and force line type power generation. Aware of the pulse power generation comes from force line type power generation. Aware of six directional force and force vector balancing.

Aware of momentum type and momentum recycling.

Aware of the core of WCK style tactic.



With the above experience In the details and handling of the five layers , expanding the horizon of today's mind set to 1850 mind set, one now be able to unlock the sets of thier own lineage and improve their effective and effient of their training.


Thus, YkT is similar to a digital photo rebuild. It is a tool or technology to be pair restore the color and depth of the old pictures. Nothing more nothing less. Your sets in your lineage has all the five layers with the lineage signature or combination. Once you know the five layers you can read these.


As an example, some lineage has the term Nim Lik.

Using the five layers to decode the action, one knows it is a combination of phycial bow formation, visualization , and line force handling.

By knowing these one can reproduce it and know the boundary condition.

Thus, Nim Lik is not some type of mysterious power create by intention or mind over matter...etc but a physical, force vector based phenomenon.

It is a transform because it let you see clearly what is the basic elements and do you have the handling.

So, why is the YKT works ? because it exposes one to the key basic elements or ingredient of WCK design via the mind set of 1850 red boat era.

To answer the question of Robert and Rene book the complete wing Chun. Imho, Anyone Who has a holistic basic elements of WCK 1850 is complete wing Chun, disregards of lineage.

[Robinhood]

The only way you can judge what Henrick is saying works, is if you have traveled that path. If you are happy with the path you are on, then you will not care about his path.

But if you think his path will give you things you don't have, and you know he has these things from following his path, then you might try his path.

But before you will try his path, you will usually have to be convinced that he gained these things from his path.

Most people just don't think there is anything to gain from different path, because they have not experienced the benefits from what the other path has.

This being a MA forum, most people will have to experience MA benefit before considering a different path, that is just the way things work.

Cheers

[Ali. R]

I don’t want to hurt hendrik, but I don’t want to see other hurt as well.

Yeah,,,, it’s a lot to gain from other paths, but I will not give my mind as a wagon to ride in. He is playing with a form of medicine in a “Chi Kung” sense that could be very dangerous if he is not a certified doctor in that field, you guys just don’t get it; I’m not making this stuff up, ask the right questions and do the research, which should be easy for those who already seen him; how was the atmosphere/surroundings?

[Robinhood]

I agree , but nobody is going to blindly follow him anyway, you should have an instructor , and be aware of over doing it, no nut case balls out guys for sure.

Slow and simple approach is best, one simple step at a time.

Cheers

[Ali. R]

Especially when dealing with the mind…

Take care,

[Hendrik]

I don’t want to hurt hendrik, but I don’t want to see other hurt as well.

Yeah,,,, it’s a lot to gain from other paths, but I will not give my mind as a wagon to ride in. He is playing with a form of medicine in a “Chi Kung” sense that could be very dangerous if he is not a certified doctor in that field, you guys just don’t get it; I’m not making this stuff up, ask the right questions and do the research, which should be easy for those who already seen him; how was the atmosphere/surroundings?


1. You can not hurt me because I am just present the content of wing Chun 1850

2. It is actually much much safer for the public to know the five layers because one knows what one dealing with . Getting what one sees. Knowing the boundary and know where to get support. And what to and what not to practice.
Compare with learning those chain punch, nim Lik, inch punch, dynamic tension, killing instint, and doing slt for hours as the common practice in WCK without a consideration of the body and mind limit.

3. Nope. No one including me is playing any type of medicine in chi Kung.....etc. any one who knows wing Chun 1850 knows it is natural daily life human basic living. In fact it is only about knowing ones body and mind better.

4. A question need to be ask is, is isn't it very misleading to comment on something one has no idea what it is?


5. Hahaha, ask Jim or mike or Navin and others, do they has to do "ommm" and meditate and bow and believe? Hahaha. Ans burning incense, and wearing those pajamas....ect.

[Ali. R]

It is actually much much safer for the public to know the five layers because one knows what one dealing with.

I do speak the truth; a least you gave me that; because your way is a lot "safer" .


Getting what one sees. Knowing the boundary and know where to get support.

If you are the "Messenger" then they only know what you tell them, because you are the "support" the “Messenger”, and they will only see want you want them to see.

[Ali. R]

Hahaha, ask Jim or mike or Navin and others, do they has to do "ommm" and meditate and bow and believe? Hahaha. Ans burning incense, and wearing those pajamas....ect.

No, because that would be a dead giveaway; but I’m sure you had other things that would supplement for that, I’m not dumb…

[Hendrik]

No, because that would be a dead giveaway; but I’m sure you had other things that would supplement for that, I’m not dumb…

In fact, I am the one always telling wcners. Be it Jim Rosalendo or Mike to not touch those so called qi gung. And never o internal art training without a qualify teacher.

You assume too much. Similar to the general new age spiritual and modern qigong followers, you have a totally mis assumption.

You dont have to believe me, but to find out is very simple, just share with us who you learn your material On qigong from? That will be a good data point.

[Hendrik]

If you are the "Messenger" then they only know what you tell them, because you are the "support" the “Messenger”.

wrong again, I dont tell them anything. They find out if things making sense by themself.

[Ali. R]

No assumption. Typical defense when dealing with this subject.


In fact, I am the one always telling wcners. Be it Jim Rosalendo or Mike to not touch those so called qi gung. And never o internal art training without a qualify teacher.

Like I said; they will only see what you want them to see when using the“psychophysical” approach.

[Hendrik]

No assumption. Typical defense when dealing with this subject.



Like I said; they will only see what you want them to see when using the“psychophysical” approach.


1. you think too much.


2. the WCK three sets has all the five layers in it.
and according to the statics from Hong Kong wck group, there are about a million of people practice the three sets.

so, why dont you worry on the improper handling of the five layers and cause long term health and mind issue?

instead of against to educate the people on the five layers--- to let the million WCners know what they are dealing with and how to do things right?

Read this.

http://www.chusaulei.com/martial/columns/columns_demon.html

This is the reality one face if one doesnt have a good handling of the five layers.



3. to me. you sound like those Qing official in the 1850, they believe in taking photograph is no good because the Westerner capture your soul into that little black box and you are hex.

instead of learning that is just physics got totally nothing to do with soul.

YKT is all about physics and education. out of the five layers four of them are totally physical. the mind layer is just to recognize the function of the mind in the operation of the other four layers. simple as that. unless you want to think like the Qing official of 1850.

[Ali. R]

I’m sorry hendrik, I’ll rather walk away from all of this, Dr. "Messenger"; just please be careful.

You don’t have to prove anything to me because I know better, and have known this for many years within the way -or- via "psychology".

[Hendrik]

I’m sorry hendrik, I’ll rather walk away from all of this, Dr. "Messenger"; just please be careful.

You don’t have to prove anything to me because I know better, and have known this for many years within the way -or- via "psychology".


Like Always, thank you for your opinion.

I dont have to prove anything because it is just it is.
and

millions of WCners are practicing it everyday knowing or not.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Hendrick, you do realize that Ali is Muslim, yes?

[Hendrik]

Hendrick, you do realize that Ali is Muslim, yes?

I speak about WCK and only WCK.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I speak about WCK and only WCK.

Sound like you going beyond the "fighting art" of WC and into "spiritual parameters".
Maybe you wanna check that IF you think you were JUST speaking about A fighting system.

[Hendrik]

Sound like you going beyond the "fighting art" of WC and into "spiritual parameters".
Maybe you wanna check that IF you think you were JUST speaking about A fighting system.


you must have not read my previous posts.

[sanjuro_ronin]

you must have not read my previous posts.

Oh I did.
Just out of curiosity, you still punch people in the face with your WCK, right?

[Hendrik]

Oh I did.
Just out of curiosity, you still punch people in the face with your WCK, right?


That got nothing to do with this thread.

you are a moderator.
I expect you to behave and not cause disruptive.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That got nothing to do with this thread.

you are a moderator.
I expect you to behave and not cause disruptive.

It was a valid question that seems to have touched a nerve...
Do you still cause physical harm with your WC? do you still train to do so?

[Hendrik]

It was a valid question that seems to have touched a nerve...
Do you still cause physical harm with your WC? do you still train to do so?


A good WC man doesnt have to cause any people physical harm.

and again,

what is the point to keep go out of the thread?

[sanjuro_ronin]

A good WC man doesnt have to cause any people physical harm.

and again,

what is the point to keep go out of the thread?

You're right, what is the point.
Sorry.

[Hendrik]

You're right, what is the point.
Sorry.


different opinion is always welcome.

[GlennR]

different opinion is always welcome.

No its not. And it never has been

Youve gone on and on about your own agenda's for years, and have tried convince everyone (without any evidence) that you are right.

Now after waffling on about emei, white crane, snake and so forth while also having shots at current masters (TST comes to mind) you now unleash your 5 layer theory.

And the doosy is that its "above violence" as per Ronin's punch in the nose comment.

Well that would preclude you having to show/give any supporting evidence to your claims.... all very convenient

[Hendrik]

No its not. And it never has been

Youve gone on and on about your own agenda's for years, and have tried convince everyone (without any evidence) that you are right.

Now after waffling on about emei, white crane, snake and so forth while also having shots at current masters (TST comes to mind) you now unleash your 5 layer theory.

And the doosy is that its "above violence" as per Ronin's punch in the nose comment.

Well that would preclude you having to show/give any supporting evidence to your claims.... all very convenient



1. Your opinion is ok with me.


2. shot at TST? my comment on TST demo according to Chinese Internal martial art reference. you dont have to take it.

3. you dont have to read my thread either. you are free to choose.

[stonecrusher69]

It was a valid question that seems to have touched a nerve...
Do you still cause physical harm with your WC? do you still train to do so?

Having met Hendrik and trained with him, he is capable of defending himself. The 5 layers does train the martial aspect,but its not ALL about hurting someone. The only agenda hendrik has is to help people who want to help them selves.

[Robinhood]

As far as hurting anyone, that is more of a level reached, if you reach a level that you are in control of events, then it is up to you how you want things to go.


Cheers

[Ali. R]

I had great parents that develop my mind to stay and be in control, if needed. Now I’m adult and still don’t have problems with what my parents taught me, and I can handle my own problems without mental intervention from a martial art instructor -or- “messenger”.

[Hendrik]

As far as hurting anyone, that is more of a level reached, if you reach a level that you are in control of events, then it is up to you how you want things to go.


Cheers

think positively handle and dissolve.

one's world is only a reflection of what one keeps thinking about.
one's result is an outcome of what one keep thinking.



Dao De Jing chapter 31

Weapons are the tools of violence;
all decent men detest them.

Weapons are the tools of fear;
a decent man will avoid them
except in the direst necessity
and, if compelled, will use them
only with the utmost restraint.
Peace is his highest value.
If the peace has been shattered,
how can he be content?
His enemies are not demons,
but human beings like himself.
He doesn't wish them personal harm.
Nor does he rejoice in victory.
How could he rejoice in victory
and delight in the slaughter of men?

He enters a battle gravely,
with sorrow and with great compassion,
as if he were attending a funeral.

[Hendrik]

I had great parents that develop my mind to stay and be in control, if needed. Now I’m adult and still don’t have problems with what my parents taught me, and I can handle my own problems without mental intervention from a martial art instructor -or- “messenger”.

That is great!

[GlennR]

1. Your opinion is ok with me.

Im not worried about your approval



2. shot at TST? my comment on TST demo according to Chinese Internal martial art reference. you dont have to take it.

Two things that set you apart from TST. He can do what he says he can, and he doesnt constantly try to jam his agenda down other peoples throats


3. you dont have to read my thread either. you are free to choose

Its a forum, so ill choose to comment if i like

[Hendrik]

Two things that set you apart from TST. He can do what he says he can, and he doesnt constantly try to jam his agenda down other peoples throats



1. I comment on TST demo.
If that is a fact , it is a fact. Disregard of who says.
If it is not a fact, then that comment got nothing to do with him but my blindness.
Either way, how does it matter you?


2. I start a thread in the forum , those who likes it can join discussion. Those who don't like it is not force to join.
If you do not like it then just ignore my post. Why even waste energy?

[nasmedicine]

As far as hurting anyone, that is more of a level reached, if you reach a level that you are in control of events, then it is up to you how you want things to go.


Cheers

Well said, You can learn the most deadly form/art/techniques but it doesn't mean that you want to hurt anyone. IMHO, Most people who learn martial arts never have to use it. Why train it then one might say? because there is more to martial arts then just out right violence (i.e. tradition, culture, health/exercise).

[EternalSpring]

Interesting. While the Ving Tsun I practice doesn't seem to use the same terms, I was also taught similar things from my sifu as well. Except I most definitely did not understand anything about the "five layers" within a week but rather after years of training lol.

Not to say anything to bring down any art, but in regards to these 5-layers and 1850's Ving Tsun, I feel that many lineages from Ip Man have these same things except that they're not talked about in the curriculum. But this doesn't mean it's not there. From what I understand, Ip Man Ving Tsun forms are about showing as little as possible and expanding those techniques through training. This can be seen in Chum Kiu where we only do one "side kick." Does it mean we dont do side kicks w/ the other leg? No, it's just that the idea is if you have the root idea at least once, you can train it on the other side on your own and add whatever alterations you need. Chum Kiu moves left and right/up and down, but does this mean Ip Man lineage Ving Tsunners only move forward and backwards? Of course not.

In a short way of saying it, I would explain the 5 layer basics in my lineage of Ving Tsun by saying something similar to what you said except that instead of learning about all 5 at once, I started by training my body and working on the physical layer. As i learned more about the energies and trained them against pressure, it trained my intention and went on to training the mind layer. Once my body knew what to do, it was important to coordinate my breathing with each movement, this is what you call the third/breathing layer. Now, with my mind, body, and breath working together, this naturally leads to cultivating the fourth/qi layer. IMO, in my training at least, the 5th layer you mention also starts at the beginning and grows as you understand the other layers. So while it may not be written on my or my sifu's curriculum, other styles of post 1850's ving tsun can also have the things you mention in your Ving Tsun

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=EternalSpring;1173167]
Not to say anything to bring down any art, but in regards to these 5-layers and 1850's Ving Tsun, I feel that many lineages from Ip Man have these same things except that they're not talked about in the curriculum. But this doesn't mean it's not there.
-------------------------------------------------------
True. Hendrik has organized his knoledge in his way. Nothing wrong with that. But some of the better Ip man lineages have the equivalent of Hendrik;s five layers.
joy chaudhuri

[Hendrik]

The mind layer in more details

The mind layer of the five layers introduce one to the function of the mind. and they are the thinking, intention, aware, and visualization function. and the indicator of how charge up one can use these function is the Shen or Present- ness.

Thinking is how to use the mind to do a math such as 234 x 12. that is thinking.
intention is how to command the finger to point at the window.
aware is knowing something without effort. such as knowing one's belly button.
Visualization is picture a picture in one's mind.

Present -ness is the alertness one has. for example, if one has a great rest one has a refresh and alert mind that is having a strong Present-ness. if one doesnt sleep for a night and having a dull and absent minded mind that is weak Present-ness.

So, we know there are four functions and the Present-ness which are the key of handling mind. at different situation when a function is called for, the level of the Present-ness must be known to see if the function could be fully support. also each function comes with different weight or dissipation.


as an examples for these four function and the present-ness

in Chi Sau, one uses the Awareness. in pushing something one uses the intention. and in balance force vectors one uses visualization. when one get into the worry mode one shut of the thinking. when one is absent minded one knows, it is no good to play anymore. there are different button to turn for different needs. it is not just one button fits it all.

in Chi Sau, there is a WCK saying " worrying of being hit will get hit."
that is saying : one is busying worrying or thinking , end up in a tunnel vision or non real time, and lost the awareness. thus, one will get hit.



Notice that the mind layer doesnt talk about STATEs of mind like those in the religious or spiritual writting? it just plainly deal with the functions of mind to help one knows and be able to handle the mind. the basic and very basic instead of getting into those imagination, fantasy and dream STATEs and lost in the twilight Zone like some philosophy stuffs.


also, instead of translate the Shen as Spirit as in some meditation Books or Daoist book or Qigong Book. here it is just the Present -ness. this is because it is what it is, every human has that, one doesnt need to make it mysterious and confuse the heck out of everyone and feeling lost oneself because one has no idea what it is in real life.


By knowing the basic function and the indicator of mind. this will help one's WCK practice and aid one in every day life to live a balance human beings. for example, if you are angry with something drop that angry thinking, do not feed that angry thought and let it run your body.
that is the benifit of knowing these functions and be able to switch them as needed.

[Hendrik]

[QUOTE=EternalSpring;1173167]
Not to say anything to bring down any art, but in regards to these 5-layers and 1850's Ving Tsun, I feel that many lineages from Ip Man have these same things except that they're not talked about in the curriculum. But this doesn't mean it's not there.
-------------------------------------------------------
True. Hendrik has organized his knoledge in his way. Nothing wrong with that. But some of the better Ip man lineages have the equivalent of Hendrik;s five layers.
joy chaudhuri



I careless if it is my way , as soon as these stuffs are present . that is the bottom line.

I have told Jim Roselando that I careless if he called it Boston Red Lobster system as his curriculum as soon as all the material is present.

WCK is not my invention, and the transform is a tool for one to know WCK, that's all.


as I have told Joy, my idea on the next generation WCK is like the University education system, one can go to any gorvenment credited university to learn engineering. with a good standard and quality learning.

[Hendrik]

Interesting. While the Ving Tsun I practice doesn't seem to use the same terms, I was also taught similar things from my sifu as well. Except I most definitely did not understand anything about the "five layers" within a week but rather after years of training lol.

Not to say anything to bring down any art, but in regards to these 5-layers and 1850's Ving Tsun, I feel that many lineages from Ip Man have these same things except that they're not talked about in the curriculum. But this doesn't mean it's not there. From what I understand, Ip Man Ving Tsun forms are about showing as little as possible and expanding those techniques through training. This can be seen in Chum Kiu where we only do one "side kick." Does it mean we dont do side kicks w/ the other leg? No, it's just that the idea is if you have the root idea at least once, you can train it on the other side on your own and add whatever alterations you need. Chum Kiu moves left and right/up and down, but does this mean Ip Man lineage Ving Tsunners only move forward and backwards? Of course not.

In a short way of saying it, I would explain the 5 layer basics in my lineage of Ving Tsun by saying something similar to what you said except that instead of learning about all 5 at once, I started by training my body and working on the physical layer. As i learned more about the energies and trained them against pressure, it trained my intention and went on to training the mind layer. Once my body knew what to do, it was important to coordinate my breathing with each movement, this is what you call the third/breathing layer. Now, with my mind, body, and breath working together, this naturally leads to cultivating the fourth/qi layer. IMO, in my training at least, the 5th layer you mention also starts at the beginning and grows as you understand the other layers. So while it may not be written on my or my sifu's curriculum, other styles of post 1850's ving tsun can also have the things you mention in your Ving Tsun


1. Great! keep up the great work!

2. WCK is WCK disregards of which lineage. as I have mention in the previous post, WCner did the 3 sets and all the five layers is in the three sets.

3. one can do the transform within a week or a few days, and even expand the horizon of WCK veterans who has many years of experience, because the Wing Chun 1850 does have some technology that is cutting the learning time where it is not as trivial as in the Wing Chun 1950. Thus, it is called a Transform.

[EternalSpring]

I careless if it is my way , as soon as these stuffs are present . that is the bottom line.

I have told Jim Roselando that I careless if he called it Boston Red Lobster system as his curriculum as soon as all the material is present.

WCK is not my invention, and the transform is a tool for one to know WCK, that's all.


as I have told Joy, my idea on the next generation WCK is like the University education system, one can go to any gorvenment credited university to learn engineering. with a good standard and quality learning.

well said! i wholeheartedly agree. I just wanted to also say that post 1850's systems can also have the same characteristics even though they dont talk about them openly. For the record, I still appreciate your posts because seeing the way your lineage lays it out gave me an understanding on another way how i could also lay out what i've come to learn from Ving Tsun.

on a side note, the stuff I said about the five layers also applies for past discussions on snake and crane as well, at least imo. Those movements are also seen in the Ip Man lineages, but just not spoken about a lot because we're Ving Tsunners and not Snake or Crane martial artists. I just wanted to mention that because I was dying to say it when people were talking about snake and crane but i never got around to it lol. Also because I think i remember you mentioning the openings in Biu Jee and how a lot of Ip Man Lineages have the straight locked arm while other lineages have the wavey snake movement after the punch. While we do keep the straight arm, that's really the seed for the more snakelike motion. To put it in my words, the things you think are missing from Ip man lineages are actually there but the forms only show it in the most subtle way. Again, just to make it clear, im not arguing with what you've been saying (and i sincerely like reading about your views most of the time), but rather just explaining how the things you think are missing from post 1850's Ving Tsun are not really missing.


1. Great! keep up the great work!

2. WCK is WCK disregards of which lineage. as I have mention in the previous post, WCner did the 3 sets and all the five layers is in the three sets.

3. one can do the transform within a week or a few days, and even expand the horizon of WCK veterans who has many years of experience, because the Wing Chun 1850 does have some technology that is cutting the learning time where it is not as trivial as in the Wing Chun 1950. Thus, it is called a Transform.

Out of curiosity, can people really do anything that significant with the transform theory within days? I mean, i can see how they can understand the concepts in a sense as head knowledge, but how can someone train a few days and truly understand the something like the qi layer concept? That question may be the result of my own ignorance, but how can someone really understand anything about ki or even breathing without first understanding the physical and intent stage first? And those would normally take more than even a few weeks/months imo.

[Hendrik]

Out of curiosity, can people really do anything that significant with the transform theory within days?

I mean, i can see how they can understand the concepts in a sense as head knowledge, but how can someone train a few days and truly understand the something like the qi layer concept?

That question may be the result of my own ignorance, but how can someone really understand anything about ki or even breathing without first understanding the physical and intent stage first? And those would normally take more than even a few weeks/months imo.


Yes. It is a turning point could be trip within 24 hours .

1. It is a transform which really happen not a theory.

2. It is a five layers experience not an understanding.

3. Once the engine is on.
Even one still need to cultivate to develop it. One passed the point of no return. As it says Toto it is not Kansas anymore.

4. If the engine is not on, one can take a life time and never get it.

5. Ki is not something mysterious at all. It is a part of human body. One doesn't understand qi. One identify it and know it.

[YouKnowWho]

Sound like you going beyond the "fighting art" of WC and into "spiritual parameters".
Agree with you 100% there.

Why people don't like to talk about "combat" here? I don't know about others, I go to gym 3 times a week for "health". I train TCMA for "combat". I don't do much for spiritual development (I must be a bad person). :(

[Hendrik]

What string? It is real. Levitation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wChk5nY3Kzg

[imperialtaichi]

Why people don't like to talk about "combat" here? I don't know about others, I go to gym 3 times a week for "health". I train TCMA for "combat". I don't do much for spiritual development (I must be a bad person). :(

I am not directing this at anyone, just a general statement.

Many people who train in MA know deep down they cannot fight. To make themselves feel better, many of them create "fantasies" around them, believing that these fantasies will give them supernatural power. These people will have lots and lots of theories, but will never cross hands with anyone because they cannot face the fact that they are living in a fantasy.

Hence, much TCMA'ists these days fight in forums, and not in rings/grounds.

True, it does not mean the winner of a fight has the best method; physical size, determination, athletic ability and "heart" beats techniques almost everytime. And not everyone wants to compete in a cage. But if the person can do what he claims, he should at least have something to show physically, and should not be afraid to have a friendly crossing of hands.

Cheers.

[imperialtaichi]

He (TST) can do what he says he can

Absolutely. Been on the receiving end of TST a number of times back in the days. He can definitely physically demonstrate everything he talks about. :cool:

[GlennR]

Absolutely. Been on the receiving end of TST a number of times back in the days. He can definitely physically demonstrate everything he talks about. :cool:

Just had friends (Beau and his 2 senior students) get back from HK after they trained with TST for 2 weeks...... over 80 and still blowing them away.

They said his level of control and power is hard to express. And you know Beau is hard to impress ;)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Having met Hendrik and trained with him, he is capable of defending himself. The 5 layers does train the martial aspect,but its not ALL about hurting someone. The only agenda hendrik has is to help people who want to help them selves.

really? you know this how?
You tried to beat the crap out of him?

[Matthew]

Agree with you 100% there.

Why people don't like to talk about "combat" here? I don't know about others, I go to gym 3 times a week for "health". I train TCMA for "combat". I don't do much for spiritual development (I must be a bad person). :(

It seemed this thread was about something more than just "combat," why not go to the bullshido forum?

There are good reasons that the bigger named MMA schools near where I am are adding meditation teachers to their lineup. When the mind is too neglected- you can't perform to the utmost level anyway... be it daily life or 'combat.'

Most people call it 'getting in the zone,' although it is hazily defined and not well understood. Well practiced meditation/mind teachers (in their various forms- qigong, zhan zhuang, seated, walking, etc) can teach 'getting in the zone' of the mind efficiently and effectively.

So Good practice would include mind, whether or not you call it spiritual or not.


People like you are taking away from threads like this where people (yes, like Hendrik) are openly sharing.

[Hendrik]

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1173209&postcount=16


Some people always thinking those WCK standing pushing as the ultimate. Well, compare with what is in the above taiji where the full body can fajin.
Those static standing in a lock structure WCK demo doesn't worth much. IMHO.

Layer 5 of the ykt is addressing these force vectors issues. It is not a myth but a science and technology applicable in the real life. And one needs to know what it is.

[Hendrik]

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1173213&postcount=18

The dead trap of book reading taiji and demo WCK are

1. Assume space exchange for time. Instead of response at the location at almost the same instant

2. Left and right part of the body always free to move. Instead of what if the center line get jam and stuck.

3. Hold on to a fix structure . Instead of any fix structure is strong only in a very narrow angle. And dynamic in fighting is changing all the time.


Welcome to the fifth layer. The layer of momentum, force vector, and WCK core tactic. One always need to know what is the assumption and what one get into before contact....


I don't buy those demo WCK short punch and WCK standing resisting power because in Lumbini stadium of Thailand, those are just entertainment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9cNtrrCP0E

[Ali. R]

Hello Matthew,


It seemed this thread was about something more than just "combat," why not go to the bullshido forum?

There are good reasons that the bigger named MMA schools near where I am are adding meditation teachers to their lineup. When the mind is too neglected- you can't perform to the utmost level anyway... be it daily life or 'combat.'

Most people call it 'getting in the zone,' although it is hazily defined and not well understood. Well practiced meditation/mind teachers (in their various forms- qigong, zhan zhuang, seated, walking, etc) can teach 'getting in the zone' of the mind efficiently and effectively.

So Good practice would include mind, whether or not you call it spiritual or not.


People like you are taking away from threads like this where people (yes, like Hendrik) are openly sharing.

This is problem; he shows us his facts in the form of technology (to confuse others), so he says,, and ask for facts from others as if no one else could come up with some of their own and therefore the subject is closed/changed…

Because every fact that I came up with was “psychologically” and “medically” true within all the categories that he speaks in, my terms are medical, psychological and chi kung, because we are all humans and not machine (technology) as he puts it….

This is why he will not even come close to my facts within discussion. This is very smart politically.

But he debunks everything I say or, by saying my language is fuzzy; sounds like a ‘Doctor’ in trouble over a insurance claim to me, but for those who already don’t know that my language is 1000% correct and all of its categories. I’m not making this up, ask the right question and I will tell you no lies.

Take care,

[Hendrik]

I am not directing this at anyone, just a general statement.

Many people who train in MA know deep down they cannot fight. To make themselves feel better, many of them create "fantasies" around them, believing that these fantasies will give them supernatural power.

These people will have lots and lots of theories, but will never cross hands with anyone because they cannot face the fact that they are living in a fantasy.



Cheers.


Very true and agree.

That is also the reason of the systematic transformation and clear scientific mechanics.

It is about seeing and experience the subject directly as it is. Instead of trapping in ones thinking and ideas.

[Hendrik]

Hello Matthew,



This is problem; he shows us his facts in the form of technology (to confuse others), so he says,, and ask for facts from others as if no one else could come up with some of their own and therefore the subject is closed/changed…

Because every fact that I came up with was “psychologically” and “medically” true within all the categories that he speaks in, my terms are medical, psychological and chi kung, because we are all humans and not machine (technology) as he puts it….

This is why he will not even come close to my facts within discussion. This is very smart politically.

But he debunks everything I say or, by saying my language is fuzzy; sounds like a ‘Doctor’ in trouble over a insurance claim to me, but for those who already don’t know that my language is 1000% correct and all of its categories. I’m not making this up, ask the right question and I will tell you no lies.

Take care,


Technology is a scientific process which is repeatable disregard of who or where or pov . Similar to iPad.

iPad comes from Cupertino, california. USA. 2010.


The content of ykt comes from red boat, canton , china 1850. Traceable on Chinese history and culture .

As simple as that. And btw. It is not mine invention. I just share it with the world what i have seen as I share the knowledge of there is an iPad. I don't own apple and iPad is not my creation. There is no you or mine. But these things exist.



Why make live so difficult and make all kind of assumption? Instead of seeing the things as it is?


Everyone could have ideas, but unless one has the process, the technology, one really doesn't have anything to implement ideas. Not to mention both iPad and wingchun 1850 are proven existing technology recorded in the human history.


Wingchun 1850. The opera people, the fine jade association, Red boat revolution, lee man mau...

iPad 2010. Apple inc, Cupertino, caliornia, a new computer era revolution, Steve jobs.



See, there is no Hendrik there. None.

[Ali. R]

Then I believe the word “technology” in that meaning could easy be misleading when one’s statements falls under these categories of Energetic Formation”: spiritual interactions, matter, energies.

And taught in this methodical process: "Energetic/Embryological", all developing in a systematic transformation (understanding).

I get this from reading the thread of those who have visited you; they’d described it to a “T” and from what you talk about as well.

[WC1277]

Technology is a scientific process which is repeatable disregard of who or where or pov . Similar to iPad.

iPad comes from Cupertino, california. USA. 2010.


The content of ykt comes from red boat, canton , china 1850. Traceable on Chinese history and culture .

As simple as that. And btw. It is not mine invention. I just share it with the world what i have seen as I share the knowledge of there is an iPad. I don't own apple and iPad is not my creation. There is no you or mine. But these things exist.



Why make live so difficult and make all kind of assumption? Instead of seeing the things as it is?


Everyone could have ideas, but unless one has the process, the technology, one really doesn't have anything to implement ideas. Not to mention both iPad and wingchun 1850 are proven existing technology recorded in the human history.


Wingchun 1850. The opera people, the fine jade association, Red boat revolution, lee man mau...

iPad 2010. Apple inc, Cupertino, caliornia, a new computer era revolution, Steve jobs.



See, there is no Hendrik there. None.

What you're missing Hendrik is that technology is refined as time goes on usually leading to improvements in efficiency and quality. The new iPad is much better than the original however some will say they don't prefer some of the new features in the operating system part of it. There are others like Motorolla who have based theirs on the original and failed miserably. The important thing is that all technology, whether it's a 1983 computer, an iPad, or even 1850 WC is that it's just a snap shot in time. Is it important? Maybe. Depends on what came after. C programming language is the basis of both c++ and objective-c and both languages use C throughout but you don't see many programmers other than newbies using only C. I'm not advocating adding on to WC here, but what I'm saying is something can be organized and refined to a higher extent. It's all still 1's and 0's at the end of the day. It's the path that may be different. IMO Ip Man and the people he learned with refined the system to that Objective-C level and some still continue today improving the language in which to "program" us students to an even better understanding....

[Hendrik]

What you're missing Hendrik is that technology is refined as time goes on usually leading to improvements in efficiency and quality. The new iPad is much better than the original however some will say they don't prefer some of the new features in the operating system part of it. There are others like Motorolla who have based theirs on the original and failed miserably. The important thing is that all technology, whether it's a 1983 computer, an iPad, or even 1850 WC is that it's just a snap shot in time. Is it important? Maybe. Depends on what came after. C programming language is the basis of both c++ and objective-c and both languages use C throughout but you don't see many programmers other than newbies using only C. I'm not advocating adding on to WC here, but what I'm saying is something can be organized and refined to a higher extent. It's all still 1's and 0's at the end of the day. It's the path that may be different. IMO Ip Man and the people he learned with refined the system to that Objective-C level and some still continue today improving the language in which to "program" us students to an even better understanding....



Good points.

I leave it for the wcners in 2050 to judge.

[Hendrik]

Then I believe the word “technology” in that meaning could easy be misleading when one’s statements falls under these categories of Energetic Formation”: spiritual interactions, matter, energies.

And taught in this methodical process: "Energetic/Embryological", all developing in a systematic transformation (understanding).

I get this from reading the thread of those who have visited you; they’d described it to a “T” and from what you talk about as well.



Do you think. Six bows, force vector, momentums are spiritual interactions ?

[Ali. R]

Do you think. Six bows, force vector, momentums are spiritual interactions ?

Yes I do; they're all parts of the three treasures: Shen (sprit) Chi (engery) Jing (essence) in those substances; which energetically promotes this function: “The Original Sprit”.

[Hendrik]

Yes I do; they're all parts of the three treasures: Shen (sprit) Chi (engery) Jing (essence) in those substances; which energetically promotes this function: “The Original Sprit”.


How is six bow, force vectors, and momentum got to do with these stuffs you are mentioning?

[Ali. R]

How is six bow, force vectors, and momentum got to do with these stuffs you are mentioning?

Everything in the form of: psychophysical, manifestations/transformation, and energetic.

[Hendrik]

Everything in the form of: psychophysical, manifestations/transformation, and energetic.

Ok.

That is too philosophical for me.
Far far far beyond the yik kam transform boundary.

[Ali. R]

You are the guru, just Google what I’m saying or use a dictionary……… :confused:

[Hendrik]

You are the guru, just Google what I’m saying or use a dictionary……… :confused:

I am an engineer not a philosopher also has no interest in those stuffs. Just a human who like to live a simple pragmatic life.

As I mention above, That is too philosophical for me.
Far far far beyond the yik kam transform boundary which is technology and engineering.


Thanks for your sharing view.

[Ali. R]

I am an engineer not a philosopher also has no interest in those stuffs. Just a human who like to live a simple pragmatic life.

As I mention above, That is too philosophical for me.
Far far far beyond the yik kam transform boundary which is technology and engineering.


Thanks for your sharing view.

It’s only far from what you’re talking about; because it is exactly what you’re saying, this is not philosophical but facts; medical, psychological and Chi Kung facts.

Google/Dictionary

[Hendrik]

It’s only far from what you’re talking about; because it is exactly what you’re saying, this is not philosophical but facts; medical, psychological and Chi Kung facts.

Google/Dictionary

thanks for your creative thinking.

[Matthew]

Hi Ali


Hello Matthew,

This is problem; he shows us his facts in the form of technology (to confuse others), so he says,, and ask for facts from others as if no one else could come up with some of their own and therefore the subject is closed/changed…

Ali, my friendly interpretation is that Hendrik is not a native english speaker and so it may just be a simple semantic issue in the discussion here..

Just as my own experience- when I post (and in threads I read) I find most arguments are just because of a misunderstanding, misreading, or misinterpretation.

I'm not saying this applies to you!

Only making a heart felt example of all the many times I got uppity when I misread and accused someone of saying something they didn't.. instead of simply asking them for clarification (and then going forth with the thoughts I had on them if my interpretation was accurate!)



Because every fact that I came up with was “psychologically” and “medically” true within all the categories that he speaks in, my terms are medical, psychological and chi kung, because we are all humans and not machine (technology) as he puts it….

This is why he will not even come close to my facts within discussion. This is very smart politically.

But he debunks everything I say or, by saying my language is fuzzy; sounds like a ‘Doctor’ in trouble over a insurance claim to me, but for those who already don’t know that my language is 1000% correct and all of its categories. I’m not making this up, ask the right question and I will tell you no lies.

Take care,

Thank you Ali for the concern, although I'm not sure why you're telling this to me on an open forum where all are here to discuss as opposed to PM. I'm not sure how much I see what you're saying though about your being 1000% correct and about the validity of the facts you came up with- I didn't read that much into it as it seemed more of a verbal quibble between you and Hendrik rather than a constructive input to his "Yik Kam Transformation"

If your content is true- then maybe you have a large contribution to the thread to suggest *specifically* parts of his Yik Kam transformation that you disagreed with or want to discuss

[Ali. R]

Then ask me what you don’t understand I will clear it all up for you. And YOU help us all understand what Hendrik's teaching is all about (not Hendrik but you ONLY) sense I’m speaking verbal quibble.

Let’s have a conversation.

[Ali. R]

I’m going home from work and will see your replay when I get there.

Take care,

[YouKnowWho]

People like you are taking away from threads like this where people (yes, like Hendrik) are openly sharing.

People like me can

- bring others from the fantasy world back into the real word.
- balance the discussion between "spiritual" and "combat".

As long as Hendrik can include "opponent (or dummy)" in his discussion, I would love to discuss "theory" with him. Only discussing "solo" training" without any reference to "opponent(or dummy)" is not TCMA.

TCMA cannot be trained "solo".

[Hendrik]

People like me can

- bring others from the fantasy world back into the real word.
- balance the discussion between "spiritual" and "combat".

As long as Hendrik can include "opponent (or dummy)" in his discussion, I would love to discuss "theory" with him. Only discussing "solo" training" without any reference to "opponent(or dummy)" is not TCMA.

TCMA cannot be trained "solo".


John,

hahaha.

[Matthew]

Then ask me what you don’t understand I will clear it all up for you. And YOU help us all understand what Hendrik's teaching is all about (not Hendrik but you ONLY) sense I’m speaking verbal quibble.

Let’s have a conversation.

Ali if you want to clear up for me, have a conversation with me, etc feel free to PM me. I don't have questions about your terminology- if you want to clear up your own terminology, or discuss something different- you are welcome to post it all here to open new threads!

At your suggestion, I could try to help us understand what Hendrik is saying- I think it may have benefits/implications outside of his art.. but I am not a WCK player- so WCK player questions may be more specific to his five layers.

I will try to post question to Hendrik for you and others to clear up what he might be trying to do with his posts.

[Matthew]

I’m going home from work and will see your replay when I get there.


Okay

Hi Hendrik, some might be confused about your terminology in english- so at Ali request I am trying to post some basic questions for you.

1) When you say technology- you aren't referring to people, right? To make another possible analogy- do you mean 'technology' as Software- if our physical body is the hardware?

2)My interpretation is that Yik Kam Transformation as you are calling it, is to simplify and categorically determine training methods that can be passed down to future generations as a basis to analyze what they're learning-- Instead of simply letting teachers teach anything loosely or without goal-oriented results-based training.

For example, if I want to eat a cake, no make a chinese soup that's healthier:)- I have two exaggerated examples..
1- Throw lots of different ingredients together and just figure it out.. maybe taking weeks, months, years with wasted time and money.
2- Find an organized-prearranged method of making that that has been proven to both make a soup, and more specifically to make the chinese soup I want to eat

If #1 is the exaggerated example of learning from a teacher who doesn't effectively explain his teachings such that the layers/results are not clearly felt or even clearly defined- or even if they are defined, if the methods are not bringing results in a timely manner and in a way that is easily transmitted/passed down/discussed

If #2 is the exaggerated example of learning from a teacher who can both clearly define these 'layers' in working, practical, and streamlineable terminology, and whose students are achieving the results of these layers in a timely manner rather than relying on mysticism or unclear definitions.

3) Then I am asking- is the chinese soup # 2 your intention for Yik Kam Method?
Is this accurate?

Obviously many cooks can teach to make a chinese soup, but it is about finding the cook who can effectively transmit rather than one who says "you need a bit of a red looking herb and put it in after it gets hot".. compared to "You need 1/4 pound of spring-season picked red radish that is put in when the water reaches a rolling boil".. both will yield results, but if it is clearly laid out- then future generations will spend less time trying to figure out all of the details and have a standard for discussion, etc.

is that a fair interpretation of why you have posted your Yik Kam transformation layers for WCK?

[Ali. R]

Matthew,

You’re ok with me (now), but after your reply and your stipulation, I have nothing to say because; I want the world to hear what I have to convey and not in secret, because I have nothing to hide.

I guess I wasn’t speaking verbal quibble after all.

Hendrik,

I wouldn’t answer that post if I were you. He picks the fight with me and wants you to help HIM out, I know your POV.

[Ali. R]

I’m done and will move on unless you don’t want me to, ‘Hendrik’.

Don’t let him drag you into his mess,

[Hendrik]

Hi Hendrik, some might be confused about your terminology in english- so at Ali request I am trying to post some basic questions for you. --------

Thanks and appreciate!




1) When you say technology- you aren't referring to people, right? To make another possible analogy- do you mean 'technology' as Software- if our physical body is the hardware? ----------


I refer to the "software and hardware handling process " of WCK.

physical body is physical body, the particular way of handling it is the technology.





2)My interpretation is that Yik Kam Transformation as you are calling it, is to simplify and categorically determine training methods that can be passed down to future generations as a basis to analyze what they're learning-- Instead of simply letting teachers teach anything loosely or without goal-oriented results-based training.

For example, if I want to eat a cake, no make a chinese soup that's healthier:)- I have two exaggerated examples..
1- Throw lots of different ingredients together and just figure it out.. maybe taking weeks, months, years with wasted time and money.
2- Find an organized-prearranged method of making that that has been proven to both make a soup, and more specifically to make the chinese soup I want to eat

If #1 is the exaggerated example of learning from a teacher who doesn't effectively explain his teachings such that the layers/results are not clearly felt or even clearly defined- or even if they are defined, if the methods are not bringing results in a timely manner and in a way that is easily transmitted/passed down/discussed

If #2 is the exaggerated example of learning from a teacher who can both clearly define these 'layers' in working, practical, and streamlineable terminology, and whose students are achieving the results of these layers in a timely manner rather than relying on mysticism or unclear definitions. ----------------



Yes. #2.

to have a technology transfer, one needs to have those type of systematic well define details. also, it comes with calibration to make sure it is within range.

similar to build an airplane. everything needs to be clear and present and at the end the plane needs to be able to take off and land as expected.








3) Then I am asking- is the chinese soup # 2 your intention for Yik Kam Method?
Is this accurate?

Obviously many cooks can teach to make a chinese soup, but it is about finding the cook who can effectively transmit rather than one who says "you need a bit of a red looking herb and put it in after it gets hot".. compared to "You need 1/4 pound of spring-season picked red radish that is put in when the water reaches a rolling boil".. both will yield results, but if it is clearly laid out- then future generations will spend less time trying to figure out all of the details and have a standard for discussion, etc.------


Yes, it is accurate.

and these YKT is accurate because

1, it is a presentation of the basic elements (layers or contents) of Yik Kam SLT in todays language.

Yik Kam SLT comes with a writing instruction (of 1850 red boat era or older) and a training set; passing within the inner circle of Cho family for past 150 years.



2. the presentation has been verify via Chinese TCMA , TCM , and internal martial art tradition. from different source, namely from the Daoist practice, the TCM practice, the Buddhism practice, and the practice of the following ancient arts : White Crane of Fujian, Emei 12 Zhuang, Hsing Yi , Taiji , and different Red boat era derive lineages of WCK.

so, The presentation is a verified common denominator of Chinese Internal art practice.


3, thus, the presentation is from a solid trackable verify able source, and has been verified with main stream Chinese internal martial art practice.



is that a fair interpretation of why you have posted your Yik Kam transformation layers for WCK? --------------


Yes.




Finally, it is not my invetion it is sharing what is very very very very very very likely to happen in 1850 red boat when those ancestors training with their WCK.

[Hendrik]

I’m done and will move on unless you don’t want me to, ‘Hendrik’.

Don’t let him drag you into his mess,



I have nothing to hide.

everything I present is open under the sun.

Even if Yim Wing Chun, or Wong wah Po or Yik Kam himself is here I will still say the same thing.

[Matthew]

And YOU help us all understand what Hendrik's teaching is all about

OK, I posted clarification questions to Hendrik..



Hendrik,

I wouldn’t answer that post if I were you. He picks the fight with me and wants you to help HIM out, I know your POV.


:confused: I was asking in that post to help us all out at your request and not solely to "help [MYSELF] out". Further, I'm not interested in these shifting intention you are showing as much as what you constructively have to offer.

To clarify again my POV, Hendrik was not trying to brainwash any of us and he did not even tell us we must practice his five layers. You are so free, you can get on a plane and go to Antarctica and it has nothing to do with it at all.

[GlennR]

I have nothing to hide.

everything I present is open under the sun.

Even if Yim Wing Chun, or Wong wah Po or Yik Kam himself is here I will still say the same thing.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yeh, and if Napoleon Boneparte was here id tell him how to wage battles...... oh thats not going to happen is it

[Matthew]

People like me can

- bring others from the fantasy world back into the real word.
- balance the discussion between "spiritual" and "combat".

As long as Hendrik can include "opponent (or dummy)" in his discussion, I would love to discuss "theory" with him. Only discussing "solo" training" without any reference to "opponent(or dummy)" is not TCMA.

TCMA cannot be trained "solo".

Hi YouKnowWho,

from my experience, it is difficult to define the "real world" and less useful to imply someone is ridiculous or outside of that real world. Not saying you remind me of Chinese media, but they say things like "This person is lying, wolf in sheeps clothes, etc" about religious groups, intelligent individuals, activist dalai lama, etc and it doesn't do constructive justice when compared to specifically discussing or discrediting the topic at hand.

Every single condition in "combat" "fighting" "real fighting", etc are always different- and more difficult to define and discuss only on a forum- do you agree?

I mean, we are in a thread about a teaching methodology developed by Hendrik. I see your point about things being practical in the 'real world'- but in fairness, we're in a typeset discussion with no feeling, body language, etc

so isn't it best to leave that for in-person anyway and save the forum space and your own training time if posts don't relate?


:confused: I think I missed the spiritual part here?

I still standby my last post strongly that "spiritual" practices like meditation are finding their home in modern MMA school curriculum with good reason. IMHO because people were neglecting their mind. IF you are using a western newage definition of spiritual- that can go a whole other direction too...

Could you show me where you think this Yik Kam 5 layers or anything said here is too spiritual, and what you define as spiritual as it relates?

[Matthew]

People like me can

- bring others from the fantasy world back into the real word.
- balance the discussion between "spiritual" and "combat".

As long as Hendrik can include "opponent (or dummy)" in his discussion, I would love to discuss "theory" with him. Only discussing "solo" training" without any reference to "opponent(or dummy)" is not TCMA.

TCMA cannot be trained "solo".



Also I think it is counter to the definition of training to think TCMA cannot be practiced Solo. Even boxers hit a punching bag, shadow box, etc. Also- like I mentioned about MMA schools adding the "solo" practice of meditation to improve their results. Solo training has been one of the most important parts of my experience- and I think you'll find it is not always possible to find people to work with.

I get home from working and maybe have another meeting for work in a couple hours. Zhan Zhuang/Zhuang Gong/Xu Zhuang standing exercises are usually the best solo-practice I Can do to reset any tensions/disconnects with my body the day has brought. Obviously being relaxed, and having a connection to the body is the utmost importance in being an effective "real world fighter"- it is just there are levels of this, it is not like an engine you simply turn on "RELAXED and CONNECTED" it builds through solo practice..

[Ali. R]

physical body is physical body, the particular way of handling it is the technology.

Tech + Mind+ Body = Metaphysical: need the mind to move the body no way around it (Chi Kung).


to have a technology transfer, one needs to have those type of systematic well define details. also, it comes with calibration to make sure it is within range.

Metaphysical/Psychophysical/Energetically/Embryological

The branch of psychology that deals with the relationships between physical stimuli and resulting sensations and mental states and with the possessing or exhibiting energy, especially in abundance; vigorous: an energetic leader. While using the science dealing with: formation, development, structure, and functional activities.

“Heaven and Earth”

[Robinhood]

I think John's real world means sport fighting tournaments that are clearly not real street, but a rule set environment that dictates skill sets by rule sets.

The rule sets usually favor a strength and power, but I can see much improvement in skills being used as time goes on, probably from as someone said before, they are using meditation in MMA training.


Cheers

[Hendrik]

Just for those who is interested. not for everyone because it might not be that readable.



For those who know some engineering.

why am I coin the five layers as five layers?
because I am a system design engineer and working on artificial intelligent system.




So, the five layers can be view as the layers in the artificial neural network ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_network) of the artificial intelligent system or Robot as the following:

each layer has its rule to govern the layer.
IE, the physical has its natural law, momentum has its natural law....etc

after one get all these layer clear and present.


Everytime one practice a set, for example Chum Kiu. the neuron network is actually learning it via programing each of the layer. and the outcome is the system soon will have the Chum Kiu intelligent which be able to identify and execute as needed.


and, when something doesnt run smooth. the system will check for the discontinouity of the programing process and fix it, if that doesnt not solve the issue, it will goes into each layer to check out issue and fix it.




in a layman term, when one practice Chum kil, each layer is getting use to or being program by the Chum kil "program". when something doesnt run smooth, the continuity of the program is checked and fixed. if that doesnt solve the issue one goes down or zoom into each layer to see if the rule gorven that layer is violated and then fixed it.




Compare with a system which has no clear identify layer with rules, do not have a well calibrate layer, which goes with a slogan of " keep doing it you will know." this type of learning will be much faster , effective, and accurate.



Thus, is it a Jedi's training via the transform or a Darth Vaders' cloning. either way. IMHO, that is the secret of why WCK can be learn very fast in 1850 to against advance fighter of other type. remember the legend?

thus, I suggest to put a limit on the layer five or the force vector, momentum, and WCK core tactic layer to those who love to fight to not promote destruction and missed used.

and IMHO, there is evidence that the ancestor has done that. they obsolete the weapon they use in 1850 and change it to the less destructive sun punch.

finally, some have ask me about how real is the legend of WCK in 1850. my answer to them is : as soon as it can be implemented with the 5 layers. it is real. one can bring that to this world.

[Hendrik]

enough of these stuffs. hahaha

entertainment time.

my favorite song. make it a Wing Chun 1850 song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibuYz2muVw0&feature=related

[guy b.]

Compare with a system which has no clear identify layer with rules, do not have a well calibrate layer, which goes with a slogan of " keep doing it you will know." this type of learning will be much faster , effective, and accurate.



Thus, is it a Jedi's training via the transform or a Darth Vaders' cloning. either way. IMHO, that is the secret of why WCK can be learn very fast in 1850 to against advance fighter of other type. remember the legend?

thus, I suggest put a limit on the layer five or the force vector, momentum, and WCK core tactic layer to those who love to fight to not promote destruction and missed used.

finally, some have ask me about how real is the legend of WCK in 1850. my answer to them is : as soon as it can be implemented with the 5 layers. it is real. one can bring that to this world.

This just doesn't make a comprehensible passage in English. Is there any way you can use less convoluted and more physical language?

[Hendrik]

This just doesn't make a comprehensible passage in English. Is there any way you can use less convoluted and more physical language?


forget about that post.

just focus on the first post.
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1172312&postcount=1
this post
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1173068&postcount=61
this post
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1173169&postcount=97
this post
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1173411&postcount=135


It is not easy to understand because it is a subject not common to most.

so ask questions, that way, Jim or Mike or Navin or anyone who knows the subject might explain better. since I am a visual person and english is my 234 language.

[Hendrik]

Let me makes it extremely simple for those I have lost you.


A, the five layers.

1,
Say you are open a company named Wing Chun.
within the company you have five division.

each division has its own way of operation, rules, and standard to meet.
each division is related to other division.

when the company is running. all the five division is operating as individual and also synchronize and inter related to other division.



2, now replace the 5 division with the 5 layer.


3, now replace the way of operation, rules, and standard of each division to the details of each layer which I have posted.


4, now you see this "company called Wing Chun" and the details within it that you need to manage.




B. the Yik Kam transform

1, yik kam transform is the franchise package template to help you to build your "wing Chun company"

2, within the package template there are clear description and instruction of showing you how to build the five division.

3, within the package template it also come with a few working examples for you to test and calibrate each division and syncronize all division to make sure the company core operation is running properly and smoothly.

4, now replace that " a few working examples" to "a few exercises or drills" for you to test and calibrate each of the layers and syncronize all layers.

That is all. as simple as this.




C, learning the Yik Kam transform

When one is going through the Yik Kam Transform within 3 days or 24 hours with 8 hours each. one goes through all the layers in theory and then using the drills to experience and identify the details of the theory.

fourth days and as long as one live, one uses what was learn in the 3 days to fine tune and improve one's WCK.



the schedule sample is as:


on the first day the physical body, mind, and breathing layer is introduced.

the momentum and force vector layer is introduced the seconday day.

the Qi layer is introduced in the third day because by that time one has already has a basic handling of the physical, mind , and breathing layer. one can usually identify it.

yes, you can identify it with your Sam bai fut in your siu lin tao set.

It doesnt need a life time of practice or standing there like fool for hours and hours doing siu lin tao and hope the miracle happen somedays but never happen.

one needs to know it to develop it. it is not a wish but a development needs to by identify.



Can it be done in three days or a week end on something some one might never know for a life time?

yes. anyone who is serious to learn can do it.

it doesnt have to take years to figure out things but start with all bottom lines needs to be known and real life experience on the core elements. different people might have a different variation in the learning result due to different people has different background.

however, the direction and the boundary of the subject is clear to everyone. that is the most important thing because to have a proper direction even if one is a little slower, one always can reach the destination. however, if the direction is unknown then that is trouble.



D. So how much is the Yik Kam Transform package cost?

Nothing.

it is a WCK public properties belongs to the 1850 Wing Chun Red boat ancestors. not individual own.

There is no secret. You practice you have kung fu, I practice I have kung fu, everyone practice everyone has kung fu. not practice no kung fu. that simple.


E. Trash it.

after you know what you are doing. trash the Yik Kam Transform away. because you no longer needs boat after you cross the river.

it is fool to carry boat around like an antics.

[Hendrik]

Let's talk about the basic of the basic in the physical layer.



One needs only to handle three areas to have a nature equal shoulder stance or yjkym.



1. The degree of knee bending handle the "weight" .

A slight bend of knees makes one feel like effortless levitate. Chest , shoulder , hip joints balance and loose up naturally.

In contrary, A straight knees cause tense and effort in chest, and feel top heavy and bottom of the body light. An over bend knees cause tense in hip joints and feel heavily root. Both of these are imbalance .

So, when I says levitate. I mean levitate feeling. One can get there via knees adjustment.



2. A loose lower back ming men area or behind the navel cause the upper and lower body to integrate into one piece, natural lower abs breathing, and open the whole body qi flow. Ming men means the gate of life. One needs to open this area up for a full body development.

Spine, Tail bone...ect comes nature only after this part is handle. Lower abs loose and relax naturally with ease. Lower abs breathing naturally surface. Qi development can be activate.


3. A nature flat back of the neck align the head, upper body, and the flow of ren du medirians. Place your hand on the back of the neck. Look about 60 degree downward with ease. You hand will feel The back of the neck is naturally flat instead of concave or convex.



4. Keep doing adjustment with The above three points to attain the best loose, nature, and ease or effortless as one can. And leave the body effortlessly stay that way.

One will get better and better the more one practice while one progress.


5. when the body is loose and feel levitate naturally, the mind will quite down. The lower abs breathing will naturally form, qi flow must surface.

That is the sequence of how a beginner is lead into experience the first four layers of the yik km transform in a static mode.



6. The development of Jin or power and qi cannot exist if the above three areas are not handle natural properly .

7. Those are the basic of the basic of yjkym. It is natural instead of trying to force anything of the body with mind and having a stress mind. It is about get the best natural to prepar for next step. The mobility and dynamic structure and power generation or flow.

8. In the kuen kuit of yik kam says accumulate qi in Dan Tien.
That accumulate qi in Dan Tien or shink qi in Dan Tien , is an outcome based on the result of let the physical body , mind, lower abs breathing settle as above. And not any type of tensing manipulation. One let go and let it be to naturally get there. One doesn't rely on control to get there.


9. If one learn WCK from yik kam on red boat 1850 that is very very very very likely how he will instruct.

These are just revealing the three basic keys of wing Chun 1850. Not any kind of research and infact no reserch is needed. Why make simple things complex?


10. So from the above you identify your physical body natural state and be able to get back to that state if needed. And keep within the boundary of this natural state in the practice to not go extreme and cause stuck or damage or long term tear and wear. Or in efficiency.



Ok. That's all. Simple right? One doesnt have to take a life time of guessing and wishing . It takes only one hour. If one know what is the keys and goes direct to it. Knows what to do, what to develop, what to expect, what result to get. It is a feedback learning system.


If one doesn't know these three areas one will not know how to develop yjkym of WCK. Further, it will be hopeless to develop siu Lin tau internal.

Try it yourself and see the result. Let the result speak for the technology. That is Wing Chun 1850.

[Hendrik]

So, the above physical layer basic is extremely critical.
One needs to identify it, develop it before get to the next step. In another word, one needs to aware of ones basic physical state.

The next is the second item of the physical layer. The six bows.

The six bows can be activated only after one aware of ones natural physical state and then investigate each bow individually then after that all bows together.



These are a sample of basic of the physical layer handling and it's sequence on how things procced.

It is only after handling these stuffs, the slt can be practiced effectively.

[Matthew]

So, the above physical layer basic is extremely critical.
One needs to identify it, develop it before get to the next step. In another word, one needs to aware of ones basic physical state.

The next is the second item of the physical layer. The six bows.

The six bows can be activated only after one aware of ones natural physical state and then investigate each bow individually then after that all bows together.



These are a sample of basic of the physical layer handling and it's sequence on how things procced.

It is only after handling these stuffs, the slt can be practiced effectively.

Interesting read, thanks Hendrik- your steps one through three are no different than the major parts of the physical fang fa I received from my first lesson by Master Wu (Wu Nan Fang Shifu) for basic standing skill (excluding a couple minor additions/variations including weight on bubbling spring, mouth closed firm (tongue slightly touch), eyes relax, etc.)

I would only criticize the way in which you said the part ' dropping sight to 60 degrees'. I believe you mean the straightening of the neck as if pulling the top of the neck (where spine meets cranium) up and back to straighten the spine- just to clarify the terminology.


Matt

[Jox]

So, the above physical layer basic is extremely critical.
One needs to identify it, develop it before get to the next step. In another word, one needs to aware of ones basic physical state.

The next is the second item of the physical layer. The six bows.

The six bows can be activated only after one aware of ones natural physical state and then investigate each bow individually then after that all bows together.



These are a sample of basic of the physical layer handling and it's sequence on how things procced.

It is only after handling these stuffs, the slt can be practiced effectively.

Thnx Hendrik... :)
Hope we are going through complete YKT...

Jox, :)

[guy b.]

Let's talk about the basic of the basic in the physical layer.



One needs only to handle three areas to have a nature equal shoulder stance or yjkym.



1. The degree of knee bending handle the "weight" .

A slight bend of knees makes one feel like effortless levitate. Chest , shoulder , hip joints balance and loose up naturally.

In contrary, A straight knees cause tense and effort in chest, and feel top heavy and bottom of the body light. An over bend knees cause tense in hip joints and feel heavily root. Both of these are imbalance .

So, when I says levitate. I mean levitate feeling. One can get there via knees adjustment.



2. A loose lower back ming men area or behind the navel cause the upper and lower body to integrate into one piece, natural lower abs breathing, and open the whole body qi flow. Ming men means the gate of life. One needs to open this area up for a full body development.

Spine, Tail bone...ect comes nature only after this part is handle. Lower abs loose and relax naturally with ease. Lower abs breathing naturally surface. Qi development can be activate.


3. A nature flat back of the neck align the head, upper body, and the flow of ren du medirians. Place your hand on the back of the neck. Look about 60 degree downward with ease. You hand will feel The back of the neck is naturally flat instead of concave or convex.



4. Keep doing adjustment with The above three points to attain the best loose, nature, and ease or effortless as one can. And leave the body effortlessly stay that way.

One will get better and better the more one practice while one progress.


5. when the body is loose and feel levitate naturally, the mind will quite down. The lower abs breathing will naturally form, qi flow must surface.

That is the sequence of how a beginner is lead into experience the first four layers of the yik km transform in a static mode.



6. The development of Jin or power and qi cannot exist if the above three areas are not handle natural properly .

7. Those are the basic of the basic of yjkym. It is natural instead of trying to force anything of the body with mind and having a stress mind. It is about get the best natural to prepar for next step. The mobility and dynamic structure and power generation or flow.

8. In the kuen kuit of yik kam says accumulate qi in Dan Tien.
That accumulate qi in Dan Tien or shink qi in Dan Tien , is an outcome based on the result of let the physical body , mind, lower abs breathing settle as above. And not any type of tensing manipulation. One let go and let it be to naturally get there. One doesn't rely on control to get there.


9. If one learn WCK from yik kam on red boat 1850 that is very very very very likely how he will instruct.

These are just revealing the three basic keys of wing Chun 1850. Not any kind of research and infact no reserch is needed. Why make simple things complex?


10. So from the above you identify your physical body natural state and be able to get back to that state if needed. And keep within the boundary of this natural state in the practice to not go extreme and cause stuck or damage or long term tear and wear. Or in efficiency.



Ok. That's all. Simple right? One doesnt have to take a life time of guessing and wishing . It takes only one hour. If one know what is the keys and goes direct to it. Knows what to do, what to develop, what to expect, what result to get. It is a feedback learning system.


If one doesn't know these three areas one will not know how to develop yjkym of WCK. Further, it will be hopeless to develop siu Lin tau internal.

Try it yourself and see the result. Let the result speak for the technology. That is Wing Chun 1850.

This is much clearer and can be followed easily, thanks for taking the time.

Can you do the same with the next stage?

[Vajramusti]

Hendrik is quite clear on what he calls Stage 1.

[guy b.]

Hendrik is quite clear on what he calls Stage 1.

I'm hoping he will be as clear on stage 2

[Hendrik]

I'm hoping he will be as clear on stage 2


This is just a beginning part of the Physical Layer.

Please do not called in stage 1 or stage 2 so that others do not confuse it with layer.

Notice I do not used the term stage.

[guy b.]

What it's called isn't really important to me but I'm happy to call it layer if you like. Are you happy to continue with the clear descriptions?

[Hendrik]

Interesting read, thanks Hendrik- your steps one through three are no different than the major parts of the physical fang fa I received from my first lesson by Master Wu (Wu Nan Fang Shifu) for basic standing skill (excluding a couple minor additions/variations including weight on bubbling spring, mouth closed firm (tongue slightly touch), eyes relax, etc.)

I would only criticize the way in which you said the part ' dropping sight to 60 degrees'. I believe you mean the straightening of the neck as if pulling the top of the neck (where spine meets cranium) up and back to straighten the spine- just to clarify the terminology.


Matt


Matt,

Good comments , Thanks!

The following are my response.


1, it is all about a natural position, so it is common for all internal art.

2, the key here is to expose the beginner with the minimum number of the dominate keys. so that the beginner can get into the ball park properly with ease. that is the reasons only three areas are focus at this point.

3, the dropping sight to about 60 degrees

or

look at the ground in front with the distance of one's height.
( IE a six foot person will look at the ground six to seven feet away. a five foot person will look at the ground five to six feet away.)

is to make sure the beginner does it right with ease to start with. ( that 60 degree is not fix , each individual align themself as needed to achieve a loose and with ease comfortable setting. loose, comfortable, with ease are the goal. )



most people, specially the beginner does not aware and will not be able to handle the neck , head, upper spine part of the body.

not to mention the mis handle of that part of the body will cause stress and all kind of issue even dizziness, or get the Qi stuck in the head, and mess up other parts of the body.


So, the instruction is just drop the sight to about that "60degree" reference, and find a loose, comfort, and natural position. That is a much easy, safe, and achive a good result without getting into too much details and forceful handling. and things always progress and get more and more natural. and finally, one just have to rest into nature and the physical align itself. that is the goal, let it be and it align itself without need to think.

how to get to the natural physical body state safe and with minimum consideration with ease naturally is the main consideration here. especially when no personal coaching around.

[Hendrik]

What it's called isn't really important to me but I'm happy to call it layer if you like. Are you happy to continue with the clear descriptions?


it is very important for proper naming in the begining because each naming has a meaning behind it.
otherwise at some points no one knows what others is talking about.

I am happy to share as soon as I have time.

at some point one needs some one who has experience to watch over to learn these stuffs. reading can be misleading. ask Navin who read my post for years, he will tell you his experience.

when one proceed into Physical Layer dynamic that is no easy to understand with words, not impossible, but that is not the way.

[Hendrik]

anyone who has tried these please share what is your experience and result.

can you feel what is expected? what is the different before and after you practice these..... ect.

i expect wcners to discuss their experience and the concept of levitation instead of rooting as most uses.

[imperialtaichi]

Hendrik,

Ok, lets talk physical level.

Why is the YJKYM has toes pointed in? Why does the Wudang Tai He clan adopt the same stance (pre WC)?

Do you know the relationship between YJKYM and the Yin Qiao Mai (channel) and the underlying function, the function of the Qicong Point, the biomechanical relationship between Qihai, Jianjing, Quci, Laogong, Zhongcong?

Your descrioption does NOT address the underlying principles. Since you are an engineer, even tho you may not want to overcomplicate your descriptions, I do not see your description paying attention to these fundamentals.

[imperialtaichi]

Hendrik,

Although I do not agree with, I respect your POV and methodology, and I appreciate your sharing.

But as an engineer, you must agree that a scientific model has to be tested before it can be fact.

Are you willing to put your methods to the test?

[Hendrik]

Hendrik,

Ok, lets talk physical level.

Why is the YJKYM has toes pointed in? Why does the Wudang Tai He clan adopt the same stance (pre WC)?

Do you know the relationship between YJKYM and the Yin Qiao Mai (channel) and the underlying function, the function of the Qicong Point, the biomechanical relationship between Qihai, Jianjing, Quci, Laogong, Zhongcong?

Your descrioption does NOT address the underlying principles. Since you are an engineer, even tho you may not want to overcomplicate your descriptions, I do not see your description paying attention to these fundamentals.



Great questions!

Why is YJKYM has toes pointed in " slightly"?


I cannot speak for Wudang Tai He clan because I am not a Wudang person but a decendent of Yik Kam and practice Yik Kam WCK.


So, Let's talk Yik Kam Wing Chun because Yik Kam transform is a modern presentation of Yik Kam Wing Chun 1850.

Solidly by evidence from the Yik Kam SLT Kuen Kuit of 1850 era, we know and we can trace one source of this Kuit kuit to Emei 12 Zhuang.

The attachment here is the full explaination of why is the toes pointed in " slightly", what medirians involve, and how weight distribute according to the Emei 12 Zhuang Classical writting of Song Dynasty which is more then 800 years ago. Now a part of the Lotus Cannon in Beijing Museum.

I welcome anyone who could translate this attachment so once and for all, tell the world why is it the toes pointed in "slightly" and what medirians are involved.



The person who does this explanation of Emei Classic in the attachement is GM Zhou Qian Chuan, one of the very famous Chinese Qigong master and scholar of early to mid 1900. GM Zhou was the Gate Keeper of the Emei 12 Zhuang system. the 12th Lineage Holder of Emei 12 Zhuang system.

http://www.emeiqigong.us/lineage/lineage/zhou-qian-chuan.html



Again, YIK Kam Transform is not my invention.

it is a presentation of the Yik Kam WCK 1850 as it is according to Emei 12 Zhuang Classic with modern language.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik,

Although I do not agree with, I respect your POV and methodology, and I appreciate your sharing.

But as an engineer, you must agree that a scientific model has to be tested before it can be fact.

Are you willing to put your methods to the test?



The emei 12 zhuang has been practiced and tested for at least past 800 years and today they are even in the USA.

http://www.emeiqigong.us/qigong-video.html

http://www.emeiqigong.us/lineage/lineage/fu-wei-zhong.html


The SLT Yik Kam has been there since early 1800 and atleast 200 years old now.

I am just doing a catagorization what is exist to make it easy for the 2010 people to understand.

I welcome any university take it and doing as much study as they like.


As in my post previously, my stand is, it doesnt matter if Yim Wing Chun is here, Yik Kam is here, the Top Best today's Chinese Internal martial art grand master is here, the Top Best today's chinese Qigong master is here, or the researchers in the western Unversity such as UCLA, Boston U, Penstate U. I will not change my words and open everything as it is for them to investigate.

[imperialtaichi]

Great questions!

Why is YJKYM has toes pointed in " slightly"?


I cannot speak for Wudang Tai He clan because I am not a Wudang person but a decendent of Yik Kam and practice Yik Kam WCK.


So, Let's talk Yik Kam Wing Chun because Yik Kam transform is a modern presentation of Yik Kam Wing Chun 1850.

Solidly by evidence from the Yik Kam SLT Kuen Kuit of 1850 era, we know and we can trace one source of this Kuit kuit to Emei 12 Zhuang.

The attachment here is the full explaination of why is the toes pointed in " slightly", what medirians involve, and how weight distribute according to the Emei 12 Zhuang Classical writting of Song Dynasty which is more then 800 years ago. Now a part of the Lotus Cannon in Beijing Museum.

I welcome anyone who could translate this attachment so once and for all, tell the world why is it the toes pointed in "slightly" and what medirians are involved.



The person who does this explanation of Emei Classic in the attachement is GM Zhou Qian Chuan, one of the very famous Chinese Qigong master and scholar of early to mid 1900. GM Zhou was the Gate Keeper of the Emei 12 Zhuang system. the 12th Lineage Holder of Emei 12 Zhuang system.

http://www.emeiqigong.us/lineage/lineage/zhou-qian-chuan.html



Again, YIK Kam Transform is not my invention.

it is a presentation of the Yik Kam WCK 1850 as it is according to Emei 12 Zhuang Classic with modern language.

Nope, this is NOT YJKYM. The explanation there implies the "toe in" so slight it is NOT the signature YJKYM. It talks about the difference between toes slightly in vs. toes opening outwards like a Chinese number "8".

[Hendrik]

Any one who read the above attachment of Emei 12 Zhuang classic will notice one thing.

it involve Qi medirian and Weight destribution, physical body handling.


For a layman to just figure out what is what is already difficult. not to mention to really be able to handle each of them and the inter reaction of all these stuffs.

So, after 30+ years of looking at this. I catagorized them into the 5 layers. that way one can seperate and conquer. even if one doesnt get to deep level, one will still know the big picture and not lost.

Compare with reading all kind of chinese term and theory , but can never even experience the minimum, not knowing what the heck it is about but words. That type of chinese term learning is just a waste of life. I went throught that so I know.

[Hendrik]

Nope, this is NOT YJKYM. The explanation there implies the "toe in" so slight it is NOT the signature YJKYM. It talks about the difference between toes slightly in vs. toes opening outwards like a Chinese number "8".

That is your opinion. I can accept.

However, I go by Yik Kam writting because it is Yik Kam WCK of 1850 and it is based on his writing.

[imperialtaichi]

The emei 12 zhuang has been practiced and tested for at least past 800 years and today they are even in the USA.

http://www.emeiqigong.us/qigong-video.html

http://www.emeiqigong.us/lineage/lineage/fu-wei-zhong.html


The SLT Yik Kam has been there since early 1800 and atleast 200 years old now.

I am just doing a catagorization what is exist to make it easy for the 2010 people to understand.

I welcome any university take it and doing as much study as they like.


As in my post previously, my stand is, it doesnt matter if Yim Wing Chun is here, Yik Kam is here, the Top Best today's Chinese Internal martial art grand master is here, the Top Best today's chinese Qigong master is here, or the researchers in the western Unversity such as UCLA, Boston U, Penstate U. I will not change my words and open everything as it is for them to investigate.

This is a WC forum, so why are you using someone else for your prove?

If YOU know what's going on, and you are confident and correct, would you be able to demonstrate your effectiveness, lets say, against a friendly crossing of hands?

[Hendrik]

This is a WC forum, so why are you using someone else for your prove?

If YOU know what's going on, and you are confident and correct, would you be able to demonstrate your effectiveness, lets say, against a friendly crossing of hands?




As I have mention, it is Yik Kam Transform, it is Yik Kam Wing Chun of 1850. Yik Kam Wing Chun's mother art is Emei 12 zhuang.



Has Yik Kam tested his WCK?

Yik Kam and his people the Cho family involve in the Red Boat Lee Man Mau uprising carry the banner of Wing Chun Kuen in those battle.


So, it is something has been existed and trackable since 1850 ,with its 800 years old mother art. and now reveal with modern language.


I am just someone to present it in the modern day language. it is not my invention.

As I have mention, all the information I present is open to Any University research department to do research study. It is not about me.

Anyone can test out what is the Yik Kam Transform to decide they like it or not.

[Hendrik]

IMHO

Why the toes is pointing in slightly not pointing in a lot?

because heavy pointing in toes can cause the knees in a twisted position. and that will damage the knees. and that also jamming the angkle and knees bows.

Thus, one has the toes slightly pointing but not to the degree of any twisting of the knees.
if one read the Emei 12 zhuang attachment, it clearly says pointing in slightly.


In my opinion, one needs to follow what is making sense physically.

So what is slightly means?

that might not even noticeable physically , but handling the weight such that one open up the 3 ying medirans of the leg. so that at every inhale, the 3 ying leg medirians flow from the toes toward the abdoment with ease.


And, why do I catagorize the Qi layer? because one needs to know how is the medirians flow syncronize with the breathing in that layer. how Qi flow in synch with the movement. These are not easy thing to understand without breaking up to understand and experience them part by part.

there are lots of things which needs to clearify via the ancient writting. we cannot just interprate as we like or mix up with other martial art system to make a solution.


also, can a beginner handle these stuffs?
NOPE. not beginner forsure. Dont even try to mesh around with these Qi stuffs. NEVER!

even in the Emei 12 Zhuang there are 9 training level and each level focus on different things. thus, the 5 layers catagorization is nothing new at all.

so, what can the beginner practice? just follow the loose, nature, and with ease. not trying anything violating the loose, nature , and with ease. IMHO.

[imperialtaichi]

WCK is a fighting art. That's the purpose, that's what it was desighed for. Health is an added bonus.

If YKT as you approach it is correct (I am neutral on this, I am not in a position to say it is or it is not), then whoever practice this method SHOULD also be good fighters. Then Hendrik, you should at least be a good enough fighter to cross hands with friendly challengers with different backgounds.

I do agree that people should meet Hendrik and decide for themselves, before making their minds up.

But I do advice that WCK is a practical fighting art; so one should strip away all the distractions and assess the YKT method from a practical point of view, instead of focusing on waving hands over each other for health and well-being.

A racing car is designed for racing; while it can take little old ladies to the local corner store, it is not what it is made for.

[YouKnowWho]

one should strip away all the distractions and assess the YKT method from a practical point of view, ...

Agree with you 100% there. After all, this is not a "health only" forum. we just can't talk about TCMA as "health only".

Once in a while, I tried to point this out and guide people back to the main subject, people called me trolling. :(

[Hendrik]

WCK is a fighting art. That's the purpose, that's what it was desighed for. Health is an added bonus.

If YKT as you approach it is correct (I am neutral on this, I am not in a position to say it is or it is not), then whoever practice this method SHOULD also be good fighters. Then Hendrik, you should at least be a good enough fighter to cross hands with friendly challengers with different backgounds.

I do agree that people should meet Hendrik and decide for themselves, before making their minds up.

But I do advice that WCK is a practical fighting art; so one should strip away all the distractions and assess the YKT method from a practical point of view, instead of focusing on waving hands over each other for health and well-being.

A racing car is designed for racing; while it can take little old ladies to the local corner store, it is not what it is made for.


John,

Everyone can has his opinion. and I can accept your opinion.

As for what is WCK what is Yik Kam WCK of the 1850. that is not up for you or me to define.

This thread is a thread of Yik Kam Transform. presenting Yik Kam WCK of 1850 in the present language.

if you like the YKT test it out see what it can do for you. it is always better to test the technology yourself to find out directly.

This thread is about technology and just that.

[Hendrik]

Agree with you 100% there. After all, this is not a "health only" forum. we just can't talk about TCMA as "health only".

Once in a while, I tried to point this out and guide people back to the main subject, people called me trolling. :(


Perhaps you needs to ask a question :
why cant you accept how some people such as Yik Kam in the Red boat view WCK that way in 1850?

instead of keep wanting to force your view as the truth and proper?

Remember,
Yik kam and company join the Red Boat uprising representing WCK batting their life and it is not you or me.

also, you have no idea what is YKT so how can you make a judgment on what is practical what is not?

[YouKnowWho]

This thread is about technology and just that.
In order to prove a mathematics theory, you have to prove:

1. It's true for n = 1.
2. If n is true then n + 1 is also true.

In oder to satisfy

- 1, you have to prove that you can do it.
- 2, you have to prove that you can teach someone else to do it.

You just can't state a theory without prove it first.


you have no idea what is YKT so how can you make a judgment on what is practical what is not?
It's your theory, you have to prove it, not me. You are the author and I'm just a reader.

[Hendrik]

John,

What is practical?

is teaching people how to stand in the toes in stance and screw up their knees practical?



is citing all kind of TCM Qi and medirians and pressure points theory but can not even accumulate the Qi in dan dien as basic practical?

[Hendrik]

In order to prove a mathematics theory, you have to prove:

1. It's true for n = 1.
2. If n is true then n + 1 is also true.

In oder to satisfy

- 1, you have to prove that you can do it.
- 2, you have to prove that you can teach someone else to do it.

You just can't state a theory without prove it first.


It's your theory, you have to prove it, not me. You are the author and I'm just a reader.



You know,
bring Chen Xiao Wang and or Adam Xu and Allan Lin Kuang Chen, those real TCMA pro , here and let them judge YKT. I have no problem show my cards to those real pro.

otherwise, what is the point ?

[YouKnowWho]

You know,
bring Chen Xiao Wang and or Adam Xu and Allan Lin Kuang Chen, those real TCMA pro , here and let them judge.

otherwise, what is the point ?

Again, it's your theory and you have to prove it.

[Hendrik]

To anyone doesnt like this thread,

could you please ignore this thread.

[Hendrik]

Again, it your theory and you have to prove it.



Hahaha, you are trolling. and love to troll.

[YouKnowWho]

Hahaha, you are trolling. and love to troll.
It's better

- to say what you can prove.
- not to say what you can't prove.

People do want to see some prove if you make any serious statement.

[Hendrik]

WCK is a fighting art. That's the purpose, that's what it was desighed for. Health is an added bonus.-----------------

That is not the 1850 view.

The 1850 view is WCK is a fighting art support by specific body mind development.

The ancient Chinese called fighting as yoong or applications of the art. The body mind development as tee or body of the art.

The applications of the art and the body mind development is in separable.

As Leung jan of gulau said. Power is from neigong. A big part of YKT is neigong.


If YKT as you approach it is correct (I am neutral on this, I am not in a position to say it is or it is not), then whoever practice this method SHOULD also be good fighters. -------------

Have a solid training and good fighter are different issue.

Good student from prestige engineering school is not default to be a good design engineer.



Then Hendrik, you should at least be a good enough fighter to cross hands with friendly challengers with different backgounds. -------

That is my personal private life , similar to anyone , which doesn't need to expose to the public.

In fact my late sifu Cho Hong Choi who was well known in kong sau in Penang Malaysia taught me.
Kong sau is a personal private thing, it is non of others business. You win you lost, keep you mouth shut and keep training. Your ability is not a public shows business.



I do agree that people should meet Hendrik and decide for themselves, before making their minds up. ------

I shared openly but it is up to others to take it or leave it. That is thier freedom.




But I do advice that WCK is a practical fighting art; so one should strip away all the distractions and assess the YKT method from a practical point of view, instead of focusing on waving hands over each other for health and well-being. -------

That view is not applicable to YKT.

YKT is based on Wing Chun 1850, And chinese internal martil art tradition, it balancely present the body of the art and the applications of the art in a five layers catagorization to clearly present the big picture and details.





A racing car is designed for racing; while it can take little old ladies to the local corner store, it is not what it is made for.------------


YKT is the ancient Chinese wing Chun 1850 present in modern language on build and maintain the race car engine and race with that specific type of engine. It is the Chinese Confusian tradition to practice humbleness and humanity on top of capability.

[imperialtaichi]

John,

What is practical?

is teaching people how to stand in the toes in stance and screw up their knees practical?

is citing all kind of TCM Qi and medirians and pressure points theory but can not even accumulate the Qi in dan dien as basic practical?

What I write about I can physically demonstrate. That's practical.

I openly invite people to cross hands with me (as friendly exchange). That's practical.

My YJKYM does not screw up my knees. That's practical.

I can show anyone how to use those Qi meridians and pressure points in fighting and in generating power. That's practical.

True, ocassionally I write about things beyond what I can do; I label them as "theoretical".

I wouldn't claim what I cannot do as golden truth beacuse that not practical.

If you say you know how to build a car, then you should build the car and demonstrate how powerful it is, even if it is a prototype. You can't just expect people to invest time and effort to build something with your method and see for yourself. As an engineer, you should know. But this is exactly what you are doing.

Call me practical; but I wouldn't spend money (effort) buying a car until I test drive a demo model.

All the teachers I have respect for, are the ones who had cross hands with me and demonstrated real skills. Leung Wun Zi, Wei Shu Ren, Wan Kam Leung, late WSL, TST, Tian Ke Yan, to name a few. I had also met numerous supposedly top masters whose claims are bigger than their ability.

[imperialtaichi]

Hendrik, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against your methods; as I mentioned before, it is great that you are sharing your knowledge, and that you are passionate about it. The only problem is that you are implying how good they are yet I haven't seen anyone developing great fighting skills with the YKT. After all, WCK IS a fighting art, isn't it?

[imperialtaichi]

....The 1850 view is WCK is a fighting art support by specific body mind development.

..... "Then Hendrik, you should at least be a good enough fighter to cross hands with friendly challengers with different backgounds. -------"

That is my personal private life , similar to anyone , which doesn't need to expose to the public.

Bingo. WCK IS a fighting art.

While I respect your privacy, your inaction is not helping.

[Hendrik]

What I write about I can physically demonstrate. That's practical.

I openly invite people to cross hands with me (as friendly exchange). That's practical.

My YJKYM does not screw up my knees. That's practical.

I can show anyone how to use those Qi meridians and pressure points in fighting and in generating power. That's practical.

True, ocassionally I write about things beyond what I can do; I label them as "theoretical".

I wouldn't claim what I cannot do as golden truth beacuse that not practical.

If you say you know how to build a car, then you should build the car and demonstrate how powerful it is, even if it is a prototype. You can't just expect people to invest time and effort to build something with your method and see for yourself. As an engineer, you should know. But this is exactly what you are doing.

Call me practical; but I wouldn't spend money (effort) buying a car until I test drive a demo model.

All the teachers I have respect for, are the ones who had cross hands with me and demonstrated real skills. Leung Wun Zi, Wei Shu Ren, Wan Kam Leung, late WSL, TST, Tian Ke Yan, to name a few. I had also met numerous supposedly top masters whose claims are bigger than their ability.



That is great and respectable.

[Hendrik]

Bingo. WCK IS a fighting art.

While I respect your privacy, your inaction is not helping.


I am not the indicator of YKT and don't have to.

Yik kam of red boat and the four generations of traceable Cho Family fighters in 120 years period of time have already tell thier story.

They have done thier job
and my interest is to contribute to sharing, peace , humanity , and education which is as important as if not more important then fighting in this era of peace and high tech.

There is not only one path or one way to make positive contribution to WCK in this modern high civilized era. And my path is not fighting.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik, don't get me wrong, I have nothing against your methods; as I mentioned before, it is great that you are sharing your knowledge, and that you are passionate about it. The only problem is that you are implying how good they are yet I haven't seen anyone developing great fighting skills with the YKT. After all, WCK IS a fighting art, isn't it?


John,

My suggestion is , you might want to read the thread from the begining so that you can get a better view on what I am presenting.

And also you might want to ask those who has practice it what improvement happen in thier skill.

[imperialtaichi]

And also you might want to ask those who has practice it what improvement In thier Skill they get .

Ok, you agree WCK is a fighting art in previous posts.

And I gather that you practice YKT.

......

[Hendrik]

Ok, you agree WCK is a fighting art in previous posts.

And I gather that you practice YKT.

......

You seem to missed this part from the first post.


5. The force vector, momentum types, and basic core martial application tactic characteristic layer.

This layer describes power generation, force balancing, momentum , and basic core martial application tactic characteristic for Wing Chun Kuen and the keys for handling them. Each details are defined and experienced.

For example :

the different between body type of power generation and force line type of power generation which always involve returning part of the force vector circuit. The consideration of recycle of momentum. The different between Pulse power and thrust power.

Layer 5 is the layer which makes the art a martial art while all other layer are a support to the 5th layer.

These five layers catagorization is an attemp to describe what existed in 1850 era Wing Chun Kuen in a modern day language, to aid a better understanding of the ancient art which was presented in a classical Chinese culture view. And to bring out the details involved in that era.

[Hendrik]

If you say you know how to build a car, then you should build the car and demonstrate how powerful it is, even if it is a prototype.

You can't just expect people to invest time and effort to build something with your method and see for yourself.

As an engineer, you should know. But this is exactly what you are doing. -----------


I wish i am Mr. Rock, of the fantasy island , to every visitors of the island, not only I grant them thier wish also I give them more for the peace of them and the world.

Will that happen in reality?

[imperialtaichi]

You seem to missed this part from the first post.


5. The force vector, momentum types, and basic core martial application tactic characteristic layer.

Nope. I didn't.

[Hendrik]

Nope. I didn't.

Layer 5 is the layer which makes the art a martial art while all other layer are a support to the 5th layer.

These five layers catagorization is an attemp to describe what existed in 1850 era Wing Chun Kuen in a modern day language, to aid a better understanding of the ancient art which was presented in a classical Chinese culture view. And to bring out the details involved in that era.

[imperialtaichi]

If you say you know how to build a car, then you should build the car and demonstrate how powerful it is, even if it is a prototype.

You can't just expect people to invest time and effort to build something with your method and see for yourself.

As an engineer, you should know. But this is exactly what you are doing. -----------


I wish i am Mr. Rock, of the fantasy island , to every visitors of the island, not only I grant them thier wish also I give them more for the peace of them and the world.

Will that happen in reality?

I have said what I have to say. The debate is going in a circle. Let's say, we agree to disagree. But I respect your POV.

[imperialtaichi]

It's better

- to say what you can prove.
- not to say what you can't prove.

People do want to see some prove if you make any serious statement.

YouKnowWho, you are being too practical here :)

Wouldn't the world be a better place if we can all "claim" without needing to "prove"? hahahahaha

[GlennR]

I have said what I have to say. The debate is going in a circle. Let's say, we agree to disagree. But I respect your POV.

Youre nicer than me John ;)

[imperialtaichi]

Youre nicer than me John ;)

Haha, thanks Glenn. Because chicks dig the "nice guy."

[LoneTiger108]

YouKnowWho, you are being too practical here :)

Wouldn't the world be a better place if we can all "claim" without needing to "prove"? hahahahaha

Not that I want to get invovled in your personal disagreements with Hendrik John, but I don't think it helps anyone when more senior people who post here debunk peoples 'ideas' without at least trying to understand the discussion.

Hendrik obviously is far better to understand in person, and this seems to have been proven recently through others posting very positive feedback from meeting with him. I too have had my own disagreements with him, and still do, but at least he is still trying to promote his Yik Kam teachings.

FWIW I have yet to see a clip from YOU that proves anything you have said here so far either especially with regards to being able to FIGHT lol! I too am guilty of this as are many many others here but at least I don't feel a burning desire to have to prove myself here on a forum or in my studio. Take me as I am, that's my motto!

[GlennR]

Haha, thanks Glenn. Because chicks dig the "nice guy."

Maybe thats why they avoid me!!!!

What you doing Saturday..... maybe we should finally catch up

[GlennR]

Not that I want to get invovled in your personal disagreements with Hendrik John, but I don't think it helps anyone when more senior people who post here debunk peoples 'ideas' without at least trying to understand the discussion.

What makes him more senior?


Hendrik obviously is far better to understand in person, and this seems to have been proven recently through others posting very positive feedback from meeting with him. I too have had my own disagreements with him, and still do, but at least he is still trying to promote his Yik Kam teachings.


And you dont find the way he promotes it condescending?


FWIW I have yet to see a clip from YOU that proves anything you have said here so far either especially with regards to being able to FIGHT lol! I too am guilty of this as are many many others here but at least I don't feel a burning desire to have to prove myself here on a forum or in my studio. Take me as I am, that's my motto!

He's not Robinson Crusoe there ;)

[imperialtaichi]

Not that I want to get invovled in your personal disagreements with Hendrik John, but I don't think it helps anyone when more senior people who post here debunk peoples 'ideas' without at least trying to understand the discussion.

Hendrik obviously is far better to understand in person, and this seems to have been proven recently through others posting very positive feedback from meeting with him. I too have had my own disagreements with him, and still do, but at least he is still trying to promote his Yik Kam teachings.

FWIW I have yet to see a clip from YOU that proves anything you have said here so far either especially with regards to being able to FIGHT lol! I too am guilty of this as are many many others here but at least I don't feel a burning desire to have to prove myself here on a forum or in my studio. Take me as I am, that's my motto!

True, most of my demos (and I have plenty of those) are just that, demos. But at least, I DEMO. And as I say, I am willing to cross hands with people who wants to test my methods. I'll be more than happy to post every video clip on this forum (but then I'll be boring the he11 out of everyone.:o ). If anyone wants to see what I do, look up user "kulokungfu" and I'm there.

I am not here to debunk anyone. I see Hendrik as a friend and I try my best to be polite, and even suggesting people to meet with Hendrik to investigate. If only I'm not so far away, I too would love to pay Hendrik a visit (and go Yum Cha. Hendrik seems like an interesting guy to have a conversation with).

It would help Hendrik tremendously in promoting his YKT if he too, can demo some practical stuff on video. Wouldn't you agree?

You see, the problem is, WCK these days is becoming a spectator sport; everyone has something to say, but few are willing to put it to the test. If the WC community lose sight of "practicality", it will just become a "theoretical" and "philosophical" game with battles fought over words.

Not everyone wants to fight, or compete, and I respect that. But I urge everyone, PLEASE don't turn WCK into an armchair sport and become the laughing stock of the MA community.

[imperialtaichi]

Maybe thats why they avoid me!!!!

What you doing Saturday..... maybe we should finally catch up

Not working this Saturday, have other commitments in the morning, may be in the afternoon?

Lets not hijack Hendrik's thread. PM me.

[LoneTiger108]

What makes him more senior?

Just a slip of the typing, nothing meant by it. But saying that I guess Hendrik may be an older student of Wing Chun than John but that's just a guess...


And you dont find the way he promotes it condescending?

I used to yes, but that's just the way Hednrik writes and I too am guilty (again!) of sometimes doing that like everyone else here :o


You see, the problem is, WCK these days is becoming a spectator sport; everyone has something to say, but few are willing to put it to the test. If the WC community lose sight of "practicality", it will just become a "theoretical" and "philosophical" game with battles fought over words.

I disagree. This actually happended 2-3 decades ago when Wing Chun, a complete Chinese Martial Art, was turned into a sansau based 'scientific' kung fu style! Saying that, passed generations at least fought I guess, but the overall basic standard of the fighters was much less then too I suppose so Wing Chun stood its ground. Not so easy these days.

What I believe is wrong with our community is that is IS NOT a community!! Without world wide participation in standardizing what Wing Chun is or isn't we will always have people that can and will take the pi$$ and teach Wing Chun with very little knowledge that has been gained unscupuously from shady teaching, on sites like Youtube or a brief seminar here or there.

And this is only evident when you are in the same room as eachother, as we all know the mirror of Wing Chun can be shattered in many cases when true common sense prevails! ;)

[GlennR]

Just a slip of the typing, nothing meant by it. But saying that I guess Hendrik may be an older student of Wing Chun than John but that's just a guess...


In regards to WC i believe he is, but John has a very stong/long TC background of which they were debating .... amongst other things



I used to yes, but that's just the way Hednrik writes and I too am guilty (again!) of sometimes doing that like everyone else here :o

Fair enough, that we all look down our noses from time to time, but i think in Hendriks case it is more than just the way he writes



I disagree. This actually happended 2-3 decades ago when Wing Chun, a complete Chinese Martial Art, was turned into a sansau based 'scientific' kung fu style! Saying that, passed generations at least fought I guess, but the overall basic standard of the fighters was much less then too I suppose so Wing Chun stood its ground. Not so easy these days.

Great comment about the level of fighters compared to say 30 years ago, on general they are better


What I believe is wrong with our community is that is IS NOT a community!! Without world wide participation in standardizing what Wing Chun is or isn't we will always have people that can and will take the pi$$ and teach Wing Chun with very little knowledge that has been gained unscupuously from shady teaching, on sites like Youtube or a brief seminar here or there.


I dont see how a standardized approach will help. Get 3 boxers and they will all have their take on a left hook... its the variety and different approach that makes it rich within the same style. For eg, I see WSL as opposed to TST WC and what i see is two different takes on the same style... i like that.


And this is only evident when you are in the same room as eachother, as we all know the mirror of Wing Chun can be shattered in many cases when true common sense prevails! ;)

Ive trained with heaps of different lineages and on the whole its a slight difference in emphasis that differentiates them. Im yet to see any broken mirrors except in a few cases where the teacher was a fraud

[GlennR]

Not working this Saturday, have other commitments in the morning, may be in the afternoon?

Lets not hijack Hendrik's thread. PM me.

Call you tomorrow

[imperialtaichi]

J
I disagree. This actually happended 2-3 decades ago when Wing Chun, a complete Chinese Martial Art, was turned into a sansau based 'scientific' kung fu style!

Whoops, Dr. Leung Jaan introduced the Sansik/Sansau back in the 1800's. I believe it's in you lineage too, right? And it was very scientific!

If you want to discuss this, start another thread. Let's not derail Hendrik's thread.

[imperialtaichi]

Call you tomorrow

looking forward to it!

[LoneTiger108]

Whoops, Dr. Leung Jaan introduced the Sansik/Sansau back in the 1800's. I believe it's in you lineage too, right? And it was very scientific!

If you want to discuss this, start another thread. Let's not derail Hendrik's thread.

Not that I want to get into it here but I will say this... Far too much is emphasis is put on Leung Jans 'Kulo period' which was at the end of his martial art life, his retirement methods so to speak. It should be understood that he did not teach his 12 hands throughout, just at the end, so it shouldn't be concentrated on so much IMHO unless you just want a 'quick fix'. Great for that, not so great for getting a complete picture of Wing Chun like Ip Mans curriculums IMHO.

And yes, some in the Lee family have these methods but they too are far older (from an earlier generation) than the current trends, and so are different again.

[Jox]

Hendrik,

Ok, lets talk physical level.

Why is the YJKYM has toes pointed in? Why does the Wudang Tai He clan adopt the same stance (pre WC)?

Do you know the relationship between YJKYM and the Yin Qiao Mai (channel) and the underlying function, the function of the Qicong Point, the biomechanical relationship between Qihai, Jianjing, Quci, Laogong, Zhongcong?


Would you like to explain this?
Any link?

Jox, ;)

[Hendrik]

I have said what I have to say. The debate is going in a circle. Let's say, we agree to disagree. But I respect your POV.

Great! Thanks!

[Hendrik]

I have said what I have to say. The debate is going in a circle. Let's say, we agree to disagree. But I respect your POV.

I never like to debate .

i am just presenting what is a facts. a fact is better then all the debate. It is always up for people to see what I have present . See it or not that is their freedom.

[imperialtaichi]

Great! Thanks!

Hendrik, you are a gentleman. Though we may not agree on what is "fact", you have made a friend in Sydney.

[Hendrik]

I disagree. This actually happended 2-3 decades ago when Wing Chun, a complete Chinese Martial Art, was turned into a sansau based 'scientific' kung fu style! Saying that, passed generations at least fought I guess, but the overall basic standard of the fighters was much less then too I suppose so Wing Chun stood its ground. Not so easy these days. ------------


Spencer,

IMHO,
Unless one has the WCK shock pulse power one really doesn't have WCK.

[Hendrik]

Hendrik, you are a gentleman. Though we may not agree on what is "fact", you have made a friend in Sydney.

John,

Thanks.

If you don't understand me, that doesn't make you an enermy.

There is a data point here you might want to check.
Matt here know the very basic of YKT is similar to Wu Shrfu's Art . You might want to check what is Wu Shrfu's art .

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1173523&postcount=150

http://shaolinwugulun.wordpress.com/master-wu-nanfang-2/

And if YKT very basic is similar to Wu ShrFu arts basic, what is the mean in term of the class of the art.

[LoneTiger108]

Spencer,

IMHO,
Unless one has the WCK shock pulse power one really doesn't have WCK.

I agree Hendrik, but you also need more than just a shock pulse signature to be a rounded representation of Wing Chun. So much more IMHO.

[Hendrik]

I agree Hendrik, but you also need more than just a shock pulse signature to be a rounded representation of Wing Chun. So much more IMHO.

Well, a BMW with a different type of engine is not a BMW . Disregard of how it races.

[Ali. R]

Well, a BMW with a different type of engine is not a BMW . Disregard of how it races.

Which means; sometimes we could teach an old dog a new trick. Same engine but different body/different engine same body………

Take care,

[LoneTiger108]

Well, a BMW with a different type of engine is not a BMW . Disregard of how it races.

I see your point but I aint a car dude! I know that's hard to understand, but I aint a car and neither is Wing Chun. This 'engine' you are talking of that represents us is not the ONLY engine either. It's Yik Kams engine so it should be easy to 'show' if it still exists using Wing Chun methods rather than Hsing Yi or Bagua masters demonstrating something else.

So Yik Kam is a BMW. Ip Man is a Rolls Royce? ;)

[Hendrik]

I see your point but I aint a car dude! I know that's hard to understand, but I aint a car and neither is Wing Chun. This 'engine' you are talking of that represents us is not the ONLY engine either. It's Yik Kams engine so it should be easy to 'show' if it still exists using Wing Chun methods rather than Hsing Yi or Bagua masters demonstrating something else.

So Yik Kam is a BMW. Ip Man is a Rolls Royce? ;)

You know.
If the Lee Shing family still doing WCK reserch On visiting different lineage.

May be now it is a good time the family zoom in to YKT.

[Hendrik]

YKT is an educational process of trackable wing Chun 1850 in today's language.

Not a business money making or ego boosting makerting product.

An information make public to share to preserve a part of wing Chun 1850 And Benifit people .

Since it is an educational process. It takes the University approach, anyone can study, investigate and master it with a clear standard and expectation.

[Ali. R]

Hendirk

There’s nothing wrong with what you’re presenting, nothing at all. But everything I’ve said is tractable within a University approach as well.

And if one combined what we’re saying together in the sense of University approach, because that’s where I learned it, most would come to the same conclusion (Same thing but different method); like you said,


Well, a BMW with a different type of engine is not a BMW . Disregard of how it races.

[Hendrik]

Hendirk

There’s nothing wrong with what you’re presenting, nothing at all. But everything I’ve said is tractable within a University approach as well.

And if one combined what we’re saying together in the sense of University approach, because that’s where I learned it, most would come to the same conclusion; like you said,

Ali,

You are free to have your ideas.

[Ali. R]

Ali,

You are free to have your ideas.

I wish they were my ideas and then I’ll write a book; but they’re not. And I feel the same way in what you’re presenting; but it’s nothing wrong with that.

[Robinhood]

It looks like this is just going around and around about how he is just describing "internal" kung fu, it can be any style.



Cheers

[Hendrik]

It looks like this is just going around and around about how he is just describing "internal" kung fu, it can be any style.



Cheers


Chinese Internal Martial arts has the general and particular keys elements.

The general keys elements is similar to the three basic of the physical layers.

The particular keys elements is such as is the weight is at the bubble spring area, the yang side, or the heel ect.

Every internal martial art has a uniqueness. Thus, they are different.

Every chinese internal art has to develop the body of the art first , and then using the develop body of the art to support the applications or martial applications.

Also, going direct to study some fix applications examples is called dead art in ancient china. These type of art doesn't not represent internal Chinese martial art, but a quick solution in the ancient china. That is to prepar the common people to guard thier village or tribe under urgent needs. That is a different deal compare to the professional martial art learning which goes for well rounded in depth development such as the Chen tai ji family.

One has to be clear on these facts.


YKT follows this tradition since it is a part of the Chinese internal art of 1850.

Thus, the first four layers of the 5 layers is for developing the body of the art.
The fifth layer is the application of the art. And each layer has both the general and particular keys elements.

As another example, with in the physical layer , after the six bow is activated, the physical layer snake engine is then activated in sequence.


For traditional Chinese internal art such as wing Chun 1850, unless one is clear in a certain degree on the body of the art, it's strength and weakness, jumping into the applications is impractical for a full rounded ancient internal art development.



Again, as said above,

it is also a common practice in china to train the common people a certain fix fighting applications to such as the common villagers for the purpose of guarding their village at emergency , or such as the followers of a group in the uprising.

This type of practice is a different type compare with the professional internal martial art development.

[Ali. R]

One thing I can say is; Hendrik isn’t one to let facts get in the way of a good Narrative.

[guy b.]

can we get on to describing the next layer/stage or whatever please?

[Ali. R]

can we get on to describing the next layer/stage or whatever please?

Well, could you explain the first one to us all, please?

Ready for stage TWO:confused:

[Hendrik]

can we get on to describing the next layer/stage or whatever please?

Have you practice the three keys?

[guy b.]

Have you practice the three keys?

I followed what you wrote after I asked for a clear description. I believe you referred to it as the most basic of the basic. Can we go on to the next bit now please?

[Hendrik]

I followed what you wrote after I asked for a clear description. I believe you referred to it as the most basic of the basic. Can we go on to the next bit now please?

Have you practice them?

There is no point to get more until you can handle the basic three keys with ease. You need to digest them to know what they are. Real kung fu development cannot jump step.

[guy b.]

I believe I can handle them with ease

[Hendrik]

I believe I can handle them with ease

Please share your current condition . What is the different compare now with before you do the three keys?

Are you a wcner? if so, How long have you study WCK?

[guy b.]

Please share your current condition . What is the different compare now with before you do the three keys?

Are you a wcner? if so, How long have you study WCK?

I've done this kind of postural work before. The effect is to feel light yet alive and not easily moveable. Springiness is encouraged in the major joints of the body but not tight springiness, they feel open. The abdominal breathing activates nerve connections and makes the torso feel relaxed yet linked and fluid with a focus on the centre of gravity. Focusing on the breath can intensify the feeling of the body as an integrated unit and also gives pleasurable feelings probably related to hormone release.

[Jox]

I've done this kind of postural work before. The effect is to feel light yet alive and not easily moveable. Springiness is encouraged in the major joints of the body but not tight springiness, they feel open. The abdominal breathing activates nerve connections and makes the torso feel relaxed yet linked and fluid with a focus on the centre of gravity. Focusing on the breath can intensify the feeling of the body as an integrated unit and also gives pleasurable feelings probably related to hormone release.

I experimented with 3 keys..., got the same result... ;)


Jox, :)

[Hendrik]

I've done this kind of postural work before. The effect is to feel light yet alive and not easily moveable. Springiness is encouraged in the major joints of the body but not tight springiness, they feel open. The abdominal breathing activates nerve connections and makes the torso feel relaxed yet linked and fluid with a focus on the centre of gravity. Focusing on the breath can intensify the feeling of the body as an integrated unit and also gives pleasurable feelings probably related to hormone release.

Ok. Just do the three keys. Loosen the body , feel relax, And nothing else. Don't think don't care for any sensation .

Absolute nothing else.


Stand there with only very light awareness on your lower abs. Just aware of thar part of the body and absolutely do Nothing else.

See if you can stand there for 7 mins or so. And let me know.

Make sure when you finished standing your awareness is in your lower abs and massage your head , body, slowly move your limbs a little before Walk away. Absolutely no suddent action!

Eyes be naturally relax with eyes lid drop. but not close.

Any noticeable feeling , sensation , thoughts, movement of violating, loose, nature, and quiet or peacefull . Stop the practice right the way. Make sure aways aware of your lower abs when you stop or end practice.

[Hendrik]

I experimented with 3 keys..., got the same result... ;)


Jox, :)

Ok. Do as I post above.

And describe your condition after that.

Make loose, natural, quite the only and only guide line. Loose, natural, quite over write anything. Never do anything violate them even if it is extremely minor.

But of cause, just try your best because every practice is a relative and one does progress to be better and better.

You need to tell me everything since I am not there with you. I need all information and detail to know what happen and what next.

[YouKnowWho]

Ok. Just do the three keys. Loosen the body , feel relax, And nothing else. Don't think don't care for any sensation .

Absolute nothing else.


Stand there with only very light awareness on your lower abs. Just aware of thar part of the body and absolutely do Nothing else.

See if you can stand there for 7 mins or so. And let me know.

Make sure when you finished standing your awareness is in your lower abs and massage your head , body, slowly move your limbs a little before Walk away. Absolutely no suddent action!

Eyes be naturally relax with eyes lid drop. but not close.

Any noticeable feeling , sensation , thoughts, movement of violating, loose, nature, and quiet or peacefull . Stop the practice right the way. Make sure aways aware of your lower abs when you stop or end practice.

Is "punching harder" your goal or something else? Can you point out at least one clip similiar to the following clips "by using your method"? I prefer to see Fajin on the heavy bag, but at least Fajin into the thin air is still better than nothing at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePEsgnTMd1c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_vcWq2GYXs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA9a977HzFg&feature=related

[Hendrik]

Jox and Guy,

If you both are serious for next step, please get a YouTube of you guys on the three keys handling . That way i can have a better idea where you guys are to give feedback.

[guy b.]

Hendrick, I'm not posting clips of myself on a public forum or on youtube. I value my privacy too much for that.

This is also a slightly hysterical request when all I am doing is standing and relaxing. Are you trying to avoid having to run through the details of your layers? We aren't even on the first yet are we..

[Hendrik]

those who is interested.

Coaching openly in this forum doesn't seem to work.

I think the way to go is to find a coach . That is better. That way you can have a personal coaching learning and get result on your own pace.


Yesterday, i was thinking if everyone who is interested can openly working together with two way communication; If you put the effort and show me your practice, i can chek it and comment, and give further advise based on the condition; since eveyone is different, I need to look for details to help. To make sure your investment in the practice has the best return.

If that is the way, i don't mind to spend my personal time helping, And we can make sure every one get as much result as possible allowed by the forum communication boundary or limit.

But now I think it doesn't work that way. So, here on. Please find your personal coach and trust him to coach you if you are serious . otherwise, don't waste your time on YKT .

Best regards.

[Hendrik]

Is "punching harder" your goal or something else? Can you point out at least one clip similiar to the following clips "by using your method"? I prefer to see Fajin on the heavy bag, but at least Fajin into the thin air is still better than nothing at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePEsgnTMd1c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_vcWq2GYXs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA9a977HzFg&feature=related




I am putting down deep foundation , because high building needs good foundation with details.

Forget about fajin if one cannot even identify one's natural state and handling details in static.

The physical layer has both static and dynamic state transform. Those are foundations. And one needs to build them carefully step by step.


Well, I change my mind now and advise any one Who is seriously want to learn to get a personal coach. That is a better way.

[Hendrik]

Hendrick, I'm not posting clips of myself on a public forum or on youtube. I value my privacy too much for that.

This is also a slightly hysterical request when all I am doing is standing and relaxing. Are you trying to avoid having to run through the details of your layers? We aren't even on the first yet are we..

1。　understood your concern.

2. I still stand that way 75 mins every day.

3. Detail of the layers has been posted in my previous posts in this thread. So there is no issue on trying to avoid anything.

4. Get your personal coach so they can coach you at your pace.

[Jox]

Jox and Guy,

If you both are serious for next step, please get a YouTube of you guys on the three keys handling . That way i can have a better idea where you guys are to give feedback.

Hi Hendrik
I dont like YT idea... I think, better and faster method is Skype.
If you like it, I am here... :) I would post the results of the process with gladness... ;)


Jox, :)

[YouKnowWho]

Forget about fajin ...
How can you forget about Fajin? I thought this entire thread is talking about power generation? :confused:


This layer describes power generation, ...

[sanjuro_ronin]

I love this thread !
It is SO symbolic of KFO in its current state !
*shoots himself in head*

[k gledhill]

I love this thread !
It is SO symbolic of KFO in its current state !
*shoots himself in head*

looks for the 'like' button......;)

[Jox]

looks for the 'like' button......;)

We should move to FB... ;)

[Hendrik]

How can you forget about Fajin? I thought this entire thread is talking about power generation? :confused:

How can one fajin before one knows ones body, develop the foundation, and what is Jin ?

[Robinhood]

I think he wants see what kind of fa-jin you are trying to develop.

I think you put up some clips awhile ago, maybe one of those.




Cheers

[Hendrik]

Some more about YKT

1. Basic Physical layer development.

A, Static state development, standing with the three keys to observe and get use to the static natural physical condition or state. why 7 mins ? Because it generally take that long to do a slt form or the first part of yik kam slt. 7 mins is a minimum preparation for that. One needs to be in natural condition while doing slt form.

B, Dynamic state development , activate the six bows, observe and get use to the dynamic natural physical condition or state. Activate snake engine, observe and get use to deeper dynamic natural physical condition or state.

C, using the developent and transform of the body from the above pratice slt. Let the insight and soul of slt surface by itself. Only after this attainment one is consider to have enter the door of knowing slt by Yik Kam standard.


The above steps is similar to cooking every step and sequence needs to be fully handle before proceed to the next step. Impatient and jumping step ruin the dish.



2. There is no instruction on where to place weight comes with the basic three keys.
That is because how and where to place weight is depend on what one wants to do.

Weight handling depend on which medirians one wants to activate , breathing type and cycle, force vector and momentum handling such as bouncing or absorb incoming force...etc.

Those stuffs is better to deal with at the study of different layer handling. Not to mention beginner has no awareness or handling , any forcefull control action taken is only going to cause tensing and stuckness with violate loose, nature, and quite.

In physical layer, one handle the three keys and let what ever it is comes naturally. No mention of toes point in...etc because those stuffs do more harm to beginner then good. The bottom line is let go and settle into the natural instead of man made control.


3. Do I concern on releasing information and details? I love to release detals, i am more concern in if people wiling to put in the effort and can really master the handling, then bring the details into coffin with me. There is no secret, any one with the same level of Kung fu will know them.

At mastering, one doesn't have to remember any detials and can get as much details as needed. One doesnt need to think. Just enter into different layer and read out what is there after one develop the transform on ones body mind. It is similar to open up the particular layers file and read it. you read yourself and you read your opponents. Because you can use you body mind to emulate your opponent as soon as your Kung fu is equal or higher then him.


4. Do I concern about fighting or martial applications? Sure, however IMHO, if one has no ability to sustain a force from about 2x ones body weight , deliver a force can penetrate double ones body thickness, dealing with momentum faster then one very own....ect. Well, one can bully the weaker and smaller or those who don't know your tricks before the tricks run out, but one cannot defend to get bully the bigger guy or the train guy.. Thus, i prefer to follow the tradition way of develop the body and application of the art balancely. And what good is to get there before develop the basic foundation. Not to mention, who win in a fighting varies everyday when you meet those who is train and well rounded, disregard of their style.

Talking fighting doesn't guarantee to know how to fight, even doing good in fighting at one gym doesnt guarantee to win in another. One needs to have a balance training and real life experience. And I don't believe in parade ones power or weapons. IMHO.