Martial Spirit

[-N-]

You have two months to teach a person martial spirit.

What do you teach, and how?

[bawang]

do squats

nbmbmnb

[Tao Of The Fist]

Teach a few basic techniques, then throw them in a pit of angry women with various household items. Repeat till they can effectively use them.

[donjitsu2]

do squats

nbmbmnb


nah...I say burpees, sparring, and heavybag work.

Now, when I say "sparring" I don't mean the typical stuff.

Since I only have two months I feel like things should be much more aggressive. ANNNND, since things will be much more aggressive I don't want this student to get injured too much so I feel like protective equipment is going to be a key player.

So, I'd suggest fighting in head cages/shin guards/cup/mma gloves, Full Contact, training multiple scenarios: 1 on 1, 2 on 1, "surprise" attack, fighting a group, weapons, etc...

The idea would be to really push the trainee to a mindset of pure aggression. Working on "technique" would be a waste of those two months. The trainee would be much better off learning to embrace their "animal instincts"


Train Hard,
Josh Skinner

[David Jamieson]

spar with them.

[Lucas]

is this someone completely new to martial arts/fighting?

[Golden Arms]

You have two months to teach a person martial spirit.

What do you teach, and how?

I have done it before, although 2 months can be cutting it pretty close, it can be done fairly well in 3. I will keep the specifics for my own crew, but you must make them experience first hand what it is like to be behind the curve and have things not going their way, then teach them to fight their way back to at least neutral ground. Generally we would start with a group of over 20 and end up with 3 or so that make it through the training, it is certainly not for everyone.

[MightyB]

You have two months to teach a person martial spirit.

What do you teach, and how?

By displaying it yourself - 60% of the time, this works all the time.

Seriously - be the guy you want your guys to be. They'll emulate and mirror you.

[Michael Dasargo]

Lesson 1:
Resiliency under violence is an individual and subjective trait shaped by genetic pre-disposition to stress and history of physicality.

Lesson 2:
Your ability to use what you learn in the next two months will be determined by the effort you put in and limited by the resources you have available. BTW, desire dissolves all limits.

Curriculum
-physiology of human performance in combat
-concepts of striking, footwork, and defense.
-flinch-startle conversion for counter ambush
-3 way "push away danger" blocking
-cover defense and taking back initiative
-soft tissue targeting vs. hard targets
-4 basic punches (jab, reverse, hook, uppercut)
-basic clinches
-counter-clinch throws
-kicking vs. footwork

*progressive contact, intensity, and micro-fight simulations.

Mike D.

[-N-]

Cool feedback, everybody.

A little more detail on the random question which had come up this past weekend:

The person is not a fighter, and will not be fighting.

He has 2 months or less to learn what he can so he can use it in facing whatever challenges come his way.

He is not a tea master and will not be meeting a samurai.

This was not an interview question(that I know of) at Google.

You can use whatever definition of martial spirit you prefer.

[Scott R. Brown]

Teach them combat shooting. They will improve faster and become more skilled in 2 months than any other martial art system.

[Golden Arms]

Cool feedback, everybody.

A little more detail on the random question which had come up this past weekend:

The person is not a fighter, and will not be fighting.

He has 2 months or less to learn what he can so he can use it in facing whatever challenges come his way.

He is not a tea master and will not be meeting a samurai.

This was not an interview question(that I know of) at Google.

You can use whatever definition of martial spirit you prefer.
See the military training methods of any country that aspires to be a military world power, how the US Marines mold new recruits would be a great start. They have dumped more time and research into this type of problem than anyone else in recent history.

[bawang]

seriously speaking, if someone doesnt want to fight or train persistently, but wants to develop warrior spirit in two months, i would ask for 200 dollars up front and promise to teach it to them.

this is rice bowl scenario 101

[Drake]

You have two months to teach a person martial spirit.

What do you teach, and how?


Hope you have 18+ hours a day, a signed consent form, strictly controlled living conditions, and someone who has no pride. It'll be enough to get them started in starting.

Otherwise, Bawang is straight on... this sounds like Poppy**** with a capital C.


Still... in two months, you'll likely have warm garbage instead of cold garbage.

[SPJ]

You have two months to teach a person martial spirit.

What do you teach, and how?

3 things:

1. Eating bitterness. Perseverance and diligence. The will power or determination.

Pick up a physical activity and do it every day. Throwing darts/spear/pebbles, running, swimming, --- just pick one and stick with it rain or shine.

a Sun Zi: he would take a cold shower at day break or the first chicken shouting.

He did that thruout his life since young boy.

b Yue King: he would taste liver and sleep on firewoods to remind himself to avenge his people and reestablish his kingdom.

2. Calculation. Collect all intel and calculate. Collect more intel and calculate again.

Kong Ming and Sun Zi were both good at planning. You have plan A, plan B, plan C ---

But at first, collect intel and update intel all the time. Knowing your enemy is to defeat him. Knowing your opponent and yourself. We may plan to fight at our advantage and win every time or 100 fights.

3. Team work. You need a group of people to fight in a war.

Design a task or challenge to make your students to work together and not alone.

:cool:

[-N-]

Cool feedback, everybody.

A little more detail on the random question which had come up this past weekend:


Do you value martial spirit outside the specific context of martial conflict and fighting?

If so, how would you help another person gain and apply that value in a non-martial training context?

Fighting can be taught without forms.

Can spirit be taught without fighting?

Death dealing blade becomes the life giving sword.

Sword becomes no-sword.

How?

[Lucas]

you can definately apply the martial fight spirit in non fighting. if you take modern business for instance:

you must be direct, effecient and ruthless with your adversaries, and you should attack with a ferocity that will be remembered so that your enemies at the very least will respect you. you will want to foster dedication and that same respect within your team. to do so you must conduct yourself honorably and consistantly before your peers and subordinates. you must make your enemies fear your power, and your allies should look to your strength for safety and succor.

i have met more than one person with the heart and spirit of a warrior that has never fought martially.

[Lee Chiang Po]

You can't teach martial spirit. You can teach a person all the right moves, but you can not shape his mind that he would use these moves.
It is like a litter of puppies. You will find them to have very different personalities. There will be the wimpy pup or pups, and there will be the dominant one that whips all their a$$es. He is the one that has martial spirit, and it is not present in the others.
I taught combat jiujitsu in the military. Even made up a little training manual so that others could teach the same. In only 2 months you can teach a hand full of technique or moves that work most of the time. Stuff that usually works well with less possibility of it failing. It has altered the personality of many a young serviceman. It shakes awake something inside them once they felt dangerous, and so they became so. But as for teaching martial spirit, I don't see you doing that in a few years, let alone 2 months. Maybe he will have it and just turn it loose once he feels confident. You can awaken the killer instinct, but you can not transplant it.

[pazman]

I would run them through my 2 month apprenticeship program.

The details are secret, but I will say it involves wearing silk pajamas and opening up their microcosmic orbit. The 2 months will conclude in a baisi ceremony, which basically makes them Chinese.

$1000, up front, bring me my rice bowl white boy.:cool:

[-N-]

seriously speaking, if someone doesnt want to fight or train persistently, but wants to develop warrior spirit in two months, i would ask for 200 dollars up front and promise to teach it to them.

this is rice bowl scenario 101

Ok, I will do that.

From boxing, came mind boxing. From mind boxing, came spirit boxing.

Spirit leads Yi, which leads Qi, which leads Li.

You are all founding ancestors of the lineage.

Our poem of principles starts as follows:

"The 3 levels integration of Dasargo are most profound."
"The spirit transfer mirror of MightyB is serious."
"Tao Of The Fist overcomes the fiercest women."

Post in this thread to become a founding ancestor.

Add your supreme skill to the poem.

Send me $500.

Thank you.

[David Jamieson]

1.Do you value martial spirit outside the specific context of martial conflict and fighting?

2.If so, how would you help another person gain and apply that value in a non-martial training context?

3.Fighting can be taught without forms.

4.Can spirit be taught without fighting?

5.Death dealing blade becomes the life giving sword.

6.Sword becomes no-sword.

7.How?

1. yes
2. you can't in my experience, it comes from experience.
3. Of course, there is no denying that.
4. Yes, but not fighting spirit.
5. A sword is always both life giving and death dealing by virtue of it being a sword.
6. There is no dust and we are not mirrors. Avoid fortune cookie platitudes. :)
7. Work. Begin and continue.

[KwaiChangCaine]

What specifically are you referring to? I know what I'm defining it as not sure it's the same as yours.

[-N-]

What specifically are you referring to? I know what I'm defining it as not sure it's the same as yours.

I'm referring to whatever definition people care to use.


You can use whatever definition of martial spirit you prefer.

I'm not asking for myself.

I'm just asking because I'd thought we'd get some interesting posts.

[-N-]

Teach a few basic techniques, then throw them in a pit of angry women with various household items. Repeat till they can effectively use them.

"Repeat till they can effectively use them."

The students and the techniques?

The women and the household items?

The students and the women? :)

The women and the students? :eek:

[KwaiChangCaine]

A combination of bravery, skill, confidence and maybe compassion?

[-N-]

A combination of bravery, skill, confidence and maybe compassion?

Sure, that can work.

So for your definition, how would you teach your student to get improvement in those areas in two months time?

[SPJ]

me think

1. diligence or persistence

2. planning: calculate all risks. collect more intel and calculate again. fight with your brain and use your strength and strike when the opponent is least prepared and where the opponent is least guarded---

3. teamwork

three spirits to cultivate

there are more in sun zi.

:)

[bawang]

Fighting can be taught without forms.

Can spirit be taught without fighting?



fighting cannot be taught without fighting.

spirit cannot be taught without spirit.


*rubs testicles

[Tao Of The Fist]

"Repeat till they can effectively use them."

The students and the techniques?

The women and the household items?

The students and the women? :)

The women and the students? :eek:


This will be called the 'Handling Women, Handling Life Song'.

"The man who uses his fist to handle his women is an abuser, but the man who uses his words to win can defeat gods and dragons. Unless she can fight, then by all means kick her ass."

[Hendrik]

Do you value martial spirit outside the specific context of martial conflict and fighting?

If so, how would you help another person gain and apply that value in a non-martial training context?

Fighting can be taught without forms.

Can spirit be taught without fighting?

Death dealing blade becomes the life giving sword.

Sword becomes no-sword.

How?


The varja sutra said it all.

Forget about oneself will do it.
But most are unwilling. And those who is willing needs to develop samadhi power.

[Tao Of The Fist]

On a serious note,

I don't see why you cant practice some very basic techniques and ideas, continue practicing with several (semi) non-compliant partners until you have a decent grasp and can perform it in a spontaneous situation.

Like the teacher that almost tries to kill you just to make sure his teachings sunk in.

Then learn some more ideas, rinse and repeat.

As for martial spirit, I dont think it exists outside of life and death experiences, so giving the student the feeling that he needs to react or else he could be in danger might be a way to bring out 'martial spirit.'

I don't practice martial arts for as much as I should for martial purposes, but my definition of martial spirit is having the physical, emotional, and spiritual drive to do what is necessary to preserve your life.

[m1k3]

Someone said it earlier but I'll repeat it.

Marine Corps Boot Camp.

http://www.oo-rah.com/store/gifs/seastories/ssimg40.gif

[pazman]

Someone said it earlier but I'll repeat it.

Marine Corps Boot Camp.



Dehumanizing is an important effort in proper Chinese wude.

[Michael Dasargo]

Martial Spirit is the spirit of finding solutions during hostile and stressful environments.

Fighting spirit is the relentless stubbornness to win.

If the guy is a granola, push hands can introduce him to the idea of balancing cognition with intuitive solutions while letting go of the constructs of success and failure.

titty sprinkles,
Mike D.

[Scott R. Brown]

titty sprinkles

We have come to expect illustrative photos accompanying such comments!

[Michael Dasargo]

http://www.lolhome.com/img_big/titty-sprinkles.jpg

[Scott R. Brown]

Well! That was underwhelming!!:(:p

[Michael Dasargo]

when he's motorboating?
http://i.imgur.com/HTSjH.jpg

[Scott R. Brown]

Uh........what was I saying??

[Lucas]

when he's motorboating?


Its funny that you mention that because I met morgan freeman 15 years ago in trinidad. he regularly vacations there to get time away from his family...so i can tell you what he sounds like while motor boating :P it sounds like 'puff puff, cough cough, pass...'

[Hebrew Hammer]

I think you lads are confusing Martial Prowess with Martial Spirit! Spirit is a concept, a mind set, not a skill and this is taught through a combination of education and experience. No one is just born with martial spirit...although some of us are certainly born more aggressive than others.

A foundation of military classics in reading is certainly a good start: The Art of War, The book of 5 Rings, Musashi, War as I knew it, The Desert Fox,The Rogue Warrior guide to strategy and leadership (my personal favorite), etc...you could also add biographies of great warriors throughout history.

There are tons of cheesy films to choose from: Rudy, Karate Kid, Gladiator, Braveheart, Twilight Samurai, The 300, Shaw Bros films, etc...

Then the application of Martial Spirit: Competitive training in a fun setting like paint ball, contact sports Rugby, Football, etc. Mix in challenging physical training...pushing the student past the comfort zone, obstacle courses, mud runs, bag work and add some sparring, weapons training...either modern or older. I think a great place to start might be Krav Maga classes.

The key is to get the person thinking, acting in ways to succeed, in a physical or martial way. Learn from there experiences...build confidence and review past failures...you will never learn more than you can from failure.

I rest my case.

[Tao Of The Fist]

http://www.lolhome.com/img_big/titty-sprinkles.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ptpzix0zPYA&feature=channel&list=UL

Just to put a voice to the meme...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Martial spirit is what some coaches like to call "heart".
Remember Rocky talking to his kid about boxing?
When he told him that sometimes you are in the ring and you are getting a beating and you wish the other guy would just KO you but then there is a voice that says, "one more round"...

[bawang]

"for ten years i polished this sword, now i ask you, who needs my help"? tang dynasty swordsman poem

martial spirit is how you act, what you do and feel during a fight. without fighting, you will never know if you have martial spirit.

[David Jamieson]

"for ten years i polished this sword, now i ask you, who needs my help"? tang dynasty swordsman poem

martial spirit is how you act, what you do and feel during a fight. without fighting, you will never know if you have martial spirit.

On another level, if you don't get beat and don't get back up again then you have failed to develop martial spirit.

[taai gihk yahn]

when I started in TKD, there were two brothers who were blackbelts; both were big, strong and skilled; one was technically amazing; the other was just crazy; when they sparred you, they would knock you around at a level just beyond where you were at, but they did it concertedly, they hit hard, and they just kept coming; facing these guys, you came to know the meaning of fear, because they would hurt you - not too bad (unless you showed some spirit, then they really ramped it up, lol), but just enough for you to be on your toes, and have to really swallow that fear to get out on the floor w them; turns out that certain people wouldn't spar them (I know this because the head instructor told me, years later that every so often, someone would come to him and request to not be paired w either of them); in my mind, having to face these two was an exercise in martial spirit - I hated it, but in my mind there really wasn't any option other than facing them; so you put on your best game face, and died with honor...

that's one way;

the other, less combat oriented, is to have people do overnight wilderness survival outings - give them minimal items, they have to stay out for a set period of time, etc.; from personal experience, being alone in the woods, even though you know they know where you are, etc., is challenging; this builds martial spirit, albeit in a different way

[bawang]

"for great heroes, there is either great success, or great failure. if i am to die then i die. in 20 years there will be another."

boxer rebel

[Jimbo]

when I started in TKD, there were two brothers who were blackbelts; both were big, strong and skilled; one was technically amazing; the other was just crazy; when they sparred you, they would knock you around at a level just beyond where you were at, but they did it concertedly, they hit hard, and they just kept coming; facing these guys, you came to know the meaning of fear, because they would hurt you - not too bad (unless you showed some spirit, then they really ramped it up, lol), but just enough for you to be on your toes, and have to really swallow that fear to get out on the floor w them; turns out that certain people wouldn't spar them (I know this because the head instructor told me, years later that every so often, someone would come to him and request to not be paired w either of them); in my mind, having to face these two was an exercise in martial spirit - I hated it, but in my mind there really wasn't any option other than facing them; so you put on your best game face, and died with honor...

that's one way;

the other, less combat oriented, is to have people do overnight wilderness survival outings - give them minimal items, they have to stay out for a set period of time, etc.; from personal experience, being alone in the woods, even though you know they know where you are, etc., is challenging; this builds martial spirit, albeit in a different way

That reminds me of when I started in Kenpo and also Sh!to-ryu when I was a kid, I was 13, considered too old for the kids' class, but was the youngest in the regular class. There were a number of men in their early 20s to mid-30s at those schools who liked to spar very hard. When I sparred them, they didn't care that I was a 13 year old, and kind of small for 13 at that. They went as hard or almost as hard when I sparred them as they would against other adults. I seemed to end up paired with those guys a lot. Sometimes I got hurt, but I never complained. For the first couple years, I secretly hated it, but kept going back, because it never occurred to me to quit. I just kept going back for more. After a couple of years, I grew enough and gained enough toughness and experience to deal with them, and I began to like it. I figured if I could deal with much bigger/older/more aggressive and experienced men, I could deal with kids my own age. It was at that time I appreciated that I was never pampered.

I don't know if many kids that age will be treated like that by adults in a dojo nowadays. The kid's parents would probably file a lawsuit.

[SimonM]

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable sparring with a 13 year old.

Whole can of worms there if you hurt a kid... and back in the day there wasn't anything I enjoyed more than full-contact bare-knuckle... so yeah, sticking to adults thanks.

[Jimbo]

I'm not saying I would recommend adults sparring 13 year olds, only that my experience eventually turned into a positive one. Mind you, at the time I often dreaded it, and those particular guys at that particular time just did not care. And it could have easily turned into a disaster, too.

[-N-]

Well, the person in question that prompted this thread never followed up. So often the case where people sound interested, but don't take action.

On another note... I heard from my nephew who's away for basic training at Air Force Academy. He said that bmt is a lot like kung fu, and that kung fu discipline has been a big help to him. He's one of the kids in the videos I've posted.