Glue vs. Hook

[YouKnowWho]

When you punch and your opponent blocks it, you can reblock his block (glue), or you can grab and pull his arm toward you (hook).

- Taiji Peng is a "glue" model. Taiji Lu is a "hook" model.
- XingYi Pao Chuan is a "glue" model. XingYi 劈抓(Pi Zhua) is a "hook" model.
- WC Tan Shou is a "glue" model. WC Fu Shou is a "hook" model.
- Prey mantis Gua is a "glue" model. Prey mantis Diao Shou is a "hook" model.
- Boxing crazy monkey a "glue" model. Boxing over hook is a "hook" model.
- ...

Both glue and hook exist in all TCMA styles. If you want to borrow your opponent's force to cause A + B > A, the hook model will work much better than the glue model. What's your opinion about these 2 different models?

[SPJ]

1. If you intend to grapple to restrain or set up for takedown or throw;

both glue and hook as described are important.

2. However, there is a 3 rd option.

Not to glue or hook.

Only contact to confine

You contant with one hand and strike with the other hand at the same time.

Yi Zhan Jiu Dao. As soon as you contact, you strike at the same time.

In Ba Ji, we may use wrist area.

We may also use bent elbow or triangle area/ wing to confine or distance the opponent attacking arm from getting to us.

We move in and strike at the same time.

No glue no hook no grappling.

Just move in and use elbow, shoulder, forearm or hip/ chest to kao.

3. We may kao da or kao shuai.

Not wasting time or energy in controlling his arm. As long as it is out of the way when we move in.

--

:cool:

[YouKnowWho]

2. However, there is a 3 rd option.

Not to glue or hook.

Only contact to confine

You contant with one hand and strike with the other hand at the same time.


That's like XingYi Pao Chuan. You raise the cultain and walk in. Your hand contack the cultain all the time, that's "glue" by definition.

[-N-]

When you punch and your opponent blocks it, you can reblock his block (glue), or you can grab and pull his arm toward you (hook).

If he has already blocked/contacted your attack, it is to late to glue/hook his defense.

You should have already changed and be hitting him with something else as part of a setup or combination.

If you didn't do this, and he has contact, you better be dealing with the hand(or whatever) that's not controlling you, because he should be hitting you with it.



Both glue and hook exist in all TCMA styles. If you want to borrow your opponent's force to cause A + B > A, the hook model will work much better than the glue model. What's your opinion about these 2 different models?

You can also pivot, slip, redirect etc.

Also, it is better to borrow the intent of his force than the actual force itself.

[-N-]

When you punch and your opponent blocks it, you can reblock his block (glue), or you can grab and pull his arm toward you (hook).
[...]
- Prey mantis Gua is a "glue" model. Prey mantis Diao Shou is a "hook" model.

We don't use gua/diao against a successful block.

[-N-]

When you punch and your opponent blocks it, you can reblock his block (glue), or you can grab and pull his arm toward you (hook).

This is sounding like a cooperative drill. A lot of chasing after hands. Different when someone is trying to nail you.

[-N-]

Both glue and hook exist in all TCMA styles. If you want to borrow your opponent's force to cause A + B > A, the hook model will work much better than the glue model. What's your opinion about these 2 different models?

Don't you SC guys use both at the same time, as well as in sequence(push/pull)?

And same time in combination with a slip, isn't that how the legend is born... "I tried to hit him, and he disappeared. All I saw was the sky and then I was slamming into the ground."

[YouKnowWho]

If he has already blocked/contacted your attack, it is to late to glue/hook his defense.
A punch can be just a "set up".


Don't you SC guys use both at the same time, as well as in sequence(push/pull)?

And same time in combination with a slip, isn't that how the legend is born... "I tried to hit him, and he disappeared. All I saw was the sky and then I was slamming into the ground."
The principle of "The moment that you touch your opponent, the moment that you throw him." is very hard to achieve. The reason is if you two are on the same level, you two will have about the same speed.

Many years ago, a good friend of mine told me, "If I just keep moving back, there is no way that you can reach me." I had tried with my training partner. He was right. With "glue" principle only, I can't prevent my opponent from moving back. After that day, I realized that the best time to move in is to pull my opponent into me. This way, I may only need to move in 1/2 way to meet him in the middle. I'll need a "hook" to achieve that.

[-N-]

A punch can be just a "set up".

In that case, it depends on his response. Intercept his intention. Make him fall into your attack if he is coming in. Overtake him if he is evading.



Many years ago, a good friend of mine told me, "If I just keep moving back, there is no way that you can reach me."

If he is running away, there is no fight, and you are done.

If you are just training, each person has to commit to attack at some point, or else there is no point to the training. Unless you are only developing one person's ability to overtake, and the other persn's ability to avoid.

Anybody can run away. The point is to be able to avoid and still be in position to attack.

[YouKnowWho]

If he is running away, there is no fight, and you are done.
Not if you want to hurt him so bad because he just slept with your love one. :D

I like the idea that a strike can be a grab, and a grab can be a strike. This principle make TCMA different from western boxing.

I have always wondered the relationship between the XY "Pi Quan" and the LHPM "catch grasshopper". I just found something that prove both may be the same thing.

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7963/piquan1.jpg

The translation is shown below:

The XY Pi Quan is also called 劈抓(Pi Zhua). Not only you need to strike your palm out, you also need to grab your hand back. Only if you can grab it back, you can call it Pi Quan because it has a circular motion. If your Pi Quan can only strike forward but not grab back, you can't use it to hit anybody.

[-N-]

Not if you want to hurt him so bad because he just slept with your love one. :D.

Haha. Ok, then that is a matter of footwork and running ability.



I like the idea that a strike can be a grab, and a grab can be a strike. This principle make TCMA different from western boxing.


For Praying Mantis, it is more that you have simultaneous controlling and attacking motions. Mantis is cautious that way. It's not so much that the grab and strike are interchangeable with the same hand.



I have always wondered the relationship between the XY "Pi Quan" and the LHPM "catch grasshopper". I just found something that prove both may be the same thing.

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/7963/piquan1.jpg

The translation is shown below:

The XY Pi Quan is also called 劈抓(Pi Zhua). Not only you need to strike your palm out, you also need to grab your hand back. Only if you can grab it back, you can call it Pi Quan because it has a circular motion. If your Pi Quan can only strike forward but not grab back, you can't use it to hit anybody.

I'm not familiar with XY or LHPM. But we say that the attack has to recover as fast as it went out. There has to be intent to bring back, but that does not mean literally grabbing the opponent back.

You relax to explode into attack. You relax to recover just as fast. Your power appears and disappears like lightning. This is like your pulley training where you snap and catch the weight. Once you catch, you have to instantly transition as well.

The PQ text sounds more like a warning about beginner training mistakes. People think only hit, and become rigid and leave their attack there for the other person to use. You can't follow up, and the other person takes control.

This can come from bad habits in beginner partner practice when one person leaves his hand there to give the other person a chance to figure out how to counter. This is what gives kungfu a bad name. People perpetuating beginner level mistakes.

[YouKnowWho]

For Praying Mantis, it is more that you have simultaneous controlling and attacking motions. Mantis is cautious that way. It's not so much that the grab and strike are interchangeable with the same hand.

You are right. The mantis system like to use "switching hands" instead. You attack right, when your opponent blocks it, you use your left hand to reblock his block, and "still attack with your right".

[YouKnowWho]

But we say that the attack has to recover as fast as it went out.

I have just found this clip. At 0.05, Sam Chin did exactly what I'm talking about here. Please notice that Sam Chin's strike at 0.05 is just to

- make contact,
- pull (hook) himeslf into his opponent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSAuR8cOmHM

[-N-]

I have just found this clip. At 0.05, Sam Chin did exactly what I'm talking about here. Please notice that Sam Chin's strike at 0.05 is just to

- make contact,
- pull (hook) himeslf into his opponent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSAuR8cOmHM

The pull was with his controlling hand, not his striking hand.

Right hand attack to the inside line to draw the reaction.

Left hand intercepts the reaction on the inside line, then switches to outside to pull.

Right goes in with hook/elbow.

A little too much indirection for me. Left already on the inside controlling, then why switch to outside? Also a little too busy on top. Maybe go into high/low by that time already.

It would be more like your idea if he did right feint, left control, switch to right hook punch to land.

If the hook is blocked, switch to right diao on contact, and immediately follow with another right hook punch in a double tap timing.

The 3 right hands would be your interchange of strike, hooking, strike with same hand.

[SPJ]

That's like XingYi Pao Chuan. You raise the cultain and walk in. Your hand contack the cultain all the time, that's "glue" by definition.

there are 2 phases or steps

1. contact or touch zhan

2. link or "glue" lian.

:)

[mickey]

Greetings,

This can also happen when you are working on glue. Go to 3:20 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFHvcLIdm04


mickey