Posture Training

[YouKnowWho]

Many people like to talk about posture training such as San Ti Shi, ... as if only "internal" guys know about posture training. Here are some posture training that external guys do. There are much harder to do than the San Ti Shi.

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3319/chang13tb.jpg

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6512/13taibo5.jpg

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7051/13tbzz.jpg

http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/7109/necksurrounding.jpg

[David Jamieson]

Without putting forces on the structure, what does this develop besides balance in that posture?

When are forces put on the structure to help the practitioner understand the nature of the posture and the point of it's collapse?

How does power get developed from standing in posture alone?

[Robinhood]

Many people like to talk about posture training such as San Ti Shi, ... as if only "internal" guys know about posture training. Here are some posture training that external guys do. There are much harder to do than the San Ti Shi.

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3319/chang13tb.jpg

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6512/13taibo5.jpg

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7051/13tbzz.jpg

http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/7109/necksurrounding.jpg

If you can maintain those for an hour without sweating , you are probably doing them right.

If you can't do the basic stance right, then more advanced will be harder to get right.



Cheers

[MightyB]

Many people like to talk about posture training such as San Ti Shi, ... as if only "internal" guys know about posture training. Here are some posture training that external guys do. There are much harder to do than the San Ti Shi.

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3319/chang13tb.jpg

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/6512/13taibo5.jpg

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7051/13tbzz.jpg

http://img573.imageshack.us/img573/7109/necksurrounding.jpg

Third one down looks like Yi Quan. That's an internal art.

[MightyB]

Yi Quan

http://apittman.com/images/ptt/YiQuan_1.jpg

http://www.kung-fu.se/pics/yiquan_2.jpg

[MightyB]

I think there's more similarities to MA than differences.

[David Jamieson]

I think there's more similarities to MA than differences.

absolutely.

The human factor dictates this.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The more one sees of different MA, the more one sees of how all MA have more in common than they do different, even more so when it comes to practical application.

[YouKnowWho]

Without putting forces on the structure, what does this develop besides balance in that posture?

When are forces put on the structure to help the practitioner understand the nature of the posture and the point of it's collapse?

How does power get developed from standing in posture alone?
There are 3 stages for the posture training:

1. solo standing,
2. holding bricks in both hands standing,
3. standing but move your body.

The weight is added in the 2nd stage. The brick is easier to get than the stone lock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=giv7mUC9wqk&feature=endscreen

[YouKnowWho]

The hardest is I know is to wrap your foot around a pole and hang there. It is difficult, but if you can achieve it, you can break any leg in throwing range.
This's "麻花(Ma Hua) - leg twist".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqnQj1Lx02Y

[YouKnowWho]

Third one down looks like Yi Quan. That's an internal art.

It's called "魁星点斗 (Kui Xing Dian Dou) - Kui Xing points at star".

[YouKnowWho]

The more one sees of different MA, the more one sees of how all MA have more in common than they do different, even more so when it comes to practical application.
People with 1/2

- full attitude like to see the "similiarity".
- empty attitude like to see the "difference".

[Robinhood]

Styles are just different tools to fix yourself, at the end you are at same place, 2 arms, one body and 2 legs all having to work together with same elements.



Cheers

[taaigihk]

This's "麻花(Ma Hua) - leg twist".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqnQj1Lx02Y

Cool. It should be Tianjin shuaijiao rather than Baoding. ;)

[YouKnowWho]

Cool. It should be Tianjin shuaijiao rather than Baoding. ;)

I believe "麻花(Ma Hua) - leg twist" is Baoding SC speciality.

[taaigihk]

I believe "麻花(Ma Hua) - leg twist" is Baoding SC speciality.

Was thinking about 18th street mahua - 十八街麻花. :)

[RWilson]

Without putting forces on the structure, what does this develop besides balance in that posture?

When are forces put on the structure to help the practitioner understand the nature of the posture and the point of it's collapse?

How does power get developed from standing in posture alone?

Gravity pulling down your body weight is the force put on your structure. If you put all of your weight on one leg then you are exercising even more. Tilting your body forward causes you to tighten your muscles more thereby exercising the body and increasing power. The more tension you can create in a given moment the stronger you are at that moment/angle.

If an old guy gets hurt in a car accident and needs to rehab his body are you saying the above exercises would not be beneficial UNLESS he is holding a barbell with weights?

[David Jamieson]

Gravity pulling down your body weight is the force put on your structure. If you put all of your weight on one leg then you are exercising even more. Tilting your body forward causes you to tighten your muscles more thereby exercising the body and increasing power. The more tension you can create in a given moment the stronger you are at that moment/angle.

If an old guy gets hurt in a car accident and needs to rehab his body are you saying the above exercises would not be beneficial UNLESS he is holding a barbell with weights?

Nope. I'm thinking in context to how the structure holds up when kinetic energy external to it is shot at it etc.

Stressing any muscle will cause it to grow stronger through adaptation to the forces being used.

pulling is a different force than pushing on that structure as well. Oblique angles of attack are also of interest.

So, the posture to me, is the beginning of the knowledge of the structure, applied forces would be the practical physics knowledge that would in turn lend itself to proper use of the structure in context to it's combat relevancy.

If just rehab, then, yeah, get the muscle working and attenuating rehabilitation and woo hoo, you got cross over usefulness. But original intention of these postures is contextual to martial art skill development. I am questioning in order to correctly grasp how and why in peoples views this would work.

[EarthDragon]

I teach these to my students, we have 8 what we call the enducance stances. they have many benefits and should be practiced on a daily basis. YKW in your list we call the first one flying sparrow and second sparrow splits, 3 rd single leg or cold chicken stance, not familar with the 4th however like I said we have 5 more that shifu shyun showed me.

[YouKnowWho]

I don't spend time in San Ti Shi ZZ (not enough challenge for me), but I do spend a lot of my training time in 13 Tai Bao ZZ. Here are more 13 太保(Tai bao) to share. You can hold bricks (or stone locks) on both hands in your training. I have linked it into a short form that's easier to remember.

1. 旱地拔葱 (Han Di Ba Cong) Pull onion off a dry ground
2. 李奎磨斧 (Li Kui Mo Fu) Li Kui sharps the axe
3. 仙人照鏡 (Xian Ren Zhao Jing) Angle look at mirror
4. 钝链割谷 (Dun Lian Ge Gu) Dull sickle cut rice
5. 舍身探海 (She Shen Tan Hai) Sacristy body and dive into ocean
6. 魁星点斗 (Kui Xing Dian Dou) Kui Xing points at star
7. 烏龍戏水 (Wu Long Xi Shui) Black dragon plays with water
8. 羅漢观天 (Luo Han Guan Tian) Lou Han looks at sky
9. 燕子超水 (Yan Zi Chao Shui) Swallow skips water
10. 合卧 (He Wo) Combine stance
11. 古樹盤根 (Gu Shu Pan Gen) Old tree twist the root
12. 托天式 (Tuo Tian Shi) Lift the sky
13. 三平 (San Ping) Three plains

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/8412/13taibo.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5LIVXnutDM

[IronFist]

What is the purpose of holding bricks in the hands when doing stance training?

[YouKnowWho]

What is the purpose of holding bricks in the hands when doing stance training?

If you "twist" your bricks when you stand, you can also develop your finger strength and wrist strength. It's pretty much like watching TV when you hold in horse stance. Try to kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

[bawang]

Many people like to talk about posture training such as San Ti Shi, ... as if only "internal" guys know about posture training. Here are some posture training that external guys do. There are much harder to do than the San Ti Shi.


you missed the point. san ti shi is a fighting stance.

[RWilson]

you missed the point. san ti shi is a fighting stance.

It is not trained as so. It is taught to align mystical acu points to allow smoothe flow of qi. It is also to align the structure so that hsing I moving forms can be done with power. And this is where the training stops.

I understand what yOu are saying bawang but why hold static San ti if it is a fighting stance? Do boxers hold weak side forward strong side back for long periods of time? Do bjj people lay in guard holding the posture for 20 mi items to feel qi flOw? No. Stances are alive not static. Hsing I people hold san ti as a way to waste time.

[YouKnowWho]

you missed the point. san ti shi is a fighting stance.

When I feel tired, I'll use San Ti Shi to rest. I just feel so relax in San Ti Shi. I have never think about it's a training stance. I have always believed that when I train, I'm not suppose to feel comfortable.

[xinyidizi]

Here is some of the xinyi postures I like for training.

[IronFist]

Do bjj people lay in guard holding the posture for 20 mi items to feel qi flOw? No.

That's cuz bjj doesn't use qi! Duh :p

How long before someone makes an internal version of bjj?

[RWilson]

That's cuz bjj doesn't use qi! Duh :p

How long before someone makes an internal version of bjj?

It is already internal and here is how. Internal kung fooers know they can handle bjj people even though they themselves never studied any kind of grappling beyond the "you grab my wrist and I pretend to break yours and knok you down". They internally know they can handle bjj.

[bawang]

I understand what yOu are saying bawang but why hold static San ti if it is a fighting stance?

think this way. santi is so emphasized in xingyi, that even when they meditate they do it in a fighting stance.

[YouKnowWho]

meditate ...

The moment that we mix "meditation" and "combat" discussion, the moment that discussion will be guided into the "abstract" direction. For "meditation" purpose, you can stand in any posture that you want to even if it may have nothing to do with combat.

[bawang]

hay

hay

HAY

JOHN WANG







why you always be the negative nancy.

[IronFist]

It is already internal and here is how. Internal kung fooers know they can handle bjj people even though they themselves never studied any kind of grappling beyond the "you grab my wrist and I pretend to break yours and knok you down". They internally know they can handle bjj.

Since BJJ can defeat internal arts, BJJ must be high level internal!

[mickey]

Greetings,

I recently had the opportunity to view what is called the Universal Athletic Position (posture?). When viewing it, I immediately got the image of YouKnowWho's Master doing "The Swallow Splits"(as described in Earth Dragon's tradition) as a means to actually train it.

mickey

[Brule]

hay

hay

HAY

JOHN WANG







why you always be the negative nancy.

John Wang is a realist.

[David Jamieson]

why you always be the negative nancy.

It's "Negative Nelly"

A Nancy is what we call a whining little *****.
As in "Nancy Boy". :p

You're welcome. :)

[Lucas]

It's "Negative Nelly"

A Nancy is what we call a whining little *****.
As in "Nancy Boy". :p

You're welcome. :)

no he was right its negative nancy. cuz its a double slam. your a 'negative little whining *****'

im not agreeing with bawang that john wang is, but just that he used the right term. i vote that we make a poll to figure this one out via the masses.

[Brule]

Bawang is from a village and his term is the realz. Negative Nelly is the city, more *******ized version of the saying....hence non-traditional more MMAish.

[Lucas]

is it this nelly?
http://greenobles.com/data_images/nelly/nelly-04.jpg

[YouKnowWho]

This is standing posture for "health", "self-cultivation", and "meditation". You may argue that it's good for Qi flow, internal alignment, internal structure, open Kua, Sung, sink, ...

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6677/yiquan.jpg

[bawang]

i visualize qi when i bicep curl.

PROBLEM SLOVED

[JamesC]

i visualize qi when i bicep curl.

PROBLEM SLOVED

Funniest sh!t ever.

[EarthDragon]

Mickey, where did you see this UAP posture? I have seen this done for stretching in football/ soccer warm ups but obviously it has differnt emphasis... thanks in advance

[mickey]

Greetings EarthDragon,

For those who do not know what UAP is:

http://www.allouteffort.com/2010/03/uap-universal-athletic-position.html


While one may think that the simple horse stance would be the best way to train the UAP. I was "given" the information that the best way to train that posture would be to use the swallow splitting posture. I have not seen it trained in that way. Studying what I was given I found that it does offer benefits that would help those who use the UAP in their athletic endeavor:

- It helps strengthen the lower back

- It helps strengthen the hamstrings

- It enhances foot Earth connectivity

- Offers lightness in movement

Overall, yielding a grounded, yet ready to move, benefit to the athlete. One can gain progressive benefit from doing dead lifts. Still, the swallow splitting posture, holding it for time and endurance, would be of great benefit to the most seasoned athlete.

mickey

[mickey]

More,

The Grandmaster Chang holds the posture with his feet turned in. This goes beyond the the simple calisthenic it resembles. His posture forces the hamstrings to stay engaged, working from the feet straight up to the erector muscles. The arm position brings additional recruitment of the back, rear deltoids, triceps and forearms and fingers. It is nothing to relax to.

mickey

[mickey]

Greetings,

Instead of letting the topic of this thread sink into oblivion, I have been working with the Swallow Splitting posture since my last post. Though it is incredibly difficult to maintain the posture (its various tensions), I am very impressed with the benefits, only some of which I described previously. What I have learned is that this posture was not created upon whim. There is an internal component that strongly suggests an ancient, and probably lost, knowledge of energy work in its creation. It is one of the few exercises that I have experienced that offer a return that is greater than the time expended. One thing that I have noticed is that I needed to spread my legs more to maintain proper tension in my hamstrings as I got stronger; at some point, I see myself in the near split position. On the evaluative level, I think this posture would be the perfect complement to horse stance training. For those who do a lot of work sitting down, this posture offers a very nice traction to the lower back.

I could go on about what I experienced. I do not want to shade anyone's expectations. This is one posture I will keep and continue to work with. What I will share is that because of the abdominal contraction involved in holding the posture, it will help clean you out. I share that, unabashedly.

Thank you, YouKnowWho for taking the time to bring your question forward. I am better for the experience.


mickey

[YouKnowWho]

The Grandmaster Chang holds the posture with his feet turned in.
It will help you to develop a strong "shin bite".

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/5466/shinbite.png

[mickey]

Hi YouKnowWho,

Thank you for sharing that photo.

For that technique to work, would I need to coordinate the Swallow Splitting posture with the intent of trying to lift the front part of my feet off the ground in order to activate the muscle along the shin?

mickey

[YouKnowWho]

It's hard to lift the front part of your foot. It's much easier to drop your low leg to your foot because the gravity. As long as you can reduce the angle between your foot and your low leg (try to drop your knee as close to the ground as possible), and as long as you use your shin bone to bite into a small tree trunk, you will have strong "shin bite".

Also you will need the "flexibility" to be able to touch your left hand to your right ankle (so you can grab on your opponent's ankle) when you are in the "shin bite" posture.

[mickey]

Hi YouKnowWho,

Thank you for your assistance.

mickey