What's your solution?

[YouKnowWho]

If your opponent does this to you, what will be your favor solution?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy6j9rwcahA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhho8FZ59So

[-N-]

Speed up, take control, attack.

[-N-]

Didn't you ask this before on the circular drag?

[YouKnowWho]

Didn't you ask this before on the circular drag?

Just try to change those "abstract Qi" discussion into some "concrete problem solving" discussion.

[-N-]

Haha, I know what you mean!

:D

[Frost]

umm keep my elbows in???

[sanjuro_ronin]

See my sig line :)

[MightyB]

1st vid - I wouldn't chase.

2nd vid - get in tight and hope I was faster.

[SimonM]

Sing "skip to my loo"

[EarthDragon]

try to circle slightly faster than that of your opponent, and get as close to thier center as possible and grasp them, this way you will be moving with thier cintricular force. This to me is the best counter for a drag

[Frost]

try to circle slightly faster than that of your opponent, and get as close to thier center as possible and grasp them, this way you will be moving with thier cintricular force. This to me is the best counter for a drag

id say a re-drag or simply cutting the corner is the best counter

actually hand fighting and keeping the elbows in are the best counters, prevention is better than cure

[MightyB]

Fun thing for Judo peeps. Watch the first vid with the linear drag. Next time you're in practice randori... get a loose single grip with your left hand on your opponent's lapel and walk away like that to your right. I'd say darn near 100% of the time your opponent will chase your right hand with his left - turn quickly back towards him grip with your right and do a back sacrifice like tomoe nage. It's funny as shiite but it works pretty much all the time.

I've never tried it in competitive shiai so I don't know if it'll work there though.

[Scott R. Brown]

Go with the force.....circle under the arm, or over the arm, of the opponent depending upon how he positions himself. Then apply an armbar and/or throw as the opportunity presents itself.....

....then sing skip-to-malou.....

(Malou is my wife's nickname, short for Marilou);):D

[Scott R. Brown]

That is......

AFTER I moved my qi to my tan tien, and progressed half way through the microscopic orbit!:p

[Shaolin]

Don't let someone grab you. It really is that simple.

[Robinhood]

Go with the force.....circle under the arm, or over the arm, of the opponent depending upon how he positions himself. Then apply an armbar and/or throw as the opportunity presents itself.....

....then sing skip-to-malou.....

(Malou is my wife's nickname, short for Marilou);):D

Close, you need to add to the force, and don't stop the microscopic orbit., but use the grand orbit.

[Scott R. Brown]

Close, you need to add to the force, and don't stop the microscopic orbit., but use the grand orbit.

I wouldn't say you NEED to, it depends upon what openings occur as you go with the force of your opponent.

About the micro/macro orbits....Yeah I know, I was giving you a dig!:p

[ginosifu]

If your opponent does this to you, what will be your favor solution?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy6j9rwcahA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhho8FZ59So

For the first vid of a straight arm drag, I would follow and use Taiji shoulder strike. However, you must be quick or you will be behind him too quickly. You have enough listening skill to be able to adjust your movements and drive your shoulder into him.

For the second circling one I would use Turning throw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPUhMbmyRfg Again you must have good listening skills to follow their energy and then apply your own throw.

ginosifu

[David Jamieson]

spin inward and take the draggers arm at the elbow and armpit.

or

spin inward in the same direction and grab the neck in a wrap.

or

spin in towards to free the arm and then out with a back-fist

or

step in, sit, brace the draggers arm and pull back


Is this what you guys mean by "speed up-take control"?

[goju]

what is being done at first in the videos? a wrist/forearm grab? just circle my wrists around theres to keep them from holding onto me or jab/cross

[bawang]

i would stop kissing my teachers ass and do a real manly demo, instead of pretending to be tossed like A WOMANS

A WOMANS

[sanjuro_ronin]

i would stop kissing my teachers ass and do a real manly demo, instead of pretending to be tossed like A WOMANS

A WOMANS

You say that as if it was a bad thing.

[YouKnowWho]

What's the best solution?

1st - you will need to reverse your opponent's "pulling" into your "pushing" and take back your offense and put your oponent into defense mode.
2nd - you need to move infront of him (not toward him) to "jam" his moving path. Your body will need to "cut" into a special angle. This may be easy to do in the "circular drag" but it may be hard to do in "linear drag" becaus your window is very small. The moment that your opponent's body is moving away from you, you lose that proper "angle". This is why the "linear drag" is much more effective.

Any other solutions are just too easy for your opponent to borrow your force to against you.

[Robinhood]

What's the best solution?

1st - you will need to reverse your opponent's "pulling" into your "pushing" and take back your offense and put your oponent into defense mode.
2nd - you need to move infront of him (not toward him) to "jam" his moving path. Your body will need to "cut" into a special angle. This may be easy to do in the "circular drag" but it may be hard to do in "linear drag" becaus your window is very small. The moment that your opponent's body is moving away from you, you lose that proper "angle". This is why the "linear drag" is much more effective.

Any other solutions are just too easy for your opponent to borrow your force to against you.


Less movement is better than more movement, and no movement is better than less movement.

[YouKnowWho]

Less movement is better than more movement, and no movement is better than less movement.

- Rich is poor, and poor is rich.
- Good is bad, and bad is good.
- Love is hate, and hate is love.
- To have is not to have, and not to have is to have.
- ...

[Scott R. Brown]

To sound wise is harder than to sound foolish, even if the wisdom is foolishness!:p

You may quote me!

[SteveLau]

The grabbling techniques used in the two videos are very similar. IMHO, they can be countered with the same solution. When the opponent is circling to my right side, I will just launch a right side kick to his lower gate. That will slow him down perhaps even to a halt. Then, without wasting time, turn left and execute a Kwa with my left back fist to his upper gate. Just to ensure victory.



Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

[YouKnowWho]

When the opponent is circling to my right side, I will just launch a right side kick to his lower gate.

Please get a training partner and test this 10 times yourself, and see how many times that your right leg can kick out in that situation. You then reverse the situation and see how many times that your opponent can kick you within 10 tries.

It's not as easy as you may think. When your opponent drags you, he will force you to shift weight on your front leg. Your front leg will be so heavy and can't kick out.

[-N-]

When your opponent drags you, he will force you to shift weight on your front leg. Your front leg will be so heavy and can't kick out.

That's a convenient way to keep the other guy from kicking you. Make him put weight on his kickng leg when he doesn't want to.

[Scott R. Brown]

It's not as easy as you may think. When your opponent drags you, he will force you to shift weight on your front leg. Your front leg will be so heavy and can't kick out.

Only initially, if you enter quicker than the pull you create the opportunity to kick, but I still think it is low percentage response. If you are going to enter quickly, and choose to defend yourself using your legs, and the opportunity presents itself, it might be more efficient to hook the opponents leg.

[bawang]

Don't let someone grab you. It really is that simple.

what if they have magnet hands

[-N-]

what if they have magnet hands

Use your own magnet hands in the same polarity and bounce him away without touching him.

[jmd161]

id say a re-drag or simply cutting the corner is the best counter

actually hand fighting and keeping the elbows in are the best counters, prevention is better than cure

+1This!

From what I can make from the video this is the best option!

[MightyB]

what if they have magnet hands

I imagine SJ guys are a lot like Judo guys in that some of them have a steel vice like grip. Sometimes you just have to give up the jacket because you aren't going to break their grip.

[SPJ]

If your opponent does this to you, what will be your favor solution?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy6j9rwcahA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhho8FZ59So

It would be following along.

The first clip. We may walk or run along at the same direction. When he stops, we use our body or shoulder to kao. Get close and not away.

The second clip. We may walk or run in circle, too. Or just sit down and use our body weight downward to neutralize his circular or horizontal jin downward.

etc etc

:)

[YouKnowWho]

It would be following along.

The first clip. We may walk or run along at the same direction. When he stops, we use our body or shoulder to kao. Get close and not away.

The second clip. We may walk or run in circle, too. Or just sit down and use our body weight downward to neutralize his circular or horizontal jin downward.

etc etc

:)

- Your solution (run along at the same direction) for the 1st clip may end like this:

If your opponent wants to follow you, you can help him to follow you a bit more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG1PEzHuKfY

- Your solution (sit down and use our body weight downward) for the 2nd clip may end like this:

If your opponent wants to sit down, you can help him to sit down a bit more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XxPb_SrIxg

Both yielding and resistence are not good solutions. the best solution is to take your offense back and reverse your opponent's pulling into your pushing.

[SteveLau]

YouKnowWho,

Thanks for pointing out the detail of the grabbing techniques. It is not easy to tell much from watching the videos at a computer.

IMHO, either way of resisting or yielding might work. If I am quick enough to response, and that is my balance has not been dragged off yet, I can lean away from the opponent's pull. Thus my centre of gravity will be shifted to my back leg, so my front leg can kick out right away at about the same time. If my balance is already off caused by the opponent's pull, then I will borrow his force and add my force to quickly ram into him with my elbow and shoulder. Take caution in avoiding his free hand in getting me.


P.S. I find that the grabbing techniques do not serve much purpose other than defense purpose in preventing the opponent from attacking me by dragging him off balance from time to time.


KC
Hong Kong