Have you ever trained with someone significantly lighter than you?

[IronFist]

Being a skinny guy myself, I can't even imagine what it must feel like for a 220 pound dude to spar/grapple with a 150 pound dude.

I trained with a guy who was 140 when I was 170 and I thought he felt like a stick man. He was still way better at BJJ than me, though. It was the kind of thing where we were about even... I could resist him with raw strength, but his technique was too good for me to do anything to. And his technique was good enough to submit me, but I could just muscle my way out of most of it. And that was only about a 20% difference in weight!

I've rolled with guys in the 200-220 range before. It's just like... D.amn! Most of them were bigger, stronger, and more skilled than me. But it's also a great learning experience.

I remember holding the Muay Thai pads for my friend who was 190-200 pounds or so, 6'3", and my old weight lifting partner. Just holding the pads for his kicks was a workout. Geez. He's like "do they feel hard?" I'm like uh... yeah. He was a noob to Muay Thai but had a good strength base from weight lifting.

I can't imagine holding the pads for someone who is like 250 and really rocking them.

I seriously cannot imagine getting hit by someone who is like 250 pounds of muscle.

What's it like for you big guys training with small guys?

On one occasion I trained with a guy who was smaller than me, slightly less skilled, and weaker. It was one of those situations where I could "break the rules" and just do whatever I wanted, like the stuff that would never work against bigger, stronger people.

Is that what you big guys feel like all the time?

Oh, and just for the sake of completeness in examples, one time I rolled with a guy who was bigger than me but had no training. That was an interested experience. I could still submit him, but it was kind of hard work. As he got better, my advantage over him decreased exponentially.

[RWilson]

I work out with girls occasionally. It is not my favorite activity(I would rather e doing other stuff :)

It is sooo easy to throw them around. I work out with bigger guys and they beat me. I wish I could lie and say that being soft helps with bigger guys(like they say in tai chi) but getting stronger is more important(being soft does not sit well with the wife either ;). It is hard to wrestle or do any martial activity with a guy that outweighs you by 40+ pounds. They go through me like a knife through really really melted butter. In the beginning it was not even a contest. Now it is a bit better but not really. Lol.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've always trained with bigger guys.
Just how it always worked out.
When I do train with smaller guys are women I find myself holding back A LOT in terms of contact ( striking) but not so much in terms of grappling.
Funny story:
Years ago when bouncing I had been working out with some of the guys for a few weeks, the smallest was 5-10 and 195lbs, I was 165 at the time.
We got into an altercation one night outside the club and a guy was hitting on of the bouncers from behind, now this was fall and it was cold and the guy had a big coat on so I thought he was bigger than he was, so I grabbed him from behind and "belly-to-back" suplex him BUT because he was so light, I threw him over a parked car and into the street into uncoming traffic !
LMAO !
He was ok but that was a bit freaky let me tell you !

[Featherstone]

I'm usually the big guy in class so yes, it is nice when I do get someone of my size to work out with, dosent happen all that often though. My fellow classmates love it though as I fit the standard profile of someone that is going to do them bodily harm! :D It never ceases to amaze me though how many people try to square off and go toe toe with me, it's the first thing I tell them when we spar, do not do this as you will lose. They try anyway and it doesnt go well for them, so we reset and after about the third round the finally understand what it is Im saying to them and finally start working my sides / back and staying out of the direct line of assault. Then I switch it up on them and really confuse them :D

[Shaolin]

I walk at 190-195lbs and fight at 170lbs, my coaches always have me train with the heavies. It's improved my technique greatly. It was real fun last year because we had 3 students who were coincidentally all 6'8", 290-295lbs and I was always their sparring partner when they showed up to class. I miss those guys.

[SimonM]

There generally aren't bigger guys than me where I've trained (maybe I should have a meetup with Dale sometime ;) ) so, yes, I've trained with people lighter than me. I prefer to minimize weight and reach advantages as much as I can when I train.

[IronFist]

I walk at 190-195lbs and fight at 170lbs, my coaches always have me train with the heavies. It's improved my technique greatly. It was real fun last year because we had 3 students who were coincidentally all 6'8", 290-295lbs and I was always their sparring partner when they showed up to class. I miss those guys.

Whoa! :eek:

[Frost]

Yes I train with smaller guys all the time (that’s what being a powerlifter does to you lol)
Its no big deal you tend to work bottom more than the top when grappling, be less aggressive in the clinch, and in striking pull your punches more
What I will say is that small people offer their own problems to solve, on the ground its harder to pin them because you are used to guys with a higher centre of mass,you are also used to much less hip movement and a higher chest, you have to adjust a lot, in the clinch they tend to hit low leg attacks more which can be a surprise especially as you tend to not want to sprawl hard on them, most guys over 220 pounds will not as a general run hit low doubles or ankle picks they tend to be upper body based wrestlers
When it comes to striking smaller guys are typically faster and use more footwork which can take some getting used to, they also throw more combinations: us big guys tend to load up the shots, rest recover and repeat
The above are all generalisation I realise but sometimes generalisations come true
One thing I will say is that being the biggest guy in the class on a consistent basis breads bad habbits, you become less explosive because…well your size does a lot of things for you, you become a bit less focused on technique and fixing the holes in your games…..when I competed in grappling we have about 8 guys all in the 200+ range, when we went to comps and fought with other 200+ guys who didn’t have good sized training partners you could tell straight away they weren’t used to fighting guys their own size

[jmd161]

One thing I will say is that being the biggest guy in the class on a consistent basis breads bad habbits, you become less explosive because…well your size does a lot of things for you, you become a bit less focused on technique and fixing the holes in your games…..


I agree with this... anytime I train I'm always the biggest guy so I always train with smaller guys. Not many guys my size training in CMA or anything other than maybe football!:D

I've always been a freak of nature and was always fast or athletic for my large size... now that i'm 46... I've noticed the difference of not having my athleticism to carry me.

[SimonM]

I agree with this... anytime I train I'm always the biggest guy so I always train with smaller guys. Not many guys my size training in CMA or anything other than maybe football!:D


I also agree.

I try to compensate by sparring people who are much more experienced than me; so that they can deliver enough power for me to feel the shots when I get hit. With some of the really little guys I could stand there soaking hits without really feeling it... and not because of any sort of iron shirt training; just because of the size differential.

[jmd161]

I also agree.

I try to compensate by sparring people who are much more experienced than me; so that they can deliver enough power for me to feel the shots when I get hit. With some of the really little guys I could stand there soaking hits without really feeling it... and not because of any sort of iron shirt training; just because of the size differential.

I use to try and do this as well but haven't in about 3-4 yrs now... the last time I trained with some guys they were a lot more experienced (they were BJJ guys) but, I was a lot bigger than the guys I worked with. In some cases I was 100-150 lbs heavier than the guy I trained with... as you could imagine my weight presented major problems for them. I'm by no means any type of submission guy but, I did wrestle when in school and have a decent base... add that with the weight advantage and I was able to handle myself pretty well!

[SimonM]

I use to try and do this as well but haven't in about 3-4 yrs now... the last time I trained with some guys they were a lot more experienced (they were BJJ guys) but, I was a lot bigger than the guys I worked with. In some cases I was 100-150 lbs heavier than the guy I trained with... as you could imagine my weight presented major problems for them. I'm by no means any type of submission guy but, I did wrestle when in school and have a decent base... add that with the weight advantage and I was able to handle myself pretty well!

I know that story. Back when I was rolling a lot I used to wrestle with brown belts - they could usually submit me pretty handily but if I went much below that I'd run into a weight / size advantage that made developing skill problematic at times. I'd just power through techniques.

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

I also agree.

I try to compensate by sparring people who are much more experienced than me; so that they can deliver enough power for me to feel the shots when I get hit. With some of the really little guys I could stand there soaking hits without really feeling it... and not because of any sort of iron shirt training; just because of the size differential.

Careful who reads this. lol.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I also agree.

I try to compensate by sparring people who are much more experienced than me; so that they can deliver enough power for me to feel the shots when I get hit. With some of the really little guys I could stand there soaking hits without really feeling it... and not because of any sort of iron shirt training; just because of the size differential.

They must have been doing WC.
:D

[jmd161]

They must have been doing WC.
:D

Wing Chun takes a lot of abuse on the forums huh? :confused:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Wing Chun takes a lot of abuse on the forums huh? :confused:

Yep, they are the red head step child of TCMA !
:p

[Lucas]

Yep, they are the red head step child of TCMA !
:p

those poor gingers :(

[IronFist]

Yep, they are the red head step child of TCMA !
:p

Is that because WC guys can't even stop arguing amongst themselves about what is/isn't WC/WT/VT?

Or is it because WC has proven itself to be less effective for fighting than the other KF styles?

Or is it because of chi sao?

[SimonM]

Careful who reads this. lol.

Heh, worst thing that happens some little guy comes up to Toronto to prove me wrong and then, at least, I get a good fight. ;)

[I Hate Ashida Kim]

Heh, worst thing that happens some little guy comes up to Toronto to prove me wrong and then, at least, I get a good fight. ;)

I wasn't referring to you :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

Is that because WC guys can't even stop arguing amongst themselves about what is/isn't WC/WT/VT?

Or is it because WC has proven itself to be less effective for fighting than the other KF styles?

Or is it because of chi sao?

Yes.:mad:
:D:D:p:D:D

[SimonM]

I wasn't referring to you :)

My experience doesn't prove or disprove that of any other large martial artists. I can merely speak to my own experience. :)

[Pork Chop]

Little guys hit you and if you can even see it, a lot of times you can't do anything about it.
it sux.

I always thought grappling was easier on little guys trying to make up for a size disadvantage (vs striking); because of grappling moves/locks employing leverage.

[YouKnowWho]

I used to pick up big guys as my training partners. Oneday my teacher asked me to change partner to a much light weight guy. I found out that:

- My speed increased big time. I could move much faster.
- It's much easier for me to develop new skills.

I strongly recommand "lighter weight" training partners. Heavy training partner will make you slow and lazy, also you may be afraid to try something new.

[jdhowland]

As the token roundeye in classes of predominantly Chinese Americans I only had one good training partner who could knock me around--a 5'10" Chinese-Hawaiian. I had him on reach and height but his arms were as big as my legs!

Now I have training partners of all sizes.

[Drake]

I was stacked by a much smaller, but military and professionally trained MMA guy. It was pretty quick, too. Someday I'll get my rematch.

I also lost to a smaller TCMA guy many years back, and ended up studying under him. It reinforced the skill over mass concept, that's for sure. But I'm pretty sure this guy was an alien cyborg sent to test my ability to handle defeat. :D

[Lee Chiang Po]

It has been my personal experience that the average large man does not really know how to fight. His size usually gets him over and he never really had to learn how to fight. In my case, I stand slightly over 5'4" tall, but most of my younger life I scaled at 206 pounds. Mostly raw bone and muscle. Just looking down at the top of someone's head can create a great deal of over confidence in most large men, and they are seldom ever prepared for what would follow. It is pretty much human nature I guess.
Wing Chun does get a good ragging most of the time, but it really does not deserve it. It is the most effective of all the TCMA in my opinion, and can hold it's own against most any other system I can imagine. I wouldn't want to tie up with Mike Tyson or some big professional fighter, but I seriously doubt there are many MMA fighters that could stand up to someone like that either. Average man against average man, trained in most anything he chooses, will run a risk in fighting a Wing Chun fighter. For real fighting, it is the only system that you can keep even in your old age. All the other stuff is usually young man stuff and lost with age. I am 67 years old now, and I think I can whip any 67 year old out there, no matter your gung fu, unless you are a Wing Chun fighter. You might be able to keep me from killing you.

[SimonM]

It has been my personal experience that the average large man does not really know how to fight.

The average person doesn't know how to fight - size has nothing to do with it. Most people don't train in fighting; these days, most people live in places with a modicum of civilization where knowing how to fight is a luxury rather than a necessity...

At least the average internet citizen.


His size usually gets him over and he never really had to learn how to fight.

There is some truth to this - as it applies to large guys and whether they need learn fight. But that isn't to say that a large guy who trains how to fight won't know how.


Just looking down at the top of someone's head can create a great deal of over confidence in most large men, and they are seldom ever prepared for what would follow.

Here you descend to supposition.



It is the most effective of all the TCMA in my opinion, and can hold it's own against most any other system I can imagine.


Evidence?


I wouldn't want to tie up with Mike Tyson or some big professional fighter, but I seriously doubt there are many MMA fighters that could stand up to someone like that either.

Am I the only one here who remembers Tyson's abortive MT career? No disrespect to the man - he was a great boxer and could probably beat most MMA champs in a boxing match. Throw in kicks and wrestling and Tyson would probably find the UFC heavyweights had an advantage over him.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Proof is difficult to present. I guess that in my case, I have probably been involved in over 200 fights over about 30 or 35 years and although I have taken some real beatings I have never yet lost a fight. And being only 5'4" tall, I am speaking from experience when I say most men have a real sense of superiority when they can look down at the top of your head.
I have not practiced or trained my Wing Chun in well over40 years. Probably close to 50 years now. I felt that I was about as good as I would ever get. I have not lost it even now, and I do not have to do any particular stretch or execise to be able to do any of it even today at 67 years of age. If you are doing some other form of gung fu I suspect you will have to continue to do certain things in order to retain it, and even then age would exclude a great deal of it for you.
And even if the average man doesn't really know how to fight, it is not to say he can not inflict serious injury upon you. I have only fought one man that was gung fu trained and he was said to be the most dangerous mantis fighter in New Orleans area. I beat him so bad even my friends shunned me for being so brutal. Most of the people I have tussled with actually attempted to box with me. Some had taken karate classes for a little while and would attempt to do some dramatic high kick on me. I loved those. The ones I watched the most were the dudes with bald heads or super short hair. Most of them fancied themselves to be fighters of some sort.

[Vajramusti]

They must have been doing WC.
:D
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sanjuro- you do have your cheap shot.

[SimonM]

I'm sorry LCP but I'm going to have to exercise a certain level of skepticism regarding your claims.

[Drake]

Proof is difficult to present. I guess that in my case, I have probably been involved in over 200 fights over about 30 or 35 years and although I have taken some real beatings I have never yet lost a fight. And being only 5'4" tall, I am speaking from experience when I say most men have a real sense of superiority when they can look down at the top of your head.
I have not practiced or trained my Wing Chun in well over40 years. Probably close to 50 years now. I felt that I was about as good as I would ever get. I have not lost it even now, and I do not have to do any particular stretch or execise to be able to do any of it even today at 67 years of age. If you are doing some other form of gung fu I suspect you will have to continue to do certain things in order to retain it, and even then age would exclude a great deal of it for you.
And even if the average man doesn't really know how to fight, it is not to say he can not inflict serious injury upon you. I have only fought one man that was gung fu trained and he was said to be the most dangerous mantis fighter in New Orleans area. I beat him so bad even my friends shunned me for being so brutal. Most of the people I have tussled with actually attempted to box with me. Some had taken karate classes for a little while and would attempt to do some dramatic high kick on me. I loved those. The ones I watched the most were the dudes with bald heads or super short hair. Most of them fancied themselves to be fighters of some sort.

Let me get this right... you are saying you are 200-0?

http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/Riiiiiiiiiiiight+_23d7a00c1f09ae59d64d0ccefa1ef698 .jpg

[Raipizo]

Let me get this right... you are saying you are 200-0?

http://static.fjcdn.com/comments/Riiiiiiiiiiiight+_23d7a00c1f09ae59d64d0ccefa1ef698 .jpg

Best record I've ever seen. But I've bested lee, I've fought everyone in existence. Sorry Lee :D

[bawang]

Proof is difficult to present. I guess that in my case, I have probably been involved in over 200 fights over about 30 or 35 years and although I have taken some real beatings I have never yet lost a fight. And being only 5'4" tall, I am speaking from experience when I say most men have a real sense of superiority when they can look down at the top of your head.
I have not practiced or trained my Wing Chun in well over40 years. Probably close to 50 years now. I felt that I was about as good as I would ever get. I have not lost it even now, and I do not have to do any particular stretch or execise to be able to do any of it even today at 67 years of age. If you are doing some other form of gung fu I suspect you will have to continue to do certain things in order to retain it, and even then age would exclude a great deal of it for you.
And even if the average man doesn't really know how to fight, it is not to say he can not inflict serious injury upon you. I have only fought one man that was gung fu trained and he was said to be the most dangerous mantis fighter in New Orleans area. I beat him so bad even my friends shunned me for being so brutal. Most of the people I have tussled with actually attempted to box with me. Some had taken karate classes for a little while and would attempt to do some dramatic high kick on me. I loved those. The ones I watched the most were the dudes with bald heads or super short hair. Most of them fancied themselves to be fighters of some sort.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/523467_460294713995222_1993077577_n.jpg

[hskwarrior]

gahhhhhhhd dahhhhham.....

bawang took the cake on that one...couldn't help but break out laughin....