Single leg post

[Gowgee]

I've just started single leg post training in the siu lim tao, and am having some challenges with standing in stance on the single leg.

I'm flat-footed, but have no problem doing this with my weight on the left leg, but am having incredible trouble on my right leg. Here's what I'm doing on the left leg:
I start in YGKYM, then shift to one leg with focus on (1) facing straight forward, (2) back straight and hips curled in, (3) left knee bent and slightly out, right knee hanging over it, (4) weight across the heel to balls of feet, gripping the ground with the toes.

When I switch to stand on my right leg, my waist is unstable, and even when I get it settled, my weight seems to go all over the sole of my foot.

Am I missing any key points here, and have any of you either experienced personally, or had students who have had trouble with this on the one foot?

[Gowgee]

Thanks for the reassuring advice, k gledhill!
It's good to know I may work through this - will report back in a few weeks.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Just curious, but just exactly what is your purpose. What are you hoping to achieve? A one footed stance if not safe.

[Happy Tiger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpWmalJEM0U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkdpYOByxBY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-_7jSdC7pc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ml7u5t84Rjg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQMhxvgJ7E8
hope you sort out your training issues. Single leg work has value.
Did you ever have an injury that affected your hips? I suffered a diving accident 30 odd years ago that left me with some challanges in that department too.

[Gowgee]

Just curious, but just exactly what is your purpose. What are you hoping to achieve? A one footed stance if not safe.

Hi LCP,

Thanks for your thoughts. Rather than using the single leg as a fighting stance, I`m aiming to use it for training to work on my stance for better structure on a single leg - to work out any lack of balance on both legs, train some core strength, and get ready to get to work on the kicks.

[Gowgee]

hope you sort out your training issues. Single leg work has value.
Did you ever have an injury that affected your hips? I suffered a diving accident 30 odd years ago that left me with some challanges in that department too.

Thanks for these, Happy Tiger!

I haven`t had any leg or hip injuries to date, but I do find my flat footedness and weak-ass muscle control around my ankles, knees and with controling my hips a real challenge at the moment. Ypu mentioned you`d had some hip injuries - how have you dealt with them in training?

Thanks for the videos too - it`s great to see what advanced practitioners can do with this stuff!

[Happy Tiger]

Thanks for these, Happy Tiger!

I haven`t had any leg or hip injuries to date, but I do find my flat footedness and weak-ass muscle control around my ankles, knees and with controling my hips a real challenge at the moment. Ypu mentioned you`d had some hip injuries - how have you dealt with them in training?

Thanks for the videos too - it`s great to see what advanced practitioners can do with this stuff!
My problem was unstable and closed 'Kua' or the Inguinal Fold due to a basically smashed pelvis on the left side.. After several years of exacerbating my inbalances I was very unstable on either leg but particularly my left. (extra drag since I'm southpaw). My sifu brought me through some great hei gong to gently bring my Kua into balance.Even though the actual injury was left, the right developed it's own problems and trigger points. Nowadays I don't notice it....unless I stop training for a long period. But sounds like you have a diferent challange. Do you find the pidgon toe stance at all stressful?

[Gowgee]

My problem was unstable and closed 'Kua' or the Inguinal Fold due to a basically smashed pelvis on the left side.. After several years of exacerbating my inbalances I was very unstable on either leg but particularly my left. (extra drag since I'm southpaw). My sifu brought me through some great hei gong to gently bring my Kua into balance.Even though the actual injury was left, the right developed it's own problems and trigger points. Nowadays I don't notice it....unless I stop training for a long period. But sounds like you have a diferent challange. Do you find the pidgon toe stance at all stressful?

Wow, that's great that you've been able to conquer that. While I'll appreciate it if it's a trade secret, could you give me any hints into what sort of hei gong you did?

I'm fairly comfortable with YJKYM now, and can stand with a space of about a fist between the knees for about 30 minutes. My ankles and knees feel stable in it, but when I do my single leg work, all the "stability" I thought I had flies out the window :D

[wingchunIan]

single leg work is a massive leap from YGKYM. Try holding a biu ma position whilst you do SNT. As you practice try loading the rear more nad more until 100% and then concentrate on lining up the bones of the leg and not relying on the muscles.

[Bacon]

Make sure your leg strength is up to par. What's your 1 rep max for squats?

Second stand in the yoga tree pose while you watch tv or a movie to increase balancing from the ankle.

If your leg strength is good and your balance is good you should have no problem.

[Gowgee]

Ian and Bacon,

Many thanks for your insights. I've realigned my hips this week, which seems to provide somewhat more balance, but my ankles and knees are still out of balance - more to work on.

I'm OK with squats - do three sets of thirty hindu squats of a morning - but really find the single leg post a challenge. Does the tree pose really work to build balance?

[Bacon]

I'm OK with squats - do three sets of thirty hindu squats of a morning - but really find the single leg post a challenge. Does the tree pose really work to build balance?

The tree pose will help with your balance. Work up to doing it for a half hour on one foot, then go to doing it with your eyes closed.

And no, bodyweights squats won't cut it. Go to the gym and learn how to squat using a barbell and work up to some heavier weights. Strength first, then work on your endurance for the single leg stance.

[wingchunIan]

In my experience squats will do absolutely nothing to help your YGKYM or your single leg standing ability. They are entirely different both in terms of muscles, ligaments and tendons recruited and the method of use. One is static the other dynamic. Yoga poses will help with your balance but I guess my challenge would be, if your goal is to stand in shape A with stability why would you practise standing in shape B? If you have the time to spend practicing the tree pose you could equally spend that time practicing your single leg.

[Bacon]

In my experience squats will do absolutely nothing to help your YGKYM or your single leg standing ability. They are entirely different both in terms of muscles, ligaments and tendons recruited and the method of use. One is static the other dynamic. Yoga poses will help with your balance but I guess my challenge would be, if your goal is to stand in shape A with stability why would you practise standing in shape B? If you have the time to spend practicing the tree pose you could equally spend that time practicing your single leg.

In actual use ygkym is dynamic and considering how many muscles squats recruit when properly with heavy weight...horse hockey.

Functional strength will help both with the static and the dynamic.

Tree pose helps with balancing from the hip and ankle. If the legs and back have been strengthened from the squat then all you really need to work on is balance. If your legs are strong and you can do tree pose for a 10+ minutes with your eyes closed single leg for siu lim tao is easy as pie.

[wingchunIan]

In actual use ygkym is dynamic and considering how many muscles squats recruit when properly with heavy weight...horse hockey.

Functional strength will help both with the static and the dynamic.

Tree pose helps with balancing from the hip and ankle. If the legs and back have been strengthened from the squat then all you really need to work on is balance. If your legs are strong and you can do tree pose for a 10+ minutes with your eyes closed single leg for siu lim tao is easy as pie.

Do you teach? or have you ever taught YGKYM to new students? I've taught it to many over the years who have been serious gym rats including one or two who were semi pro body builders. The fact that they can squat huge weights or pump out hundreds of reps stands for nothing after a few minutes in YGKYM because it works the muscles and ligaments in a completely different way. The nature of the muscle contraction is different and the direction of stress on ligaments and tendons is different. Fair play to you if you find squats help you but they've never helped me and have never helped any student that I've ever come across either. To each his own.

[Bacon]

Do you teach? or have you ever taught YGKYM to new students? I've taught it to many over the years who have been serious gym rats including one or two who were semi pro body builders. The fact that they can squat huge weights or pump out hundreds of reps stands for nothing after a few minutes in YGKYM because it works the muscles and ligaments in a completely different way. The nature of the muscle contraction is different and the direction of stress on ligaments and tendons is different. Fair play to you if you find squats help you but they've never helped me and have never helped any student that I've ever come across either. To each his own.

Yes.

And the single leg stance is a mostly isometric hold with a dynamic but through a very small range of motion, yes. It is different than a functional exercise going through full range of motion, yes, but I can guarantee if you have someone whose 1RM is 500 lbs they're going to be far better off than someone whose 1RM is 200 lbs.

Strength carries over from dynamic movements to isometrics but not really the other way around and once you take the single leg post out of isolation and actually use the power from it in chi sao and in sparring the squats will help. TBH i can't believe you're dumb enough as to argue against squats. Strength = good.
This really smacks of "omg we're so hardcore"

[wingchunIan]

Yes.

And the single leg stance is a mostly isometric hold with a dynamic but through a very small range of motion, yes. It is different than a functional exercise going through full range of motion, yes, but I can guarantee if you have someone whose 1RM is 500 lbs they're going to be far better off than someone whose 1RM is 200 lbs.

Strength carries over from dynamic movements to isometrics but not really the other way around and once you take the single leg post out of isolation and actually use the power from it in chi sao and in sparring the squats will help. TBH i can't believe you're dumb enough as to argue against squats. Strength = good.
This really smacks of "omg we're so hardcore"

Obviously I disagree (as do a number of personal trainers I know) but as you've had to resort to insults I can only figure that you lack the intellect for adult discussion, so there is no point in continuing this exchange of views.

[Bacon]

Obviously I disagree (as do a number of personal trainers I know) but as you've had to resort to insults I can only figure that you lack the intellect for adult discussion, so there is no point in continuing this exchange of views.

I didn't resort to insults. I called dumb, dumb. It wasn't "you're dumb" it was "your opinion is dumb because..." but if you want to take your ball and go home who am I to stop you.

[Sihing73]

I didn't resort to insults. I called dumb, dumb. It wasn't "you're dumb" it was "your opinion is dumb because..." but if you want to take your ball and go home who am I to stop you.

Bacon,

I took your words to be an insult, as I am sure I am not alone in this view.

It's funny how some consider one view to be dumb till someone else comes along and shows a different viewpoint. I am thinking of those who thought the world was round. A few hundred years ago they were thought to be "dumb". Then again there were those during the Dark Ages who thought bathing was bad, many thought their pov was also "dumb".

I doubt that anyone would argue against building functional strength. However, to think that strength is all one needs or that a 500 lb squat to excel in Chi Sau could be considered a "dumb" pov as well. I know of many gym rats who are much stronger than I am, however that strength did not necessarily equate to skill.

Just as to disdain strength is or could be considered "dumb" to overly rely or stress strength could also be just as "dumb".

[Gowgee]

Hi everyone,

So several weeks in, I'm still challenged with the single leg post on my right side, but have recognized that some of this was due to poor hip alignment on my right side. My right is slowly starting to catch up to my left. I've gone from being able to stand on the one foot for 5 - 10 seconds to about 10 - 20 seconds, and counting.

Thanks for all your insights and help!