"Jack of all trades, Master of None"

[tungmojingjung]

You know people use the phrase "Jack of all trades, Master of none", when referring to people who have studied various martial arts disciplines. Not meaning to turn a blind eye to Chinese culture, but the title Master, it really is ill fated to me, ill fated for this reason, it implies that you have mastered or completed this or that, that's it, you are complete, even to the extent of indiviual styles, you've finished it, received a title or certificate.

To me kung fu is a ever growing process, when will one ever really truly master it, there is always something new to explore, investigate, become knowledgeable about.

If anything, in my opinion we are learning to master ourselves, not this or that, because this or that is constantly changing and we must learn to be flexible and aborbent for the betterment of you the indiviual which reflects on the things we do, whether it be kung fu, cooking etc. Just my opinion.........

[Faruq]

That makes sense. So then the person who's learned all the master-level material of his system is still learning every day as he goes over that master-level material again and again, and arriving at different understandings of different elements of it every day. That's deep.

[tungmojingjung]

That's so true, even the most highly trained and experienced can pull something out today that perhaps wasn't seen yesterday and even gain a better understanding by something external to us, to better understand something internal to us. There is always something new, unless we become satisfied, and the desire has withered away......

[TenTigers]

every time I teach siu sup ji kuen-our first entry level form, I learn something. I've been teaching that for over 25 yrs.

every time I practice sam bo ging, I learn something new.

and then there's that student who says, "I know it."

[bawang]

and then there's that student who says, "I know it."

tie him up, make him kneel before the altar, beat him with staff 40 times. if he does not die, expel.

also make him wear the pointy hat

[David Jamieson]

Not the pointy hat!

You've gone too far!

[Syn7]

That makes sense. So then the person who's learned all the master-level material of his system is still learning every day as he goes over that master-level material again and again, and arriving at different understandings of different elements of it every day. That's deep.

Are you being sarcastic? I agree with the statement that we are always learning even when our teachers have run out of stuff to teach us but I wouldn't consider this a deep thought.

No disrespect, I just can't tell if you were being sarcastic or not.

[pazman]

What the **** is "master level" material?

[YouKnowWho]

you have mastered or completed this or that, that's it, you are complete, even to the extent of indiviual styles, you've finished it, received a title or certificate.
You receive a PhD degree not because you know everything, but because you know onething better than everybody else.

The definition of MA master is you have at least one good technique that's better than everybody else. If people want to learn that one technique, they have to come to you. You don't need to know everything.

[SPJ]

You receive a PhD degree not because you know everything, but because you know onething better than everybody else.

The definition of MA master is you have at least one good technique that's better than everybody else. If people want to learn that one technique, they have to come to you. You don't need to know everything.

Great post.

Not thing to add.

as the old saying goes:

focus on skillfulness of a few.

do not focus on how "many" skills you learn or master

Zai Jing

Bu Zai Duo.

:cool:

[tungmojingjung]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Bf-EW9asQ
Tung Mo Wun Hop Kuen's Cotton Fist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sYOgRVRmL4
Tung Mo Wun Hop Single Broadsword

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp9SsraO3Fs
Tung Mo Wun Hop GIm

[Lee Chiang Po]

Your assessment of the term, Master is accurate by western concepts, but when speaking of Chinese martial arts it means something else completely. It is a cultural thing. No matter your true skill level, when you take on a student he is obviously at a much lower skill level, and so you become his master. The student devotes himself to his teacher, which then is his master. It has nothing to do with his mastery of a fighting system as such, but it helps to at least have a very good knowledge of said system and a fairly high level of skill with the same.
Belt levels and such are just a way of measuring progress so that the dollar can be properly addressed.

[tungmojingjung]

I appreciate the constructive remarks, however I was speaking moreso "Master" in terms of mastering kung fu not in the acceptance of one's teacher as his Master. To me there are some people who are very gifted when it comes to fighting skill, some has never completed a single solitary system, hence the term"Jack of all trades, Master of none" comes to light, when their skills come from different sources.

My question is, does one need to complete a single style of kung fu to be proficient at it? I lean more to making sense of the concepts and principles of any given system or technique, then putting the concepts and principles to work, via application.

[ginosifu]

I have been studying 5 different styles for a long time now. Have I completed any of these systems? No. Have I reached a decent level of skill in each? I think so. My goal is to eventually complete each of the systems, but I am a perpetual student, I love learning and training. As TenTigers mentioned, every time I go back and visit a form or drill or technique, I learn somthing new or experience one of those "Why didn't I see that before" moments.

Master is just a word.... Reality is: You are what have trainined. If you trained for 5 years, that is what you. If you are a forms junky that has learned forms for 25 years.... that is what you are. If you have skill in your style... it will show. Titles are just cutural / civil words to seperate each of us into categories.

ginosifu

[Faruq]

Are you being sarcastic? I agree with the statement that we are always learning even when our teachers have run out of stuff to teach us but I wouldn't consider this a deep thought.

No disrespect, I just can't tell if you were being sarcastic or not.

No sarcasm. I was being serious.

[Eric Olson]

and then there's that student who says, "I know it."

Oh god, you just activated my PTSD...

[bawang]

Oh god, you just activated my PTSD...

hay babby

wat r u wearings

[MightyB]

I have been studying 5 different styles for a long time now. Have I completed any of these systems? No. Have I reached a decent level of skill in each? I think so. My goal is to eventually complete each of the systems, but I am a perpetual student, I love learning and training. As TenTigers mentioned, every time I go back and visit a form or drill or technique, I learn somthing new or experience one of those "Why didn't I see that before" moments.

Master is just a word.... Reality is: You are what have trainined. If you trained for 5 years, that is what you. If you are a forms junky that has learned forms for 25 years.... that is what you are. If you have skill in your style... it will show. Titles are just cutural / civil words to seperate each of us into categories.

ginosifu

I'm in a similar situation - 3 different / but similar styles since 1992 and I haven't mastered or reached the end of any one of them but I too feel I have a pretty good understanding of how to make them work. I'd like to complete the syllabus in the single TCMA style I study - but then again that only means learning all of the accepted body of forms - even though, I'd say that at this point, my understanding of that system is more "complete" then people who know 10, 15, 20 more forms than me in that system. The other two, I don't think there's really an end or master level - just various stages. Like you, I prefer to be a student for life.

[Empty_Cup]

In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king...

It's only when we stop seeking new knowledge that we become lost.

[SPJ]

Masters are reserved for a few very good people at any time.

Most of us are teachers and students at the same time.

When we teach, we also learn.

As the saying goes

When we learn, we know that there is more to know.

When we teach, we know that how difficult it is for others to learn.

Li ji or records of li.

Xue er zhi bu zhu.

Jiao er zhi kun.

Etc

Kong fu zi sayings

Confuscious said that.

:cool:

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is nothing wrong with specialization, and what is even better is specialization in various things.
:D