Weight training for TCMA

[YouKnowWho]

I like to keep this thread in the "Kung Fu Forum" session, because I'm only interesting in weight training for TCMA (not general weight training or body building).

Today when I worked out in the gym, I started to examine every single weight training that I did.

- Did my body start from relaxation all the time? This will require the weight to be dropped.
- Did I follow the TCMA training guideline that my speed should be a belt curve instead of constant or linear? This will restrict the maximum weight that I use.

I then looked around and observe others. I found out that most people did their weight training in constant speed.

- How do you prevent muscle pulling by using extream weight (such as 200 lb) with fast bell curve speed and acceslation?
- If you have developed constant speed weight training habit, will it contradict to your TCMA training goal that everything suppose to be explosive?

What's your thought? Do you even care about this level of detail at all?

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2254/bellcurve.jpg
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/358/constant.png
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/1944/linear.jpg

[-N-]

I do weights for strength training.

I do other stuff for training speed, explosiveness, and mobility.

No need to try to make one exercise accomplish all things.

[bawang]

i used to refuse lifting weights because i thought traditional kung fu doesnt lift weights.
when i found out that traditional kung fu actually lifted a lot of weights i began lifting the next day without hesitation.

lifting or not lifting weights is unimporant to me. what matters is traditional kung fu.

[Bacon]

Weight training for matrial arts is pretty easy. Build power and some explosiveness by working the big compound movements with progressively heavier weights: bench press, deadlift, overheadpress, barbell rows, clean and jerk, and squats
From there you have a base to move on to more plyometric exercises like woodcutting or tire and sledgehammer, rope climbing, shotput training, medicine ball tossing, and any numbers of others.

As long as you've include cardio and stretching you'll be on fit, strong, and explosive individual.

[Shaolin]

I do weights for strength training.

I do other stuff for training speed, explosiveness, and mobility.

No need to try to make one exercise accomplish all things.

I do the same thing. Personally I stick to Powerlifting and Olympic lifts for strength training. For speed, quickness and agility I do track and field training drills (a lot of the same drills you'd see NFL receivers and backs do). And then there's all of the martial arts training.

[bawang]

I do the same thing. Personally I stick to Powerlifting and Olympic lifts for strength training. For speed, quickness and agility I do track and field training drills (a lot of the

hoe much u squat bro

[Shaolin]

Doesn't matter. I'm not trying to become the next world strong man. I fight at welter weight (170lbs) and my opponents are going to come in between 180-190lbs on fight night after weigh ins. So it doesn't matter how much I can lift one time, it's how many times can I lift 200lbs on average?

[bawang]

but black whirlwind can squat 500 lb

dont u wanna be like black whirlwind

[Eric Olson]

I work my strength training into circuits. That's because its only worth having the strength if you can use it even when you're gassed. For example, try running stairs and after each set throw in some push ups, dips or presses. Your blood rushes to your arms, when your legs are screaming for it. This is the same kind of thing your body goes through when fighting.

[mickey]

Greetings,

For my own understanding, YouKnowWho:

Graph 1: Resistance bands or Nautilus equipment?

Graph 2: Free Weights?

Graph 3: A Resisting Opponent? Should be a little jagged.

As I mature, I find that resistance training becomes increasingly important. The purpose would be for the maintenance of strength.


mickey

[Shaolin]

but black whirlwind can squat 500 lb

dont u wanna be like black whirlwind

Is Black Whirlwind someone that blogs here? I've never heard of him/her.

[Frost]

I work my strength training into circuits. That's because its only worth having the strength if you can use it even when you're gassed. For example, try running stairs and after each set throw in some push ups, dips or presses. Your blood rushes to your arms, when your legs are screaming for it. This is the same kind of thing your body goes through when fighting.

then its not strength training its conditioning, and without a good strength base first this type of thing is worthless

[Frost]

Doesn't matter. I'm not trying to become the next world strong man. I fight at welter weight (170lbs) and my opponents are going to come in between 180-190lbs on fight night after weigh ins. So it doesn't matter how much I can lift one time, it's how many times can I lift 200lbs on average?

actually the higher your one rep max, the more you can do reps with a lower weight,
athlete 1 can max squat 250 pounds for him 190 would be 75% iof his max,
athlete 2 can squat 400 pounds 190 would be less than 50%... which of the above do you think will be lifting 190 for more reps?

[MightyB]

My normal MA routine keeps me pretty cut, so the lifting is more supplemental. I like to do the bench press because who doesn't want a good set of pecs? And then I do bent over dumbbell row http://www.exrx.net/AnimatedEx/BackGeneral/DBBentoverRow.gif
with as heavy as a weight as I can manage. I find that I need a lot of pull for Judo and Jiu Jitsu to set up throws and submissions and this seems to be a good exercise for that.

[Eric Olson]

then its not strength training its conditioning, and without a good strength base first this type of thing is worthless

So exercises like push ups, dips and overhead presses aren't strength training? (Can't wait to hear the response to this one)

EO

[Frost]

So exercises like push ups, dips and overhead presses aren't strength training? (Can't wait to hear the response to this one)

EO
I didnt say the exercises weren't strength exercises or couldnt be used for strength training i said what you were doing was conditioning not strength work

Cant wait to hear the response to that

[Eric Olson]

I didnt say the exercises weren't strength exercises or couldnt be used for strength training i said what you were doing was conditioning not strength work

Cant wait to hear the response to that

Strength training is a form of conditioning, so I'm not sure what your argument is.

[MightyB]

- Did my body start from relaxation all the time? This will require the weight to be dropped.
- Did I follow the TCMA training guideline that my speed should be a belt curve instead of constant or linear? This will restrict the maximum weight that I use.

I then looked around and observe others. I found out that most people did their weight training in constant speed.

- How do you prevent muscle pulling by using extream weight (such as 200 lb) with fast bell curve speed and acceslation?
- If you have developed constant speed weight training habit, will it contradict to your TCMA training goal that everything suppose to be explosive?

I think about this too (constant vs acceleration) in lifting. My main concern in weight training is safety first. No sense in giving yourself a permanent debilitating injury because of recklessness.

That being said - with the bent over dumbbell row that I posted above, I do try to explode through the contraction, and then have a nice controlled slow extension to the resting position. On the bench - same thing - slow as possible down, fast as possible up.

To me using a constant speed is bad for a martial artist - the same thing applies to running - a slow marathon pace isn't all that great for the ring - your better off doing a series of sprints - or indian running.

[Frost]

Strength training is a form of conditioning, so I'm not sure what your argument is.

strength work is not a form of conditioning, it effect the energy systems but minimally and certainly not optimally. Mixing strength and conditioning means you get poor results from both
That would be like a powerlifter saying I don’t need to do any conditioning because im working on my 1 rep max bench and hey that is conditioning

[MightyB]

strength work is not a form of conditioning, it effect the energy systems but minimally and certainly not optimally. Mixing strength and conditioning means you get poor results from both
That would be like a powerlifter saying I don’t need to do any conditioning because im working on my 1 rep max bench and hey that is conditioning

I'm not sure I understand this statement. It seems to me that a lot of weight lifters do some form of conditioning work like running and biking and they seem to be able to do both quite well.

[Eric Olson]

strength work is not a form of conditioning, it effect the energy systems but minimally and certainly not optimally.

You can make up your own definitions of words but to the rest of us conditioning means the following:

"the process of training to become physically fit by a regimen of exercise, diet, and rest; also : the resulting state of physical fitness"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conditioning

Strength training is a form of exercise and thus a type of conditioning. So your statement that strength training and conditioning are two different things makes no sense.

So what is your argument exactly?

[Frost]

I'm not sure I understand this statement. It seems to me that a lot of weight lifters do some form of conditioning work like running and biking and they seem to be able to do both quite well.

By mixing I mean trying to work strength and conditioning in the same workout at the same time
You won’t see a power lifter mixing the above in the same workout, ie a powerlifter wont do sprints between sets of squats they won’t work strength by doing squats pull ups and deadlifts circuit style with no rest. Strength training has very specific parameters which most strength athletes are aware
When working to build strength you even need to limit the type of conditioning you do and when you do it if you want to make real gains

[MightyB]

By mixing I mean trying to work strength and conditioning in the same workout at the same time
You won’t see a power lifter mixing the above in the same workout, ie a powerlifter wont do sprints between sets of squats they won’t work strength by doing squats pull ups and deadlifts circuit style with no rest. Strength training has very specific parameters which most strength athletes are aware
When working to build strength you even need to limit the type of conditioning you do and when you do it if you want to make real gains

Got it - and agree.

[Frost]

Originally Posted by Eric Olson (Post 1183588)
I work my strength training into circuits.

This is what you said, and it is plainly the wrong way to go round building strength

Its why every top MMA coach has their guys do specific strength days, why every professional sports team has separate strength and conditioning phases and why no powerlifter or strength athlete will train this way


Now you can say im talking about conditioning, or this form of physical training, but the fact remains you stated you are building your strength through circuits and this doesn’t work unless you are as weak as a kitten

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is a reason why modern sport venacular is "strength AND conditioning" when they refer to programs.
Just like in MA when we say conditioning we don't JUST mean just "cardio" but also the forging process.
We have to be clear what TYPE of conditioning we are talking about and, typiclaly, when people think conditioning for a sport they thing the "cardio-vascualr" aspect and that is what modern sport terminology goes with.

[wenshu]

actually the higher your one rep max, the more you can do reps with a lower weight,
athlete 1 can max squat 250 pounds for him 190 would be 75% iof his max,
athlete 2 can squat 400 pounds 190 would be less than 50%... which of the above do you think will be lifting 190 for more reps?

This is misleading because you don't account for anyone who is training 190lbs at high reps.

Obeastly World's Strongest Man types are always going on and on about how you can't build maximal strength with high rep work outs.

Oh but you can totally build endurance with low rep work outs.

The last time I encountered double standards this bad was when I bickered with my girlfriend this morning. Explains the concomitant bitterness.

[Frost]

This is misleading because you don't account for anyone who is training 190lbs at high reps.

Obeastly World's Strongest Man types are always going on and on about how you can't build maximal strength with high rep work outs.

Oh but you can totally build endurance with low rep work outs.

The last time I encountered double standards this bad was when I bickered with my girlfriend this morning. Explains the concomitant bitterness.

Actually strength is better build by low reps and high weights, ask any pro coach who trains guys for the the 225pound bench test and most will tell you they increase max strength first rather than just keep trying to do more reps at 225

Its a point all strength athletes, most S and C coaches for pro teams and other agree on, but hey you know better right :)

[Scott R. Brown]

A few things here:

You CAN build strength doing circuits. It just isn't the most efficient means of developing maximum strength. All you need to do is increase your weights over time as with any other weight training program.

Seldom in life, even for most athletes, is maximum strength necessary.

While it is true that a person who can squat 400 lbs. for 1-3 reps can do higher reps at 200 lbs. depending upon the person somewhere between 20-40 reps, generally speaking he will not be doing much walking the next day. This is because you use the muscles metabolic system differently for high and low rep programs. While the person who, as a habit, squats 200 lbs. for 20 reps can't necessarily squat 400 lbs. He will be walking the next day. ( From doing the 20 reps of squats, NOT the 400 lbs. or a set of maximum squats, and unless he trains both ends as a habit.)

So it depends upon what one's goals are. A maximum strength person rarely has staying power over time and a strength endurance guy rarely has maximum strength, and but then again, in life, one rarely requires maximum strength.

The goal should be to develop the correct balance for the requirements and goals of your specific activity.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I like to keep this thread in the "Kung Fu Forum" session, because I'm only interesting in weight training for TCMA (not general weight training or body building).


Just doing sport specific training is wrong and will get you injured as you will develop strength imbalances. For maximum results from a performance perspective, you absolutely must periodize. Trying to always stay in peak competition shape will result in less fitness than if you set a plan to improve various attributes at different times around the year.

[wenshu]

Actually strength is better build by low reps and high weights, ask any pro coach who trains guys for the the 225pound bench test and most will tell you they increase max strength first rather than just keep trying to do more reps at 225

Its a point all strength athletes, most S and C coaches for pro teams and other agree on, but hey you know better right :)

You would have been better served by that impotent appeal to authority if I had actually made any claim about what is better. I didn't say **** about whether or not high reps is a good idea for strength building. (I actually think it's a horrible idea)

I was addressing the abortion of logic and intuition that posits that just because someone can max out at a high weight they will naturally be able to do high reps with a lower weight. They could certainly do a lot but not more than someone who specifically trains in that context.

Since oversimplified analogies are so popular around here.
It's like a sprinter vs a marathon runner, I'm sure the sprinter can run a marathon just fine, they'd certainly do a **** sight better than 99.9% of novices and weekend warriors, likewise a marathon runner in the 100m dash.

I don't need to drop the names of every track and field coach I've been within a twenty mile radius of to know who is going to win when you match them up against each other in each respective context.

[YouKnowWho]

I may use the following 3 weight equipments different from others.

I like to use my arms to twist this machine with 180 lb weight 60 times clockwise and 60 times counter clockwise. 60 is always my favor number. I like to train "arms rotation" movement. There are not many machines in the gym designed for that purpose.

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6186/rotarytorso.jpg

I also like to use my lower leg to back lift, and use upper leg to front lift 100 lb on this machine 60 times on each leg.

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1774/legmachine.jpg

This is my major training equipment. I like to work on 60 lb weight in a total of 340 pulls in 11 different ways.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7906/weightpulley5.jpg

[Eric Olson]

This is what you said, and it is plainly the wrong way to go round building strength

If you are doing the exact same strength building exercise then I see no qualitative difference whether its between spurts of cardio or not. Its the same exercise. The difference is you are being asked to perform it in a situation that would mirror real combat, when you're gassed.


Its why every top MMA coach has their guys do specific strength days,

That's fine if you have the time to break out days or hours to train specific things. I suppose they break out days just for boxing or just for rolling or to train strength in their left toe. We're not all professional athletes and the most bang for your buck will come from the training the way i mentioned.


why every professional sports team has separate strength and conditioning phases and why no powerlifter or strength athlete will train this way

I think training to fight requires a particular kind of training. You have to be able to call on strength when you're already gasping for breath. What other sports require that? Sports like powerlifting have no place in this discussion because that's just strength for strength's sake.



Now you can say im talking about conditioning, or this form of physical training, but the fact remains you stated you are building your strength through circuits and this doesn’t work unless you are as weak as a kitten

See my first point. You assume I'm talking about high-rep exercises. It could just as easily be low rep, high weight. Or assuming we're talking about body weight, it could be a one-arm push up vs. regular push ups.

[Frost]

If you are doing the exact same strength building exercise then I see no qualitative difference whether its between spurts of cardio or not. Its the same exercise. The difference is you are being asked to perform it in a situation that would mirror real combat, when you're gassed. .

if you really think you need to do some actual research on the subject, seriously



That's fine if you have the time to break out days or hours to train specific things. I suppose they break out days just for boxing or just for rolling or to train strength in their left toe. We're not all professional athletes and the most bang for your buck will come from the training the way i mentioned. .

thats why they invented this thing called periodization a few decades ago. :)


I think training to fight requires a particular kind of training. You have to be able to call on strength when you're already gasping for breath. What other sports require that? Sports like powerlifting have no place in this discussion because that's just strength for strength's sake.
Lets see, wrestling, rugby, OZ rules football need i go on, and they all use powerlfting/strength training cycles
powerlifting is the best way to build maximum strength, what you use that strength for is up to you





See my first point. You assume I'm talking about high-rep exercises. It could just as easily be low rep, high weight. Or assuming we're talking about body weight, it could be a one-arm push up vs. regular push ups.

Nope im assuming you are doing them circuit style with little rest, in which case doesnt matter how you are doing the exercises and the rep range you are using its still a silly way to build strength

[Eric Olson]

if you really think you need to do some actual research on the subject, seriously


thats why they invented this thing called periodization a few decades ago. :)

Periodization really has nothing to do with it. Throw in high-rep, low-weight exercise in between your cardio if you like and only do your strength stuff once a month. It really makes no difference.



Lets see, wrestling, rugby, OZ rules football need i go on, and they all use powerlfting/strength training cycles
powerlifting is the best way to build maximum strength, what you use that strength for is up to you

You know who does train the way I'm talking about. The US military. Google "readiness training". Or watch the Ninja Warrior challenge on TV. These things require strength and endurance.



Nope im assuming you are doing them circuit style with little rest, in which case doesnt matter how you are doing the exercises and the rep range you are using its still a silly way to build strength

It's a good way to train for fighting/combat.

[Frost]

Periodization really has nothing to do with it. Throw in high-rep, low-weight exercise in between your cardio if you like and only do your strength stuff once a month. It really makes no difference.



You know who does train the way I'm talking about. The US military. Google "readiness training". Or watch the Ninja Warrior challenge on TV. These things require strength and endurance.



It's a good way to train for fighting/combat.

nope sparring is a good way to train for combat, and periodization has everything to do with it

[Eric Olson]

nope sparring is a good way to train for combat, and periodization has everything to do with it

Just so people aren't confused about periodization (which gets thrown around a lot on these boards like its some magic word), it's basically a resistance training program followed over the course of about a month. Every week you change the type of sets that you are doing so the muscle is constantly challenged. For example, here's program that I was following (based on the book "You Are Your Own Gym", which is all body weight and BTW the author trains Navy Seals):

Week 1: Ladders
Week 2: Power sets
Week 3: Stappers
Week 4: Tabatas
Week 5: Rest

What does this have to do with integrating cardio in between your sets? Nothing.

[wenshu]

Just so people aren't confused about periodization (which gets thrown around a lot on these boards like its some magic word), it's basically a resistance training program followed over the course of about a month. Every week you change the type of sets that you are doing so the muscle is constantly challenged. For example, here's program that I was following (based on the book "You Are Your Own Gym", which is all body weight and BTW the author trains Navy Seals):

Week 1: Ladders
Week 2: Power sets
Week 3: Stappers
Week 4: Tabatas
Week 5: Rest

What does this have to do with integrating cardio in between your sets? Nothing.

No, Eric Olson.

Exercise science from late night basic cable infomercials is a bad idea.

what-does-periodization-mean-and-how-does-it-work (http://www.trifuel.com/training/triathlon-training/what-does-periodization-mean-and-how-does-it-work)

[Eric Olson]

No, Eric Olson.

Exercise science from late night basic cable infomercials is a bad idea.

what-does-periodization-mean-and-how-does-it-work (http://www.trifuel.com/training/triathlon-training/what-does-periodization-mean-and-how-does-it-work)

So when is the "season" for fighting? Sorry, you have to be ready all the time. That's why you'd be better off looking at how the military trains rather than athletes or sport fighters.

Not to say you can't incorporate periodization but its done in micro-cycles, not over the course of an entire year.

[wenshu]

Then stick to Beachbody© p90x©, teh muscle confusioning, Crossfit bull**** and you can reap the benefits of perptual novice gains and being weak as **** while deluding yourself that you train like elite military and LEO operators.

[Drake]

Then stick to Beachbody© p90x©, teh muscle confusioning, Crossfit bull**** and you can reap the benefits of perptual novice gains and being weak as **** while deluding yourself that you train like elite military and LEO operators.

Actually, the military has a ridiculous love for crossfit right now, especially in the SF and Infantry world. I did CF while training up with my team before we went to Afghanistan. I didn't like it, on a personal level, but you can't deny it works amazingly well for doing the sort of tasks we do.

So yeah, if you are doing CF or something similar, your training IS pretty similar to what elites use. However, that's just the fitness aspect.

[Drake]

And I've never met a weak CF person. They usually max the APFT in the Army with ease.

[wenshu]

Actually, the military has a ridiculous love for crossfit right now, especially in the SF and Infantry world. I did CF while training up with my team before we went to Afghanistan. I didn't like it, on a personal level, but you can't deny it works amazingly well for doing the sort of tasks we do.

So yeah, if you are doing CF or something similar, your training IS pretty similar to what elites use. However, that's just the fitness aspect.

Is getting injured needlessly one of those tasks? Cause it's a great way to do that.

I'm aware of the popularity of Crossfit in the military and LEO circles, but civilians who do Crossfit are still deluding themselves if they think they train like elite warriors.

"Warriors kill ****, the only thing you kill is exercise science and the board short display at Target."

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=42448

How much of the Crossfit in the military actually follows the mainpage Crossfit "programming"? When Crossfit works it's generally because people apply actual periodization principles to it and then it's really nothing more than HIIT and calisthenics which has been around a helluva lot longer than Crossfit. Even the "atheletes" who win those stupid calisthenics "competitions" admit readily that they don't follow the original Crossfit "programming".

[Drake]

Is getting injured needlessly one of those tasks? Cause it's a great way to do that.

I'm aware of the popularity of Crossfit in the military and LEO circles, but civilians who do Crossfit are still deluding themselves if they think they train like elite warriors.

"Warriors kill ****, the only thing you kill is exercise science and the board short display at Target."

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=42448

How much of the Crossfit in the military actually follows the mainpage Crossfit "programming"? When Crossfit works it's generally because people apply actual periodization principles to it and then it's really nothing more than HIIT and calisthenics which has been around a helluva lot longer than Crossfit. Even the "atheletes" who win those stupid calisthenics "competitions" admit readily that they don't follow the original Crossfit "programming".

Considering we were given a free membership to a local crossfit gym, I'd say pretty **** close. Most of the guys I work with follow the website pretty closely, and are always talking about the WoD.

It's high intensity and develops very good explosive strength, as well as all around comprehensive fitness. You don't have to like it, but arguing that it's bad for you is pretty dumb. I've seen many more people injured through other exercise programs than through CF. As far as I've seen, out of the dozens of those I know doing CF, only one has ever been hurt... and that was me, and it was my fault.

[wenshu]

And I've never met a weak CF person. They usually max the APFT in the Army with ease.

That's not really a good indicator of strength.

Didn't they hobble the everloving **** out of those standards to account for morbidly obese people?

[IronFist]

actually the higher your one rep max, the more you can do reps with a lower weight,

Not necessarily.

Depends on how you train and SAID.

If you do exclusively high weight and low reps for an extended period of time, you lose endurance at the lower weights because you don't train it.

I remember following a strength specific program for a few months exclusively and was happy when I could bench 225 x 5 for the first time.

Imagine my surprise when I could no longer bench 135 x 12, something that I could easily do before I started.

Similarly, training a lot of lower weight higher rep stuff doesn't mean you're stronger.

A guy who can bench 135 x 50 doesn't necessarily have a higher 1RM than a guy who can bench 135 x 10.

[wenshu]

Considering we were given a free membership to a local crossfit gym, I'd say pretty **** close. Most of the guys I work with follow the website pretty closely, and are always talking about the WoD.

It's high intensity and develops very good explosive strength, as well as all around comprehensive fitness. You don't have to like it, but arguing that it's bad for you is pretty dumb. I've seen many more people injured through other exercise programs than through CF. As far as I've seen, out of the dozens of those I know doing CF, only one has ever been hurt... and that was me, and it was my fault.

You should read up on it a little more.

Achilles tears from high rep box jumps, SLAP tears from those ridiculous "pull ups".

The incidence rates for those two injuries alone are ridiculous.

[Drake]

You should read up on it a little more.

Achilles tears from high rep box jumps, SLAP tears from those ridiculous "pull ups".

The incidence rates for those two injuries alone are ridiculous.

Do you have any sources to back up those assertions?

[IronFist]

Crossfit has some good ideas, but they do seem to have a lot of injuries, seem to glorify rhabdomyolysis, and there seems to be a lot of dbag elitist attitudes in that group.

Not that BBing and PLing don't have their share of dbags.

They've popularized the Olympic lifts which is cool. Now they're something everyone can do rather than just Olympic lifters.

[wenshu]

lmgtfy (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=crossfit+achilles+rupture)

[Drake]

That's not really a good indicator of strength.

Didn't they hobble the everloving **** out of those standards to account for morbidly obese people?

No, they didn't. Weight control standards and the APFT are governed by two totally different manuals. In fact, one is a regulations and the other is a field manual. For a young man, they have to run the 2-mile in 15:54 (I think). And that's the bare minimum. They'd likely be put on remedial PT after that, passing or not.

The APFT standards have remained unchanged for years. And morbidly obese people are removed from service if they fail to show progress in the weight control program.

[wenshu]

Several pages of results when searching Crossfit's own message boards alone. (https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=site:board.crossfit.com+achilles+rupture&oq=site:board.crossfit.com+achilles+rupture&gs_l=serp.12...58136.58136.1.76877.8.7.1.0.0.0.162 .558.6j1.7.0.les%3Beqn%2Crate_low%3D0-025%2Crate_high%3D0-025%2Cmin_length%3D2%2Ccconf%3D1-0%2Csecond_pass%3Dfalse%2Cnum_suggestions%3D1%2Cig nore_bad_origquery%3Dtrue..0.0...1c.QkT3dNj6s5k&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=8171fb77536c4765&biw=1920&bih=955)

[Drake]

lmgtfy (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=crossfit+achilles+rupture)

That wasn't a source. There weren't stats... just Google links to people arguing about whether or not people get achilles tendon ruptures doing CF.

I'll make it more clear. Please show me a peer-reviewed study showing a correlation between CF workouts and injuries. I won't even ask for it to be compared to other workouts.

[Drake]

Several pages of results when searching Crossfit's own message boards alone. (https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=site:board.crossfit.com+achilles+rupture&oq=site:board.crossfit.com+achilles+rupture&gs_l=serp.12...58136.58136.1.76877.8.7.1.0.0.0.162 .558.6j1.7.0.les%3Beqn%2Crate_low%3D0-025%2Crate_high%3D0-025%2Cmin_length%3D2%2Ccconf%3D1-0%2Csecond_pass%3Dfalse%2Cnum_suggestions%3D1%2Cig nore_bad_origquery%3Dtrue..0.0...1c.QkT3dNj6s5k&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=8171fb77536c4765&biw=1920&bih=955)

Please read my post. I want stats... not message boards. That doesn't mean anything.

[IronFist]

Let me answer the original questions in this thread:


I like to keep this thread in the "Kung Fu Forum" session, because I'm only interesting in weight training for TCMA (not general weight training or body building).

How is "weight training for TCMA" different from "general weight training"?


Today when I worked out in the gym, I started to examine every single weight training that I did.

- Did my body start from relaxation all the time? This will require the weight to be dropped.

You don't have to be perfectly relaxed before each rep. In fact, that is a bad idea if you're doing something like bench press :D

Tension is your friend. I don't understand why TCMA people are so afraid of tension. It's not like you walk around flexed all day. The more tension you use in the gym, the stronger you will get. The more tension your surrounding muscles use, the stronger all of them will be. It's like the example where you make a fist using just your forearm/hand muscles. Then you make the tightest fist you can and what happens, your biceps, triceps, shoulder, chest and even abs all tense up, too. Why? Because it allows you to make a tighter fist. In very un-scientific terms, muscles can give "extra tension" to their neighboring muscles which results in more overall output.

Do this. It makes you stronger.


- Did I follow the TCMA training guideline that my speed should be a belt curve instead of constant or linear? This will restrict the maximum weight that I use.

At your level, just worry about smooth, even movements. I've never heard a TCMA guideline that speed should be a bell curve, but we're talking weight lifting, and while there are different theories about speed, you will progress just fine using constant speed.


I then looked around and observe others. I found out that most people did their weight training in constant speed.

- How do you prevent muscle pulling by using extream weight (such as 200 lb) with fast bell curve speed and acceslation?

Well if you're using a bellcurve speed wouldn't the fastest part be in the middle, and you'd be going slow again by the time you get to the end of the rep?


- If you have developed constant speed weight training habit, will it contradict to your TCMA training goal that everything suppose to be explosive?

No, because weight training is not TCMA.

Weight training gives your muscles the potential to generate more tension.

The ability to generate more tension makes your MA techniques stronger.

That is why you weight train (and the health benefits).


What's your thought? Do you even care about this level of detail at all?

No. 95% of the non-competitive weight lifting population will be served just fine by constant speed weight lifting.

Do what is comfortable. A few seconds up, a few seconds down. Maintain tension throughout the entire set.

TCMA principles don't apply to weight lifting.

edit - aren't you the guy who does all those "TCMA specific" cable exercises, or am I thinking of someone else? I don't you don't believe me, but those really aren't doing you much good :o

[wenshu]

That wasn't a source. There weren't stats... just Google links to people arguing about whether or not people get achilles tendon ruptures doing CF.

I'll make it more clear. Please show me a peer-reviewed study showing a correlation between CF workouts and injuries. I won't even ask for it to be compared to other workouts.

For whatever reason researchers aren't studying Crossfit.

Internet search result indices are technically statistics.

In this case it's statistics of personal anecdotes and it's certainly not scientific but pages of results of people who are posting about their own personal experience with Achilles ruptures is a pretty good indicator of an abnormally high rate of frequency.

[Drake]

For whatever reason researchers aren't studying Crossfit.

Internet search result indices are technically statistics.

In this case it's statistics of personal anecdotes and it's certainly not scientific but pages of results of people who are posting about their own personal experience with Achilles ruptures is a pretty good indicator of an abnormally high rate of frequency.

A statistic of what? Certainly not injury rates.

Personal anecdotes aren't valid, either. There's a lot of urban legends and misinformation out there to make anecdotes one of the worst sources in terms of quantitative data. Google the word porn, and tell me what the findings mean. Nothing, really.

[Scott R. Brown]

The difference between training for sport and training for war was understood as far back as Alexander the Great and probably further. Xenonphon wrote about training for war.

During one of their drinking parties one of Alexander's friend's was arguing with a Pankration athlete over who was more manly/warrior-like.

The argument escalated until there was a challenge. The pankration guy won in his field of expertise and the warrior won in his. After the Pankration fighter beat the soldier, the soldier ran him through with a spear!

End of story!:p

[bawang]

After the Pankration fighter beat the soldier, the soldier ran him through with a spear!



no, they framed him for theft.

[Frost]

Just so people aren't confused about periodization (which gets thrown around a lot on these boards like its some magic word), it's basically a resistance training program followed over the course of about a month. Every week you change the type of sets that you are doing so the muscle is constantly challenged. For example, here's program that I was following (based on the book "You Are Your Own Gym", which is all body weight and BTW the author trains Navy Seals):

Week 1: Ladders
Week 2: Power sets
Week 3: Stappers
Week 4: Tabatas
Week 5: Rest

What does this have to do with integrating cardio in between your sets? Nothing.

oh lovely so thats where you get your info, seriously stay away from thos late night infos

[Frost]

Then stick to Beachbody© p90x©, teh muscle confusioning, Crossfit bull**** and you can reap the benefits of perptual novice gains and being weak as **** while deluding yourself that you train like elite military and LEO operators.

umm this lol

[Frost]

And I've never met a weak CF person. They usually max the APFT in the Army with ease.

i have thats why they brought in louie simmons and dave tate to teach them how to train for strength
original cross fit was terrible for strength training, cross fit is good for well, training for the cross fit games

Using cross fit for martial arts conditioning is silly (if its good for the military i have no idea, the fact they give free memberships and i believe free instructor training might have something to do with their popularity in those circles),we are talking about training for fighting not military engagement, profiling a fighters needs is much easier than profiling what an infintary man might need so there is no need to do all that WOD rubbish, it wont get a fighter in good fighting shape or strong.....just look at the fighters they used to sell the product back in the day to the MMA crowd , BJ penn and cabbage for lords sake

[HumbleWCGuy]

Actually, the military has a ridiculous love for crossfit right now, especially in the SF and Infantry world. I did CF while training up with my team before we went to Afghanistan. I didn't like it, on a personal level, but you can't deny it works amazingly well for doing the sort of tasks we do.

So yeah, if you are doing CF or something similar, your training IS pretty similar to what elites use. However, that's just the fitness aspect.

Crossfit does basically work, but I have a few issues with it

1. When did doing conditioning drills all of a sudden become Crossfit's exclusive domain?
2. It is taught by unqualified gurus.
3. They claim that CrossFit, builds more muscle than a standard weight training program.
4. They will show people doing all kinds of tremendous things in their promos; however, people got that way from gymnastics, real Olympic lifting, and standard weight training not CrossfFt.
5. Peak fitness is developed by creating a workout schedule that balances sport-specific training and standard weight training. Just focusing on one or the other will limit your progress. Besides, "CrossFit" is too hard on your joints to do all the time unless you weigh 120 lbs.
6. Those pullups are ridiculous.

[HumbleWCGuy]

i have thats why they brought in louie simmons and dave tate to teach them how to train for strength
original cross fit was terrible for strength training, cross fit is good for well, training for the cross fit games

Using cross fit for martial arts conditioning is silly (if its good for the military i have no idea, the fact they give free memberships and i believe free instructor training might have something to do with their popularity in those circles),we are talking about training for fighting not military engagement, profiling a fighters needs is much easier than profiling what an infintary man might need so there is no need to do all that WOD rubbish, it wont get a fighter in good fighting shape or strong.....just look at the fighters they used to sell the product back in the day to the MMA crowd , BJ penn and cabbage for lords sake

CrossFit has a serious credibility problem. It shows in their videos. The squatting is horrible and not a one of the instructors has a clue on how to correct it from top to bottom. Some instructors seem to squat okay because of luck as much as anything.

They had to bring in Louie and other qualified people before someone litigated against them.

[HumbleWCGuy]

And I've never met a weak CF person. They usually max the APFT in the Army with ease.

Are they really CrossFitters? There is this trend to call any type of conditioning CrossFit, but it is really just good ol' fashioned working out with a few ideas from the CrossFit website.

I have seen a lot of guys around the Gym come to the conclusion that "CrossFitting" is basically a fad. They realized that after doing it for so long that they would actually start to get out of shape. It has to be balanced with regular weight training.

[Frost]

CrossFit has a serious credibility problem. It shows in their videos. The squatting is horrible and not a one of the instructors has a clue on how to correct it from top to bottom. Some instructors seem to squat okay because of luck as much as anything.

They had to bring in Louie and other qualified people before someone litigated against them.

crossfit has a lot of problems credibility is but one lol,

but give gleason his due hes made a fortune out if it and got major sponsorship for his games from rebook is it? ...i bet pavel is so jealous

[HumbleWCGuy]

crossfit has a lot of problems credibility is but one lol,


It takes more than one post to go into them all. :)

[Frost]

It takes more than one post to go into them all. :)

true OL lifts for high reps with bad form, high rep deadlifts in a fatigued state, the use of tabatas research to justify everything under the sun being done for 20 secs on 10 secs off...we could fill a forum lol (and people have!)

[HumbleWCGuy]

true OL lifts for high reps with bad form, high rep deadlifts in a fatigued state, the use of tabatas research to justify everything under the sun being done for 20 secs on 10 secs off...we could fill a forum lol (and people have!)

You have my vote for being the moderator of the, "What's wrong with CrossFit" forum.

[YouKnowWho]

edit - aren't you the guy who does all those "TCMA specific" cable exercises, or am I thinking of someone else? I don't you don't believe me, but those really aren't doing you much good :o

Yes, I'm that person. Since I started this thread. I prefer to put myself in "listen" mode. My opinion is not important in this thread.

To answer your last question, I use "TCMA specific cable exercises" to develop my "shaking" ability. I can't develop this ability by doing solo drill into the thin air. I also don't have training partner 24/7.

[Drake]

Well, from what I've seen, it is incredibly effective.

I don't think it has the market on high intensity workout, but like with anything else, it is A way.

Until there's research to directly correlate injuries, comparative exercises, and other things in the realm of sports medicine, we're all talking out our asses in terms of definitive proof.

I'm just throwing out my perspective, and from what I've seen, the guys are in great shape, much unlike so many pot-bellied, easily winded TCMA instructors I've seen.

If we're all about adaption, it's at least worth a look and a test before instantly classifying it as rubbish because it runs counter to what we've known.

CF does get people into good shape. As for making a fighter out of you, that's dumb. It's for fitness. If you think you'll come out of CF as a fighter, you are an idiot. That's like running marathons thinking it'll make you a better airline pilot.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Well, from what I've seen, it is incredibly effective.

I don't think it has the market on high intensity workout, but like with anything else, it is A way.

Until there's research to directly correlate injuries, comparative exercises, and other things in the realm of sports medicine, we're all talking out our asses in terms of definitive proof.

I'm just throwing out my perspective, and from what I've seen, the guys are in great shape, much unlike so many pot-bellied, easily winded TCMA instructors I've seen.

If we're all about adaption, it's at least worth a look and a test before instantly classifying it as rubbish because it runs counter to what we've known.

CF does get people into good shape. As for making a fighter out of you, that's dumb. It's for fitness. If you think you'll come out of CF as a fighter, you are an idiot. That's like running marathons thinking it'll make you a better airline pilot.
it sounds to me like you aren't sure about what some so called Cross Fitters are doing. But, you are happy to take it on faith that they do a "Strict Crossfit Routine" developed by an unqualified guru, and they have tremendous fitness because of it. It sounds like CrossFit is perfect for you. If you are in the military, you might want to start figuring out who is on steroids and who isn't too.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Well, from what I've seen, it is incredibly effective.

I don't think it has the market on high intensity workout, but like with anything else, it is A way.

Until there's research to directly correlate injuries, comparative exercises, and other things in the realm of sports medicine, we're all talking out our asses in terms of definitive proof.

I'm just throwing out my perspective, and from what I've seen, the guys are in great shape, much unlike so many pot-bellied, easily winded TCMA instructors I've seen.

If we're all about adaption, it's at least worth a look and a test before instantly classifying it as rubbish because it runs counter to what we've known.

CF does get people into good shape. As for making a fighter out of you, that's dumb. It's for fitness. If you think you'll come out of CF as a fighter, you are an idiot. That's like running marathons thinking it'll make you a better airline pilot.
It's sort of funny, if this were a boxing forum and some beer gut boxing coach with no special notoriety told you something about fitness, you would swallow it hook line and sinker. Again, I think that CrossFit is an excellent choice for you.

[Eric Olson]

Actually, the military has a ridiculous love for crossfit right now, especially in the SF and Infantry world. I did CF while training up with my team before we went to Afghanistan. I didn't like it, on a personal level, but you can't deny it works amazingly well for doing the sort of tasks we do.

So yeah, if you are doing CF or something similar, your training IS pretty similar to what elites use. However, that's just the fitness aspect.

Haha...Wenshu just got spanked :D I hope that didn't sting too bad.

[Drake]

it sounds to me like you aren't sure about what some so called Cross Fitters are doing. But, you are happy to take it on faith that they do a "Strict Crossfit Routine" developed by an unqualified guru, and they have tremendous fitness because of it. It sounds like CrossFit is perfect for you. If you are in the military, you might want to start figuring out who is on steroids and who isn't too.

First off, stop making assumptions, especially about me, to suit your argument. It's obnoxious. Second, steroids are illegal and tested. Even ephedrine is banned. Thanks for the advice about staying alert, because I certainly needed military hints and tips *sarcasm*.

I know a lot of people, including senior officers, who conduct crossfit daily, and swear by it. These guys are in amazing shape, something I CAN'T say about the TCMA community, and always score ridiculously high on the APFT. End of story.

Knock off the ad hominem attacks. It's childish.

[Drake]

It's sort of funny, if this were a boxing forum and some beer gut boxing coach with no special notoriety told you something about fitness, you would swallow it hook line and sinker. Again, I think that CrossFit is an excellent choice for you.

I would? Why would you say that? Oh, yeah, you put words in my mouth. Thanks, I appreciate that.

Must be sagelike advice coming from the overweight, out of shape WC community...

[YouKnowWho]

crossfit ...

Just try to understand the definition of "crossfit". Will you conside to throw a 120 lb dummy 300 times over your head to be "crossfit"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sl1cRxR2Fc

Here is my question for everybody.

If you only have 2 hours training time daily, you can only have 1 of the following 2 choices (assume you can't have both choices for the sake of discussion):

1. Stay home and throw/lift/pull/push your 120 lb dummy.
2. Go to gym to work out.

Which training do you prefer and why?

[Frost]

Haha...Wenshu just got spanked :D I hope that didn't sting too bad.

nope he didnt but your backside must be sore lol

[Drake]

Just try to understand the definition of "crossfit". Will you conside to throw a 120 lb dummy 300 times over your head to be "crossfit"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sl1cRxR2Fc

Here is my question for everybody.

If you only have 2 hours training time daily, you can only have 1 of the following 2 choices (assume you can't have both choices for the sake of discussion):

1. Stay home and throw/lift/pull/push your 120 lb dummy.
2. Go to gym to work out.

Which training do you prefer and why?

I run and lift weights. Running takes priority for me.

[-N-]

Just try to understand the definition of "crossfit". Will you conside to throw a 120 lb dummy 300 times over your head to be "crossfit"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sl1cRxR2Fc

Here is my question for everybody.

If you only have 2 hours training time daily, you can only have 1 of the following 2 choices (assume you can't have both choices for the sake of discussion):

1. Stay home and throw/lift/pull/push your 120 lb dummy.
2. Go to gym to work out.

Which training do you prefer and why?

Alternate your training days.

Gym day, cardio day, SC day, rest day, repeat.

Or some variation of that.

[YouKnowWho]

I run and lift weights. Running takes priority for me.
I love running too. IMO, no training is more important than running away from fat cop's chassing. As long I can run faster than my opponent, he can't hit me.


Alternate your training days.

Gym day, cardio day, SC day, rest day, repeat.

Or some variation of that.

That's exactly what I'm doing right now. The problem is when I

- do my 4 miles running 3 times a week,
- go to gym 3 times a week,

I do feel guilty. If my teacher is still alive, he may want me to spend those time in SC instead. :(

If I can train my shadow boxing during my running, work on my weight pulley in the gym, I will feel less guilty about myself. :D

[Eric Olson]

Just try to understand the definition of "crossfit". Will you conside to throw a 120 lb dummy 300 times over your head to be "crossfit"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sl1cRxR2Fc

Here is my question for everybody.

If you only have 2 hours training time daily, you can only have 1 of the following 2 choices (assume you can't have both choices for the sake of discussion):

1. Stay home and throw/lift/pull/push your 120 lb dummy.
2. Go to gym to work out.

Which training do you prefer and why?

3) Integrate your strength training into your cardio. Unless you're like Frost and WenShu who have the time to devote an entire day to training their gluteus minimus.

[Frost]

3) Integrate your strength training into your cardio. Unless you're like Frost and WenShu who have the time to devote an entire day to training their gluteus minimus.

see this is what happens when people with no grasp of the subject get punked, they start making silly insulting comments which only go to show how insecure they are :)

[YouKnowWho]

3) Integrate your strength training into your cardio.

This just remind me oneday after my 340 reps 60 lb weight pulley gym work out, I was sweating and breathing fast. One guy said, "You seem to have a good work out". I couldn't understand his comment at that moment. In my mind, "Of course I have a good work out. This is why I come to gym for." I then looked around and found out that nobody was sweating and breath fast as I did in that gym.

[YouKnowWho]

Gym more ways to change up your work out.
Ever use a Bulgarian Bag
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggmpisjjtTU

This kind of training does have "combat" in mind. I'll expect this kind of training will be more popular in the future generation.

[HumbleWCGuy]

First off, stop making assumptions, especially about me, to suit your argument. It's obnoxious. Second, steroids are illegal and tested. Even ephedrine is banned. Thanks for the advice about staying alert, because I certainly needed military hints and tips *sarcasm*.

I know a lot of people, including senior officers, who conduct crossfit daily, and swear by it. These guys are in amazing shape, something I CAN'T say about the TCMA community, and always score ridiculously high on the APFT. End of story.

Knock off the ad hominem attacks. It's childish.
Steroids are not tested for in the Military upon a commander's request NOT as a matter of course. They can be tested for, but usually aren't. I live two blocks from a military base. They aren't testing anybody who keeps their head down and does their job.

ad hominem attacks?? LOL I paraphrase, but didn't you just call us a bunch of beer belly kung fu instructors?

Don't get mad at me. I am just repeating back what you say in a succinct way to show you that it makes no sense.

[Eric Olson]

see this is what happens when people with no grasp of the subject get punked, they start making silly insulting comments which only go to show how insecure they are :)

Oh, you want to take the high road now? Too late, I think.

[bawang]

see this is what happens when people with no grasp of the subject get punked, they start making silly insulting comments which only go to show how insecure they are :)

hes jealous of your giant muscular buttocks and thighs, and ashamed of his ironing board backside, straight up straight down.

if i put my penus inside, i no know if its man or womans.

[-N-]

I love running too. IMO, no training is more important than running away from fat cop's chassing. As long I can run faster than my opponent, he can't hit me.

That's exactly what I'm doing right now. The problem is when I

- do my 4 miles running 3 times a week,
- go to gym 3 times a week,

I do feel guilty. If my teacher is still alive, he may want me to spend those time in SC instead. :(

If I can train my shadow boxing during my running, work on my weight pulley in the gym, I will feel less guilty about myself. :D
You can cut out 1 running day and 1 gym day.

That gives you 3 SC days, or 2 SC days and 1 rest day.

The routine that worked well for me was:

mon - long run
tues - gym
wed - medium run
thu - gym
fri - medium run
sat - mantis
sun - mantis

I did sprint intervals for the last 2 miles of each run.

Currently doing:

mon - off
tues - off
wed - run/bike
thu - gym
fri - run
sat - mantis
sun - mantis

Working on recovering running conditionng after a knee injury.

I just reread your running info. You don't need 2 hours to do 4 miles.

Also, you can vary your running days. Something like 6, 4, 2. Slower pace for the longer run, and work in intervals if you haven't already. 2 mile day can be 1/2 mile worm up, 1/8 mile all out sprint intervals.

For several years I was doing 10, 6, 6. And also did weights on my running days, but later just did 2 days of weights on non-running days. I felt lazy doing that, but there was a cute girl at the gym that wanted to be my gym buddy and I was like, "yeah, sure".

[bawang]

why so much running? you practice running away?

[-N-]

why so much running? you practice running away?

Actually, got started running due to work stress, and got carried away.

Sprints and short/medium runs are all you really need for fight conditioning cardio.

And there were some runner chicks that that kinda made the running fun, so that was ok too.

That's why for YKW, I was saying to cut down to 2 run days. Priorities, you know.

[-N-]

Intervals at the end of 6 or 10 miles is good. You're already tired, then you totally kick your own ass some more, to the point that breathing hurts.

Forces you to really relax the legwork, and gives you really good gains on anaerobic capacity, which is good for sparring.

[Eric Olson]

hes jealous of your giant muscular buttocks and thighs, and ashamed of his ironing board backside, straight up straight down.

if i put my penus inside, i no know if its man or womans.

So are you coming out to the kung fu forum as a bisexual? You know, there might be a better place to do that, but thanks for sharing.

[bawang]

So are you coming out to the kung fu forum as a bisexual? You know, there might be a better place to do that, but thanks for sharing.

its not gay if a black man do the sex to a white man. it is retribution for 400 years of slavery and oppression.

[YouKnowWho]

You can cut out 1 running day and 1 gym day.
That's a good idea. I may run 5 or 6 miles twice a week instead of 4 miles 3 times a week. I do have to go to gym 3 times a week because my wife want to lose weight. :(


I just reread your running info. You don't need 2 hours to do 4 miles.
I don't. After running will be my serious stretching time. I will do my static stretching first. I then do my dynamic stretching (inside crescent, outside crescent, swing leg forward up, swing leg backward up, ...). I'll then finish with 4 punching drills and 4 kicking drills. Running is the best way to warm up.


why so much running? you practice running away?
I believe if I can run faster than my opponent, even the best striker in the world won't be able to hit me. I had out run a motocycle chassing with a guy holding a Samurai sword on the back seat when I was young. I had faith in my running since then. That's one ability I will never give up in my old age.

[RWilson]

First off, stop making assumptions, especially about me, to suit your argument. It's obnoxious. Second, steroids are illegal and tested. Even ephedrine is banned. Thanks for the advice about staying alert, because I certainly needed military hints and tips *sarcasm*.

I know a lot of people, including senior officers, who conduct crossfit daily, and swear by it. These guys are in amazing shape, something I CAN'T say about the TCMA community, and always score ridiculously high on the APFT. End of story.

Knock off the ad hominem attacks. It's childish.

What did the cooks make you for dinner today, drake?

[Drake]

What did the cooks make you for dinner today, drake?

WTF are you talking about? Stay on topic. Are you drunk or something?

[Drake]

Steroids are not tested for in the Military upon a commander's request NOT as a matter of course. They can be tested for, but usually aren't. I live two blocks from a military base. They aren't testing anybody who keeps their head down and does their job.

ad hominem attacks?? LOL I paraphrase, but didn't you just call us a bunch of beer belly kung fu instructors?

Don't get mad at me. I am just repeating back what you say in a succinct way to show you that it makes no sense.

No, you put words in my mouth and altered my meaning. And yes, obesity is a problem in TCMA, especially with instructors.

You live two blocks from a military base. I've been in for 13 years. Who do you think is right here?

[-N-]

That's a good idea. I may run 5 or 6 miles twice a week instead of 4 miles 3 times a week. I do have to go to gym 3 times a week because my wife want to lose weight. :(

[...]

I believe if I can run faster than my opponent, even the best striker in the world won't be able to hit me. I had out run a motocycle chassing with a guy holding a Samurai sword on the back seat when I was young. I had faith in my running since then. That's one ability I will never give up in my old age.

Running is way better for weight loss than gym machines. Have your wife go with you. Plot out a 3 mile route and make her walk. She can progress to alternating run/walk, and build up to 3 mile jog/run.

You can run while she does her walk. Just keep doubling back to keep her company if you get to far ahead. Her 3 mile route becomes your 6 mile. You can mix it up with ****leks, which is better for your sparring than just a steady run. That's a good way for an experienced runner to partner with a novice.

Yeah those motorcycle sword guys. I hate when that happens...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYzPUa-6BLE

[-N-]

I don't. After running will be my serious stretching time. I will do my static stretching first. I then do my dynamic stretching (inside crescent, outside crescent, swing leg forward up, swing leg backward up, ...). I'll then finish with 4 punching drills and 4 kicking drills. Running is the best way to warm up.

I cut back on my static stretching. Doing mostly contract/relax and dynamic.

You could mix it up a little.

Like fast stretching, kicking drills and punching drills as warmups for your SC days. Especially if you can do 3 SC days.

I do stretching, fast footwork, kicking drills, punching drills as warmup for bag work and Mantis.

[RWilson]

No, you put words in my mouth and altered my meaning. And yes, obesity is a problem in TCMA, especially with instructors.

You live two blocks from a military base. I've been in for 13 years. Who do you think is right here?
Drake admitted it. He has been being taken care of by the military for 13 years. Just saying.

For what it is worth I will throw my opinion in. We are all fighters in our own way. The tcma community are fighters too albeit mostly in their minds but that is besides the point. The goal is to get better at our skill sets(grappling, striking, being aware of danger, etc) and not to become super fit, super strong, super ripped fitness people. If Michael Phelps lifted weights all day, did gymnastic stengthening, and did not swim at all he would be a terrible swimmer. There is a huge difference between an athlete and someone who is in great shape. An athlete is in great shape AND performs a sport that requires good skills sets. A guy in shape does crossfit and gets to grunt with his buddies about doing tons of box jumps in 20 minutes. Big difference. I do not believe in the big 4(deadlifting, squats etc) as the main exercises for strength. There are many ways to build stength. And there are many ways to condition yourself. The best way to condition yourself for wrestling is to actually wrestle a lot. The new fad phrase of the day is, "approach exercise as a practice and not as a work out". While this is good advice to keep from getting injured web doing newer harder exercises it has led to people thinking that that are athletes when in truth they just work out.

If I had 2 hours to train every day...and I had a fight coming up...or was worried about a possible fight if I was a bouncer, bodyguard...I would make myself stronger and find someone to work with. I realize this is kind of broad but there you have it. I would use the first 30-45 min for conditioning(lifting, carrying my partner across the yard and he does the same back, pushing heavy objects, pulling heavy objects, sprints, bear crawls, helping grandmas with their groceries. The next hour or so would be spent drilling to develop new skills and then...dare I say it on re Kung fu forum...sparring of some kind. Or we can just be pc and call it "resistance training" which is hilarious cause now every Kung fu person does this so called "resistance training" and probably thinks they are sparring.

[HumbleWCGuy]

No, you put words in my mouth and altered my meaning. And yes, obesity is a problem in TCMA, especially with instructors.

You live two blocks from a military base. I've been in for 13 years. Who do you think is right here?

I am not putting words in your mouth. Your problem is that you are vomiting posts out onto the forum, and apparently, you can't make sense of the disconnected vomit-spray that you are spewing. So, when someone who can connect the dots of your nonsense comes along and asks you about it, you get mad.

It doesn't really matter how long you have been in the military if you don't know anything about steroids. You definitely aren't clear about the military drug testing policies.

You definitely don't know a lot about working out either, the basic assumptions of CrossFit are embarrassingly incorrect.

[Frost]

Oh, you want to take the high road now? Too late, I think.

nope just like making fun of someone who gets all his information from late night TV ads :D

[HumbleWCGuy]

Drake admitted it. He has been being taken care of by the military for 13 years. Just saying.

For what it is worth I will throw my opinion in. We are all fighters in our own way. The tcma community are fighters too albeit mostly in their minds but that is besides the point. The goal is to get better at our skill sets(grappling, striking, being aware of danger, etc) and not to become super fit, super strong, super ripped fitness people. If Michael Phelps lifted weights all day, did gymnastic stengthening, and did not swim at all he would be a terrible swimmer. There is a huge difference between an athlete and someone who is in great shape. An athlete is in great shape AND performs a sport that requires good skills sets. A guy in shape does crossfit and gets to grunt with his buddies about doing tons of box jumps in 20 minutes. Big difference. I do not believe in the big 4(deadlifting, squats etc) as the main exercises for strength. There are many ways to build stength. And there are many ways to condition yourself. The best way to condition yourself for wrestling is to actually wrestle a lot. The new fad phrase of the day is, "approach exercise as a practice and not as a work out". While this is good advice to keep from getting injured web doing newer harder exercises it has led to people thinking that that are athletes when in truth they just work out.

If I had 2 hours to train every day...and I had a fight coming up...or was worried about a possible fight if I was a bouncer, bodyguard...I would make myself stronger and find someone to work with. I realize this is kind of broad but there you have it. I would use the first 30-45 min for conditioning(lifting, carrying my partner across the yard and he does the same back, pushing heavy objects, pulling heavy objects, sprints, bear crawls, helping grandmas with their groceries. The next hour or so would be spent drilling to develop new skills and then...dare I say it on re Kung fu forum...sparring of some kind. Or we can just be pc and call it "resistance training" which is hilarious cause now every Kung fu person does this so called "resistance training" and probably thinks they are sparring.

translation


I don't train, but I am an expert on fitness and I am gong to put down others who similarly aren't training. LOL

[Eric Olson]

nope just like making fun of someone who gets all his information from late night TV ads :D

Yeah, and that's not a silly insult

[bawang]

Yeah, and that's not a silly insult

no, because he is not a feminine omega who is terrified of strangth.

your rules dont apply to real warriors. we do as we wish.

[Frost]

Yeah, and that's not a silly insult

nope its the truth, it is where you get your info from isnt it? or from books from guys who do those infomertials

because there is no way on gods green earth anyone who has done any research would get Periodisation that wrong!

[bawang]

nope its the truth, it is where you get your info from isnt it?

that guy criticized and disrespected a guy on a book, then realized its lam sai wing his own founder. saying his crane beak was wrong and out of alignment. lol

[Frost]

that guy criticized and disrespected a guy on a book, then realized its lam sai wing his own founder. saying his crane beak was wrong and out of alignment. lol

why am i not surprised lol

[bawang]

why am i not surprised lol

because we alpha. we can sense the weak and soft-anused.

[RWilson]

translation

This is the extent of your conditioning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPkwrwTLpUo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[HumbleWCGuy]

This is the extent of your conditioning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPkwrwTLpUo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

You knew right where to find that video. I would say that you are projecting your slovenliness on to others.

[Drake]

I am not putting words in your mouth. Your problem is that you are vomiting posts out onto the forum, and apparently, you can't make sense of the disconnected vomit-spray that you are spewing. So, when someone who can connect the dots of your nonsense comes along and asks you about it, you get mad.

It doesn't really matter how long you have been in the military if you don't know anything about steroids. You definitely aren't clear about the military drug testing policies.

You definitely don't know a lot about working out either, the basic assumptions of CrossFit are embarrassingly incorrect.

So, in other words, you think I am wrong, and will use insults to prove your point? Feels nice, doesn't it?

Oh, wait, that IS what you did. You didn't refute my points with facts or data, and are now throwing a fit of insults in order to discredit what I said. Very, very brilliant.

[Drake]

On a side note, virtually all high intensity exercise is good for you. For example, I ran for several miles the other day with a team carrying a litter with water jugs on them. Once we made it up the side of the hill, we did sprints, lunges, and fireman carries up the steep side of the hill. We then ran back with the litters and water jugs. High intensity, great workout.
Reflecting, I can see how old school workouts kept similar tempos in their workouts. For whatever reason, they are disappearing from TCMA, and that's a **** shame.

[wenshu]

A statistic of what? Certainly not injury rates.

Personal anecdotes aren't valid, either. There's a lot of urban legends and misinformation out there to make anecdotes one of the worst sources in terms of quantitative data. Google the word porn, and tell me what the findings mean. Nothing, really.

Oh sorry, you're too lazy to click some links with a little critical thinking and need researchers to tell you whats misinformation and whats not.

You do realize google is a powerful research tool right? That the indices are basically just a database you can query? It doesn't do the work for you, you still need to think.

You can google porn addiction and you'll probably get a pretty good idea of it's prevalence. You don't need scientific research when a google search, some basic critical thinking and common sense is sufficient. Or you can keep using science as a buzzword to hide your laziness and bias.

What exactly do you think is one of the most important data sources researchers are going to use if they ever study Assfit injury rates? Anecdotes from affiliates, trainers and participants.

http://www.exra.org/2009%20BJSM%20review%20article%20re%20youth%20spor ts%20inj%20-%20Zemper.htm


As noted previously, the most complete information on catastrophic sports injuries in youth is found in the database maintained at the National Center for Catastrophic Injury Research (NCCIR) at the University of North Carolina. Drawing on reports from coaches, athletic directors, athletic trainers, national athletic organizations, a national newspaper clipping service, and a network of professional colleagues, center staff communicate directly with coaches, administrators or physicians involved with each reported injury to collect detailed information on the circumstances, diagnosis and extent of each reported injury.

Research like this would do you little good anyways. You can't compare it to the injury rates of sports because, a, it's not a sport in the first place and b, generally athletes get injured on the field of play, not conditioning for it.

Within crossfit these idiots literally call it the "rupture club". There's no funding for research because no one gives a **** about soccer mom's and beta males doing Zumba.

[wenshu]

Haha...Wenshu just got spanked :D I hope that didn't sting too bad.


3) Unless you're like Frost and WenShu who have the time to devote an entire day to training their gluteus minimus.

Olson, your fixation with my ass is worrisome, I already told you I'm not into scat play.

[Drake]

Oh sorry, you're too lazy to click some links with a little critical thinking and need researchers to tell you whats misinformation and whats not.

You do realize google is a powerful research tool right? That the indices are basically just a database you can query? It doesn't do the work for you, you still need to think.

You can google porn addiction and you'll probably get a pretty good idea of it's prevalence. You don't need scientific research when a google search, some basic critical thinking and common sense is sufficient. Or you can keep using science as a buzzword to hide your laziness and bias.

What exactly do you think is one of the most important data sources researchers are going to use if they ever study Assfit injury rates? Anecdotes from affiliates, trainers and participants.

http://www.exra.org/2009%20BJSM%20review%20article%20re%20youth%20spor ts%20inj%20-%20Zemper.htm



Research like this would do you little good anyways. You can't compare it to the injury rates of sports because, a, it's not a sport in the first place and b, generally athletes get injured on the field of play, not conditioning for it.

Within crossfit these idiots literally call it the "rupture club". There's no funding for research because no one gives a **** about soccer mom's and beta males doing Zumba.


What bias? WTF are you talking about?

Listen, I could give a flying **** if you guys do whatever to stay in shape, ok? It's obvious there's a HUGE issue with physical fitness in TCMA, and the potbellies are more than obvious. It's even more hilarious when said person with potbelly RIPS a workout methodology while being fat as all **** themselves.

I DON'T ****ING DO CROSSFIT. I only said it like five times. WTF is so ****ing wrong with your head that you can't figure that out. I have seen dozens upon dozens of people successfully do crossfit, be in amazing shape, and be injury free. So, if you think some obnoxious **** on the internet is going to convince me with unconvincing bull****, you are dead wrong.

And guess what, genius... a LOT of people get hurt in martial arts. ALL THE ****ING TIME. What's your point?

[Old Noob]

I've been an Army JAG Officer for 13 years and am familiar with the Army's drug testing policies. You're both partially right. Steroids are not tested for on every sample; they are tested ramdomly on certain batches and/or on request of the unit Commander.

As for crossfit, its like martial arts in that there are good crossfit gyms and bad crossfit gyms; there are good crossfit practitioners and bad crossfit practitioners. The problem, as I see it, is that the olympic lifts can be very dangerous if done incorrectly so, if you are either a bad student or a good student at a bad gym that doesn't do a good job of teaching you proper technique, you are at risk. This risk increases as crossfit's popularity increases (you get less qualified teachers and less qualified learners). I've recently been in physical therapy rehabbing a shoulder injury and (I know this is anecdotal) my PT said that a large percentage of their clientelle were crossfitters.

The military is using crossfit but I think they've been using crossfil principles in some of their workouts (take Drakes litter carry) for a while now. But, as Drake also said, that's just for the fitness part. Soldiers will do crossfit for PT, train combatives, go to the shoothouse or the range, then do land navigation, etc. The infantryman's job when not deployed is constant training.

[wenshu]

And guess what, genius... a LOT of people get hurt in martial arts. ALL THE ****ING TIME. What's your point?

That is my point. Injuries happen in martial arts, while actually practicing martial arts. You're not supposed to get injured just conditioning. The point of conditioning is to prevent injuries while actually doing something like martial arts.

http://phc.amedd.army.mil/PHC%20Resource%20Library/PHN_No_0312-01_Extreme_Conditioning_Programs_and_the_Army_2012 .pdf


2 Potential Benefits
ECPs may help to reduce body fat, enhance muscle strength and endurance, and increase cardiovascular capacity. For many warfighters, the exercise pace and difficulty of ECPs are appealing, motivating, and exciting. Additionally, there is a perception that these programs can help prepare Soldiers for physically demanding occupational tasks in garrison and during deployment. In group settings, ECPs may even foster teamwork and contribute to unit camaraderie. There is, however, insufficient research to suggest that ECPs are more beneficial than other types of fitness programs.
3 Potential Risks
The risk for musculoskeletal injury from ECPs may be greater than from other types of conditioning programs, particularly for individuals just starting an ECP because they may try to do too much too soon. Additionally, some of the exercises require a high degree of skill and coordination to safely execute. Risks associated with ECPs include muscle strains, torn ligaments, stress fractures, and exertional rhabdomyolysis (a potentially life-threatening condition resulting from breakdown of skeletal muscle following heavy physical activity). Conditions like these can result in lost duty time for medical treatment and extensive rehabilitation, which can adversely affect individual and unit readiness. In addition, ECPs should not be considered a replacement for Army physical training doctrine (Army Training Circular 3-22.20, Army Physical Readiness Training), as they do not cover all Soldier conditioning and training needs.

why u mad tho?



The problem, as I see it, is that the olympic lifts can be very dangerous if done incorrectly so, if you are either a bad student or a good student at a bad gym that doesn't do a good job of teaching you proper technique, you are at risk. This risk increases as crossfit's popularity increases (you get less qualified teachers and less qualified learners). I've recently been in physical therapy rehabbing a shoulder injury and (I know this is anecdotal) my PT said that a large percentage of their clientelle were crossfitters.

Haven't even mention the stupidity of doing Olympic lifts for reps in a state of fatigue. The certifications literally teach people that doing dangerous lifts with lack of form is acceptable.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I've been an Army JAG Officer for 13 years and am familiar with the Army's drug testing policies. You're both partially right. Steroids are not tested for on every sample; they are tested ramdomly on certain batches and/or on request of the unit Commander.

As for crossfit, its like martial arts in that there are good crossfit gyms and bad crossfit gyms; there are good crossfit practitioners and bad crossfit practitioners. The problem, as I see it, is that the olympic lifts can be very dangerous if done incorrectly so, if you are either a bad student or a good student at a bad gym that doesn't do a good job of teaching you proper technique, you are at risk. This risk increases as crossfit's popularity increases (you get less qualified teachers and less qualified learners). I've recently been in physical therapy rehabbing a shoulder injury and (I know this is anecdotal) my PT said that a large percentage of their clientelle were crossfitters.

The military is using crossfit but I think they've been using crossfil principles in some of their workouts (take Drakes litter carry) for a while now. But, as Drake also said, that's just for the fitness part. Soldiers will do crossfit for PT, train combatives, go to the shoothouse or the ranhttp://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1184058ge, then do land navigation, etc. The infantryman's job when not deployed is constant training.

That's sort of the thing. There is nothing about the Crossfit certification that promises quality which makes Crossfit crap. "Crossfit" works when you have a guy who is extremely qualified in exercise sciences and just gets the CrossFit shingle for the marketing.

Each Service is
required to test at least 1000 random specimens for anabolic steroids every 2 years
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/101016p.pdf

With all the military monsters that I see, I don't think that much testing occurs unless, you exhibit poor behavior. If you read on any steroid board, you will quickly learn that no serviceman has a fear of the steroid testing policy.

[bawang]

why dont the army accept steroids? dont they want badass supersoldiers?

[HumbleWCGuy]

why dont the army accept steroids? dont they want badass supersoldiers?

They do accept them. The testing policy is a joke.

[bawang]

They do accept them. The testing policy is a joke.

nice

america should get a tier 1 team of ronnie colemans. they would kick ass.

[Drake]

They do accept them. The testing policy is a joke.

Because you live two blocks away.

I love when out of shape people blast in shape people, accusing them of using steroids, because of their jealousy. Bitter, fatass jealousy...

[HumbleWCGuy]

Because you live two blocks away.

I love when out of shape people blast in shape people, accusing them of using steroids, because of their jealousy. Bitter, fatass jealousy...
Translation

Because you live two blocks away.
I am completely clueless and when everyone proves me wrong with the facts, I just make stuff up due to my Bitter, fatass jealousy of smart people

[Drake]

Translation

Well... I see you are down to this. Consider yourself blocked. Reading your garbage won't do me much good. Can get the same from a child.

[RWilson]

Well... I see you are down to this. Consider yourself blocked. Reading your garbage won't do me much good. Can get the same from a child.

You could not do that without getting the last word in and making a big scene? What is it with you Kung foo guys an having a wimpy online temperament? Let me guess though....in person you are a deadly zen monk and you only lose your cool online. Right.

[IronFist]

lol @ some of these posts.

Let's say CF has a higher than average rate of injury. I mean they seem to joke about injuries, and have "uncle Rhabdo (http://www.crossfitsouthbay.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Rhabdo3.jpg)" as an unofficial mascot, so let's assume this is true.

Knowing a bunch of people who do Crossfit and don't get injured doesn't mean Crossfit doesn't lead to injuries, it just means your friends are within a certain sample population. It literally makes as much sense as saying "drinking and driving doesn't increase the rate of accidents; I know 10 people who drink and drive and haven't gotten into an accident."

And on an unrelated note:


On a side note, virtually all high intensity exercise is good for you. For example, I ran for several miles the other day with a team carrying a litter with water jugs on them. Once we made it up the side of the hill, we did sprints, lunges, and fireman carries up the steep side of the hill. We then ran back with the litters and water jugs. High intensity, great workout.


That does not sound like fun!

[Syn7]

When somebody grows too fast and has tons of bacne and a p1ss poor attitude I think it's totally fair to accuse them of possible juicing.

When somebody is and always has been healthy and strong why would anyone assume they're juicing? In my experiences the only people that really get sh1t on for juicing are juicers.


There are many legit scenarios where steroids are a good idea. My mom was on steroids. Seriously, she really was. Legally of course.

[Syn7]

And on an unrelated note:



That does not sound like fun!


Really? that kind of exercise totally appeals to me. But then I'm the kind of guy who went on 3 day hikes through the rockies with a 40 pound pack all alone when I was 15. All said and done, you don't really need very much that is heavy, it's the food, liquids and cookware that makes it heavy. It's a lot easier when you have others to help spread the load, but when you're alone you gotta hump it all yourself and you need a few extra items because you are alone.

[Eric Olson]

nope its the truth, it is where you get your info from isnt it? or from books from guys who do those infomertials

because there is no way on gods green earth anyone who has done any research would get Periodisation that wrong!

Periodization doesn't really have one definition, it depends on the sport. As it pertains to strength training, its just I defined it. If you disagree, lets read your definition.

[IronFist]

Periodization looks like this (assuming you don't get injured or sick or have to stop training for any reason):

http://i.imgur.com/LffoE.gif

The number of lines or whatever might be different. I just drew that really fast.

You can't improve endlessly. You have to cut back and start over (ideally a little higher than where you started from the first time). And then every so often you have to back it up a few cycles.

[RWilson]

Isn't periodization when my wife justifies getting angry over anything without apology and has cramps? I pray to Allah for an early menopausization.

[IronFist]

lol at the drug discussion.

A lot of people underestimate how prevalent performance enhancing drugs are in certain circles.

Pro athletes, Olympic athletes, law enforcement, etc. I don't know about military but it wouldn't surprise me. Air Force pilots get "go pills" before long missions. They're not steroids but they're not exactly legal for you or me.

Drug testing means nothing if you're in certain groups.

Elite athletes have access to masking agents that you've never even heard of.

But really, who cares? For the most part they're not as dangerous as people make them out to be assuming you do your research and don't just start jabbing yourself with pins. Of course not everyone does their research.

People just don't want to believe that their childhood heroes have turned to the "dark side."

I remember 8 or 10 years ago on this forum someone was arguing that "Arnold Schwarzengger would never use drugs!" (as if they knew him personally or something).

[Drake]

There's no point in this line of work. Better to be fast and lean.

[Frost]

Periodization doesn't really have one definition, it depends on the sport. As it pertains to strength training, its just I defined it. If you disagree, lets read your definition.

nope it doesnt depend on the sport there a universal definition that come froms the guys that came up with the idea, and its pretty easy to find and its nothing like yours lol

[Eric Olson]

nope it doesnt depend on the sport there a universal definition that come froms the guys that came up with the idea, and its pretty easy to find and its nothing like yours lol

Seriously, just do a Google search. Top results for "periodization":

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/periodization.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodization
http://www.trifuel.com/training/triathlon-training/what-does-periodization-mean-and-how-does-it-work

There isn't one definition or method of periodization. It depends on the sport. Oh, but you know better.

As it pertains to weight/strength training I suggest you read this book:
http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Your-Own-Gym/dp/0971407614

[Frost]

Seriously, just do a Google search. Top results for "periodization":

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/periodization.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodization
http://www.trifuel.com/training/triathlon-training/what-does-periodization-mean-and-how-does-it-work

There isn't one definition or method of periodization. It depends on the sport. Oh, but you know better.

As it pertains to weight/strength training I suggest you read this book:
http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Your-Own-Gym/dp/0971407614

at it pertains to strength and power training i suggest you read the following
supertraining - mel siff
Block Periodization Vladimir Issurin
Ultimate MMA Conditioning Joel Jamieson
and anything by Yuri Verkhoshanksy

How you apply periodization may vary from sport to sport, but the priciple is universal
And its still nothing like how you are training lol

[Eric Olson]

at it pertains to strength and power training i suggest you read the following
supertraining - mel siff
Block Periodization Vladimir Issurin
Ultimate MMA Conditioning Joel Jamieson
and anything by Yuri Verkhoshanksy

Sure, when I have a chance. Orrrr...you could give us your definition right here and now.


How you apply periodization may vary from sport to sport, but the priciple is universal

Nice back peddle. That's basically what I said.



And its still nothing like how you are training lol

I didn't say that's how I was training (ie cardio mixed with strength). I said they weren't mutually exclusive.

Mark Lauren's training program that I linked to, IS a periodized program. But hey, I'll take the opinion of some random internet troll over his.

[wenshu]

Seriously, just do a Google search. Top results for "periodization":

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/periodization.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodization
http://www.trifuel.com/training/triathlon-training/what-does-periodization-mean-and-how-does-it-work

There isn't one definition or method of periodization. It depends on the sport. Oh, but you know better.


Here is your definition of periodization.


Just so people aren't confused about periodization (which gets thrown around a lot on these boards like its some magic word), it's basically a resistance training program followed over the course of about a month.Every week you change the type of sets that you are doing so the muscle is constantly challenged. For example, here's program that I was following (based on the book "You Are Your Own Gym", which is all body weight and BTW the author trains Navy Seals):

Week 1: Ladders
Week 2: Power sets
Week 3: Stappers
Week 4: Tabatas
Week 5: Rest

What does this have to do with integrating cardio in between your sets? Nothing.

Maybe you should actually read those links you posted. One doesn't even have anything to do with sports at all, the other is the one I posted several pages back in response to the post above and of the two that deal with sports, neither of them support your position as defined above in any way whatsoever.

Get your **** straight or STFU.

[RWilson]

If king foo sparred you guys would not be debating the definition of period. You guys seem to be on your periods regarding this made up word. I recommend birth control pills.

[Frost]

Here is your definition of periodization.



Maybe you should actually read those links you posted. One doesn't even have anything to do with sports at all, the other is the one I posted several pages back in response to the post above and of the two that deal with sports, neither of them support your position as defined above in any way whatsoever.

Get your **** straight or STFU.

umm what he said

[Eric Olson]

Here is your definition of periodization.



Maybe you should actually read those links you posted. One doesn't even have anything to do with sports at all,

Yep, I grabbed the wrong link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_periodization


the other is the one I posted several pages back in response to the post above and of the two that deal with sports, neither of them support your position as defined above in any way whatsoever.

Get your **** straight or STFU.

Just found this which will help explain it to you:

http://books.google.com/books?id=mlHbQab3ozQC&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=mark+lauren+periodization&source=bl&ots=SbbPItzds4&sig=llftlHWZWFz1e52sw7bT1zM7UoY&sa=X&ei=jZIzUJjiG4jY6wGj-4GgAw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=mark%20lauren%20periodization&f=false

...my time period on the "blocks" was off by a bit (a couple weeks vs one week), but its the same basic idea.

Oh, sorry, I forgot you guys have your own secret definition of periodization that you won't share with anybody. Please, stop hiding behind jargon (especially when its **** you make up yourself).

[RWilson]

Yep, I grabbed the wrong link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_periodization



Just found this which will help explain it to you:

http://books.google.com/books?id=mlHbQab3ozQC&pg=PA317&lpg=PA317&dq=mark+lauren+periodization&source=bl&ots=SbbPItzds4&sig=llftlHWZWFz1e52sw7bT1zM7UoY&sa=X&ei=jZIzUJjiG4jY6wGj-4GgAw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=mark%20lauren%20periodization&f=false

...my time period on the "blocks" was off by a bit (a couple weeks vs one week), but its the same basic idea.

Oh, sorry, I forgot you guys know about some super-secret version that you won't share with anybody. Please, stop hiding behind jargon.


I agree. What is with all the fancy jargon? In a few years no one will be talking about periodization. There are so many ways to train. Just train without the fancy words.

[wenshu]

it's basically a resistance training program followed over the course of about a month.Every week you change the type of sets that you are doing so the muscle is constantly challenged.



...my time period on the "blocks" was off by a bit (a couple weeks vs one week), but its the same basic idea.

Nope. You forgot teh muslce confusion and that it's "basically a resistence training program".



Oh, sorry, I forgot you guys have your own secret definition of periodization that you won't share with anybody. Please, stop hiding behind jargon (especially when its **** you make up yourself).

What the **** are you talking about?

Seriously, try actually reading the articles instead of just posting links to them.

[wenshu]

If king foo sparred you guys would not be debating the definition of period. You guys seem to be on your periods regarding this made up word. I recommend birth control pills.

How's the diet going?

[RWilson]

How's the diet going?

Diets are for people with emotional issues and for fat Kung fooers. You must have me confused someone else.

[Eric Olson]

Nope. You forgot teh muslce confusion and that it's "basically a resistence training program".



What the **** are you talking about?

Seriously, try actually reading the articles instead of just posting links to them.

WTF are YOU talking about? You guys keep telling me I'm wrong, but when I offer up credible links that say exactly the same **** you say "nope, that's not it". Periodization isn't hard to understand, its a cycle of different intensities/types of training. It can apply to all kind of sports and isn't the same across sports. As far as strength training goes, its a program as described in the last link I posted.

I haven't seen anything from guys that says otherwise, other than saying "nope, that's not it". Fail.

[Frost]

WTF are YOU talking about? You guys keep telling me I'm wrong, but when I offer up credible links that say exactly the same **** you say "nope, that's not it". Periodization isn't hard to understand, its a cycle of different intensities/types of training. It can apply to all kind of sports and isn't the same across sports. As far as strength training goes, its a program as described in the last link I posted.

I haven't seen anything from guys that says otherwise, other than saying "nope, that's not it". Fail.

if you think what you wrote, what that guy wrote and what the links you posted are the same....:eek:

[Eric Olson]

if you think what you wrote, what that guy wrote and what the links you posted are the same....:eek:

In substance, yes, as it relates to periodization.

[Frost]

In substance, yes, as it relates to periodization.

you wrote "
change the type of sets that you are doing so the muscle is constantly challenged."

this is not correct its about building a base and then building a peak, it has nothing about confusing the muscle or constantly challanging them, its also about allowing you to build one quality whilst maintaining others

[Eric Olson]

you wrote "

this is not correct its about building a base and then building a peak, it has nothing about confusing the muscle or constantly challanging them, its also about allowing you to build one quality whilst maintaining others

That's one kind of periodization, linear periodization. There's also something called undulating periodization:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11991778

Mark Lauren's program integrates both. But seriously, keep right on reading your old books and telling me I'm wrong.

The point is, periodization can mean a lot of DIFFERENT things. You need to pick the schedule that works with your sport and your goals.

[IronFist]

There's no point in this line of work. Better to be fast and lean.

Are you saying that a) big muscles make you slow, and b) drugs prevent you from being lean?

[HumbleWCGuy]

Because you live two blocks away.

I love when out of shape people blast in shape people, accusing them of using steroids, because of their jealousy. Bitter, fatass jealousy...

I posted the testing policy fool.

[Frost]

That's one kind of periodization, linear periodization. There's also something called undulating periodization:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11991778

Mark Lauren's program integrates both. But seriously, keep right on reading your old books and telling me I'm wrong.

The point is, periodization can mean a lot of DIFFERENT things. You need to pick the schedule that works with your sport and your goals.

the point is you have no idea what im talking about, it applies to all models but i was talking mainly about block periodisation, but the principles are universal....so you are wrong but hey keep getting your info from late night tv and dont bother with the science lol

its obvious you have never trained for any sport, nor strength trained in any serious manner so i wont bother with this anymore

[HumbleWCGuy]

the point is you have no idea what im talking about, it applies to all models but i was talking mainly about block periodisation, but the principles are universal....so you are wrong but hey keep getting your info from late night tv and dont bother with the science lol

its obvious you have never trained for any sport, nor strength trained in any serious manner so i wont bother with this anymore

He completely embarrassed himself. He should go through and delete all of his posts and read some books.