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View Full Version : IMA = republica, EMA = democrat



YouKnowWho
08-21-2012, 12:50 PM
Sometime I don't understand why anybody who belongs to the bottom 99% want to vote for those who belong to the top 1%. When I look at TCMA, I then realize the reason.

Many people believe that IMA training path is superior. Even if they are not IMA masters yet, since they believe that if they follow that training path, oneday they will become IMA masters. Those guys will be in favor of the IMA training path.

Many people don't believe that they will be IMA masters no matter how hard that they may try. They just want to take the safe path by working on heavy bag and throwing dummy. Those guys will be in favor of the EMA training path.

What's your thought?

bawang
08-21-2012, 01:49 PM
i vote independent.

SPJ
08-21-2012, 02:05 PM
We learn or train one thing at a time.

Focus on external first.

Then learn internal next.

For independent candidate

Vote for Ron Paul.

Oh yeah.

He may not win, though.

xinyidizi
08-21-2012, 02:26 PM
Before I had no idea that people(especially foreigners) can get so much dogmatic about IMA and EMA. I think this kind of thinking is mostly the result of not having enough exposure to high level IMA and EMA from both sides. Both of my teachers in taiji and xinyiliuhe/chaquan come from Henan(chen jiagou and zhoukou) where IMA and EMA are both available at a very high level. I have never heard them saying anything bad about EMA and they always discuss EMA techniques from different styles and how to defend them. My xinyi teacher had us do weight training and practice on heavy bags, trees, resisting opponents from the beginning. Some IMA styles might take "a bit" longer to be used in fighting but under the right training it won't take too long and the students can easily use them in practice like any other styles.

They are both good but I like the order I learned them. I started with internal and got good roots and a flexible kua out of it then moved to external and got strong and fast. Now I am in the middle and I continue exploring both.

Politics is the same. People can get dogmatic on the name of the parties for no reason instead of learning about the candidate and what he wants to do.

YouKnowWho
08-21-2012, 02:52 PM
Here is an example that an IMA guy used EMA technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9kFxPuRYSg

At 2.29, The guy with white top and black pants used was a "head lock leg twist". Didn't know Chen Taiji guys also train that move.

Flusher
08-26-2012, 04:16 PM
Sometime I don't understand why anybody who belongs to the bottom 99% want to vote for those who belong to the top 1%. When I look at TCMA, I then realize the reason.

Many people believe that IMA training path is superior.
What compels that belief? What justifies it?


Even if they are not IMA masters yet, since they believe that if they follow that training path, oneday they will become IMA masters. Those guys will be in favor of the IMA training path.

Many people don't believe that they will be IMA masters no matter how hard that they may try. They just want to take the safe path by working on heavy bag and throwing dummy. Those guys will be in favor of the EMA training path.

What's your thought?
Safe path? Really? Or are you just trolling....? This begs the questions, what makes IMA superior? What shows that it is so?

YouKnowWho
08-26-2012, 04:23 PM
This is the question that I would like to get answer from those who believe in it.

What make you to believe that if you follow the IMA training path, oneday you will become an IMA master (If you work hard, you wil belong to the top 1% someday)?

Flusher
08-26-2012, 04:44 PM
I have found that the only people who believe in the superiority of IMA, are IMA people.

There are also droves of folks who actually believe that hard work alone gets the job done. I would put them in with the 99%.

xinyidizi
08-26-2012, 05:34 PM
I am a little bit lost in this discussion :confused:


What make you to believe that if you follow the IMA training path, oneday you will become an IMA master

Because if we train with good teachers there is often many opportunities to see the teacher, the senior students, etc in sparring or being challenged by other martial artists.


I have found that the only people who believe in the superiority of IMA, are IMA people.

If they don't think that the style they practice is superior "for them" then why would they spend time on learning it? We all have the right to have a preference in choosing the right style for ourselves.

YouKnowWho
08-26-2012, 06:29 PM
I am a little bit lost in this discussion :confused: ... If they don't think that the style they practice is superior "for them" then why would they spend time on learning it? We all have the right to have a preference in choosing the right style for ourselves.

Sometime that may be the only style available to that person at that particular point of time.

The "internal" subject is as old as dirt. Those who belong to the bottom 99% and vote for those who belong to the top 1% make nosense to me. It's election season. Anything that can help those 99% to vote for the right person is always a good thing.

SPJ
08-26-2012, 06:54 PM
What is good is good?

It does not matter, if it is from internal or external aspect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvQhKmdj8E&feature=player_embedded#!

She sings well.

She sings well.

Even though she is from New Zealand.

Her Chinese may not be prefect.

But her vocal is good and not missing any note.

:cool:

xinyidizi
08-26-2012, 07:25 PM
Sometime that may be the only style available to that person at that particular point of time.

The "internal" subject is as old as dirt. Those who belong to the bottom 99% and vote for those who belong to the top 1% make nosense to me. It's election season. Anything that can help those 99% to vote for the right person is always a good thing.

I guess you are talking about a few decades ago. Now with all this ease in communication and internet everything is different. Those who are serious about learning internal martial arts can easily find the top practitioners of each style on the internet and if they don't have a high level guy in their city they can even learn some basic Chinese and come to China to learn from well recognized masters of each style. Those who are not that serious to make such efforts or sacrifices for learning from the highest level available can not be considered as part of 99% of the IMA community.

Jimbo
08-26-2012, 07:48 PM
When I was a kid I read a lot of books on MA. Some of those were about IMA styles, by Robert W. Smith. For a while, I began to believe that some styles (IMA) must be inherently superior, even though I had never studied anything classified as IMA.

Later, I began to realize that it's the man or woman, how they were trained, their genetics and lifestyle, etc. I've seen some so-called external MAists who displayed the traits generally considered IMA better than some IMA teachers. I've seen some TKD/Tang Soo Do, Japanese/Okinawan karate, CLF/Hung Gar, and western wrestling practitioners of advanced age who remained very healthy, powerful, and skillful. And some veteran IMA masters who degenerated considerably at the same age or younger. Also seen vice versa.

Now I only think of MA, not IMA or EMA. Besides, how many people call themselves 'external' MAists? IMO, the IMA/EMA division began more as a way of saying "I am inner door and you are outer door". There is definitely internal training, but most MAs train both to varying degrees, anyway.

David Jamieson
08-27-2012, 07:58 AM
lol, way to break open a hornets nest John.

Not like there isn't enough controversy and misinformation about this subject already.

Republican= American right wing
Democrat= American left wing
Libertarian= The fuselage that holds all the people really.
Canadian= An amused and bemused individual every 4 years when American elections come around and the Canadian notices the obsessive rants of his American acquaintances and friends. :p

Flusher
08-27-2012, 12:21 PM
If they don't think that the style they practice is superior "for them" then why would they spend time on learning it? We all have the right to have a preference in choosing the right style for ourselves.

Considering it to be subjectively superior is one thing. But many, if not most "pure" IMA people will claim that it is superior, objectively. But then become indignant when honest, valid criticism is put on the table. Cop-outs usually follow rather than proofs or examples. And they still demand that IMA should be consensually referred to as "superior".

Brings us back to the questions here: Why do some people consider IMA to be the top 1% (superior)? What shows it to be so?

David Jamieson
08-27-2012, 01:05 PM
Brings us back to the questions here: Why do some people consider IMA to be the top 1% (superior)? What shows it to be so?
so far, nothing really of any great merit.

as far as martiality goes, it is absolutely inferior to many of the simplest of styles either boxing or wrestling.

you can't learn to fight if you don't fight. Period.

Crikey, I've met snooty tai chi women who are convince you shouldn't sweat during a workout! Ridiculous.

I've also met bagua and xingyi people who can fight just fine for what they do. What I saw coming from Lee Ying Arng is proper tai chi.

Empty_Cup
08-27-2012, 01:27 PM
...

you can't learn to fight if you don't fight. Period.

...

I consider IMA and EMA to be two directions on the same path and somewhat inseparable. From Internal to External. From External to Internal. There is no need for one to be proven superior vs. the other. Yin and Yang are both complementary.

^ I agree with what David said above, but in a different way. Let's assume both an IMA and an EMA have the same years of experience and have the same amount of practice time live sparring against a 3rd party opponent (meaning some style that is neither IMA nor EMA). I believe both the IMA and the EMA would be equally matched.

Robinhood
08-27-2012, 01:43 PM
Here is an example that an IMA guy used EMA technique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9kFxPuRYSg

At 2.29, The guy with white top and black pants used was a "head lock leg twist". Didn't know Chen Taiji guys also train that move.

Looks OK to me, the internal comes before the external. Sounds like your not clear on what internal is, you are probably thinking of no touch internal.

YouKnowWho
08-27-2012, 01:57 PM
you are probably thinking of no touch internal.

I will be the last person on this planet who believes in "no touch"?

The "leg twist" is "force against force". There is no way to borrow your opponent's force by using that move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NgXae8ApQE

Translation:

Last move I was using "skill" to throw him. Next move I'll use "strength" to throw him. I'm going to throw him with "leg twist" ... Teacher: "Are you really trying to use your force to against me? I'm already over 50 years old ..." Student: "I was trying to help your throw to look real."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnxG84QTGx0

Syn7
08-28-2012, 12:50 AM
Sometime I don't understand why anybody who belongs to the bottom 99% want to vote for those who belong to the top 1%. When I look at TCMA, I then realize the reason.

Many people believe that IMA training path is superior. Even if they are not IMA masters yet, since they believe that if they follow that training path, oneday they will become IMA masters. Those guys will be in favor of the IMA training path.

Many people don't believe that they will be IMA masters no matter how hard that they may try. They just want to take the safe path by working on heavy bag and throwing dummy. Those guys will be in favor of the EMA training path.

What's your thought?

I dunno bout your analogy. Seems a lil too far out there for me. But the reason why people vote for who they vote for is because they want to believe. Look at what Obama did last time out. His supporters were in tears and so sure this was the huge change they had been "waiting" for. This time they may vote for him, but it won't feel the same. People simply want to be told and want to believe that they are in good hands and everything will be just fine. Whoever does that and spits out enough talking points to hit their target audiences will get votes.

Most people who work hard don't believe they will be multimillionaires. Hard work does not guarantee success. I think most folks know that.

YouKnowWho
08-28-2012, 02:24 AM
Most people who work hard don't believe they will be multimillionaires. Hard work does not guarantee success. I think most folks know that.

If this is true then why do we have people like "Joe the Plumber"?

Robinhood
08-29-2012, 09:09 AM
Its smart work that produces results, efficiency !

Robinhood
08-29-2012, 09:14 AM
I will be the last person on this planet who believes in "no touch"?

The "leg twist" is "force against force". There is no way to borrow your opponent's force by using that move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NgXae8ApQE

Translation:

Last move I was using "skill" to throw him. Next move I'll use "strength" to throw him. I'm going to throw him with "leg twist" ... Teacher: "Are you really trying to use your force to against me? I'm already over 50 years old ..." Student: "I was trying to help your throw to look real."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnxG84QTGx0

It still boils down to more skill equals less effort.

Syn7
08-31-2012, 12:32 AM
If this is true then why do we have people like "Joe the Plumber"?

Joe the plumber who isn't even a plumber is a complete idi0t. He took his fifteen minutes and exploited them for all he could get. He and people like him are a big part of the problem. Ever notice that loudest motherfukcer at the rallies can't even name the last five major bills their "hero" candidate voted for or against. Unfortunately, voters are usually the least qualified the judge anything political. When we use emotion to choose leaders we are making dangerous decisions.

Syn7
08-31-2012, 12:39 AM
It still boils down to more skill equals less effort.

Word. It's the same with gymnastics and B-Boyin'(breakdance). You have to power thru a handspring at first. Same with a windmill, you kick out, twist, turn and then muscle yourself back to the starting position again. But when you are good at it, you just use body mechanics and very little effort. But part of this effortlessness is coz you have actually gotten stronger from practice. Same with a handspring, you figure out the body mechanics and weight distribution and then it is all real fluid and effortless in appearance. At first you can actually see the student struggle through it.