Squats, bench, deadlift observations and scepticism

[Frost]

This last few months I have had to train at a few different gyms (due to work) and also had the pleasure of watching the local college rugby club join us at the powerlifting gym to workout

This has reinforced a few things I have long suspected…

Firstly people simply don’t understand depth intuitively on squats and what they think is level is in fact a quarter squat, and what they think is ATG is in reality level (almost). This means that when someone tells me they squat x y or z I am highly sceptical and unless I actually see them squat I simply don’t believe them, its not that I think they are making the number up its that in my 15 years of lifting I can count on one hand the number of people outside of a powerlifting club who actually have hit parallel or lower in the squat…….And I hold my hand up here as one of the accused…. I thought I was squatting parallel for years before moving to a powerlifting gym….and I lost 130 pounds off my squat overnight when I realised what breaking parallel actually means

Secondly no two people actually bench the same, you have those that bounce the weight so hard off their chest you fear they will break a rib, and you have those that don’t even touch the chest at all but only half bench and those that fall somewhere inbetween, again this makes me highly sceptical when talking numbers on the bench and if you haven’t benched under competition conditions its simply impossible to say with certainly what your bench is.

And finally we come to the deadlift…the only lift you take peoples work on because its hard not to do this lift correctly: you only have to stand up with the bar…there’s no bouncing, no cheating depth you either make the lift or you don’t.
SO when people say they are squatting this or that I say great but what about your deadlift………

[sanjuro_ronin]

I agree.
When I squat, I squat as low as I can TILL hips and waist basically touch, just a shy under parallel (depending on stance)BUT when I do serious weight and I KNOW that I can't make it, the squat becomes parallel at best, it is almost instinctive.
A true bench should touch the chest.
A DL should, to be legit, should be held for 2 seconds at least in the top position.
The thing is that, honestly, unless you are doing powerlifitng, it doesn't mean much.
I don't even know what my max are for sometime now.

[Featherstone]

I have a hard enough time doing squats without weights :D so no idea what I can squat. Been working on doing single leg squats for a form though, and those are fun :rolleyes:

Last time I benched, I put up 375, that was a slow descent with a touch to the chest, and then a slow ascent, almost got it twice. That was many moons ago as well, maybe I need to get back in the gym :confused:

[Frost]

I agree.
When I squat, I squat as low as I can TILL hips and waist basically touch, just a shy under parallel (depending on stance)BUT when I do serious weight and I KNOW that I can't make it, the squat becomes parallel at best, it is almost instinctive.
A true bench should touch the chest.
A DL should, to be legit, should be held for 2 seconds at least in the top position.
The thing is that, honestly, unless you are doing powerlifitng, it doesn't mean much.
I don't even know what my max are for sometime now.

I agree it doesn’t mean much unless you are competing, but likewise theres no point in talking about what you squat or bench unless its all under the same conditions,
And you are not alone everyone’s squat rises as the weight does lol, I have only met 1 person who regardless of weight always hits the same depth and its freaky to watch

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yeah, in terms of "functional, I don't ever recall exerting force from a "ass to grass" position.
When I pick ST exercises I try to pick ones that "mimic" the everyday things I do that would require strong muscles, that is why I do the overhead press, deadlfits, dips, curls, squats, pull ups and bench press.
I do like to be strong, so I do try to work with high weights but I don't really pay attention to number other than to chart progress and this is because I tend to not be able to train regualry ( which you must to get any decent numbers) and I can at times miss a whole month of ST when I focus more on MA.

[Frost]

its hard having two mistresses, you really need to consentrate on one thing to get really good, but it is nice being strongish :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

its hard having two mistresses, you really need to consentrate on one thing to get really good, but it is nice being strongish :)

Yeah, the thing is that I am not willing to compromise on one or the other, LOL !
Makes it even worse !
Still, MA is first and ST is second.
The good thing is that, strength gains are lost the least in terms of time.
What I mean is that our strength gains are lost at a far slower pace than lest say flexibility or stamina.
At least that has been my expereince.

[Frost]

Yeah, the thing is that I am not willing to compromise on one or the other, LOL !
Makes it even worse !
Still, MA is first and ST is second.
The good thing is that, strength gains are lost the least in terms of time.
What I mean is that our strength gains are lost at a far slower pace than lest say flexibility or stamina.
At least that has been my expereince.

nope you are correct thats been my expereince and others as well, you can also recover strength losses quicker as well, but building a level is different from maintaining it or recovering it unfortunatly :mad:

[Oso]

RL need for ATG squat = flipping an 8' hot tub from flat to on its edge. you have to grip the very bottom of the cabinet which is 1-4 inches off the ground. you also have your chest flat against the cabinet and as you lift, it moves away from you so you need to start with your feet as close to the base of the hot tub as possible so you don't end up leaning too far out as you lift. then you clean it, sorta...and then press.

true. i used to have vid of it on my youtube page...i'll repost is there and link later.

[MightyB]

you have those that bounce the weight so hard off their chest you fear they will break a rib,


Speaking of bouncing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJcd5cT66Yg&feature=player_embedded) the weight.

[IronFist]

Secondly no two people actually bench the same, you have those that bounce the weight so hard off their chest you fear they will break a rib, and you have those that don’t even touch the chest at all but only half bench and those that fall somewhere inbetween, again this makes me highly sceptical when talking numbers on the bench and if you haven’t benched under competition conditions its simply impossible to say with certainly what your bench is.

Don't forget about the people who try to hump the ceiling while they bench (lifting their butt off the bench, often very high up in the air).


And finally we come to the deadlift…the only lift you take peoples work on because its hard not to do this lift correctly: you only have to stand up with the bar…there’s no bouncing, no cheating depth you either make the lift or you don’t.
SO when people say they are squatting this or that I say great but what about your deadlift………

Well, you can hitch (pause and rest it on your thighs and then try to bounce it up a little at a time).

Squatting is hard and people would rather work out their egos (higher weights and partial reps) than take a bunch of weight off the bar and go all the way down.

Most gyms I've been to have a mirror in front of the squat rack, which kind of helps.

[IronFist]

Last time I benched, I put up 375, that was a slow descent with a touch to the chest, and then a slow ascent, almost got it twice. That was many moons ago as well, maybe I need to get back in the gym :confused:

Nice. How much did you weigh at the time?

[IronFist]

Oh, and on the topic of bad form, don't forget the people who only go down half way when doing pullups and brag about how they can do 20 reps :D

[Kevin73]

Oh, and on the topic of bad form, don't forget the people who only go down half way when doing pullups and brag about how they can do 20 reps :D

Or the kipping from hell crowd...


Just don't get me started on the fratboy wanna be crowd that does curls in the squat rack and they got toothpicks for legs because they only do curls and bench press.

[MightyB]

Speaking of bouncing (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJcd5cT66Yg&feature=player_embedded) the weight.

no comments? Seriously it's gotta be one of the most disgusting power lifting accidents of all time.

[Frost]

no comments? Seriously it's gotta be one of the most disgusting power lifting accidents of all time.

comments? it shouldnt have happened, i cant actually watch it again, spotters weent doing there job properly they should have been looking after the lifter its there responsibility

[sanjuro_ronin]

Oh, and on the topic of bad form, don't forget the people who only go down half way when doing pullups and brag about how they can do 20 reps :D

I have a 20 rep guy with me once, when he did the pull ups how I do them ( from dead hang to chest, hold and repeat), he barely did 12.

[YouKnowWho]

no comments?

人欺物勿令物欺人(Ren Qi Wu Wu Ling Wu Qi Ren) - We should defeat the weight and should never allow the weight to defeat us.

If you feel the weight is controlling you, you are using too much weight.

[IronFist]

人欺物勿令物欺人(Ren Qi Wu Wu Ling Wu Qi Ren) - We should defeat the weight and should never allow the weight to defeat us.

If you feel the weight is controlling you, you are using too much weight.

Pretty sure that's irrelevant to what was going on.

When you're trying to set a PR it's likely that you will just barely get it. And if it's too much, hopefully your spotters are there or you can rack the weight.

It looks like the bar just slipped out of his hands. Was he using an open grip? I don't want to watch it again to check.

[Oso]

first clip is two of us, my helper for 3 years, failing at the lift. yes, that's snow. and, the tile surface we were standing on was ice covered. you can see us slip on it in both clips i think.

fail (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EfBLEvSQKI&feature=plcp)

called in help for the win. 1 more person did the trick.

win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZere13lE78&feature=plcp)

If I remember right, that spa weighed 982 dry. the customer had let it freeze during a power outage, water drained out of the spa and into the cabinet, soaking and then freezing in the foam insulation. I don't know how much it weighed at the time of the lift. I do know that my helper and I could manage the lift on dry ground with no water as we were the ones who delivered the spa in the first place.

the camera could have been better positioned to show us lifting but we were on the side of a mountain, the slope behind us is mirrored on the downhill side.

ftr, i was in the middle of my time with crossfit and already irritated that with all the coaches talk of 'functional fitness' they hadn't the foggiest clue as to what it meant to actually apply maximal strength in real life.

I invited the male coach to work with me one day...even offered to buy him a paleo lunch at his restaurant of choice. declined.

[IronFist]

I have a 20 rep guy with me once, when he did the pull ups how I do them ( from dead hang to chest, hold and repeat), he barely did 12.

Honestly though, 12 is still about 11 more than most people can do.