View Full Version : Leg Trapping
YouKnowWho
09-20-2012, 01:01 PM
When your opponent runs in toward you and tries to knock your head off, a toe push kick on his chest or belly can not only stop his forward movement but also hurt him badly.
When you move into your opponent, you have to enter the kicking range before you can reach to the punching range. When you do that, you have to be sure not to be kicked by your opponent.
We have talked a lot about "arm trapping" in this forum. We don't have much discussion on "leg trapping". When your leg touch your opponent's leg, you can sense his leg intention. If you feel safe, you continue your advance movement. If you don't, you back up and start all over again.
The leg trapping principle is 100% offensive. IMO, there are many ways that you can do this:
1. Step on your opponent's leading leg knee (or upper leg).
2. Low roundhouse kick below your opponent's knee.
3. Low side kick at your opponent's leading leg knee (or shin bone).
4. Low reverse side kick at your opponent's leading leg knee (or shin bone).
5. Foot sweep at your opponent's leading leg.
6. Shin bite on the inside or outside of your opponent's ankle.
7. ...
As long as you can put your opponent in defensive mode, let him to worry about your kick, he will unlikely think about to kick you. As long as you can prevent your opponent from doing that single kick, you will have chance to pass the kicking range and get into the punching range. Whether your kick can hurt your opponent or not is not that important.
One of my friends likes to use 45 degree downward "flying side kick" to kick on his opponent's leading leg knee. When a 180 lb weight tries to drop on your knee joint, you will worry about your knee instead of how to counter attack your opponent at that moment.
Here is a short clip for "double leg trapping - knee step, foot sweep":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W5hxUupbJ8
Please share your favor leg trapping move during entering.
The leg trapping principle is 100% offensive. IMO, there are many ways that you can do this:
1. Step on your opponent's leading leg knee (or upper leg).
2. Low roundhouse kick below your opponent's knee.
3. Low side kick at your opponent's leading leg knee (or shin bone).
4. Low reverse side kick at your opponent's leading leg knee (or shin bone).
5. Foot sweep at your opponent's leading leg.
6. Shin bite on the inside or outside of your opponent's ankle.
7. ...
[...]
Please share your favor leg trapping move during entering.
Those big motions are ok, but not the first ones that come to mind when I think of leg trapping or controlling motions.
They do control the other person's legs to a degree.
I like the type that is shown in this clip of your teacher. Contact and press.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xbloSsKEm0
It's a more subtle method that can be used as part of footwork. Done properly, it is quick, deep, has no gap, and is hard to detect until it's too lste.
It can trap or block the other person's attack or escape, or it can just control for a split second.
That method can be used with inside or outside of upper leg or more shallow with lower leg. And it can be with lead or back leg depending on how you step.
It can be combined with upper attacking motions, which Mantis likes to do.
I was looking for a sc clip for an example of no gap, but happened to find that one which was even better for this discussion.
Most students are too gappy or too rough and crashing when they try to do that type of trap.
They don't have a feel for dominating the other person's space. They are flinchy, and try to control from outside the fighting space.
They need to engage like a ba-wang. Just walk right in like kicking ass and taking names.
I do use it in a defensive way too. Or maybe counter attacking.
For example, if the other person gives me a shin kick, I can step into the kick and leak my step along one side or the other of his kick. Then I step down and into his center of balance the way your teacher did. As my foot lands, the weight deflects and destabilizes the other person.
If I leak and control to his outside, I can also trap and attack at the same time with hands.
If I leak and deflect from his inside, I can just use groin kick up the center with the same leg on the rebound.
YouKnowWho
09-20-2012, 08:25 PM
I was only talking about kicking range leg trapping. You are talking about punching range and clinch range leg trapping. In punching/clinching range, almost all your leg skill such as cut, hook, spring, scoop, break, block, ... can be used for leg trapping. The close range leg trapping is very complicate and one can write a book about it.
Here is another punching/clinching range leg trapping (the shin bite and reverse shin bite).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2TmvH5gQuA
Vajramusti
09-20-2012, 08:46 PM
[QUOTE=-N-;1188605]Those big motions are ok, but not the first ones that come to mind when I think of leg trapping or controlling motions.
They do control the other person's legs to a degree.
I like the type that is shown in this clip of your teacher. Contact and press.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xbloSsKEm0
-------------------------------------------------
That is a good demo my Master Chang.
]
Here is another punching/clinching range leg trapping (the shin bite and reverse shin bite).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2TmvH5gQuA
I really like that one.
If you can do it with running footwork while throwing jab-cross-whatever, and connect with shin bite without crashing the legs, it is a thing of beauty :)
I was only talking about kicking range leg trapping. You are talking about punching range and clinch range leg trapping.
Right. Well from the longer range, I just think of it as kicking. We try to close quickly, then the close range is more important for us so the other person can't recover.
But from kicking range, I use your #2 method a lot, and continue into what you called "shin bite".
Also shin kick, jump front kick, running step, low roundhouse sequence.
Another opening that works well for me is jump midlevel roundhouse with the back leg, running step, jump grab and punch downward from high position. That worked so well that I made myself stop using it in sparring.
In punching/clinching range, almost all your leg skill such as cut, hook, spring, scoop, break, block, ... can be used for leg trapping. The close range leg trapping is very complicate and one can write a book about it.
That's why I said you should start this thread, haha. Much more interesting than internet chi arguments.
Mantis likes to control and hit. It is aggressive, but in a cautious way. It stacks the odds in its favor. It doesn't attack recklessly. The leg control is a useful part of controlling the opponent.
Funny story when my teacher first taught me that. The class was working on attack combinations. Typical Mantis hand stuff. He checked to see if I was doing correctly. Then he did it to me and added a very sllght leg trap. He didn't say anything at all, and just looked at me.
He saw a flash of recognition in my eyes, and then he just turned around and walked away with a slight grin. He never did explain it to the class.
YouKnowWho
09-20-2012, 10:47 PM
I really like that one.
If you can do it with running footwork while throwing jab-cross-whatever, and connect with shin bite without crashing the legs, it is a thing of beauty :)
I'll try jab and corss and see how it may work.
I like to use a right hook punch to set up the 1st shin bite. When my opponent dodge it, I then use my right forearm to push on his right upper arm. This will jam his right arm completely. Most of the time because the distance, I have to move my left foot next to my right foot (it's not done in that clip), so I can advance my right foot. When I do that, I'll extend my left arm across my opponent's neck.
The leg trapping principle is 100% offensive.
How would you call kicking the kick?
When the guy does shin kick, you do side kick or shin kick or roundhouse against his kick. Then you follow up.
Or like I said before, when he does shin kick, you leak and "shin bite".
Or he does low roundhouse, you leak and come back faster with your own low roundhouse when his leg passes.
I like to use a right hook punch to set up the 1st shin bite. When my opponent dodge it, I then use my right forearm to push on his right upper arm. This will jam his right arm conpletely. Most of the time because the distance, I have to move my left foot next to my right foot (it's not done in that clip), so I can advance my right foot. When I do that, I'll extend my left arm across my opponent's neck.
Nice.
You might like opening with the straight attacks. It has to be fierce so that the person is only thinking about getting the hell out of there. Most people start to get unbalanced backwards. Then you can chase with the 2 shin bite combinations.
If you control with one forearm as you punch with the other side, you have upper and lower 2 point control for your throw/trip. Not as solid as full grappling, but the entry speed is in your favor. The punch also creates split second mental control.
Your left foot shift to right foot afjustment is something that people will see in 2 person form vs. 1 person form. To revisit that whole discussion, haha.
YouKnowWho
09-20-2012, 11:07 PM
The longfist, there is a very interest "chain kicks". When you use it on your opponent, not only you can step on his knee, if he pulls that leg back and kick you, you can step on his knee again.
In SC, there is a very important drill and that is to kick your foot back and touch your hip. When your opponent uses low roundhouse kick below your knee, you just bend your leg back at your knee joint to let his kick to pass through. You then sweep his kicking leg.
YouKnowWho
09-20-2012, 11:13 PM
You might like opening with the straight attacks. It has to be fierce so that the person is only thinking about getting the hell out of there.
Agree! This is why in the 1st 10 second of the fight, you have to give 100% power and speed on your punches and kicks. After your opponent feels your power and speed and you have earned his respect, you can just wave your hand or leg, he may jump back.
In SC, there is a very important drill and that is to kick your foot back and touch your hip. When your opponent uses low roundhouse kick below your knee, you just bend your leg back at your knee joint to let his kick to pass through. You then sweep his kicking leg.
Useful.
I do a few different followup. Sometimes sweep. Sometimes kick the leg. Sometimes trip his leg as he lands, and make him take too big a step and get stuck so I can hit him.
Agree! This is why in the 1st 10 second of the fight, you have to give 100% power and speed on your punches and kicks. After your opponent feels your power and speed and you have earned his respect, you can just wave your hand or leg, he may jump back.
Haha. Train him to flinch.
When my sihing and I sparred people that stay far and don't engage. We would kick the fingers of their lead hand, or kick their elbow from underneath if their guard was too straight.
Made them flinchy :)
YouKnowWho
09-20-2012, 11:25 PM
To a low roundhouse kick, sometime I like to turn my shin bone to meet his leg. If my opponent's shin bone is not as hard as mine, he won't kick again. The nice thing about it is when my opponent feels pain, I can use my back leg to hook his standing leg and take him down right at that moment. Of course I have to jam his arms when I do that.
I love to drop elbow on my opponent's kicking leg. It always has good result.
To a low roundhouse kick, sometime I like to turn my shin bone to meet his leg.
Ok, how about when he uses low roundhouse/sweep to your leg, you intercept and rebound him with your calf, then steal step to catch his other leg with your same leg.
Less bone against bone. Nice surprise if he thinks his shin bone is tough. You use ngun lik instead of crashing.
Bacon
09-20-2012, 11:41 PM
The best kickers are the ones you learn to counter kicks from, Thai boxers and kickboxers.
What do they do?
Footwork and distance
Check the kick with the shin
Block the head
Counter kick
Catch the kick and sweep
If my opponent's shin bone is not as hard as mine, he won't kick again. The nice thing about it is when my opponent feels pain, I can use my back leg to hook his standing leg and take him down right at that moment.
Another funny story...
When my teacher sparred his classmates they all would try not to show pain reaction when they landed shin kicks on each other. They would just stand there like the kick was nothing.
My teacher then would circle a couple steps. The other guy would adjust position, but if he limped, my teacher would laugh because he knew the other guy felt it.
The best kickers are the ones you learn to counter kicks from, Thai boxers and kickboxers.
What do they do?
Footwork and distance
Check the kick with the shin
Block the head
Counter kick
Catch the kick and sweep
Muay thai has some nice moves.
The leg trapping principle is 100% offensive. IMO, there are many ways that you can do this:
1. Step on your opponent's leading leg knee (or upper leg).
2. Low roundhouse kick below your opponent's knee.
3. Low side kick at your opponent's leading leg knee (or shin bone).
4. Low reverse side kick at your opponent's leading leg knee (or shin bone).
5. Foot sweep at your opponent's leading leg.
6. Shin bite on the inside or outside of your opponent's ankle.
7. ...
[...]
Please share your favor leg trapping move during entering.
Continous running and low kicking. Almost like dribbling a soccer ball, but with more force.
I have the students practice against each other so it's automatic and they don't need to think about kicking when they close in.
YouKnowWho
09-22-2012, 01:17 PM
Continous running and low kicking. Almost like dribbling a soccer ball, but with more force.
I have the students practice against each other so it's automatic and they don't need to think about kicking when they close in.
Many people said that each step should be a kick, and each kick should be a step. But I just don't see peole train this way serious enough.
One of my favor training is to move my leading foot on the ground in a counter clockwise circle followed by a clockwise circle. By using these 2 circles, my leg should be able to hit my opponent's leading leg.
Many people said that each step should be a kick, and each kick should be a step. But I just don't see peole train this way serious enough.
Just spent the first half of this morning's class working with a student on making his stepping and kicking more natural and interchangeable. Worked the single kicks, identified the relaxation points, tied the kicks together by their recoils, then combined different kicks by overlapping the neutral relaxation points. Switched to the step setup and step followup on individual kicks, then to just continuous running step. From there it went to combined interchangeable running and kicking. Then cleaned up the initial explosive launch into the attack.
Rest of class was similar idea but with attacking hand motions.
One of my favor training is to move my leading foot on the ground in a counter clockwise circle followed by a clockwise circle. By using these 2 circles, my leg should be able to hit my opponent's leading leg.
Is this like front sweep back sweep with steal step in between to chase?
Kind of like in Mantis with chao tui steal step dun pak combo?
Many people said that each step should be a kick, and each kick should be a step. But I just don't see peole train this way serious enough.
Many times in sparring videos, there is no continuous attack or sparring. It's just single kick/punch and reset like playing tag. Never gets to free flowing stepping/running/kicking.
YouKnowWho
09-22-2012, 02:36 PM
It's more like "shin bite" than "sweep". The old teacher used to ask his student to catch grasshoppers to feed bird (Old Chinese liked to carry a bird cage). By using this leg moves, you can force the grasshopper to jump up. You then catch with your hand. It not only train your footwork, it also train your sharp eye and quick hand.
YouKnowWho
09-22-2012, 02:41 PM
Many times in sparring videos, there is no continuous attack or sparring. It's just single kick/punch and reset like playing tag. Never gets to free flowing stepping/running/kicking.
That the most problem in combat. When you opponent kicks you, you just want to kick back to prove that you can kick too. You respond to your opponent's move without any "plan".
It's more like "shin bite" than "sweep". The old teacher used to ask his student to catch grasshoppers to feed bird (Old Chinese liked to carry a bird cage). By using this leg moves, you can force the grasshopper to jump up. You then catch with your hand. It not only train your footwork, it also train your sharp eye and quick hand.
Oh, that is like our chao tui. Scooping up and lifting.
Is shin bite the standard SC name? What is it in Chinese?
I can picture the grasshopper exercise, haha.
That the most problem in combat. When you opponent kicks you, you just want to kick back to prove that you can kick too. You respond to your opponent's move without any "plan".
Gotta practice the automatic combos.
YouKnowWho
09-22-2012, 03:07 PM
Is shin bite the standard SC name? What is it in Chinese?
The "咬(Yao) - shin bite" is also called "撿(Jian) - leg seize". By using the name "leg seize", you try to hide your "bite" intention because you can seize your opponent's leg by "撮(Cuo) - scooping kick " as well.
So the "leg seize" is the general term. The "shin bite" and "scooping kick" are more detail.
YouKnowWho
09-22-2012, 03:09 PM
Gotta practice the automatic combos.
The low roundhouse kick followed by stealing step with the same leg side kick to the knee will be a good combo.
The low roundhouse kick followed by stealing step with the same leg side kick to the knee will be a good combo.
Yep.
Kid tries here, but didn't land.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/temp-200-75813500_zps4b730025.gif
The "咬(Yao) - shin bite" is also called "撿(Jian) - leg seize". By using the name "leg seize", you try to hide your "bite" intention because you can seize your opponent's leg by "撮(Cuo) - scooping kick " as well.
So the "leg seize" is the general term. The "shin bite" and "scooping kick" are more detail.
Cool. Thanks.
YouKnowWho
09-22-2012, 08:00 PM
Yep.
Kid tries here, but didn't land.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/temp-200-75813500_zps4b730025.gif
Whether you land it or not is not important. as long as you can put your opponent in defensive mode, it will give you a safe entry.
Whether you land it or not is not important. as long as you can put your opponent in defensive mode, it will give you a safe entry.
Yep, he should have followed up while he had a chance.
Btw, the green shirt kid shows a type of retreat footwork seen in our spear against staff 2 person form.
Against the single kick and advance, he does right foot retreat, left foot retreat, but staying close enough so the kick barely misses.
As soon as his left foot touches the ground, he uses that contact to jump back forward for a chance to attack.
This is the footwork for escape and quickly turning the fight.
He didn't need the left foot retreat, but he thought the other guy was going to come in more aggressive. Like you said, if you wave your hand and make the guy jump back.
He realized his mistake, so he escapes the second time with jumping shift back which is shallower. Also a type of training from the form for distance adjustment.
The other guy also realized his own mistake of not pressuring the attack, so this time he added the footwork and second kick.
Lots of interesting details there.
The leg trapping principle is 100% offensive. IMO, there are many ways that you can do this:
1. Step on your opponent's leading leg knee (or upper leg).
Here is kick to upper leg to control opponent's attack.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/stopkicks.gif
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/kf2_a_GIFSoup_com.gif
mooyingmantis
09-24-2012, 03:42 PM
-N-,
Nice clips and explanations!
I like the type that is shown in this clip of your teacher. Contact and press.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xbloSsKEm0
YKW's Sifu was Cháng Dōngshēng? Or was that somebody else that looked like him? Grainy vid, but I'm sure I already saw that one a few years ago. That guy was an ox. Much respect.
What's a shin bite? is it just a shin kick?
YouKnowWho
09-24-2012, 04:46 PM
YKW's Sifu was Cháng Dōngshēng? Or was that somebody else that looked like him? Grainy vid, but I'm sure I already saw that one a few years ago. That guy was an ox. Much respect.
What's a shin bite? is it just a shin kick?
That clip was David C. K. Lin. This picture was him did "shin bite" on me.
http://imageshack.us/a/img52/3005/changlegseize.jpg
The shin bite is to use your shin bone to press the inside (or outside) of your opponent's leg to take him down. Most of the time, you just force your opponent to move his leading leg back (put him in defense mode) so you can take advantage on his weight shifting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoiL1Cj4lt8
YKW's Sifu was Cháng Dōngshēng?
Yes.
(10 characters)
The shin bite is to use your shin bone to press the inside (or outside) of your opponent's leg to take him down. Most of the time, you just force your opponent to move his leading leg back (put him in defense mode) so you can take advantage on his weight shifting.
One partner training we have for this is to step and lock the other person's horse stance, shin against shin.
Each person tries to pressure the other one down for about 30-60 seconds. Then one steps back and the other advances and locks the other side, etc. Keep going until you are done.
In usage, we might step and snap on the shin bite for a split second to control/destabilze the person while attacking with other stuff.
For example, jab, jab, shin bite, cross. Or slip his punch, shin bite, jab to the body, uppercut. Or snap the shin bite, then low kick when he tries to escape.
Sima Rong
09-24-2012, 05:56 PM
That clip was David C. K. Lin. This picture was him did "shin bite" on me.
http://imageshack.us/a/img52/3005/changlegseize.jpg
The shin bite is to use your shin bone to press the inside (or outside) of your opponent's leg to take him down. Most of the time, you just force your opponent to move his leading leg back (put him in defense mode) so you can take advantage on his weight shifting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoiL1Cj4lt8
My instructor of Songshan Shaolin has taught me to do this. He said I can practise quickly stepping towards, and using my foot and shin to hook and press around a small tree. I might try metal signposts, to avoid small tree murder. Useful for solo practice?
So the main thing with this is to get the opponent moving back, disrupting their stance, or causing them to change stance, while you keep moving forward into them and taking advantage of their weakened position?
YouKnowWho
09-24-2012, 07:38 PM
jab, jab, shin bite, cross.
That's a good strategy. If your opponent is not familiar with it, it can confuse him big time.
YouKnowWho
09-24-2012, 07:45 PM
My instructor of Songshan Shaolin has taught me to do this. He said I can practise quickly stepping towards, and using my foot and shin to hook and press around a small tree. I might try metal signposts, to avoid small tree murder. Useful for solo practice?
So the main thing with this is to get the opponent moving back, disrupting their stance, or causing them to change stance, while you keep moving forward into them and taking advantage of their weakened position?
If you can put up a PVC pipe on the ground, it may be better than a small tree or metal sign pole. The metal sign pole is good fo pole hanging and sticky leg training though.
The shin bite always followed by either a hook or spring on the other leg.
Sima Rong
09-24-2012, 08:17 PM
If you can put up a PVC pipe on the ground, it may be better than a small tree or metal sign pole. The metal sign pole is good fo pole hanging and sticky leg training though.
The shin bite always followed by either a hook or spring on the other leg.
Thanks for the advice! I'm not really sure what a hook or spring is though.
Does sanda teach this kind of stuff by the way? My instructor teaches this too, and I'm wondering whether to get into it.
YouKnowWho
09-24-2012, 08:37 PM
Thanks for the advice! I'm not really sure what a hook or spring is though.
Does sanda teach this kind of stuff by the way? My instructor teaches this too, and I'm wondering whether to get into it.
The "shin bite" can force your opponent to shift weight on his back leg when he pulls that leading leg back.
This is "得合(De He) - inner hook". When your opponent shifts all his weight on one leg, if you hook that leg, he will be down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFThJtI9_1E
This is "弹拧(Tang Ning) - twist and spring". When your opponent shifts all his weight on one leg, if you spring that leg, he will be down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeWNE0KghW8
Sanda teachers got this from Shuai Chiao (Chinese wrestling).
Sima Rong
09-24-2012, 08:53 PM
Wow, thanks a lot! Will practise and try it out. :)
That clip was David C. K. Lin. This picture was him did "shin bite" on me.
http://imageshack.us/a/img52/3005/changlegseize.jpg
The shin bite is to use your shin bone to press the inside (or outside) of your opponent's leg to take him down. Most of the time, you just force your opponent to move his leading leg back (put him in defense mode) so you can take advantage on his weight shifting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoiL1Cj4lt8
Oh ok. I didn't know people called that a shin bite. I've used it in wrestling and sub grappling. I like it too. If you're strong enough you can really hurt somebody without taking them down. Or you can floor em and pounce. A friend of mine hurt herself trying it on somebody way too big in practice. You can do it from any angle. Depending on where you come in and which leg and where your opponent is facing, your options change.
Have you not tried it from the front? Shin on Shin? If your conditioned enough, it works.
Have you not tried it from the front? Shin on Shin? If your conditioned enough, it works.
That's the transition from seven star step to bow and arrow stance.
We do partner exercise in various stance positions and try to lever the other guy down while he resists.
YouKnowWho
09-25-2012, 08:42 PM
Have you not tried it from the front? Shin on Shin? If your conditioned enough, it works.
It definitely will work if your shin is stronger than your opponent's. You just don't have much advantage since both you and your opponent's leg can bend forward exactly the same way. Since we can't generate much force by bending our knee sideway, The "forward knee bending" always has advantage over the "sideway knee bending".
Since this doesn't require you to carry any of your opponent's body weight, I call it "lazy person throw". It works very well from the "head lock" or "hip throw" position. The moment that your opponent tries to step out of your hip contact, the moment that you bite on his leg.
TroyMacraft
09-25-2012, 08:45 PM
Good explanation YouKnowWho: "The nice thing about it is when my opponent feels pain, I can use my back leg to hook his standing leg and take him down right at that moment. Of course I have to jam his arms when I do that."
I have actually used this for about 10 years know and didn't ever see in written down. This works very well.
YouKnowWho
09-25-2012, 08:56 PM
Oh ok. I didn't know people called that a shin bite. I've used it in wrestling and sub grappling. I like it too.
What will a wrestler, Judo guy, or sub grappler call it?
It definitely will work if your shin is stronger than your opponent's. You just don't have much advantage since both you and your opponent's leg can bend forward exactly the same way. Since we can't generate much force by bending our knee sideway, The "forward knee bending" always has advantage over the "sideway knee bending".
Since this doesn't require you to carry any of your opponent's body weight, I call it "lazy person throw". It works very well from the "head lock" or "hip throw" position. The moment that your opponent tries to step out of your hip contact, the moment that you bite on his leg.
No doubt... The idea is to sweep in and press in a fluid motion. Being first is important so you have the advantage of surprise. I've seen some cool variations that end in pushes with the arms and shoulders. Almost like a bad ass football tackle near the armpit where the guy soars back but you stay standing. In wrestling we used it to force position and ride into a top position. If I see a clip I'll post it.
I feel like I should have another name for it, but I don't. Sorry. Somebody will know tho, I've seen it around. Is shin bite an americanized name or is it a direct translation from Chinese? I can see why you call it that. I like it. lol
Yes.
(10 characters)
OK wait. So yes Chang Dongsheng was his teacher but that was David C. K. Lin in the clip and I guessed his Sifu right by thinking one guy was another guy and even tho I was wrong it was still right? Does that mean Lin was a student of Chang? And Lin was YKWs Sifu and Chang is YKWs Sigung then?
Sorry, just playing catch-up :D
YouKnowWho
09-26-2012, 01:42 AM
David C. K. Lin and I have the same teacher. When I said that was Lin in that clip, I mean the young guy been thrown by that old man was Lin.
The following clip was my teacher threw me. When I was young, Lin's body shape was similiar to mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X23Qbib7cWw
The shin bite is a direct translation from Chinese name "咬(Yao) - bite".
So you learned from Chang Dongsheng in Taiwan? When you came here did you stop? How old are you now?
YouKnowWho
09-26-2012, 02:21 AM
So you learned from Chang Dongsheng in Taiwan? When you came here did you stop? How old are you now?
Yes! But SC is not my only style. I trained striking art too. I got my medicare card last year. :o
Please share your favor leg trapping move during entering.
A few more:
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/temp-200-64352669.gif
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/temp-200-62198638.gif
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/temp-200-32478703.gif
We train these on the heavy bag for the speed of the footwork and the stability and power of the upper attacks.
YouKnowWho
09-26-2012, 12:41 PM
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/temp-200-64352669.gif
I like that "引针腰斩- waist chop" too. It's the same as "撮(Cuo) - scooping kick", you can apply on your opponent's
- leading leg, but you have to get his back arm.
- back leg, this way you only need to get his leading arm.
I think leading arm back leg "撮(Cuo) - scooping kick" (waist chop) may be a bit easier to apply if your leading leg can reach your opponent's back leg.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/temp-200-64352669.gif
I like that "引针腰斩- waist chop" too.
Hard to see in the clip, but that one is wrist lock/break leg trap and elbow lock/break leg trap combination.
I think leading arm back leg "撮(Cuo) - scooping kick" (waist chop) may be a bit easier to apply if your leading leg can reach your opponent's back leg.
We like lead leg to opponent back leg, lead arm to opponent back arm. That way you really twist him. We can use right bow and arrow step like your teacher here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xbloSsKEm0
Combine with right arm to right arm cross grab and left punch to face.
Please share your favor leg trapping move during entering.
Since your lead leg is the opponent's entering strategy,---
We are always ready to move our lead leg back or to the side.
Or just raise knee.
However,
In Ba Ji, you move close to me. I move even closer to you at the same time.
The opponent is out of kicking or hooking leg range.
We are in each other's faces.
Elbow, knee, shoulder and butt taking over.
Kao away.
In short, we move closer and not away.
:cool:
Michael Dasargo
10-03-2012, 08:05 AM
I just introduced some Mantis Boxing Gou Bu tripping techniques to my students:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlgkC09lWC0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMoheLPVUyk
I just introduced some Mantis Boxing Gou Bu tripping techniques to my students:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlgkC09lWC0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMoheLPVUyk
Nice entry with the hook step (7 star step).
Convenient followup can be shin bite into circle entering step.
Or ankle pick, jump into dun pak take down. Similar to Small Framework Form where crossgrab punch kick jumps into dip jang takedown near the end.
Good to see Christian still training!
That's the transition from seven star step to bow and arrow stance.
We do partner exercise in various stance positions and try to lever the other guy down while he resists.
BTW, I meant to ask awhile ago.... What's the 7star step(I see you called it a hook step)? Anything to do with 7star mantis? Got sidetracked with YKW's lineage :D
I am familiar with many steps and stances, but I can't name them all, and sometimes there is like 40 names for one thing.
YouKnowWho
10-04-2012, 09:40 PM
What's the 7star step?
Heel down, toes up, knee bend.
The "knee bend" is important. Some people keep knee straight which is wrong.
This is not 7 star.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi8dR-IEbcc
Heel down, toes up, knee bend.
The "knee bend" is important. Some people keep knee straight which is wrong.
This is not 7 star.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi8dR-IEbcc
I would hate to get side stomped with my front toe up but knee not bent... UUgg ouch!!! :eek:
BTW, I meant to ask awhile ago.... What's the 7star step(I see you called it a hook step)? Anything to do with 7star mantis? Got sidetracked with YKW's lineage :D
I am familiar with many steps and stances, but I can't name them all, and sometimes there is like 40 names for one thing.
Mike D. calls it gou bu which looks like romanization for "hook step". Some Mantis will call it 7 Star step.
It is a transitional step that can be used for hooking, tripping, or trapping the other person's footwork.
Some people do it in a very static or dead way, or they just stand there posing in a stance. To me, that is a sign of not having progressed past the beginner stage of learning rudimentary basic form.
I want my students to be able to whip out a 7 Star step while in a full sprint and transition to leg trap/control smoothly without stumble or hesitation. Otherwise it won't be fully useable in a fight.
Sima Rong
10-04-2012, 10:22 PM
Great stepping technique drills Michael Dasargo! Every time I learn something from the videos!
I know this is not the same Seven Star, it's Shaolin Seven Star boxing, but are these three sweeping kicks at around 0:26 a similar thing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2awOCDRtrc
Great stepping technique drills Michael Dasargo! Every time I learn something from the videos!
I know this is not the same Seven Star, it's Shaolin Seven Star boxing, but are these three sweeping kicks at around 0:26 a similar thing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2awOCDRtrc
When you see single leg stance, it can be a knee attack. It can also be a raising hooking leg trap or throw. You can see by his hands that he is throwing. You can enter from 7 star step.
Here is wrist lock with single leg stance throw. The person escapes and is chased down with americana lock variation and circle entering step takedown. That is the speed it needs to be applied to be useable.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/temp-200-64352669.gif
Here is 7 star step.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/d3822a89.jpg
Here is single leg.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/img_memorial2.gif
Here is circle entering.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b76/Mr_Ugly/7b45a6854e97c4b2a8e15defc873e498.jpg
Gotcha. Thanx. I am familiar with the movement. never heard it called Hook Step or 7Star Step. The problem is that I always get the Chinese names and I can never remember them. lol. They try, I just have trouble remembering Chinese words. I'm bad with names in general. I'm always busy thinking about the move when they are trying to teach me names. I always end up making up funny names that sound like what I was told they are.
Is it called hook step coz it sweeps out(or in, depending on your perspective)?
When you say americana, you talkin key lock? Reverse of what the gracies call a kimura?
Is it called hook step coz it sweeps out(or in, depending on your perspective)?
When you say americana, you talkin key lock? Reverse of what the gracies call a kimura?
I've always known it as 7 star step. In Cantonese, it's chut sing bo.
Lots of terms. More important to remember/know the usage of the move.
Yes, Americana, keylock, paintbrush. The one where the hand is up instead of down.
Funny that a Praying Mantis TCMA form has an Americana with takedown in it. A lot of people don't know that about that move in the set. Everyone assumes that it is a weird palm strike. Mantis likes to snap that grapple move in place for the damage.
YouKnowWho
10-05-2012, 12:14 AM
three sweeping kicks at around 0:26 a similar thing? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2awOCDRtrc
Around 0:26 is "粘(Zhan) - sticking kick".
The following 4 moves should be trained as a group and should be trained in the order of 1,2,3,4.
1. 撮(Cuo) - scooping kick (7 star stance).
2. 咬(Yao) - Shin Bite.
3. 粘(Zhan) - sticking kick.
4. 踢(Ti) - forward kick (foot sweep).
Many people train "踢(Ti) - forward kick (foot sweep)" before others. They can never master their "踢(Ti) - forward kick (foot sweep)" that way.
Around 0:26 is "粘(Zhan) - sticking kick". You can notice the bending knee. It's different from the foot sweep which the knee is locked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2awOCDRtrc
Sticking is a good method to use with the leg trapping.
Better than crashing and knocking the leg out of your control.
Michael Dasargo
10-05-2012, 09:13 AM
Nice entry with the hook step (7 star step).
Convenient followup can be shin bite into circle entering step.
Or ankle pick, jump into dun pak take down. Similar to Small Framework Form where crossgrab punch kick jumps into dip jang takedown near the end.
Good to see Christian still training!
Thanks breda. Yeah, Chan is a good kid, but my tiger Mom side sees the B+ student who doesn't study. He can be so much better.
I've only recently started calling it hook step, because then we spend more time doing reps than having to answer the question, "why is it called 7 star step?"
But yeah, proper term in TLQ is 7 Star.
Less DO! More TALKIE! said no Sifu ever.
Mike D.
Thanks breda. Yeah, Chan is a good kid, but my tiger Mom side sees the B+ student who doesn't study. He can be so much better.
"We born you here in America, just so you can get B+ ?!!?!??" :mad:
The following 4 moves should be trained as a group and should be trained in the order of 1,2,3,4.
1. 撮(Cuo) - scooping kick (7 star stance).
2. 咬(Yao) - Shin Bite.
3. 粘(Zhan) - sticking kick.
4. 踢(Ti) - forward kick (foot sweep).
Nice. I can see how that will develop good skill more quickly.
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