Shaolin Kung Fu Basics

[tattooedmonk]

This is what I teach to my beginning students , I do not teach anything else until these can be done properly. The are just the requirements, not the curriculum. And of course each class has warm up exercises , various forms of conditioning, sparring/ applications , etc.

What do you all think?

10 Stances - BU FA
10 Kicks/ legs - TUI FA
10 Blocks/elbows – LAN FA
10 Punches/hands - QUAN FA
10 Rolls/falls - SHUAI FA
10 Sweeps/throws/takedowns - JIAO FA
10 Ground skills - TU FA
10 Special skils – YI FA

If you would like to know the specifics of any of these areas I will be more than happy to answer them.

[Bacon]

10 rolls/falls? I did judo, jujitsu, and aikido, got thrown every which way and I only ever needed two!

[tattooedmonk]

..there are many variations.

Just like a ball; roll and bounce anywhere, in any direction to roll and fall from any angle.

Try doing a forward shoulder roll diagonally across your on the right and left , or a fall, or backward rolls from hip to shoulder, these are the variations.

Tell me they arent physiologically and psychologically different.

My favorite is the Tootsie Roll!:p

[Bacon]

..there are many variations.

Just like a ball; roll and bounce anywhere, in any direction to roll and fall from any angle.

Try doing a forward shoulder roll diagonally across your on the right and left , or a fall, or backward rolls from hip to shoulder, these are the variations.

Tell me they arent physiologically and psychologically different.

My favorite is the Tootsie Roll!:p

Well the only ones I've ever needed are the forward break fall (rolling and jumping versions) where the power travels diagonally across from the arm to the opposite leg, and the back breakfall (rolling and jumping versions). From there I can get thrown forward backward, left, right, or diagonally and be fine.

[tattooedmonk]

Well the only ones I've ever needed are the forward break fall (rolling and jumping versions) where the power travels diagonally across from the arm to the opposite leg, and the back breakfall (rolling and jumping versions). From there I can get thrown forward backward, left, right, or diagonally and be fine.I get what you are saying , thats fine. do what you do for you.

I have my concerns about only training only two,but to each his own.

Mine are broken down a little bit more than that. Most people are afraid to fall, roll , be thrown or anything like that. Preparing them for it really involves a much more systemized and scientific approach psychologically and physiologically.

[Featherstone]

it's funny, the best place I learned to break fall in was the kitchen. The floors would get slick after a busy night! front, side and back were common falls due to water, food, silverware, moving to fast in crowded areas and all sometimes just because. :D

[pazman]

What are special skills?

What style is this?

[Empty_Cup]

This is what I teach to my beginning students , I do not teach anything else until these can be done properly. The are just the requirements, not the curriculum. And of course each class has warm up exercises , various forms of conditioning, sparring/ applications , etc.

What do you all think?

10 Stances - BU FA
10 Kicks/ legs - TUI FA
10 Blocks/elbows – LAN FA
10 Punches/hands - QUAN FA
10 Rolls/falls - SHUAI FA
10 Sweeps/throws/takedowns - JIAO FA
10 Ground skills - TU FA
10 Special skils – YI FA

If you would like to know the specifics of any of these areas I will be more than happy to answer them.

I'm interested in the details. Can you send me a PM?

[Lucas]

I first learned to fall / break fall by skateboarding for 13 years. When I started cma, it was already an old hat, but one that was refined. For instance, depending on why you are falling/rollilng, like if you are thrown you do not want to wrap your bottom leg under your top leg, as your top leg could smash your bottom leg and do serious damage, but if you are simply doing a diving forward roll, if you cross the bottom leg under out of the roll and have your top leg come sole of the foot down with the knee up, you can get to your feet much faster, and since you initiated the roll and were not thrown, the danger isn't really present. My favorite was diving over a staff held at upper waist/lower chest hight and rolling out on concrete.

The way I learned to roll in CMA was different than JMA.

[Lucas]

if you havnt sent that pm i would like one too :D

[pazman]

Oh wait...is this some kind of Shaolin Do thing?

[tattooedmonk]

What I have shared here is with basic english terminology.

Nothing more , nothing less.

Once again if you have a question or want to discuss details or would like Chinese characters / terminology, I will be happy to provide you with them.

This list is in no way complete or the end all and be all of martial arts basics training .

This is what I have used for many years now and it seems to be working fine with me and my students....

Enjoy.

Stances

1. Natural
2. Horse
3. Forward Fighting
4. Forward bow
5. Cross
6. Reverse bow
7. Reverse fighting
8. Kneeling
9. Toe
10. Single leg

Blocks/Elbows

1. Upward
2. Inward
3. Outward
4. Downward
5. Outward
6. Reverse
7. Rising
8. Sinking
9. Across
10. Back


Kicks / Legs

1. Knee
2. Straight
3. Front
4. Round
5. Side
6. Hook
7. Inside crescent
8. Outside crescent
9. Back
10. Cross

Punches/ Hands

1. Vertical fist
2. Horizontal fist
3. Back fist
4. Uppercut fist
5. Hammer fist
6. Vertical side hand
7. Horizontal side hand (palm down)
8. Horizontal side hand (palm up)
9. Vertical palm hand
10. Ridge hand

Falls /Rolls

1. Back fall
2. Side fall-left
3. Side fall-right
4. Forward fall
5. Forward roll- left
6. Forward roll -right
7. Backward roll- left
8. Backward roll- right
9. Side roll-left
10. Side roll- right

Ground Positions

1. East/West
2. West /East
3. South/North
4. North/South
5. Mounted /supine
6. Guarded/top
7. Guard/bottom
8. Mount /supine
9. Mounted/ prone
10. Mount/ prone

Throws/ sweeps/take downs

1. Front sweep-left/-right
2. Back sweep-left/right
3. Arm scissors take down-left/right
4. Arm/Shoulder throw-left/right
5. Hip throw-left/right
6. Double/ single leg take down- all sides
7. Leg scissor sweep- low/ high
8. Inside hook sweep- left/ right
9. Outside hook sweep-left/ right
10. 2 arm throw-left /right

Special maneuvers-

1. Turn right- changing directions
2. Turn left- changing directions
3. Step forward- alternating sides
4. Step backward- alternating sides
5. Shuffle step forward- same side
6. Shuffle step back ward- same side
7. Cross step in front- advancing
8. Cross step in front- retreating
9. Cross step behind- advancing
10. Cross step behind- retreating

[tattooedmonk]

Oh wait...is this some kind of Shaolin Do thing?UHHH no:cool::D

[rett]

Why exactly 10 of everything? Why not 9 or 11?

[jdhowland]

The number of each category looks like a mnemonic device. Useful for your group if it helps to remember what basics to cover in each practice. It seems to value completeness and predictability. It reminds me of the ba kua/eight directions designations in some systems.

But honestly, for my type of training it would be far too many techniques to treat as basic. For example, we spend a lot of time in the beginning developing power from the back, waist rotation and limb extension without being too concerned with a particular hand technique.

A student would do well in the first year of training to learn just three or four techniques from each category. Variations can come later after strength and balance have improved.

[tattooedmonk]

Just a good round number that everyone can remember. 10 gives a sense of completeness . this list has everything that is needed to instill proper basics .:D

[pazman]

So....what style of Shaolin is this?


What style of Shaolin has ground positions?

Do you really think learning 10 throws to be basic?

[Songshan]

This is what I teach to my beginning students , I do not teach anything else until these can be done properly. The are just the requirements, not the curriculum. And of course each class has warm up exercises , various forms of conditioning, sparring/ applications , etc.

What do you all think?

10 Stances - BU FA
10 Kicks/ legs - TUI FA
10 Blocks/elbows – LAN FA
10 Punches/hands - QUAN FA
10 Rolls/falls - SHUAI FA
10 Sweeps/throws/takedowns - JIAO FA
10 Ground skills - TU FA
10 Special skils – YI FA

If you would like to know the specifics of any of these areas I will be more than happy to answer them.

My advice for whatever it's worth. That curriculum seems a bit much for a new student. You are asking them to learn 80 skills before moving to a higher level. Is this broken down into levels or ranks?

What style of "Shaolin" is this? Northern, Southern or is this Shaolin Do? Either way I have nothing against Shaolin Do. I just think you should be straight forward so other practitioners of the same style can give feedback.

[tattooedmonk]

So....what style of Shaolin is this?


What style of Shaolin has ground positions?

Do you really think learning 10 throws to be basic? I teach some southern and northern styles.

Many styles of Shaolin have ground positions; tiger , crane , monkey, snake, eagle claw, etc. Chin na shuai jiao?

Yes, if you can't do all of these basics then you have no business learning anything else.

[tattooedmonk]

My advice for whatever it's worth. That curriculum seems a bit much for a new student. You are asking them to learn 80 skills before moving to a higher level. Is this broken down into levels or ranks?

What style of "Shaolin" is this? Northern, Southern or is this Shaolin Do? Either way I have nothing against Shaolin Do. I just think you should be straight forward so other practitioners of the same style can give feedback.It is spread out over 6 months to a year.:D

[YouKnowWho]

Falls /Rolls

4. Forward fall


Is that something like 1.35 - 2.10?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2STm0SZ5YY

IMO, this is the most important one. When your opponent holds on one of your leg and sweep/hook your other leg, your body will go into the ground like an airplane crashing. If you don't know how to fall from this, you may get serious hurt.


Well the only ones I've ever needed are the forward break fall (rolling and jumping versions) where the power travels diagonally across from the arm to the opposite leg, and the back breakfall (rolling and jumping versions). From there I can get thrown forward backward, left, right, or diagonally and be fine.
This is why you will need more than those 2.

http://imageshack.us/a/img838/2355/innerblock.jpg

[YouKnowWho]

Stances

1. Natural
2. Horse
3. Forward Fighting
4. Forward bow
5. Cross
6. Reverse bow
7. Reverse fighting
8. Kneeling
9. Toe
10. Single leg


Why don't you use the Shaolin stances name such as:

1. cat stance (empty stance),
2. Santi (3-7) stance,
3. 4-6 stance,
4. horse stance,
5. 7 star stance,
6. striking tiger stance,
7. monkey stance,
8. golden rooster stance,
9. twisting stance,
10. side empty stance?

Those are the standard names that all Shaolin people can recognize.

You are using exactly the same approach that I had used when I first opened my comercial school. The hand out to the beginners may look very impressive. But I think it may include too much information as others suggested.


Throws/ sweeps/take downs

1. Front sweep-left/-right
2. Back sweep-left/right
3. Arm scissors take down-left/right
4. Arm/Shoulder throw-left/right
5. Hip throw-left/right
6. Double/ single leg take down- all sides
7. Leg scissor sweep- low/ high
8. Inside hook sweep- left/ right
9. Outside hook sweep-left/ right
10. 2 arm throw-left /right
As for the throws, you may separate those throws into 4 sides and 2 doors. If you like to keep it as number 10, you can always teach 2 throws on each side and 1 throw on each door.

definitions:

- 1st side is to attack your opponent outside of his right leg.
- 2nd side is to attack your opponent inside of his right leg.
- 3rd side is to attack your opponent inside of his left leg.
- 4th side is to attack your opponent outside of his left leg.
- front door is to attack infront of him.
- back door is to attack from behind of him.

The best way to teach/learn is always one of my favor subjects.


Punches/ Hands

10. Ridge hand
I think you are a ShoalinDo guy. The TCMA has no ridge hand. It only has value in point sparring. It's used heavily by Soryu Karate guys (or Kempo guys). It has no value in full contact. I have seen so many Karate guys when they started to fight full contact, they broke their hands by using "ridge hand".

I'll challenge anybody to find "ridge hand" in any style of the CMA.

[tattooedmonk]

Why don't you use the Shaolin stances name such as:

1. cat stance (empty stance),
2. Santi (3-7) stance,
3. 4-6 stance,
4. horse stance,
5. 7 star stance,
6. striking tiger stance,
7. monkey stance,
8. golden rooster stance,
9. twisting stance,
10. side empty stance?

Those are the standard names that all Shaolin people can recognize.

You are using exactly the same approach that I had used when I first opened my comercial school. The hand out to the beginners may look very impressive. But I think it may include too much information as others suggested.


As for the throws, you may separate those throws into 4 sides and 2 doors. If you like to keep it as number 10, you can always teach 2 throws on each side and 1 throw on each door.

definitions:

- 1st side is to attack your opponent outside of his right leg.
- 2nd side is to attack your opponent inside of his right leg.
- 3rd side is to attack your opponent inside of his left leg.
- 4th side is to attack your opponent outside of his left leg.
- front door is to attack infront of him.
- back door is to attack from behind of him.

The best way to teach/learn is always one of my favor subjects.


I think you are a ShoalinDo guy. The TCMA has no ridge hand. It only has value in point sparring. It's used heavily by Soryu Karate guys (or Kempo guys). It has no value in full contact. I have seen so many Karate guys when they started to fight full contact, they broke their hands by using "ridge hand".

I'll challenge anybody to find "ridge hand" in any style of the CMA.Thank you for your input. I am aware of the Chinese terms. If you read all the posts completely , instead of taking things out of context, there wouldnt be a misunderstanding.


If you look back at the original posting of this list, I state that it was only the english terms and if someone wanted the Chinese terms or wanted to discuss any of these techniques that I would be more than happy to do so.

"Ridge hand" is a generic term and is probably not exactly what I am refering to here....

I accept your challenge.....

Liao Quan Zhang!

[sean_stonehart]

"Ridge hand" is a generic term and is probably not exactly what I am refering to here....

I accept your challenge.....

Liao Quan Zhang!

Where'd you find it?

[tattooedmonk]

Where'd you find it?
Through out all Chinese martial arts, it's not done with the same flavor as karate, but exists just the same.:eek::D:cool:

[RisingCrane]

I'll challenge anybody to find "ridge hand" in any style of the CMA.

I practise a "Shaolin Buddha's Palm" form which I learned in Canton. One of the techniques is called "Use the hand to break Mount Wa". It is a 'ridgehand' that starts low behind the back and travels diagonally upwards.

[tattooedmonk]

Thank you Rising Crane. And what part of the hand/ wrist is the striking / contact surface?

[sean_stonehart]

Through out all Chinese martial arts, it's not done with the same flavor as karate, but exists just the same.:eek::D:cool:

Negative.

You said "ridgehand" & then came back with something in Mandarin. Where'd it come from? What's the English translation for that phrase?

Just because I use So Choi (sweeping punch) & sometimes use So Jeurng (Sweeping Palm), doesn't make it a ridgehand.

[tattooedmonk]

Negative.

You said "ridgehand" & then came back with something in Mandarin. Where'd it come from? What's the English translation for that phrase?

Just because I use So Choi (sweeping punch) & sometimes use So Jeurng (Sweeping Palm), doesn't make it a ridgehand.haha... Actually, this is a term that refers to both open and closed hands , still striking with the ridge of the hand.

It is very common though.

Cutting/ slicing with the fist/ palm.... Liao quan zhang... It could be Liao zhang or quan.

:cool:

[tattooedmonk]

So jeurng!? Would you say that is a "ridge hand" strike!?

[sean_stonehart]

So jeurng!? Would you say that is a "ridge hand" strike!?

Nope. I wouldn't since I'm not hitting with the "ridge of the hand" but the palm. However, the strike is open handed & is executed in a wide arcing & dropping fashion.

Actually, I've never done anything in TCMA that resembles, karate's "ridge hand". I've done plenty of those in the 80's & early 90's so I'm very certain what one is. There are things I've done that can be misconstrued as a "ridge hand" by somebody who wasn't sure what they were seeing. But no "ridge hand" that I've come across.

[sean_stonehart]

haha... Actually, this is a term that refers to both open and closed hands , still striking with the ridge of the hand.

It is very common though.

Cutting/ slicing with the fist/ palm.... Liao quan zhang... It could be Liao zhang or quan.

:cool:

Where did this come from? What style? Names are important...

[tattooedmonk]

Nope. I wouldn't since I'm not hitting with the "ridge of the hand" but the palm. However, the strike is open handed & is executed in a wide arcing & dropping fashion.

Actually, I've never done anything in TCMA that resembles, karate's "ridge hand". I've done plenty of those in the 80's & early 90's so I'm very certain what one is. There are things I've done that can be misconstrued as a "ridge hand" by somebody who wasn't sure what they were seeing. But no "ridge hand" that I've come across.Oh , ok. I thought you were using juerng in the general term, meaning any part of the open hand, not specifically the palm. thanks

[tattooedmonk]

Where did this come from? What style? Names are important......tai chi, xin yi , ba gua, crane, eagle, dragon... it is used as a general term ....this is just the term generally used for a specific angle of a "ridge hand". you can have; in to out, up to down, diagonally, back to front low to high, etc.


I may have a wushu kung fu dictionary for reference.....I will have to check into it.

[tattooedmonk]

its more about the principles, mechanics, striking surface, etc. than the actual terminology. I used it to convey an idea or equate it for others who may or may not know chinese, martial arts, etc.

if we want to get into the discussion about how they differ/ same , various striking surfaces , angles, etc. , thats fine, but its still going to come down to physics/ mechanics structural alignment etc.

:eek::):D:cool:

btw variations xiao , tiao, etc... angles/ directions from which a " ridge hand" is used.

wushu dictionary

[sean_stonehart]

...tai chi, xin yi , ba gua, crane, eagle, dragon... it is used as a general term ....this is just the term generally used for a specific angle of a "ridge hand". you can have; in to out, up to down, diagonally, back to front low to high, etc.


I may have a wushu kung fu dictionary for reference.....I will have to check into it.

Hmmm... Where in Taiji? Can you provide an example of a "ridge hand" in Taiji? I'm not familiar with in the Chen I've done.

From what I'm reading above, it sounds you're simplifying & changing techniques to fit a more "familiar" format for you.

[YouKnowWho]

Here is a clear definition of what a "ridge hand" is.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&qscrl=1&rlz=1T4PPST_enUS398US398&biw=1344&bih=697&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=jff8V9bFyxhtfM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ir.isas.jaxa.jp/~cpp/TKD/sd/onestep-e.html&docid=Vkl6R3WwZpc-KM&imgurl=http://www.ir.isas.jaxa.jp/~cpp/TKD/sd/images_big/os2-3.jpg&w=539&h=414&ei=H4N0UI31AYqyiQKP84C4DQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=507&vpy=134&dur=25&hovh=197&hovw=256&tx=201&ty=105&sig=113604076333596552026&page=1&tbnh=155&tbnw=206&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:80

http://www.ehow.com/video_4458953_ridge-hand-strike-martial-arts.html

[Sima Rong]

The second example is very clear, YouKnowWho, though maybe they don't train with enough intensity :D.
Not really a safe technique to anywhere except the throat or groin I suppose, and only then if the arm was bent slightly at full extension. Figure they would use the inner forearm if it wasn't such a long range strike.

[tattooedmonk]

Here is a clear definition of what a "ridge hand" is.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&qscrl=1&rlz=1T4PPST_enUS398US398&biw=1344&bih=697&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=jff8V9bFyxhtfM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ir.isas.jaxa.jp/~cpp/TKD/sd/onestep-e.html&docid=Vkl6R3WwZpc-KM&imgurl=http://www.ir.isas.jaxa.jp/~cpp/TKD/sd/images_big/os2-3.jpg&w=539&h=414&ei=H4N0UI31AYqyiQKP84C4DQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=507&vpy=134&dur=25&hovh=197&hovw=256&tx=201&ty=105&sig=113604076333596552026&page=1&tbnh=155&tbnw=206&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:80

http://www.ehow.com/video_4458953_ridge-hand-strike-martial-arts.htmlOMFG, really? This is not what I am talking about , similar but different. You are right about this type of ridge hand strike. This is incorrect..

[tattooedmonk]

.... if the arm was bent slightly at full extension. Figure they would use the inner forearm if it wasn't such a long range strike. alright, you are getting pretty warm with this line of thinking.:D

[tattooedmonk]

Hmmm... Where in Taiji? Can you provide an example of a "ridge hand" in Taiji? I'm not familiar with in the Chen I've done.

From what I'm reading above, it sounds you're simplifying & changing techniques to fit a more "familiar" format for you.Parting horses mane, ward off, snake creeps down, etc.

I have studied Japanese and Chinese martial arts equally, as well as others ;)....after all this time I would rather focus on the similarities, mechanical principles and the nuances that make it effective. After 30 years I know the differences.

I have had many students with prior experience in other arts, using general terms when discussing techniques among non Chinese speaking students is easier, more conventional.

And yes I am some what progressive in my thinking when it comes to the evolution of what I practice and teach.

I still value tradition.:D:)

[sean_stonehart]

Parting horses mane, ward off, snake creeps down, etc.

Really?? Hmmm... ok...



I have studied Japanese and Chinese martial arts equally, as well as others ;)....after all this time I would rather focus on the similarities, mechanical principles and the nuances that make it effective. After 30 years I know the differences.

I have had many students with prior experience in other arts, using general terms when discussing techniques among non Chinese speaking students is easier, more conventional.

And yes I am some what progressive in my thinking when it comes to the evolution of what I practice and teach.

I still value tradition.:D:)

Ohtay Span'ee....

[RisingCrane]

Thank you Rising Crane. And what part of the hand/ wrist is the striking / contact surface?

The thumb is folded into the palm, the wrist starts sunk down, then as the arm travels from low to high, the wrist is snapped inward so that the ridge of the hand makes contact.

Application: The arm has covered the opponents bridge/arm from inside to out then 'plucked' downward at a 45 degree angle. The idea is to jerk the opponent's head forward. Then the snapping upward strike meets the bridge of his nose as his head comes forward.

[Sima Rong]

Actually, I've seen this strike, a 'gull wing strike (?)' in Okinawan karate, and I wouldn't really be that surprised if it's in some Southern Chinese art that karate evolved out of. I'm pretty sure that was aimed at the throat or the bridge of the nose.

[tattooedmonk]

The thumb is folded into the palm, the wrist starts sunk down, then as the arm travels from low to high, the wrist is snapped inward so that the ridge of the hand makes contact.

Application: The arm has covered the opponents bridge/arm from inside to out then 'plucked' downward at a 45 degree angle. The idea is to jerk the opponent's head forward. Then the snapping upward strike meets the bridge of his nose as his head comes forward.Thank you once again Rising Crane.:):cool:

[tattooedmonk]

Actually, I've seen this strike, a 'gull wing strike (?)' in Okinawan karate, and I wouldn't really be that surprised if it's in some Southern Chinese art that karate evolved out of. I'm pretty sure that was aimed at the throat or the bridge of the nose.Yes...!:D:eek::):cool:

[RenDaHai]

I'll challenge anybody to find "ridge hand" in any style of the CMA.


Hello,

Sorry YKW,
But there is indeed a ridgehand. In Shaolin we call it ZanZi Shou, or Zan shou.

It uses the side of the knuckles.
It is usually done palme up.

In Shaolin we mostly use it by using the third knuckle side, the furthest (and weakest) knuckle. I know this sounds strange but it is very fast and whippy and used to attack the adams apple, eyes or nose. Similar techniques can be done using the middle or primary knuckle as well, but range and speed are reduced.

Often we shape the weapon to the specific target, so there are many small variations on common fists for use against specific contours or surfaces.

Also, I learned in a XInYi style once, a ridge hand, like an axe blow downward, but with the ridge instead of a chop. It is more difficult to block, but a little dangerous as the force goes against your elbow so you can break your own arm.