Fight like a snake

[sanjuro_ronin]

On Fight science:

Snake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK6Hn0cPcWg

[IronFist]

Cool show.

When I was younger, I thought snake style was the coolest of the five animals.

Praying Mantis was the coolest style but I didn't even know what it was before Virtual Fighter 2.

http://s.uvlist.net/l/y2006/05/19544.jpg

TBH though I don't think it makes any sense for humans to study animal fighting techniques. Humans are humans. Study human fighting techniques. Snake fighting is instinctive for a snake. Preying mantis fighting is instinctive for a preying mantis.

Boxing/kickboxing is instinctive fighting for a human. That's why untrained fighters "look like kickboxers" and why the best fighters in the world also look like kickboxers.

Animal styles are cool looking, though, and some of the forms can be a good workout.

Snake Deadly Act was one of my favorite kung fu movies. I own it on VHS. It cracks me up how the English subtitles are different from the English being spoken in the movie. The training scene beginning at 0:55:00 is pretty cool, too. That leg training device is nuts lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2pVUdT-pOA

[Lucas]

I study Neanderthal style.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Cool show.

When I was younger, I thought snake style was the coolest of the five animals.

Praying Mantis was the coolest style but I didn't even know what it was before Virtual Fighter 2.

http://s.uvlist.net/l/y2006/05/19544.jpg

TBH though I don't think it makes any sense for humans to study animal fighting techniques. Humans are humans. Study human fighting techniques. Snake fighting is instinctive for a snake. Preying mantis fighting is instinctive for a preying mantis.

Boxing/kickboxing is instinctive fighting for a human. That's why untrained fighters "look like kickboxers" and why the best fighters in the world also look like kickboxers.

Animal styles are cool looking, though, and some of the forms can be a good workout.

Snake Deadly Act was one of my favorite kung fu movies. I own it on VHS. It cracks me up how the English subtitles are different from the English being spoken in the movie. The training scene beginning at 0:55:00 is pretty cool, too. That leg training device is nuts lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2pVUdT-pOA

Kung fu movies always had the best training sequences !
The "animal based" systems weren't suppose to imitate the animal but to take the qualities of that animal that would carry over into the "fighting style".
IN the case of the snake - speed, relaxed spring power, pin-point accuracy.
The "snake fist" would be used after the hands were conditioned enough to be used and, typiclaly, used only on specialized techniques, namely the "finishers".
Think taking a guy out with , using a common point of reference, with a left hook to the liver and and over hand right and then finishing him with a "snake fist" to the throat/neck.

[Lucas]

I forget where but i read somewhere that old school snake practitioners would test their hands on big slabs of meat like a pig carcass or what not.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I forget where but i read somewhere that old school snake practitioners would test their hands on big slabs of meat like a pig carcass or what not.

Never met one, snake stylist that is, BUT have met a few Japanese and Okinanwan guys that had spear hands that would really F you up.
Uechi-ryu guys like Kinjo sensei are an example.
The movies give the idea that a guy is "punching" with his spearhand/snake fist, but in reality ( from what I have seen in practical terms), like any specialty fist, it is used at the "right time on the right place".

[Lucas]

seems like a quick way to be able to 'finish' someone when you dont have a weapon and you have already incapacitated them. roadhouse style.

[sanjuro_ronin]

seems like a quick way to be able to 'finish' someone when you dont have a weapon and you have already incapacitated them. roadhouse style.

Did you see my tiger claw clip on the other thread?

[Lucas]

Nope. What thread?

[Orion Paximus]

Training animal styles has a purpose. It's a mnemonic device to help your brain pull out the right techniques for a given situation. "Okay four dudes and no way out, I need to be defensive and choose my strikes carefully like the crane" or "Four dudes and the door is behind them, do as much quick damage as I can and shock them with my anger to get to the door, like the tiger" etc etc....

[sanjuro_ronin]

Nope. What thread?

SOuthern forum dude.

[GeneChing]

Remember My Life on FIGHT SCIENCE 2010 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=880) by Dr. Craig Reid?

I might merge this thread, as well as the Tiger claw throat tear thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1190290)with the Fight Science thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42741), once the discussion here dies down, just to keep things tidy.

[Lucas]

Oh nice. Honestly I never doubted people that train and condition for it could rip out a throat. All i have to do is feel my own throat and know how vulnerable that part of the body is. You can also tear a guys balls off. :D

[GeneChing]

All i have to do is feel my own throat and know how vulnerable that part of the body is. You can also tear a guys balls off. :D
Do you feel your own balls and know how vulnerable that part of the body is too?

[Lucas]

Do you feel your own balls and know how vulnerable that part of the body is too?

Who hasn't? Got to be thorough.

[GeneChing]

...as long as you're not going to Thailand (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1190292#post1190292) to do so, because that would be idiotic. :p

[David Jamieson]

Snake fist (Se kuen/she kuen etc) also has a strong component of coiling, wrapping and crushing.

I think that aspect gets overlooked in favour of eye strikes or something. lol

[Lucas]

Snake fist (Se kuen/she kuen etc) also has a strong component of coiling, wrapping and crushing.

I think that aspect gets overlooked in favour of eye strikes or something. lol

I think a lot of it has to do with controversy of people claiming finger strikes are un usable due to not being able to do them themselves, from lack of conditioning and logical understanding. Then it becomes a focus of attention.

[David Jamieson]

I think a lot of it has to do with controversy of people claiming finger strikes are un usable due to not being able to do them themselves, from lack of conditioning and logical understanding. Then it becomes a focus of attention.

That's mostly claims coming from students of Wing Chun who just finished learning Biu Ji.

If a person want's to have that skill, there is a lot of compression that is going to have to happen and a crap load of device work with the handform.

In my opinion, in this day and age, it is not a highly useful gong to focus on.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Snake fist (Se kuen/she kuen etc) also has a strong component of coiling, wrapping and crushing.

I think that aspect gets overlooked in favour of eye strikes or something. lol

Well, thrusting fingers is far more cool than "wrappy arm moves" :D

[David Jamieson]

Well, thrusting fingers is far more cool than "wrappy arm moves" :D

Both at the same time and she'll explode like a firecracker. Guaranteed.

wait...you were fishing for that joke right?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Both at the same time and she'll explode like a firecracker. Guaranteed.

wait...you were fishing for that joke right?

I'm become predictable in my old age !
:mad:

[TenTigers]

Never met one, snake stylist that is, .
yeah you have. If you've met any of Lam Sang's SPM guys who trained with the old man, Mark Foon, Chun Ho Dun, and a select few others who stay well under the radar.
Lam's SPM is very snake-like. In its movements (coiling, spiraling, quick, evasive, cruel) and in its mindset(cold-blooded, aggressive, yet calm and focused).
Chung Yel Jung was called the Poison Snake. The weapons are referred to as Poison Snake staff, spear. The knives are called snakes as well as the hands.
Mark my words, the truth will come out.
We're snakes.

[sanjuro_ronin]

yeah you have. If you've met any of Lam Sang's SPM guys who trained with the old man, Mark Foon, Chun Ho Dun, and a select few others who stay well under the radar.
Lam's SPM is very snake-like. In its movements (coiling, spiraling, quick, evasive, cruel) and in its mindset(cold-blooded, aggressive, yet calm and focused).
Chung Yel Jung was called the Poison Snake. The weapons are referred to as Poison Snake staff, spear. The knives are called snakes as well as the hands.
Mark my words, the truth will come out.
We're snakes.

Perhaps, though I see more in the dragon's style then in the typicla snake.
BUT I have never seen southern snake so....unless, again, you are on the button and SPM is just a "new name" for "southern snake fist".

[Kellen Bassette]

I've read that snake as it's own traditional system has died out and what remains is incorporated in various forms and styles. Does anyone have any evidence to the contrary? Obviously Hung Gar and other 5 animal based systems use the the techniques; and there's tons of modern snake forms...hard to find real traditional ones though; and they seem to mostly be from other southern, animal based systems.

So does anyone know of any "pure" pre-Communist Era Snake Systems?

[Bacon]

That's mostly claims coming from students of Wing Chun who just finished learning Biu Ji.

If a person want's to have that skill, there is a lot of compression that is going to have to happen and a crap load of device work with the handform.

In my opinion, in this day and age, it is not a highly useful gong to focus on.

Actually the issue is more with accurately hitting a small target under pressure while you opponent is trying to stomp your guts out. It's hard enough just to hit them let alone spear an eye with your fingers and avoid breaking them on the various hard bits of skull surrounding. While it is possible it is neither a high percentage move compared to others nor is it generally a legally justifiable level of force.

While I do practice wing chun and I know this hand form come from snake, if you have to hit to the eyes I'm far more in favour of using a palm strike to the face and then gouging with the fingers. Much easier to actually pull off. Best of all would be controlling position on the ground and the gouging if the situation allows.

[IronFist]

Kung fu movies always had the best training sequences !

Heck yeah!

I have a movie called "Dragon's Claws" (I think that's the name) and in the movie, one of the guys trains with these golden bowling ball things that have finger holes cut in them and he puts his hands in them and does forms/upper body techniques/etc and I remember watching that and thinking "that's so awesome!" A few times I almost considered getting two bowling balls with 5 finger holes cut in them so I could train that way myself.

Good thing I didn't, though. It wouldn't have done much. But it would've been cool :cool:


The "animal based" systems weren't suppose to imitate the animal but to take the qualities of that animal that would carry over into the "fighting style".
IN the case of the snake - speed, relaxed spring power, pin-point accuracy.

Yeah, I guess. But really you can apply that to every style. What style doesn't use speed? What style doesn't encourage you to be relaxed? Etc. And pin-point accuracy goes out the window when you have an adrenaline dump.


The "snake fist" would be used after the hands were conditioned enough to be used and, typiclaly, used only on specialized techniques, namely the "finishers".
Think taking a guy out with , using a common point of reference, with a left hook to the liver and and over hand right and then finishing him with a "snake fist" to the throat/neck.

Fair enough.

[Syn7]

I study Neanderthal style.

They have the best blunt weapons! The hair pulling is part of their BB curriculum.

[RickMatz]

snake fail

[PalmStriker]

I've read that snake as it's own traditional system has died out and what remains is incorporated in various forms and styles. Does anyone have any evidence to the contrary? Obviously Hung Gar and other 5 animal based systems use the the techniques; and there's tons of modern snake forms...hard to find real traditional ones though; and they seem to mostly be from other southern, animal based systems.

So does anyone know of any "pure" pre-Communist Era Snake Systems? :)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_H_8l830yA&feature=related

[LoneTiger108]

:)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_H_8l830yA&feature=related

:D I'm wondering where Hendrik is in this conversaion of snakes???!

Yiu Choi wasn't the only Wing Chun Sifu to promote this side to our system but I do find many that simply detatch from all this animal magic because maybe it has never really been taught well.

The snake has a mysterious secerecy surrounding it too and some say these old ways are hidden with the women sages of Taoism, so I guess we are all kept in the dark these days :cool:

[GeneChing]

The snake practitioner for this episode was Li Jing. She's a former Beijing WUSHU team member, appeared in M. Night Shyamalan's The Last Airbender (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46683) and Legendary Amazons (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56646), and is very fast, as wushu champs are fast.

Here's a pic of her and me at the 2011 Nationals.
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/269106_10150299813909363_8053245_n.jpg

[Lucas]

Gene, you really need to land a villain role in a kungfu movie.

[LoneTiger108]

The snake practitioner for this episode was Li Jing. She's a former Beijing WUSHU team member, appeared in M. Night Shyamalan's The Last Airbender (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46683) and Legendary Amazons (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56646), and is very fast, as wushu champs are fast.

This Li Jing??
http://youtu.be/9xjNrJxgu-Q

Pretty cool wushu but they do churn out the talent in Beijing :)

http://youtu.be/imM08ah58ik

[GeneChing]

Funny you should mention this as someone just came into our office and saw some of our drafts of our next cover which will feature her partner. She said she thought it looked evil, to which I said 'That's good. It's the wulin. Half of us look evil and the other half look good. Just look at all of our past covers.' It was an off-the-cuff comment and seemed to satisfy her.

Sometimes it bums me out that I have a villainous look. I've seen so many Kung Fu movies and I don't want to spit blood and die at the end. :(


This Li Jing??
http://youtu.be/9xjNrJxgu-Q
Yeah, that's her. I think the clips of her in that demo reel of her with dao (http://www.martialartsmart.com/weapons-chinese-weapons-broadswords.html) that are shot against the white studio background just might have been in our studio. I don't remember that shoot offhand, but it sure looks like our space and lighting.

[Lucas]

You need to be a pioneer villain Gene. We'll write a movie where the villain wins in the end. Not enough of those in my opinion. The whole hero always wins in the end thing is old and over done. You just have to be a villain that people can like.

We can call it 'Revenge of the Ninjettes'

[GeneChing]

Lucas, old friend, I am now dropping today's ace card on ya.

Meet my ninja cats.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/429986_3724765559561_1356595158_n.jpg

[sanjuro_ronin]

I just have one question about those ladies:
Does the carpet match the curtains?
:D

[GeneChing]

This is what I do when I'm not being a Kung Fu villain. :cool:

Beyond Bay Area Announce Trailer 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX_w8jiZGCA) @13 sec

Oakland rave riles East Bay neighbors (http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Oakland-rave-riles-East-Bay-neighbors-3910497.php)

[LoneTiger108]

Meet my ninja cats

Now I bet they're all Taoists

[Lucas]

****, you dropped the bomb on me. 'Revenge of the Shaolin Ninja Cats'

You can be an ex monk who was kicked out of the temple for being to fierce and violent. Along your travels you develop a method of fighting from watching stray feral cats fight in alley ways and behind restaurants, battling over left over fish heads and guts. After combining your new found style with your legendary shaolin skills, you travel across the country side taking and pillaging as you please. Along the way you attract a small following of fiercly loyal women, to whom you impart your feral cat style to. After years of traveling and fighting your way across china, you find yourself back in the vicinity of the shaolin temple, and your rage quickly boils to the surface, and you plan out your revenge against the abbot. You lead your destructive ninja cats against the shaolin temple and decimate the warrior monks and result in a little known destruction of the shaolin temple. The only records left of this mysterious destruction of the temple are found within the record halls of shaolin do.

[Raipizo]

He needs a fumanchu beard and crazily long eyebrows first.

[ginosifu]

The "animal based" systems weren't suppose to imitate the animal but to take the qualities of that animal that would carry over into the "fighting style".
IN the case of the snake - speed, relaxed spring power, pin-point accuracy.



Yeah, I guess. But really you can apply that to every style. What style doesn't use speed? What style doesn't encourage you to be relaxed? Etc. And pin-point accuracy goes out the window when you have an adrenaline dump.

Let me say that I agree with you to a point, that all systems use speed, power, skill etc.

The difference between animal styles is what makes each style unique.

Tiger style: Aggressive, attacking with hard blocks and claws. Going straight to the throat with strikes or claws.

Snake style: Patient, waiting for submissions thru coiling and smothering. Similar to MMA ground work.

Monkey style: Sneaky, using feints and elusive footwork, jumping around waiting for you to fall for one of his antics.

The above animal styles are my own interpretations. Even though they all will need speed and power.... thet all have different methods that make them each a different way to fight as though an animal.

ginosifu

[sanjuro_ronin]

As I have point out on a few threads, there is something to be said about an "a typical" fighting style, something that brings something different to the table, much like BJJ did in the early days of vale tudo and the UFC.
That said, you still have to make it work.