Sanjuro

[JamesC]

Just wondering if you ever figured out your martial arts situation. I believe you were in the same boat as me with your teacher leaving town. Did you take up a new one or are you just practicing on your own now?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Just wondering if you ever figured out your martial arts situation. I believe you were in the same boat as me with your teacher leaving town. Did you take up a new one or are you just practicing on your own now?

My Hung Kuen teacher went back to Macao and his brother (SPM) followed suit a bit after that.
They both told me that, in short, there wasn't much more they could teach me BUT there was still more I needed to learn.
In short, I am doing what is left of any MA when they have put over 30 years into MA:
Training for the pure enjoyment of it AND "unlocking" the "secrets" of the MA in the ONLY way they can be unlocked: Hard work in training and hard contact in sparring
:D

The issue is that, because I suffer from Meniere's disease I can't do hard contact sparring much, if at all, which makes things a bit tricky of course.
Luckily the decades of hard sparring and full contact competitions have given me a good idea of what works and what doesn't and how "real fighting" VS trained fighters tends to go.
Years of bouncing and security work and my time in the military has given me the experience I need to understand fighting "outside the ring".

Yet, I miss my good hard sparring sessions but such is life.

So, I am meeting up once a month with the my fellow students for some "fine tuning" and some sparring, I am training 4-5 times a week either on my own or going to the local Judo club for some rolling.
The unfortunate part is that, I do tend to get bouts of vertigo after Judo too ( getting thrown and all that) so I had to cut down on it and will, probably, have to stop that too if they get worse.

Sucks... but when life gives you lemons, you kick life in the nads and rub those lemons in its eyes !!

[bawang]

Sucks... but when life gives you lemons, you kick life in the nads and rub those lemons in its eyes !!

when life give u lemons, eat them.

how is teaching your own style working out?

[TenTigers]

When life gives you lemons, grab some tequilla!:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

when life give u lemons, eat them.

how is teaching your own style working out?

Not teaching it yet, still working on it, LOL !
Typically, anyone I start of teaching they basically learn "mma" and for most, that is more than enough.
Most guys don't even wanna bother with the "exotic" stuff.
Sure they get impressed with things like "fa jing" and "force multipliers" and such, but the time to put into them, not so much.
The vast majority are content with "mma" and Strength training.
Of the few guys I meet up with from my old hung kuen and SPM teachers, we tend to focus on partner training and sparring and seeing what the others have been working on since the last time we got together.
Since they all have prior MA training too and we have been training together for the last few years, there isn't much to pass on to them that hasn't been passed on.
Of course there is always something I hold back :D

One of the first lessons I learned my my various teachers is that, you never hold back what must be taught BUT you never give out what is learned.

[taai gihk yahn]

The issue is that, because I suffer from Meniere's disease
I do tend to get bouts of vertigo

there are some very skiled people in ur area who might b able to help that (in fact, ur former bouncer buddy from Zanzibar is now an osteopath, u shd look him up...)

[Hebrew Hammer]

When life gives you lemons, grab some tequilla!:D

When your wife gives you melons, you fondle them.

[sanjuro_ronin]

there are some very skiled people in ur area who might b able to help that (in fact, ur former bouncer buddy from Zanzibar is now an osteopath, u shd look him up...)

Been to a couple already, tried some natural remedies and such.
Supposedly the years of getting hit in the head hasn't helped my case.
Go figure !

[Subitai]

..snip...
Since they all have prior MA training too and we have been training together for the last few years, there isn't much to pass on to them that hasn't been passed on.
Of course there is always something I hold back :D

One of the first lessons I learned my my various teachers is that, you never hold back what must be taught BUT you never give out what is learned.

Very interesting Sanjuro,

I've been pondering that last sentence for a few minutes now.

The modern crowd will argue "No, you must reveal everything in order to make it known and therefore constantly raise the bar".

Others may argue if you hold back what is learned, you weaken the arts. They say that's the reason for so much Chop Suey Kung Fu that can't fight. I.E, people teaching after only taking some seminars or only learn a couple of years. B.S. if a dude was dedicated enough and also had self respect, he'd wait till he had a decent level of skill prior to teaching.

But on the flip side, in the old days prior to video and being able to record / view and research... you could easily use the same methodology to beat all your opponents.

Now you have the "I just want to learn off Youtube crowd" and skip the hard work. Yeah, just put on youtube all your hard work so I can eat popcorn and judge you.

Still I can't get that quote of yours out of my mind... It can be thought of simply or it can get real complicated if you let it. :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Very interesting Sanjuro,

I've been pondering that last sentence for a few minutes now.

The modern crowd will argue "No, you must reveal everything in order to make it known and therefore constantly raise the bar".

Others may argue if you hold back what is learned, you weaken the arts. They say that's the reason for so much Chop Suey Kung Fu that can't fight. I.E, people teaching after only taking some seminars or only learn a couple of years. B.S. if a dude was dedicated enough and also had self respect, he'd wait till he had a decent level of skill prior to teaching.

But on the flip side, in the old days prior to video and being able to record / view and research... you could easily use the same methodology to beat all your opponents.

Now you have the "I just want to learn off Youtube crowd" and skip the hard work. Yeah, just put on youtube all your hard work so I can eat popcorn and judge you.

Still I can't get that quote of yours out of my mind... It can be thought of simply or it can get real complicated if you let it. :D


Fact is dude, the "secrets" of any MA can't be taught, they must be learned.
We teach the basics, we point the finger and we help them find the path BUT walking it and learning it, is up to them.
I hold back what, in reality, can't be taught and can only be learned.
It's not like I am holding back some uber secret killing move ( which I am of course :D).
Fact is that, we one never knows when student, friend or even family may become an enemy, an opponent.
Still, nothing I hold back CAN'T be learned by someone that I have already shown the path to.

IN short, and the number one secret in EVERY MA:
All things become clear in a fight.

[Subitai]

AHA!, "Uber secret move eh"???


It's just like I keep asking Gene to teach the secret fencing stroke that has "NO Counter".

But for some reason he'll get all real world on ya and say that no such technique exists. That's the mantra for most of the fencing world.

Seriously, I think Gene went all Rocky and Stabbed a few hundred Cows at meat factory once and gained enlightenment.

Oh yeah, he's holding back. ;)

[TenTigers]

Gene trained with cows. but the Uber secret timing came from this cow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyAniSKkAiE

[sanjuro_ronin]

AHA!, "Uber secret move eh"???


It's just like I keep asking Gene to teach the secret fencing stroke that has "NO Counter".

But for some reason he'll get all real world on ya and say that no such technique exists. That's the mantra for most of the fencing world.

Seriously, I think Gene went all Rocky and Stabbed a few hundred Cows at meat factory once and gained enlightenment.

Oh yeah, he's holding back. ;)

Well, every single MA has a move that they "guard" and I don't think that will ever change.
Granted they tend to be base of basics but what makes then "unique" is that they have been found to work VIA the only true place where ANYTHING can be found to work - the "battle ground".
You don't give up that kind of stuff easily.

[GeneChing]

I don't really see it as holding back per se. It's more like giving out what a student is really capable of absorbing. If you give out more than they can hold, it's like that ol' 'teach a pig to sing' situation. I learned that the hard way, wasted a lot of time and annoyed a lot of pigs. In fact, I'm grappling with it now with one of my classmates. He's young, just entering his teens and already taller than me - great reach, good physical strength and speed, but a little too ADD for Shaolin Kung Fu. Honestly, he'd be much better suited for TKD. My coach now is old skool in that he doesn't teach you anything until he sees your putting out on the floor. So that kid doesn't get many lessons as he's seldom checked in, and even when he is paying attention, he doesn't absorb it. I watched his last lesson - it was only one simple concept to engage the hips in a strike - but he totally missed it. So my coach doesn't waste his time.

As for the 'universal parry', it was marketing, something fencing masters would sell to fops who had got themselves stuck in a duel back in the day. You can find them in old fencing texts. They are usually a simple effective combination, like a take in high prime to a circular carte. But like any pre-programed combo, it can be penetrated. I wouldn't bother teaching it to you, shidi Subatai. Are you still even practicing sword? (I mean real swords, a full yard of steel, not those sawed-off meat cleavers (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-69l.html). :p)

I categorically deny any involvement with cows (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1188333#post1188333).

[JamesC]

This fish oil would make sense because I usually take them but recently ran out and just started taking them again. I take them for my joints because of the weightlifting I do. Wasn't aware they are an NSAID too.

I'll give your other suggestions a try. Thanks dale.

Sanjuro, I KNEW you were going to chime in lol

[JamesC]

Oops. Wrong thread lol

[MasterKiller]

http://i.minus.com/iHs0Orx7TXMfi.gif

[Subitai]

...SNIP...

As for the 'universal parry', it was marketing, something fencing masters would sell to fops who had got themselves stuck in a duel back in the day. You can find them in old fencing texts. They are usually a simple effective combination, like a take in high prime to a circular carte. But like any pre-programed combo, it can be penetrated. I wouldn't bother teaching it to you, shidi Subitai. Are you still even practicing sword? (I mean real swords, a full yard of steel, not those sawed-off meat cleavers (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-69l.html). :p)

I categorically deny any involvement with cows (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1188333#post1188333).

Actually YES big bro, I've found a love for European ie German 2 handed Long Sword or (Langschwert). I started researching the 14th century fencing master "Johannes Liechtenauer" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Liechtenauer

No full on amor though..PIPE Dream, but going over as many parries and strikes in light dry sword sparring as I can. Just getting comfortable with it. Interesting as the Germans use the High guard and now i'm looking at Italian 2 handers from the same medeviel period...they utilize a low guard at times.

It's fun because, there's also grappling with 2 handed swords. I got started with this because i'm a big fan of Mike Loades from UK. http://www.mikeloades.co.uk/cms/index.php


2 handers are awesome!

Hehe,

[GeneChing]

Suddenly I have the mental image of you wearing a bicycle helmet bashing people with a pool noodle. I know that's not what it really looks like, but the thought of it does make me smile. :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

A couple of reads for you Sub:

Medieval Swordsmanship: Illustrated Methods And Techniques by John Clements (Oct 1, 1998)

Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship: Sigmund Ringeck's Commentaries on Liechtenauer by Christian Henry Tobler (Mar 15, 2002)

The Secret History of the Sword: Adventures in Ancient Martial Arts by J. Christoph Amberger (Mar 1999)

[Subitai]

Cool Thanks Sanjuro... Have you been into this for awhile?

Right now i've been using
"Fighting man's Guide to German Longsword Combat" by Michael G Thomas

and Fi'ore Dei Liberi's "Sword in Two Hands"

Good reads... I'll definately chk out the books you listed.

Hey Big Bro Gene,
Metal Swords only or at the most I plan on using Japanese Shinai..so actually for now we've just been using the Longest Straight swords we can find and doing medium to fast parries and blocks with some control.
Similar speeds to what you'd see in a basic Foil class, only No direct stabbs to complete contact and penetration though.

There are allot of good 2 handers been sold on the market now...so I wanna upgrade. But as you've alluded to, so then would our protective gear have to upgrade.

I also have some students who've done SAS and made their own armor and have have another that make true Chain mail versions 50 - 80lbs each. Very strong, very labor intensive.

Fencing Masks and Hocky gloves only go so far...still allot of room for improvment.

:cool:

[GeneChing]

...is like comparing kwan do (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-88.html) to butterfly sword (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-69l.html).

Ok, not really. I just wanted to get some plugs in. :p

Have you looked into the nylon wasters? They are surprisingly resilient and far superior for European two-hander practice. These are available from my friend's company, Victory Fencing. If you contact him, drop my name and maybe he'll cut you a deal. Then again, maybe he'll tell you to go to hell. Yea, he's an old salle brother, and just like kung fu brothers, well, you know how it is... But I've seen these wasters and they're pretty cool.


Sparring Long Sword, Pair (Nylon Waster) (http://www.victoryfencinggear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=243)
$99.95
Special price for a pair of our sturdy plastic practice long swords:

Finally, a much safer way to practice your swordsmanship, be it full-speed sparring, lessons, or choreography: High-Impact plastic wasters! These 1.5 hand length German-style longswords are full length and width with extra thick edges and a blunt point -- they are even somewhat flexible for some point-work. These weapons are lighter than regular 1.5 hand long swords and pretty durable. Wear the proper gear (fencing mask, padded gloves, thick jacket) and do not use without proper instruction/supervision. Really. I mean it.

Specifications: Blade length: 36", overall length: 47", Width of blade at guard: 1.75", width of guard: 9.5"

[Subitai]

...is like comparing kwan do (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-88.html) to butterfly sword (http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-69l.html).

Ok, not really. I just wanted to get some plugs in. :p

Have you looked into the nylon wasters? They are surprisingly resilient and far superior for European two-hander practice. These are available from my friend's company, Victory Fencing. If you contact him, drop my name and maybe he'll cut you a deal. Then again, maybe he'll tell you to go to hell. Yea, he's an old salle brother, and just like kung fu brothers, well, you know how it is... But I've seen these wasters and they're pretty cool.

WOW!! Those are DOPE!!!

I'm so getting those..haha, now what's this about the special Ganja discount?

Just kidding... Question, I have no intension of chopping wood with them but do you think they're durable enough to stand up to a couple of good whacks?

You know how people can get carried away. haha.

[JamesC]

Hey O,
European swordsmanship is something I think I could get into. Strictly as a hobby. I have a buddy thr makes chain mail and would be down to practice with me.

Any suggestions for starting out? Books or DVDs to get first? Equipment? My sword experience is really limited to one-handers ala Filipino Kali. But, as I said it would be a fun past time. Who doesn't love Conan?

[GeneChing]

Question, I have no intension of chopping wood with them but do you think they're durable enough to stand up to a couple of good whacks? My friend that owns Victory was someone that I used to make swords with back at the Armoury. His name is Cole (http://www.victoryfencinggear.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=5), but he responds to Yeti, and for good reason. He endorses them and he knows how to use and abuse a weapon. I trust his recommendations. When you get the scratch, give him a holla, and do drop my name as we are very good longtime friends.


Hey O,
European swordsmanship is something I think I could get into. Strictly as a hobby. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight, a hobby...as opposed to those of us who are two-handed sword professionals. Not much call for that kind of work nowadays. :p

[JamesC]

Lmao you know what I meant!

That same friend of mine that makes chain mail is a VERY serious civil war reenactor

[sanjuro_ronin]

Cool Thanks Sanjuro... Have you been into this for awhile?



My uncle was a "master-of-arms" in the portuguese (spanish) school of fencing.
Long sword, long staff, rapier and dagger, he taught me them all.
Add to that the Yagyu school of Shinkage-ryu kenjutsu.

Funny thing is that I have no formal training in TC sword arts.

[JamesC]

Sanjuro, do you have any suggestions for someone wanting to start out?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Sanjuro, do you have any suggestions for someone wanting to start out?

Find one of those ARMA ( the reenactment guys) or join a local fencing club.
BUT, if you just wanna "swing for fun" LOL !, you can get yourself a couple of DVD's and a few books and read up of course.
Getting a "practical sword" and doing some test cutting is a must if you wanna feel what it is like to actually cut with a sword.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I almost forgot !

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/omarmipi/Licous/46e07e1e48c28.jpg

[Old Noob]

I don't think this qualifies as direct competition. If I'm wrong, a mod can go ahead and delete this. There's a good forum and guide for sword people called sword buyers guide. It's here http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/. There are a lot of folks who are as into western sword stuff over there as there are KF guys here.

[Old Noob]

Oh but be careful; their forum isn't as "spirited" as this one.

[bawang]

My uncle was a "master-of-arms" in the portuguese (spanish) school of fencing.
Long sword, long staff, rapier and dagger, he taught me them all.
Add to that the Yagyu school of Shinkage-ryu kenjutsu.

Funny thing is that I have no formal training in TC sword arts.

most chinese sword styles are extracted from japanese, 2 handed from kage and 1 handed from shin kage, so youre not very far off anyways.

[GeneChing]

Oh but be careful; their forum isn't as "spirited" as this one. Well, what's the point, then? ;)