crescent kicks

[TenTigers]

that roundhouse kick thread got me thinkin...
So, what do you see as good application of the crescent kicks, both inward and outward?
Outward Crescent
For me, I can hit to the head from close range (a la Billy Jack)
Possibly a desperation kick to a bottle holding hand-the kick crosses the body, thus protecting the stomach, groin, and femoral artery. (maybe a bit Fantasy Island..but good to have in your bag of tricks)
Not really crazy about this kick as my friend had his knee tore sideways, by having the kick jammed. The foot kept going, the knee stopped.
I figure a hook kick to be a safer alternative.
Arm breaks with the kick while holding the arm.
Inside Crescent
Arm break as well
not really much else-too many of the applications I was taught in TKD, TSD, Northern, etc were "in a perfect world..."

[Bacon]

I've never really found that much use for it. Roundhouse covers the same territory with more power and less risk of damage. Even when I did TKD and Muay Thai no one ever hit me with them. They're usually way too easy to see coming. Really I think the best use is hitting a downed opponent a la Anderson Silva.

[JamesC]

Only time I've ever gotten it to work was when I had my sparring partner concentrating on my hands and just snuck it in there.

I would think some of those kyokushin guys with the gumby knees could do it well

[Shaolin]

Arm breaks with the kick while holding the arm.
Inside Crescent
Arm break as well

Years go my kenpo karate instructor used to teach this and at the time I believed him. But now that I have more education I don't think it's likely. I'll believe it when I see it. Holding someones arm would put you at a closer range, your kick would be jammed.

[JamesC]

Also, inward crescents make even less sense

[-N-]

Some punk came at me with a linoleum knife.

I crescent kicked it out of his hand.

[Jimbo]

I used to use the outside crescent in sparring and competition. I never hurt my knee doing it, maybe because I did not use it with the knee straight throughout. I began the kick with the knee bent, and turned *very* slightly outward, then whipped the lower leg out. So instead of the outside edge of foot, I hit the face or head more with the outer instep. This 'whipping' outside crescent also has better velocity (and thus sharper power) and is easier to fire off from different positions with less telegraphing. Depending on the position of the impact, I would either drive through, or bring the leg back the way it came.

I do believe the hook kick is a bit safer knee-wise, but the outside crescent, IME, can be very deceptive if set up and used right. Not many people actually use it in sparring, though, and it shouldn't be used very often, nor from far away. It's positioning is totally different from the hook kick, so I never considered them an either/or issue. It worked best in combo with hands.

I've never used the inside crescent effectively, though, except as occasional standing foot sweeps.

[YouKnowWho]

I've never really found that much use for it.

You may only look at crescent kicks from the offense point of view. Both kicks have value in defense application.

The waist level outside crescent kick can be used to escape inner hook (Ouchi Gari) that your opponent uses his leg to hook your leading leg from inside. In the following clip, all you need is to use your left outside crescent kick to move your left leg out of your opponent's right leg attack.

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/ouchigari.htm

The waist level inside crescent followed by side kick can be used to deflect a incoming front kick. You then kick back on his standing leg. This way you don't have to use your arm to block his kick and leave your head open.

[Bacon]

You may have only look at crescent kicks from the offense point of view. Both kicks have great value in defense application.

The waist level outside crescent kick can be used to escape front cut, inner hook, sickle hook, ... that your opponent uses his leg to hook your leading leg.

The waist level inside crescent followed by side kick can be used to deflect a incoming front kick. You then kick back on his stamding leg.

Meh. I'll stick to low line wing chun kicks and Thai kicks. That covers me for long and short ranges.

[RenDaHai]

Hey Tigers

I love the crescent kicks.

I am speaking from the SongShan Shaolin point of view;

Inside: Kick upwards at the kidneys with the BALL of the foot. Ok, this requires flexibility but its a great kick. When we strike the torso we like to kick upwards (there is no way for the body to dampen upwards force so the impact is greater). Leg straight, kick up to the soft area below the floating rib, aim with the toes, 45 degrees, accross and up. You won't hit with the toes (if you are wearing shoes) you will end up striking with the ball of the foot which makes a very heavy impact. Try it now with a bag or a wall or a Bob.

What is important is that it is combined with the hands. With correct position the Crescent kick is much shorter range than the roundhouse. This is to its advantage as the hands can reach the same target.

Example;
Right inside crescent; grab his left arm from outside with your right hand. push down wards on it. Strike left hand accross in large obvious sweeping motion. Simultaneously kick at his kidneys. With correct action the your body is uneffected by kicking and you can do so 'invisibly' without telegrahing it. Follow by uppercutting with the right hand. (XiaoHOngQUan).

The crescent kick morphs itself to the target, so if you do the same as above but kick to the side of his knee, you can use the whole sole of the foot instead.


The outside crescent is also great. If an opponent is standing side on you can not kick them straight in the nuts, kick from the outside crescent.

[jimbob]

I can honestly say I've pulled off a crescent kick once since 1978 when I first started. Jump spinning inside crescent kick that I landed on (of all people) a taekwondo teacher. I think it took both of us completely by surprise - I know it sure as hell wasn't going through my head when I hit it.

It didn't knock him out or down, but it dazed him enough that I could put him away with my hands.

That would have been 91 or 92 - never done anything remotely like it since.

I was always taught the inside crescent kick to the hand slap was to simulate having someone by the hair and the 'slapped' hand was their face. It never made a huge amount of sense to me, even as a kid. I used to think, if I had someone by the hair, there are other things that'd come to mind before i decided to put my foot in his face.

[RenDaHai]

I was always taught the inside crescent kick to the hand slap was to simulate having someone by the hair and the 'slapped' hand was their face. It never made a huge amount of sense to me, even as a kid. I used to think, if I had someone by the hair, there are other things that'd come to mind before i decided to put my foot in his face.

We also slap the foot, but it is to make sure your hand stretches out as far as the foot. In application we hit to the ear with a cupped slap, to distract from the kick. But the kick rarely goes above the hips. Sometimes into kidney level as I stated above.

A strike straight into the core of the hips is also a good one. Again, ball of the foot, upwards.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Crescent kicks are the "WTF was that?" kicks.
They are designed and work when they "come out of nowhere".
They are not "distance kicks" nor are they finishers, but they can be quite sneaky.

[Old Noob]

I've contacted with outside crescents exactly twice ever but I don't use them frequently. I agree with the earlier post that they can be effective close range when nobody is looking.

I've only successfully used the inside as a set up for something else rather than a kick unto itself. Two examples I can think of are back-leg inside crescents to set up a spinning back or hook kick (which are both risky themselves) or, preferably, a back leg crescent to set up a back sweep.

[taai gihk yahn]

back in my WTF TKD days, I remember competing in one of those Oly-style tourneys that heavily biased towards head kicks; I remember standing right up against some guy w/out fear of being punched, clinched, swept, etc., and repeatedly hammering him w out-to-in crescents on the side of the head; it was awesome; and could only happen in a strange venue like that...

[bawang]

whats the chinese name for crescent kick? i don kno wat u guys talking about

[Subitai]

A thread with no fighting or ranting??? Who are you guys and what did you do with KFM????

Haha Right on, love when it's discussed like that!

You guys pretty much "nailed" everything I was gonna say.
I wouldn't even think about doing it in a venue where the guy could shoot and/or crash me.

But if it was all stand up ...yeah it's tricky if you set it up right, blamo outta nowhere!

For a head shot...When the arms are up, blocking or just generally obscurring the vision during an exchange... time it right and he doesn't see it coming.

I wouldn't from LONG range to close the gap though...it's not really long range to begin with and yet you see people messing around doing it. It's all good fun but a good way to get your leg caught and if you have pants on, all the easier to grab you.

[RisingCrane]

whats the chinese name for crescent kick? i don kno wat u guys talking about

內蓮踢
外蓮踢

Personally, I use them as a dynamic stretch in my warmup, but for fighting I prefer round kicks.

[Judge Pen]

I see them more for clearing and advancing. If you work a crescent kick against a heavy bag, then you will quickly understand its limitations. I liked the comment about it being a WTF reactionary kick as it clears space and can draw an opponents guard toward the kick and open up other areas for other techniques.

I also have had good luck with it as a counter to a front sweep in using the momentum of the sweep to give a boost to an outside crescent kick.

My teacher also taught neck sweeping or reaping techniques, but I never felt like I was strong, fast or flexible enough to make that application realistic so I discounted it in my personal toolbox.

[GeneChing]

In BSL, crescent kicks are used in concert with the hand slap. It works sort of like a double punch to the temples. Usually someone will only block one of the attacks, the kick or the slap, so the other gets through. This is seldom a finishing move, but it can force an opening for a follow-up combo.

There's a Songshan Shaolin application that deploys an inside crescent as a sort of qinna move against the opponent's trapped arm. Basically, you lock the wrist and drop the crescent on the arm to hyperextend the elbow. It's one of those insane Songshan apps that I've seen a monk get to work, but I couldn't quite get there well enough to be comfortable with it. Sure looked cool tho, and the uke went down hard.

[Kellen Bassette]

I think the outside crescent kick is an awesome sparring/fighting technique. A lot of people think it's too weak; and for most it is; but if you develop, you can easily get knock out power by bringing it across the jaw. The version I like requires chambering the knee, as a front kick, (or most other kicks.) Not to be confused with a full circle outside crescent kick, i.e. "stretch kick."

It's real tough to work on a heavy bag, because it causes too much strain on the knee, (for me anyways), but it's awesome to train on the Thai Pads. I also work it on this octagon shaped "Uppercut" bag I use, works much better than a regular heavy bag.

I know a lot of guys who thought it was impractical until they really drilled it on the Thai Pads. You can feel the power once you get it down, providing your quick and limber enough.

I like to use it to the jaw, off my lead leg. If you pick the front knee straight up there's very little telegraph.

As to the inside crescent kick...hard to land because it's so telegraphic. I was taught to use it to knock the guard down, but this is tough to do. Works real nice as a fake. Just lob it out in the air then follow with spinning crescent/back/hook, whatever. If your good enough with your kicks and balance, using the inside crescent as a fake and turning the same leg into a sidekick, (swallowtail kick,) is a pretty gnarly move.

[Kellen Bassette]

I got to comment on the hand slapping too...love that as a training method. Some of the reasons I've been told/discovered...The hand is used as a target. If you can't hit your hand, how are you going to hit some one in the head?

This really works for helping focus, especially with beginners. You'll see people lobbing sloppy kicks into nowhere, but to hit your hand properly forces you to use good form and posture. It really improves the technique and the focus.

One thing that always amazed me, sparring my Sifu, were how hard his hands were. He would block punches and kicks with these little "kick hands" just dropping the blade of the palm on the arm or leg, from a couple inches above and would cause some nasty bruising. Later on I would use the same technique to block and people would make that comment about my hands. I thought about it and realized a lot of it had to do with years of kicking my hands and slapping the ground during form work. It's really a type of Iron Palm conditioning and I believe it really hardens the hands, even if that's not what your focusing on.

I think that's one of the coolest things about Shaolin, all the exercises have so many different purposes...you never really train, just one thing. You train multiple things with one exercise.

[ShaolinDan]

I got to comment on the hand slapping too...love that as a training method. Some of the reasons I've been told/discovered...The hand is used as a target. If you can't hit your hand, how are you going to hit some one in the head?

This really works for helping focus, especially with beginners. You'll see people lobbing sloppy kicks into nowhere, but to hit your hand properly forces you to use good form and posture. It really improves the technique and the focus.

One thing that always amazed me, sparring my Sifu, were how hard his hands were. He would block punches and kicks with these little "kick hands" just dropping the blade of the palm on the arm or leg, from a couple inches above and would cause some nasty bruising. Later on I would use the same technique to block and people would make that comment about my hands. I thought about it and realized a lot of it had to do with years of kicking my hands and slapping the ground during form work. It's really a type of Iron Palm conditioning and I believe it really hardens the hands, even if that's not what your focusing on.

I think that's one of the coolest things about Shaolin, all the exercises have so many different purposes...you never really train, just one thing. You train multiple things with one exercise.

Absolutely! :)

[SPJ]

bai lian

or swing lotus

there are hand moves with any leg move.

inward is nei

outward is wai.

great.

leg moves do not stand alone.

that is.

:)

[David Jamieson]

1 name, 2 words: Mirko Cro Cop

Crescent kick knock outs. He has them.

[SPJ]

people tend to think about strike only

actually

swing lotus leg or bai lian tui

it can be lateral hook to throw or uproot the opponent's lead leg while your hands are pulling or striking at the same time

etc etc etc

:)

[Lucas]

Some punk came at me with a linoleum knife.

I crescent kicked it out of his hand.

my friend ambushed me with a wooden knife by bursting through a doorway as i was walking up to it, just for fun, its a thing we used to do. we liked to suprise attack each other out of the blue. but my auto response was a quick inside crescent and it actually worked. i kicked the back of his hand/wrist hard enough that he lost the knife. the up side to that is that with a crescent you arent having to turn your hips and you're essentially still squared. which was nice because he rushed me right after i kicked him and we went into a clinch. now i'm not saying this is what we should be doing, but this was reflex and it worked. maybe i got lucky, maybe my training paid off, maybe a bit of both.

so kind of like sanjuro mentioned. it was more of a WTF moment, that worked. it makes you feel good about your training, but you cant count on that to play out that way a second time.

[Bacon]

my friend ambushed me with a wooden knife by bursting through a doorway as i was walking up to it, just for fun, its a thing we used to do. we liked to suprise attack each other out of the blue. but my auto response was a quick inside crescent and it actually worked. i kicked the back of his hand/wrist hard enough that he lost the knife. the up side to that is that with a crescent you arent having to turn your hips and you're essentially still squared. which was nice because he rushed me right after i kicked him and we went into a clinch. now i'm not saying this is what we should be doing, but this was reflex and it worked. maybe i got lucky, maybe my training paid off, maybe a bit of both.

so kind of like sanjuro mentioned. it was more of a WTF moment, that worked. it makes you feel good about your training, but you cant count on that to play out that way a second time.

Especially if you don't have that element of surprise.

[YouKnowWho]

I did ask my longfist teacher about the application of the crescent kick when I was young. He said, "What if you are holding something in your arms such as your baby (you can't just throw it away) when you need to fight?"

[bawang]

I did ask my longfist teacher about the application of the crescent kick when I was young. He said, "What if you are holding something in your arms such as your baby (you can't just throw it away) when you need to fight?"

i would throw the baby at the enemy

[taai gihk yahn]

i would throw the baby at the enemy

you pass the test...

[sanjuro_ronin]

i would throw the baby at the enemy

Ladies and Gentlemen, the REAL Wing Chun !!
:D

[-N-]

i kicked the back of his hand/wrist hard enough that he lost the knife. the up side to that is that with a crescent you arent having to turn your hips and you're essentially still squared. which was nice because he rushed me right after i kicked him and we went into a clinch.

He had his right hand in front. I used right inside to outside crecent kick. A fast sharp flick rather than a power kick.

I was wearing leather shoes with hard soles. I hit his fingers(on purpose) with the hard edge of the shoe, and the knife flew into the middle of the street.

His fingers were stinging, and he just kind of stared at me while shaking his hand, and I walked away.