Moderated repost

[k gledhill]

http://www.wslstudents.org/



The WSLSA reserves the right to terminate the WSLSA membership of any sifu who is teaching Chi Kung or any other martial arts skills such as Iron Palm or the so called “Dim Mak”, as our Sifu Wong Shun Leung never believed in any of such skills. The reason for the foregoing, is that we do not want these other skills to be labeled as WSLVT, since it was never included in our Sifu’s teaching curriculum.

[MOSHE]

No shikong in ip man / Leung bik lineage
But there is one in mainland china lineage

Perhaps we don't have the same definition of this skill

[MOSHE]

What do you mean by conditioning the hands ?

[LoneTiger108]

http://www.wslstudents.org/

Good part !

The WSLSA reserves the right to terminate the WSLSA membership of any sifu who is teaching Chi Kung or any other martial arts skills such as Iron Palm or the so called “Dim Mak”, as our Sifu Wong Shun Leung never believed in any of such skills. The reason for the foregoing, is that we do not want these other skills to be labeled as WSLVT, since it was never included in our Sifu’s teaching curriculum.

I wasn't going to post here because of the WSL family issues, BUT I think it's a shame some narrow minded people seem to want to divide a single lineage up for their own selfish promotions and financial gain when ALL of Ip Mans students should be bound together as he wished.

[Yoshiyahu]

Whats the purpose of iron palm or iron fist skills.

What are u doing with hand conditioning...is it really giving you some exciting chi power than can give a deadly strike...or is simply making your fist harder and more conditioned so you can hit harder...

Also is Iron palm just the hands or palms...or is the iron palm conditioning the entire arm from the fingers to the elbow?

[GlennR]

So a question for Kevin.

When it all comes down to it, who says what is and what isn't WSL WC?

[JPinAZ]

Deciding what is/isn't WCK and who is/isn't doing it correctly. And kicking out anybody that they view isn't teaching WCK exactly like one man's prefered methods of fighting/teaching..
Sounds like they are trying to create a bunch of robots to me.

So, who appointed all these people? WSL himself?
I willing to bet not all WSL guys feel this same way. I'd be really interested to hear if guys like David Peterson agree that someone is 'not doing WSL' and should be booted from the lineage simply because they are suplimenting their training by conditioning thier hands/arms by striking bags filled with sand/gravel/iron shot or doing breathing excersizes...

[Sihing73]

Hello,

FWIW, I used to train Leung Ting Wing Tsun some years ago.
Part of the training was to also do Latosa Escrima.
I did not like that approach and opted to do Pekiti Tirsia myself.
Several of my seniors got on me about not doing things the same way as everyone else.
My reply was "Hmm, I can do what you guys do and you can kick my a**, or I can keep doing what I am doing and I can kick your a**". I think you may guess which way I went ;)

When I left WT I was told I could no longer Teach Wing Chun\Tsun. That somehow since I was no longer affiliated with them all of my previous training was worthless. While I could not teach under the WT banner, I still opted to teach, those interested, my approach to Wing Chun.

I am currently under Sifu Chung Kwok Chow but we do not do everything the same way. Does this make my ability any less or more relevant?

If you want the backing of an organization for somehow lend creditability to how you do something then sure stick with them and follow their rules. But in the end the only thing that should really matter is does your approach work for you.

I am currently teaching a couple of guys my approach to Wing Chun which is a hybrid of WT and WC along with Kuntao\Silat and Pekiti Tirisia. I do it this way cause I like the way it blends together for me and it seems to work very well for me. Do I really care if anyone else says I am not doing Wing Chun cause they do it differently? Not really. When I used to teach in Philly my door was always open to anyone who wanted to cross hands. Sometimes I even learned something from those who visited.

Not saying my way is the best or I am somehow super bad. Honestly could care less. I enjoy my way and am confident it works...........for me. No I do not have multiple fights in the gym, but I do have experience in Law Enforcement working at a Prison a Housing Police Officer and PA State Trooper. Though to be honest you really only need to get into confrontations if you are lacking in other skills. Most times you should have little need to fight.

[EternalSpring]

so from what i understand of it (which is probably very little), it seems that this isn't saying that those who teach other non-wsl ving tsun skills aren't also teaching WSL Ving Tsun, but rather that they're not part of "club" of WSL students, even though they may technically be a WSL student.

out of curiosity, i randomly referred a friend to this school (http://www.ngfamilymartialarts.com/home.htm) where they teach clf and ving tsun. would this qualify as something that would get the sifu kicked out of the WSLSA? It would suck if that is true because it seems that would make the WSLSA similar to some religions where any extra beliefs not mentioned by the founder are considered blasphemy and create grounds to expel the person who said such things.

[GlennR]

http://www.wslstudents.org/

Good part !

The WSLSA reserves the right to terminate the WSLSA membership of any sifu who is teaching Chi Kung or any other martial arts skills such as Iron Palm or the so called “Dim Mak”, as our Sifu Wong Shun Leung never believed in any of such skills. The reason for the foregoing, is that we do not want these other skills to be labeled as WSLVT, since it was never included in our Sifu’s teaching curriculum.

try it again without the name calling, :D

let me start by saying i wanted to hit a guy with a palm strike but was afraid and held back until I did weeks of Iron palm training. I also lacked the ability to deliver my death touch while breathing in my specialized way during my last fight ....:D:D Should I join a certified WSL school if I cant pursue this approach ?

While I'm at it, what is the wslsa and who are the senior members?

[wkmark]

so from what i understand of it (which is probably very little), it seems that this isn't saying that those who teach other non-wsl ving tsun skills aren't also teaching WSL Ving Tsun, but rather that they're not part of "club" of WSL students, even though they may technically be a WSL student.

out of curiosity, i randomly referred a friend to this school (http://www.ngfamilymartialarts.com/home.htm) where they teach clf and ving tsun. would this qualify as something that would get the sifu kicked out of the WSLSA? It would suck if that is true because it seems that would make the WSLSA similar to some religions where any extra beliefs not mentioned by the founder are considered blasphemy and create grounds to expel the person who said such things.

The school mentioned is recognized because both CLF and Ving Tsun are taught separately. I know the owner of the schools quite well and I have visited and trained with the ppl there. They do not mixed the two together. Meaning they don't teach CLF and call it VT or vice versa.

[Bacon]

In a way this makes sense. Iron palm is worthless compared to alternative training which does the same and if you label chi kung as anything other than breathing exercises I think you're starting to delve into mystical chi garbage.

That said I do not agree with only teaching the exact same curriculum as your sifu.

[EternalSpring]

The school mentioned is recognized because both CLF and Ving Tsun are taught separately. I know the owner of the schools quite well and I have visited and trained with the ppl there. They do not mixed the two together. Meaning they don't teach CLF and call it VT or vice versa.

Oh, that's not bad at all then. Because I have heard of people being strict on not even teaching other arts in addition to a certain style, but if this is the sort of thing where they're just trying to "protect their kung fu/curriculum" then it does make sense. In that sense, things like "iron palm" could be taught alongside WSLVT as long at it doesn't claim to be part of the curriculum, right?

[wkmark]

F'g sad - He deletes a previous thread because it didn't go his way, only to start it again. Sounds like someone has some serious 'control issues' to me (and some really thin skin for someone that claims 40+ fights):rolleyes:.

Funny, this 'control issue' sounds a bit similar to a group of lineage guys (self appointed?) deciding what is/isn't WCK and who is/isn't doing it correctly. And kicking out anybody that they view isn't teaching WCK exactly like one man's prefered methods of fighting/teaching..
Sounds like they are trying to create a bunch of robots to me.

So, who appointed all these people? WSL himself?
I willing to bet not all WSL guys feel this same way. I'd be really interested to hear if guys like David Peterson agree that someone is 'not doing WSL' and should be booted from the lineage simply because they are suplimenting their training by conditioning thier hands/arms by striking bags filled with sand/gravel/iron shot or doing breathing excersizes...

Just to clarify...if a person learns WSL VT and decided to add bjj or anything else, then that's fine. All the power to them. However if they are teaching students with these additional skills and grouping it all up by saying that's what I learned from wslvt, then it would be in issue since Sifu WSL never taught that.

There are certain skills that Sifu didn't believe in such as dim Mak "death touch" or chi Kung where your body is invincible by ways of swords and bullets..etc.

[wkmark]

Oh, that's not bad at all then. Because I have heard of people being strict on not even teaching other arts in addition to a certain style, but if this is the sort of thing where they're just trying to "protect their kung fu/curriculum" then it does make sense. In that sense, things like "iron palm" could be taught alongside WSLVT as long at it doesn't claim to be part of the curriculum, right?

That is correct. Sifu WSL never taught any of his students iron palm. There is no need to label iron palm as part of wslvt as we were never taught that.

[Sihing73]

There are certain skills that Sifu didn't believe in such as dim Mak "death touch" or chi Kung where your body is invincible by ways of swords and bullets..etc.

Hello,

So is it only specifc types of Chi Kung which are not allowed???

What about Jam Jong or other standing meditations or even moving Chi Kung??

[wkmark]

While I'm at it, what is the wslsa and who are the senior members?

Wslsa stands for Wong shun Leung student association.

[couch]

Per Groucho Marx (paraphrased): I refuse to join any organisation which would accept me as a member.

Mint. I agree (with you and Groucho).

[Sean66]

Well, I just read some posts on Kampfkunstboard and it seems that Philipp Bayer is no fan of this idea.

[k gledhill]

Well, I just read some posts on Kampfkunstboard and it seems that Philipp Bayer is no fan of this idea.

Yeah, the star system for chi-sao :confused: amongst other things.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Wing Chun, the red-headed step child of TCMA.
One wonders why...

[Frost]

Wing Chun, the red-headed step child of TCMA.
One wonders why...

hey it passes the time :)

personally i blame bruce lee that dude has a lot to answer for

[sanjuro_ronin]

hey it passes the time :)

personally i blame bruce lee that dude has a lot to answer for

He should be the last one to blame, JKD anyone ?

[Frost]

He should be the last one to blame, JKD anyone ?

dont even get me started on jkd!!!!:)

[sanjuro_ronin]

dont even get me started on jkd!!!!:)

JKD suffers from much the same as WC, the students NOT paying attention to the teachings left by the Master.

EX: In the WSL book, he mentions that he got reamed by fellow students because he beat a guy in a fight with a knee strike and that there were "no knees in WC".
He countered that he used the "closet weapon to the closest target in a straight line" ( I am paraphrasing).
In short he used a "non-WC" technique within the WC principles.
Funny that, eh?

[Vajramusti]

JKD suffers from much the same as WC, the students NOT paying attention to the teachings left by the Master.

EX: In the WSL book, he mentions that he got reamed by fellow students because he beat a guy in a fight with a knee strike and that there were "no knees in WC".
He countered that he used the "closet weapon to the closest target in a straight line" ( I am paraphrasing).
In short he used a "non-WC" technique within the WC principles.
Funny that, eh?---

----------------------------------------
Not funny, There are knees in wing chun. You see it in dummy work and in drills with knees.
It's easy to ridicule wing chun by cherry picking this or that example of wing chun.

[imperialtaichi]

Wing Chun, the red-headed step child of TCMA.
One wonders why...

Not all. Some are blondes.

[Yoshiyahu]

What dummy work...actually officially knee strikes are something done in the clinch...but WC mook yan jong doesn't have knee strikes...you may have drills that deal with the dummy an whole lot more...but the wooden man form has no knee.


In wing chun you can hit someone with any of your seven stars



---

----------------------------------------
Not funny, There are knees in wing chun. You see it in dummy work and in drills with knees.
It's easy to ridicule wing chun by cherry picking this or that example of wing chun.

[GlennR]

Wslsa stands for Wong shun Leung student association.

And the senior members?
I can't open the link

[GlennR]

http://www.wslstudents.org/

Good part !

The WSLSA reserves the right to terminate the WSLSA membership of any sifu who is teaching Chi Kung or any other martial arts skills such as Iron Palm or the so called “Dim Mak”, as our Sifu Wong Shun Leung never believed in any of such skills. The reason for the foregoing, is that we do not want these other skills to be labelled as WSLVT, since it was never included in our Sifu’s teaching curriculum.

okay I resorted to name calling in the last one :D lets try 3 times lucky. BTW this is being discussed in other forums with attention being on fees and who's running it. Not can I keep doing testicle retraction classes and slapping it with iron palm to test it.

Finally opened it.
What I find odd is that no ones names are mentioned.... Or did I miss something???

[wkmark]

Yeah, the star system for chi-sao :confused: amongst other things.

With regards to the "Star" system mentioned in the info page for WSLSA, MANY have misunderstood the meaning of that. For clarification purposes, WSLSA are NOT the ones to rate an organization/ school. It was initially a measuring stick for the school OWNER himself/herself to give an accessment of HIS own school so that when visitors go seek for training or for a week of training, the visitor will have an idea of what to expect. We realized that the language used was not clear enough thus resulting in ALOT of confusion, therefore we are in the process of eliminating that and changing it.

[wkmark]

Hello,

So is it only specifc types of Chi Kung which are not allowed???

What about Jam Jong or other standing meditations or even moving Chi Kung??

I am not familiar with what you are talking about, so I cannot comment. sorry.

[wkmark]

Well, I just read some posts on Kampfkunstboard and it seems that Philipp Bayer is no fan of this idea.

We have personally sent and email to Sihing Philipp Bayer in regards to his concerns.

[wkmark]

Finally opened it.
What I find odd is that no ones names are mentioned.... Or did I miss something???

The website mentioned has NOT been updated. We have only announced this association last weekend at the WSL gathering in Malaysia hosted by David Peterson and John Smith.

Schools that have shown their support are on the facebook page of WSLSA under NOTES. We will update it onto the WSLSA website as well, but that takes more time then the facebook page.

As for Senior members who have shown support are as follows in NO particular order:

Gary Lam, Wan Kam leung, Chiu Hok Yin, Chan Kim Man, Tommy Yeung (Tommy's son), Chiu Hok Yin (Dai Haap),Lam Kam Keung, David Peterson, John Smith. All others are currently in the works.

Again note that not all the relative school names have been updated. Thus please take notice of the facebook page for details and announcements.

I am not sure if it is against the rule to post up the facebook link page. So if anyone needs it, please message me separately.

[GlennR]

We have personally sent and email to Sihing Philipp Bayer in regards to his concerns.

So you represent the wslsa ????

[wkmark]

So you represent the wslsa ????

John Wong (Sifu Wong Shun Leung's Son), Jerry Yeung and I founded the WSLSA.

[anerlich]

Just to clarify...if a person learns WSL VT and decided to add bjj or anything else, then that's fine. All the power to them. However if they are teaching students with these additional skills and grouping it all up by saying that's what I learned from wslvt, then it would be in issue since Sifu WSL never taught that.

There are certain skills that Sifu didn't believe in such as dim Mak "death touch" or chi Kung where your body is invincible by ways of swords and bullets..etc.

With respect, the part Kevin quoted implies that people can be thrown out for teaching Qigong and Dim Mak, even if they say their teachings of those arts are not part of WSLVT.

It sounds like Kev got a hold of your website while it was under construction and ran gleefully off with the parts that pushed his buttons, while you guys are still in the process of working out what you are trying to do.

Might be an idea to keep everything to yourselves a bit more until you have a better idea of what you want this org ot be and stand for.

I'm sceptical about Qigong and Dim Mak myself, but IMO teaching them on the side and making them separate from WC is OK. To do otherwise is arguably a restraint of trade, and you may lose good people (like Mr Bayer) if you push such a line too hard.

Sean in the other clip posted by Kev has another clip in the sidebar about Xingyi ... which the way I learned it sails pretty close to qigong, IMA etc. Without wanting to drag him into this, you can hopefully see how such a hard and fast rule might cause you some problems.