Razor in the mouth

[Phil Redmond]

Let's say you're in NYC and two guys are about to fight. One of them yells out the number "15" or "20", etc. That guy is telling the other guy how many stitches he's going to get after he slices him across the eyebrow, the ligaments on the inside of his wrist, or wherever :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLFquT2jTQ&lc=niEKZCq7lTseKn9QAobZ4PSZsJRQdr6F2DZfBYyUUXs&feature=inbox

[imperialtaichi]

Let's say you're in NYC and two guys are about to fight. One of them yells out the number "15" or "20", etc. That guy is telling the other guy how many stitches he's going to get after he slices him across the eyebrow, the ligaments on the inside of his wrist, or wherever :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLFquT2jTQ&lc=niEKZCq7lTseKn9QAobZ4PSZsJRQdr6F2DZfBYyUUXs&feature=inbox

This is one of my fav clip on the net.

The razor blade is a great stealth weapon, because the person being cut may not even know it until after the fight, when blood is pouring everywhere. And for this same reason, it is not a self defense weapon of choice, as a self defense weapon would work better if it also creates fear in the opponent.

After saying that, if I do see someone holding a razor, I'll run. :)

[trubblman]

Wing Chun related? Isnt there a forum for street fighting? IJS

[desertwingchun2]

Whats funny to me is some people think getting into it with guys like that would be easy.

[Wayfaring]

Let's say you're in NYC and two guys are about to fight. One of them yells out the number "15" or "20", etc. That guy is telling the other guy how many stitches he's going to get after he slices him across the eyebrow, the ligaments on the inside of his wrist, or wherever :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLFquT2jTQ&lc=niEKZCq7lTseKn9QAobZ4PSZsJRQdr6F2DZfBYyUUXs&feature=inbox

Yeah, like 52 stuff. I think that style is most applicable in prison, where you may have a shank or blade but nothing else, and in over-populated over-regulated areas where carrying a gun is problematic. Some of the cutting movements he's doing are real wide - plenty of time to get hit in the face with something. But definitely a real additional threat. I do think some of the fancy toss hand exchanges might be harder to pull off while being punched in the face, and if he drops the blade hollywooding then he deserves the beating and more.

It does highlight the danger of training a lot of open hand and then thinking you are some kind of a b@d@$$.

But I mean if I'm fully geared up and someone yells out "15" or "20" I can yell out "bear repellent" and go for the 15 ft. stream of pepper spray. Then if they still have a high level of motivation after that I can yell out "45" and see if my Colt Commander can lower their level of motivation appropriately.

But yeah, interesting clip and something to be aware of for sure.

[Sihing73]

Phil,

I did not know that Marines could count past 10 :eek:

[jesper]

Phil,

I did not know that Marines could count past 10 :eek:

A marine never walks alone :D

[Sihing73]

A marine never walks alone :D

That's cause they need each other to find their way.

An Army Ranger leads the way and everyone one else follows

I was going to be a Marine but I passed the IQ test :D

[Buddha_Fist]

Dunno... sure sounds like an awesome thing... A few thoughts though:

- Razor blades are quite thin. You have to grab them very close to the edge so they don't break. Problem with this is that penetration is greatly reduced.

- Given the lack of penetration you need to be very precise to slash the few areas where the blade will do real damage (maybe eyes, neck). Problem though is that in a fight things are chaotic. You cannot predict what the other guy's gonna do (unless he sucks), and viceversa. Slashing with such a precision is gonna be tough.

- While you're waiting for the right opportunity focused on causing damage by slashing the opponent's skin surface on specific spots, he's focused on knocking you out asap. You probably have just a few seconds before you're out.

Will probably need to combine with good old boxing... Dunno...

[Phil Redmond]

Wing Chun related? Isnt there a forum for street fighting? IJS
Yes, it's Wing Chun related. Wing Chun people need to know what's out there.

[Phil Redmond]

Phil,

I did not know that Marines could count past 10 :eek:
Ain't Ready for Marines Yet.

[Sihing73]

Ain't Ready for Marines Yet.

Phil,

First, I am glad those remedial reading and writing classes are working out for you. Who knows, soon you may be reading at a 8th grade level. I know that is a bit much to ask of a Marine, but I have confidence that you can do it. ;)

Tell me this, why do the Marines go through Army Jump School??

As to the idea of fighting with a razor, when younger I used to carry a straight razor.

If you want to talk about improvised weapons: Another very good one which is not as prevalent today is the common car antenna. In a pinch you could snatch one from a car and it could be as deadly as a switchblade. Problem today is it is hard to find a car with an external antenna :(

Not so sure I would carry a razor in my mouth, although I have heard it was sometimes used by courtesans and other "working girls".

This is for Phil and the other poor souls who made the error of becoming a Marine:

One Day, A General In The Air Force, General In The Marine Corps, And A Admiral In The Navy Were Fishing. They Were Going Along Having A Good Time With Their Rods And Two Ice Chest Of Beer. Finally, The Admiral Stood Up And Said "the Cno Says I Need To ****." So He Stood Up Stepped Out Of The Boat And Walked On Water To The Shore. He ****ed And Walked Back. A Couple Minutes Later, The Air Force General Said That The Chief Of The Air Force Told Him To Go Take A ****. He Stood Up, Stepped Out Of The Boat, Walked To Shore On The Water. He Relieved Himself And Walked Back. Now, The General In The Marines Corps Was Amazed. "surly If These Two *******s Can Walk On Water, I Can Too." So He Stood Up, Put His Foot Outside Of The Boat And Fell Right Into The Water. The Air Force General Looked At The Admiral. The Admiral Said, "i Think We Need To Tell Him Were The Rocks Are Next Time."

[jesper]

anyways speaking of concealed weapons i sometimes bring my cane with me for a walk just for fun.

Its a very old one with a sword inside which I got from my granddad. very cool stuff :)

[imperialtaichi]

Dunno... sure sounds like an awesome thing... A few thoughts though:

- Razor blades are quite thin. You have to grab them very close to the edge so they don't break. Problem with this is that penetration is greatly reduced.

- Given the lack of penetration you need to be very precise to slash the few areas where the blade will do real damage (maybe eyes, neck). Problem though is that in a fight things are chaotic. You cannot predict what the other guy's gonna do (unless he sucks), and viceversa. Slashing with such a precision is gonna be tough.

- While you're waiting for the right opportunity focused on causing damage by slashing the opponent's skin surface on specific spots, he's focused on knocking you out asap. You probably have just a few seconds before you're out.

Will probably need to combine with good old boxing... Dunno...
Yep, totally agree. A stealthy weapon, non fatal, can cause some nasty damage, not great for self defense. Still not a bad improvised weapon.

[k gledhill]

Stanley Knives ( razor blade ) are common in London. A nasty extra would be two razors taped together so the cut couldn't be stiched normally, leaving a wide ' Mars bar ' ( slang for scar) on your face. The razors would be hidden in sandwiches, burgers...to avoid pre soccer match searches by police. UK is knife crazy..no guns. Hooligans will razor edge coins and use them like a razor, or like a shuriken, throw them at opposition fans/players.

[trubblman]

Yes, it's Wing Chun related. Wing Chun people need to know what's out there.

Yep thats why there's a street fighting forum... available for those interested in that stuff.

[Sihing73]

Yep thats why there's a street fighting forum... available for those interested in that stuff.

Hello,

Well, if we want to run everything tight and fast there are several threads which would need to be moved from this forum to others.

As I have said before this is your forum not mine. I will be happy to move ALL of the threads which do not directly relate to Wing Chun if that is what everyone or the majority of those here want me to do.

Let me know.

[couch]

Hello,

Well, if we want to run everything tight and fast there are several threads which would need to be moved from this forum to others.

As I have said before this is your forum not mine. I will be happy to move ALL of the threads which do not directly relate to Wing Chun if that is what everyone or the majority of those here want me to do.

Let me know.

I vote for leaving it and thank Phil for posting it.

[EternalSpring]

Of course this is Ving Tsun related, a tiny razor in each hand is like the Baat Jum Dao of the streets!

[YouKnowWho]

Hello,

Well, if we want to run everything tight and fast there are several threads which would need to be moved from this forum to others.

As I have said before this is your forum not mine. I will be happy to move ALL of the threads which do not directly relate to Wing Chun if that is what everyone or the majority of those here want me to do.

Let me know.

I vote for moving it. Unless people want to turn this forum into WC only forum. I'm one don't like to see that happen.

It's pretty sad to see the only subject discussed under the Kung Fu forum today is "Question for any former Karateka here (or current)".

[wingchunIan]

Stanley Knives ( razor blade ) are common in London. A nasty extra would be two razors taped together so the cut couldn't be stiched normally, leaving a wide ' Mars bar ' ( slang for scar) on your face. The razors would be hidden in sandwiches, burgers...to avoid pre soccer match searches by police. UK is knife crazy..no guns. Hooligans will razor edge coins and use them like a razor, or like a shuriken, throw them at opposition fans/players.

Not just London mate. Stanley blades as weapons have been common place across the UK since the heyday of football violence in the seventies and eighties and would be found amongst all the firms (although Liverpool had a particular reputation and the aptly named stanley park was infamous).
Razor blades cause nasty injuries (anyone interested should google chelsea grin, glasgow smile etc to see what stanley blades can do) but are not really dangerous per se when compared to other weapons. The range is short and the penetration very limited. The humble screwdriver is much more dangerous IMHO as is the standard kitchen carving knife, crow bar, lump hammer etc. I've had to get up close and personal with a folks carrying stanleys on loads of occassions and used to know several folks with the scars they leave and in the range of weapons to have to face they are the least worrying to me (short of the guy attacking with a piece of fruit ala monty python).
Thankfully football violence is a much more low key affair today than is was when I was younger (although it still happens up and down the country) and the stadiums etc are fairly safe now.

[Sardinkahnikov]

****, what a bunch of bloodthristy d1cks. Not only they are dumb enough to pick fight with strangers - as long as they are surrounded by their buddies, no doubt - but they slash people with razors...and for what? To leave scars, make them get stitches, or worse?

That said, in a fight for my life, I'd probably preffer to have a blunt weapon, like a baton or something, rather than a razor. No matter how high on adrelinaline or drugs, if you strike the head hard enough, bam the villain goes out. And I bet I'll make you look better in front of the judge, too.

[k gledhill]

Not just London mate. Stanley blades as weapons have been common place across the UK since the heyday of football violence in the seventies and eighties and would be found amongst all the firms (although Liverpool had a particular reputation and the aptly named stanley park was infamous).
Razor blades cause nasty injuries (anyone interested should google chelsea grin, glasgow smile etc to see what stanley blades can do) but are not really dangerous per se when compared to other weapons. The range is short and the penetration very limited. The humble screwdriver is much more dangerous IMHO as is the standard kitchen carving knife, crow bar, lump hammer etc. I've had to get up close and personal with a folks carrying stanleys on loads of occassions and used to know several folks with the scars they leave and in the range of weapons to have to face they are the least worrying to me (short of the guy attacking with a piece of fruit ala monty python).
Thankfully football violence is a much more low key affair today than is was when I was younger (although it still happens up and down the country) and the stadiums etc are fairly safe now.

True, I lived in London... Glaswegians interviewed in prison talked about specific ways they would use vertical slashes in fights to avoid arteries, way to informed.
I have scars from crow bars too...but that was in NYC.

[Phil Redmond]

Yep thats why there's a street fighting forum... available for those interested in that stuff.
You see, that's one of the problems with many WC people. They only train against WC punches, other WC people and are oblivious to what's out there in the real world. Forget my post. Don't think about the possibility of you having to use your "Wing Chun" against someone outside of your school/lineage and you'll be just fine. :rolleyes:

[Phil Redmond]

Wing Chun related? Isnt there a forum for street fighting? IJS
Ok, how would you use your "Wing Chun" against a guy slashing at you with razors?

[Phil Redmond]

Hello,

Well, if we want to run everything tight and fast there are several threads which would need to be moved from this forum to others.

As I have said before this is your forum not mine. I will be happy to move ALL of the threads which do not directly relate to Wing Chun if that is what everyone or the majority of those here want me to do.

Let me know.
I visit here less because of the lack of reality. Hmm, if I post some really good self defense stuff here the Wing Chun guys won't see it......:D

[Lucas]

razor in the mouth sounds pretty pre meditated. if you walk around with a razor in your mouth all day, you'll need to keep your teeth clenched on them in order to prevent cutting up your tongue, gums, cheeks. so that means that you have to put the razor in your mouth prior to needing it in your mouth....so you must have some fore warned knowledge that you will be needing a razor in your mouth to spit out. Maybe if you are just thugging on a corner all day and not talking or eating or drinking you could pull that off. otherwise its a pretty good sign of a total d bag to walk around pre meditating cutting people up with a razor blade by setting people up purposfully. be a man and have an honest knife fight or own up to being a weakling and needing to trick people into fighting you bare handed while you use a razor blade.

[Phil Redmond]

razor in the mouth sounds pretty pre meditated. if you walk around with a razor in your mouth all day, you'll need to keep your teeth clenched on them in order to prevent cutting up your tongue, gums, cheeks. so that means that you have to put the razor in your mouth prior to needing it in your mouth....so you must have some fore warned knowledge that you will be needing a razor in your mouth to spit out. Maybe if you are just thugging on a corner all day and not talking or eating or drinking you could pull that off. otherwise its a pretty good sign of a total d bag to walk around pre meditating cutting people up with a razor blade by setting people up purposfully. be a man and have an honest knife fight or own up to being a weakling and needing to trick people into fighting you bare handed while you use a razor blade.
I know the guy in the video. He can have a conversation with you while having two razors in his mouth. In the video he's talking with on blade in his mouth. I've seen it many time. The practice came from guys in jail who couldn't have a proper knife. And they can eat, drink, and talk with the razor in their mouths.

[Phil Redmond]

There's a beef going on between two different 52 Blocks factions. The other faction is dissing Giants people in the clip. But notice in this clip that Giant has 3 blades in his mouth while he's talking around 1:20 in the link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EQAY4X_Yt3g
It's very prevalent in NY. I was just trying to give NY people a heads up that's all.
I'm in South Bay California now and will probably never have to worry about it.
I might get hit with a surfboard though. :D

[Bacon]

Ok, how would you use your "Wing Chun" against a guy slashing at you with razors?

By picking up a chair or anything with reach. And then people go "well what if there's nothing around," but I always have stuff in my pockets I can use for distraction, or I have a blade of my own, or something which can be used as a weapon. The only way I'd have to use direct hand to hand is if you stripped me naked.

Where I grew up half the highschool kids walked around with a knife in their pocket. If someone picked a fight I always assumed they had a blade and picked up anything with reach. Mind you I always had a trick or three up my sleeve.

I assume everyone has a weapon and friends anyway because it's a lot safer that way. You see I have this friend Murphy....

[Syn7]

notice in this clip that Giant has 3 blades in his mouth while he's talking

If he already had 3 in his mouth, then why did he have to load up another in order to draw?

Why not just show one that was already there and draw?

[Syn7]

Stanley Knives ( razor blade ) are common in London. A nasty extra would be two razors taped together so the cut couldn't be stiched normally, leaving a wide ' Mars bar ' ( slang for scar) on your face. The razors would be hidden in sandwiches, burgers...to avoid pre soccer match searches by police. UK is knife crazy..no guns. Hooligans will razor edge coins and use them like a razor, or like a shuriken, throw them at opposition fans/players.


If you unscrew the handle off two machetes and put both blades in one handle you get a similar nastiness. very ugly damage.

[Lucas]

I know the guy in the video. He can have a conversation with you while having two razors in his mouth. In the video he's talking with on blade in his mouth. I've seen it many time. The practice came from guys in jail who couldn't have a proper knife. And they can eat, drink, and talk with the razor in their mouths.

thats freaking crazy!!!!

[trubblman]

Ok, how would you use your "Wing Chun" against a guy slashing at you with razors?

I for one never said I would use my VT against a razor wielding person. However knowing a little something something in addition to VT I would probably pull my blade and try and slash those hands flying around me. Of course that would be an extreme survival of last resort situation where it is impossible to run. Fortunately I live in a state that allows me to carry non switchblade knives.

[Phil Redmond]

If he already had 3 in his mouth, then why did he have to load up another in order to draw?

Why not just show one that was already there and draw?
So are you saying that he didn't have 3 in his mouth? If you've lived in the "hood" and know people who were in Rikers Island or any other prison you wouldn't have to ask that question.
But I'll answer. He did it to show that he could have multiple razors in his mouth. It's like a gun enthusiast showing off his weapons.

[YouKnowWho]

The spikers ring is much better than the razor in the mouth. When you twist your spikers inside and hide in your palm. It will look just like a normal harmless ring. When you slide a 20 inch long cut along your opponent's body, the amount of blood will stop his aggressive attack.

http://imageshack.us/a/img21/1913/spikesring.jpg

[Faruq]

There's a beef going on between two different 52 Blocks factions. The other faction is dissing Giants people in the clip. But notice in this clip that Giant has 3 blades in his mouth while he's talking around 1:20 in the link below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTQbiELBfRw&playnext=1&list=PLAC00523CAD2D505A&feature=results_video
It's very prevalent in NY. I was just trying to give NY people a heads up that's all.
I'm in South Bay California now and will probably never have to worry about it.
I might get hit with a surfboard though. :D

Wow, are you saying there are now gangs based on 52blocks, lol? That's wild! They seem to be having the same problem us TCMA people are having in that they all look like they're kickboxing when they fight (well actually we do the kickboxing, they just look like they're streetfighting, and you could never tell what style they trained from watching their fights - I wonder if it was like that in Canton back in the 1800s too?). Loved Mr 52's "dance of death" and how all those guys were running from him when he did it, lol. I didn't understand why or exactly what was going on, but it was entertaining.

[Phil Redmond]

Wow, are you saying there are now gangs based on 52blocks, lol? That's wild! They seem to be having the same problem us TCMA people are having in that they all look like they're kickboxing when they fight (well actually we do the kickboxing, they just look like they're streetfighting, and you could never tell what style they trained from watching their fights - I wonder if it was like that in Canton back in the 1800s too?). Loved Mr 52's "dance of death" and how all those guys were running from him when he did it, lol. I didn't understand why or exactly what was going on, but it was entertaining.
Sadly, they are having the same issues as TCMA and other TMA.

[Syn7]

So are you saying that he didn't have 3 in his mouth? If you've lived in the "hood" and know people who were in Rikers Island or any other prison you wouldn't have to ask that question.
But I'll answer. He did it to show that he could have multiple razors in his mouth. It's like a gun enthusiast showing off his weapons.

No, that isn't what I said. READ THE WORDS and take them for what they are, nothing more. Don't add words, don't subtract words. I said what I meant and I meant what I said.

That being said, I have no doubt about whether he can put three blades in his mouth. It's not new, people have been doing that for hundreds of years. Back in the 80's cats around my area would tape a blade to the underside of their lapels too. I'm sure that happened everywhere.


I'm just sayin, if he already had multiple blades, why show another to prove he can run multiple blades? It wasn't a challenge, just a thought.

I dunno bout Rikers, but I did 3 years in BC and blades were pretty common there too. I imagine most prisons are like that. I've seen people hold more than three. Not always from the mouth either. There are tons of great places for a small blade.


Who has multiple guns on them and then pulls one off the table to show how fast they can draw? Unless the point is to draw off the table, that is. But that's something else. Competitive shooters sometimes draw off tables, especially when doing a circuit.

[Syn7]

thats freaking crazy!!!!

It's not as crazy as it seems. Just holding while talking isn't that tough. Try it, you may get cut, but you'll learn fast ;) Rolling it around your tongue is a lil more involved. I've seen people take shots to the mouth and still not get cut. Spitting it out is simple, catching it is what takes the practice. At least for me anyways. I don't keep razors in my mouth, I just tried it a few times. You do dumb sh1t to stay entertained when you're locked up. Mostly we just launched torpedos.

Try it. It's just a razor. Practice with a dull one if you're scared of getting cut.

[Faruq]

Yeah, cuz what if you accidentally swallow it? You're in big trouble then. I saw a morbid documentary called "Oso Blanco" and they didn't even mention razor blades. But with all the dismemberment those guys were doing, little razor blades were probably the last thing on their minds, lol....

[Neeros]

This really shows the importance of the TCMA philosophy of never letting yourself get hit, even once, versus modern combat sports philosophy where trading blows is the norm.

[Faruq]

Sadly, they are having the same issues as TCMA and other TMA.

Phil, what exactly was he doing when they were flashing "dance of death" across the screen? It really didn't look any more dangerous than what they had already been doing. I mean why did everyone start running from Mr 52 at that point? I mean Mr 52 was doing pretty good against the big guy before that, but the big guy definitely seemed to be controlling the show. Why would he and like 5 other guys now all of a sudden start running? I don't get it...

Update: A friend recently told me the 5 percenters are the gate keepers of the knowledge mostly there now. He directed me to these videos where some of the old timers discuss the old times in the art: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTQbiELBfRw&playnext=1&list=PLAC00523CAD2D505A&feature=results_video

[Lucas]

Mostly we just launched torpedos.



do i even want to ask?

[Syn7]

do i even want to ask?

lol, it's convincing one idiot to attack another idiot for entertainment purposes. Some people really are that dumb and insecure.

"Yo, come here. Yeah, you! You hear what that cat was saying about you....?"

Then they roll around for a bit then head off to seg for a cooldown and formal beating from the lovely staff. :rolleyes:

[Syn7]

Phil, what exactly was he doing when they were flashing "dance of death" across the screen? It really didn't look any more dangerous than what they had already been doing. I mean why did everyone start running from Mr 52 at that point? I mean Mr 52 was doing pretty good against the big guy before that, but the big guy definitely seemed to be controlling the show. Why would he and like 5 other guys now all of a sudden start running? I don't get it...

Psychological! They fear the unknown and had no idea what to think of what he was doing. Most people back off when some cat gets weird. My best guess.

You can use peoples beliefs against them. In this case I am assuming they believed what he was doing was dangerous. Whether it was or was not is besides the point.

[Syn7]

This really shows the importance of the TCMA philosophy of never letting yourself get hit, even once, versus modern combat sports philosophy where trading blows is the norm.

Weapons change everything. On the street, weapons should be assumed. If you are in a room with one guy and you know he has no weapons, go mma on em all you want. On the street, the last thing you wanna do is shoot for a leg. Staying upright, loose and having escape routes is essential. When you lose any of those you need to improvise, of course. But if you can, keep all those doors open for as long as possible. That's pretty much basic street knowledge.

People need to understand the difference between a schoolyard fight and a real dangerous confrontation. Alot of guys who do well in the schoolyard get cut or shot for their assumptions.

Judging by the videos, it's only a matter of time before some 52 cat gets clipped. That ofcourse opens a nasty can of worms. Maybe it's already happened.

[Neeros]

Weapons change everything. On the street, weapons should be assumed. If you are in a room with one guy and you know he has no weapons, go mma on em all you want. On the street, the last thing you wanna do is shoot for a leg. Staying upright, loose and having escape routes is essential. When you lose any of those you need to improvise, of course. But if you can, keep all those doors open for as long as possible. That's pretty much basic street knowledge.

People need to understand the difference between a schoolyard fight and a real dangerous confrontation. Alot of guys who do well in the schoolyard get cut or shot for their assumptions.

Judging by the videos, it's only a matter of time before some 52 cat gets clipped. That ofcourse opens a nasty can of worms. Maybe it's already happened.

Wise words, totally agreed.